49th Parallel

Hey, cool team, I believe I've encountered this team once or twice on the ladder and definitely struggled against it (iirc I went 1-1 against it, but my memories pretty foggy tbh). Anywho, small nitpicks tbh, but I'd give them consideration nonetheless. Opposing rain semi-stall (standard bw1 rain-esque build of ogre / Ferro / tenta / ghost / scarfmon / choice) looks to be a little problematic, since your team baits a handful of Spikes users to come in, grab a quick layer, and get out, and your reliance on choiced 'mons gets really hindered by hazard-stacking. Opposing CM Ghostceus also look pretty threatening, and while your team doesn't as readily invite it to come in and set up as often as Spikes users it does really pressure either risking a Speed tie with your own Ghostceus or simply sacking a 'mon to get in the necessary damage to RK succesfully. Anywho, the first change I'd suggest would be to run Fire Punch over HP Fire on Deoxys-S (obviously running a jolly nature and transferring SpA EVs to Atk). Losing the Speed tie to opposing DeoS is pretty bad, and while Magic Coat is all well and good for "surprise value" in beating them, it is far from consistent. This change also allows DeoS to hit Gene slightly harder and prevent Lead Forretress from getting knocked down to custap range while still 2hkoing, forgoing what otherwise would be an uncomfortable match-up. I'd also tinker with Life Orb Kabutops over Kingdra. 'Tops offers your team a spinner capable of preserving offensive momentum, which greatly alleviates your "hazards weakness" and enables your U-Turners to play more liberally. The loss in quad-water resist is pretty insignificant IMO when considering opposing choiced ogres are being stifled by entry hazards. Standard faire spread with a moveset of rapid spin / stone edge / waterfall / low kick would work pretty well. Lastly, I'd definitely re-consider the use of SpDef 'Rachi over Scarf, the added bulk and the Wish support it provides are pretty critical in your match-up with opposing CM Arceus formes and balanced rain, respectively. However, I would definitely consider running Toxic > Body Slam if this change were to be made, as otherwise it would just become set-up bait for the CM Arceus and such it is meant to check. This in no way detracts from its ability to check Lati@s, and te inability to "cripple" Steel-types is fairly trivial in the grand scheme of things (I used quotes because, aside from Gene and sorta Arceus-Steel, very few steels really mind para). Momentum isn't a huge issue with U-turn, and the utility of Trick is a decent trade-off for more overall versatility imo. Sorry if any of my thoughts sorta trail off or don't seem to make sense, doing this from my phone :/ Either way, nice team, hope my suggestions were of use. Edit: just noticed this is pretty old lol. Welp, whatever, it got bumped, the mobile doesn't display time stamps clearly, and I commented anyway :<

Oh, hey, neat team. Apparently you're Emvee (I lurk too much ;-; ), so hi :> Anywho, Rain is blah, but I'm basically a hypocrite for saying that so I'll sorta rate anywayz (on a phone, so pardon any fragmented thoughts). I'd have to say that [specs] Torn-T is probably more useful than incarnate in the context of this team, you're currently offering techniloom 3 opportunities to set up and torn-t is much more likely to be healthy enough to check it due to regen+better overall bulk (also valuable v.RP Lando !_!). Torn-T also scouts much more comfortably, which might just be personal prefernce but imo is significantly more useful than the added oomph to attacks. Standard faire Hurricane / U-Turn / Sleep Talk / FBlast would do fine, though dropping the final slot altogether for better sleep talk pulls is cooler imo. Honestly, I find your current 'rachi to be somewhat ineffectual, considering the necessity for both para and wish support is rather low. I understand the need to have a 'mon to fallback on hurricanes, but the pressure your team applies isn't really offering many free switches anyway. I'd tinker with SubCM, helps your match-up with stall, because as mentioned you need to do some serious acrobatics to maneuver around moderately common defensive cores. It also grants a means of consistently eliminating Ferrothorn (seriously, what is your game plan for it, hope it just stays in on Scalds / Hurricnes for no good reason x_x ). Splashing Rapid Spin on 'Tops would help a ton with spike-stacking teams, which is chill since a bunch of your 'mons innately draw in common Spikers (Ferro for instance spikes up on most of your team, Skarm gets to Chomper, etc.). I'd probably toss it in over Aqua Jet, tbh the only use I see for it against RP Terrakion+Lando (who doesn't realistically set up on any of your 'mons after the 'rachi change) and I guess post-weather war loss, but with a more meticulous mid-game that should be a non-issue. Anywho, take what you will of that, teams been proven to be solid already so I can't say much. Cool sprites too, my personal go-to ones tbh

Hey, cool team n_n As a fan of heavy offense myself I can say this is a pretty solid team, and I like the use of Gastrodon (I prefer LO over Lefties myself, but that's just personal preference I suppose). In fact, I think I played it some time recently, I was either under the alt 49 or weak user, can't recall. Can't say I agree with "TWave and hope for para" in common lead match-ups, but I'm the kinda guy that will get crit flinched by 3 Rock Slides in a row or something along those lines, so I tend to be excessively careful at times Anywho, getting on to the meat of the matter, I notice that the majority, if not entirety of threats you list are either checked or countered by Offensive Latias. Despite the common [mis]conception that Latias is a defensively inclined Pokemon, its good natural bulk and still respectable offensive stats make it a very capable offensive pivot. This change would not only offer a suitable check to Breloom and RP Landorus, but also relieves pressure from Gastrodon to handle rain-boosted attacks and reinforces your match-up against sun teams. This would also provide a check to Keldeo, which you don't mention but looks to be a pretty huge threat since neither Chandelure nor Excadrill can RK a healthy Keldeo after a CM (meaning one has to be sacced such that the other beats it), and if one or both are down Lefties variants just outspeed and steamroll your team (though from what I've seen I'm the only one running it '~'). I would likely run this in place of Garchomp, as both fulfill similar roles in the grand scheme of things (wearing down the opposing team for Exca to clean late-game), though Latias isn't nearly as "luck-based". For reference, the set would be 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe (Timid) with Life Orb and a moveset of Draco Meteor / Psyshock / Surf / Roost. Anywho, I could probably offer some quick-fix solutions like Chople Berry Ttar with a heftier bulk investment+IBeam for a last-ditch Reuniclus / Lando-I check, though in the end they only really establish larger holes in the team, so it would do more harm than good. Personally I've never found HP Ice or Energy Ball to be of much use of Scarf Chandy (usually I'm running Trick, Curse, Sleep Talk, or something else along those lines), but to each his own I suppose. Anywho, cool team as mentioned, kinda "standard crap" as one might call it, but it works and works well, so no complaints. Edit: Just noticed a similar suggestion was made, whoops haha. Regardless, Istand by my suggestion, the lack of immediate offensive presence and survivability from CM Latias respectively really boggarts down on offensive momentum.

Hiya, so I noticed this RMT, and that fact that I didn't comment on it, so I decided to fix that real quick. Obviously this team is good, basically the balanced sand team imo, with variations spawning from personal preferences (things like SR Chople TTar+Toxic 'Tran, etc. etc.). That being said, I'd like to throw out a change that I feel might ease some issues with the team, and that's replacing Celebi with a Bulky LO Latias. It's typing is rather analogous to Celebi's in many respects, meaning it still fits rather snuggly into your team, though it's greater Speed and special bulk allow it more respectably take on Terrakion and Landorus (fears U-Turn less too) and can sponge a hit from 'Zam and (Non-LO) Gengar in a pinch, while retaining respectable offensive presence w/LO. It also puts less strain on Heatran to "check" Sun teams, which is nice for match-ups with GeneSun and such. It makes navigating bulky waters a bit more of a hassle, since you no longer have the consistency of Natural Cure to fall back on, and unlike Celebi it isn't a concreted win-con in a scenario where you're given free turns to set-up, but as I said, the suggestion's rather give and take Anywho, for refence, here's my proposed set: So yeah, 'dis team is gud.

Wow, my internet connection is not my friend, sorry for taking forever in responding to stuff guys :[ @Skywayz: No problem man, I'd definitely agree Double SS is a paramount of this metagame (in fact, this team's concept was primarily a test of SS+Drizzle as a whole), and to be honest my reply shouldn't have been as hostile as it was, so I hope you can forgive me for that For some reason the whole time I was addressing your rate I was thinking of Ludi as a Base 75 Speed 'mon (don't ask why, I have no clue why), which is why I didn't think of Gene haha. That being said, I do like Timid, and it's definitely something I'll work with, though trading off the extra damage output v.stuff like Ferro and SpDef Celebi is a little annoying :[ I'll definitely try to get on the server sometime (internet/scholastic/awkward social life willing ), maybe even not use some weird alt .-. But yeahhhh, thanks for the input =) @Roo: Thanks man, I'm glad that you like it @Rupe: Hey man, thanks for the rate! I'm not gonna lie, I'm not a big a fan of Encore as whole, which I guess shows here Anywho, while I understand your reasoning behind Encore, Dragon Dancing Dragons (assuming you refer to Haxorus, DNite, and 'Mence) are all taking a hefty chunk from Ice Beam, either being flat OHKOed or 2HKOed, forcing them to attack or die off. That being said, as long as Kingdra is maintained, I can always just IBeam in those scenarios, sacccing 'Toed and RK'ing with Kingdra in a worst-case scenario. I also had used Rain Dance on both Ludicolo and Kingdra at a certain point in the team's history, and my rational behind dropping has been that I really haven't had much trouble winning weather wars lol. Almost every non-Politoed weather initiator is threatened by a 2HKO or better by every one of my sweepers, with the exceptions of Ludicolo v.Abomasnow and Terrakion v.Hippowdon, and coupled with the pressure entry hazards provide usually other weather teams have to play rather conservatively with their initiators to work around this and that. I'll definitely be testing Superpower on Deoxys-S and re-testing Terrak though, I do agree both are pretty chill options. @Slant: I should've probably better elaborated on the whole Chandy weather war bit For the most part, weather wars are a secondary function of Chandelure, with the primary being eliminating Pokemon that prevent Ludi+Kingdra from spamming Rain-boosted STAB moves, such as Celebi, Latias, and Chansey/Blissey. However, as an example, if the opponent gets Ninetales in Politoed, what's the harm in sending Chandy in? Either he/she doubles into a Chlorophyller and depending on what it is I can either trap and KO it outright or double back to a proper check, or just sponge a Will-O-Wisp / STAB move and proceed to either cripple it with Trick or spam Shadow Ball until it Roar's me out. Either way, I lose very little and gain a good deal, either in immediate damage or knowledge to the opponent's team structure / playstyle. Also it traps most Aboma almost immediately, which is neat lol.

So many comments Thanks guys, I appreciate all this! @Neo: Hey thanks man, that means a lot @Silver: I'm not a huge fan of weather myself tbh, but sometimes it's gotta be used Thanks @Light: Thanks :] @Wild Monkey: Thank ya @Berserker: Thanks man! I dunno about formatting and such, I just sorta start writing and see where it goes Anywho, I've used Toxic over Ice Beam a lot, and really it's almost entirely preference. At this stage Ice Beam is largely there to force Celebi, Lati@s, and such to Recover, giving me a free switch, while smacking Breloom and such on the switch. Toxic can usually accomplish the same, so it really could go either way Personally I was never a big fan of Chandy's coverage moves, which can really be seen in the set, but as stated prior it really helps with Chansey/Blissey. As far as Outrage on Kingdra goes, the 4th move is almost never used on special Kingdra I could run HP Fight for the extra damage on Ferrothorn, but then I'd be losing a Speed IV, and thus getting beaten by opposing Kingdra Plus, CM Latias is a pain for Rain teams as a whole, and if one switches in on a -2 Kingdra and starts CMing, I have to have Politoed at a good amount of HP to come in and Perish Song to stop it. I'd rather just have that extra assurance I guess haha. @Unknown Guy: Trust me, if I could afford the drop in power for acc. on Terrak, I would, my luck is terrible lol. Unfortunately, it really wants that extra power against stuff like Tentacruel, Jellicent, and so forth. As for the Chandy thing, I have found the utility of Curse (being able to safely force basically anything out, beating Bliss / Chan, forcing Tentacruel into a corner, etc.) to outweigh Energy Ball's immediate usage. If I was running Specs or something I would 100% use Energy Ball, but as is it doesn't amount to much from what I've seen :[ @rc52: I actually was playing with SubSalac Terrakion before changing over to Double Dance, and what brought me back to it was the extra Speed made available. While Substitute is a very nice balanced option for offensive and defensive teams alike, capping out at 519 Speed (post Salac use) was always annoying for it, being unable to outpace faster weather sweepers such as Kingdra and Excadrill. While this definitely makes him a little more susceptible to being checked by priority, he becomes thoroughly more useful once aforementioned priority has been removed. As for the use of Psycho Boost, I did try it out, and while I really like that it smashes Tentacruel (this team isn't a fan of Tenta ), the overall utility of Thunderbolt was somewhat more useful overall. I still use it sometimes though @Skwayz: I don't mean to come off as rude, but some of these comments really come across as odd to me :/ I say Deoxys-S is underrated because I've encountered him a grand total of 1 time in all of my time on this ladder lol. As for Xatu not being played, iirc Slant got #1 with a team that utilized physically defensive Xatu to block hazards, so it's not as though it doesn't exist. Targeting "noobs" that stay in with Tyranitar seems wasteful really, since I can usually get SR+2 layers of Spikes stacked up, while they get up SR and shave off around 18% off their HP from using Pursuit twice (factoring in Lefties). From there I can just go to 'Toed and force it out, at which point it will come in at about 50% next time it comes in. I also really don't understand the idea that stall "rips me apart" due to my LO users. From the matches I've had with stall, Terrakion has found multiple opportunities to set up an SD and smash through teams, and any stall teaming lacking Shed Shell Blissey (which I wouldn't call common lol) doesn't play around Ludicolo/Kingdra+Chandelure at all without making a few risky switches, something stall generally hates to do. In your statement suggesting Timid Ludicolo, who is the he that you state will just U-Turn out? Because the only thing I can think of in which this statement is applicable is Jolly non-Scarf Scizor out of Rain and Finneon lol. I understand your SubSalac suggestion, and I did explain why I used Double Dance over it in a reply. I understand that Breloom are quite common, and I myself run Shed Shell quite often on it, which is why usually Trick them if Ttar was already revealed. From there I can force them to Pursuit (SpDef variants only deal about 55% max when Chandy doesn't switch out), then Curse to force it out, getting back into Terrak, either managing to cripple the Tyranitar and deal big damage to the proceeding switch-in to Terrak or straight KOing Ttar and winning the weather war. It's not as though the whole process is black and white, it's a match between two people :x So I dunno how stall and "smart sand" auto-win against me :[

Hey, welcome to my second RMT on these forums, thanks for clicking :] If you don't know me, much less remember me, it's understandable, as my activity on the server is spotted at best, coming on very rarely and for limited periods of time due to shaky internet connection. That being said, when I do go on, this is the team I use. Having fooled around with this and that for some time, I decided to make a team that could take advantage of the currently presented metagame and format. After a fair amount of testing, I reached what you see today. This team is a Hyper Offensive Rain team, showcasing the painfully underused Deoxys-S' ability to set hazards effectively early-game, as well as a Double Dragon-esque SS core of Ludicolo and Kingdra. While many aspects of this team retain many standard elements, the use of some unorthodox choices allows me to keep the opponent on their toes, even after "revealing" my 'mons and sets. This team has performed admirably for me, easily allowing me to jump to the upper reaches of the leaderboard every time I ladder, and while that certainly doesn't mean much when all is said and done (it's just a number on a board in a Pokemon server ), I believe it proves the team's effectiveness as a whole. While I'm not retiring this team per say, my limited activity makes the idea of "losing surprise value" a moot point, so I might as well get some input on it :] I decided to dedicate this team to the album of the same name, as it's fast-paced and eclectic nature seemed to perfectly denote the nature of this team. That being said, allow me to introduce the team! Deoxys-S | Rocky Helmet***Before I Wake Trait | Timid EVs | 252 HP / 124 Def / 60 SpD / 72 Spe Nature | Timid Stealth Rock Spikes Taunt Thunderbolt Role: It can be said that Deoxy-S is single-handedly the most efficient layer of early-game entry hazards in the game. That being said, Deoxys-S was a natural pick for my team, being able to not only set up 2+ layers of hazards in an average match, but even spreading around some easy residual damage with Rock Helmet. This allows me to punish Volt-Turn without even doing anything, as well as netting some essential damage on support Tyranitar as they Pursuit. This can also help against Rapid Spin users who attempt to spin from the get-go, forcing them to rack up residual damage as they spin and eventually building up a cycle in which I can favourably come in with Chandelure and trap them outright. It's bulk is also quite nice, and usually underestimated by opponents expecting to just pick it off with 2 Politoed Scalds or something along those lines, letting me get up an extra layer almost for free. Moveset, EVs, and Nature: The moveset I find to be rather self-explanatory, with Stealth Rock and Spikes being the optimal hazards for an offensively paced team, and Taunt preventing opponent's from setting up on it. The last slot is rather niche, and isn't used much anyway. However Thunderbolt allows Deoxys-S to hit annoying Xatu that try to prevent my hazards, while also hitting Water-type spinners that annoy Chandelure hard. The EV spread is intended to maximize overall bulk, allowing it to consistently take Specs Politoed's Hydro Pump (as well as 2 defensive 'Toed's Scald's), take Ttar Pursuit's and such better, and give Genesect the SpA boost, preventing it from U-Turning out for heavy damage. 60 Speed EVs and a Timid Nature allows Deoxys-S to outpace everything from Adamant +1 Garchomp down, allowing me to set up an extra layer in their faces. "Tomorrow everything will change Today will never seem the same So I will try to find a way To say everything I need to say And If I should die before I wake Remember everything we said today" Politoed | Leftovers***Suburban Doxology Trait | Drizzle EVs | 252 HP / 204 Def / 12 SpA / 40 Spe Nature | Bold Scald Perish Song Ice Beam Protect Role: Politoed's first and foremost role in this team is to set up Rain. From there, he's a utility. Someone's running Baton Pass? Send out 'Toed to scout for Mr.Mime and break the chain. Need to sponge a Kingdra Draco Meteor? 'Toed can take on real quick. Essentially Politoed serves this team as a defensive pivot and utility counter for the occurrences when I lose offensive momentum. Of course it has to be played more carefully in the instance of winning weather wars, but usually the combination of entry hazards and Chandelure can efficiently remove opposing weather conditions without much hassle. Moreover, it's ability to "break even" with opposing bulky Water-types is quite nice, as many players with leave their bulky Waters in on 'Toed to wear him down, and in return I get to push extra damage and Scald burns onto them, alleviating pressure on Kingdra, Chandelure, and Terrakion. Moveset, EVs, and Nature: The moveset isn't too far-fetched, all being fairly standard of a defensive Politoed. I run Ice Beam over Toxic to ensure more direct damage on Grass- and Dragon-types, which can force Recovers from stuff like Celebi and Lati@s, allowing me to get a safe switch to the appropriate 'mon. The EVs, alongside a Bold nature, maximize physical bulk, with enough Speed to outpace most Scizor and CBtar, and a few EVs in SpA to guarantee Scald to OHKO Chandelure after SR. "'Cause I can't change the way I see the world I stand up and fight for what I don't deserve I know I can't justify my reasons Just tell me the way I ought to feel What's right and wrong, and what you think is real And I'll try to amplify my irony" Chandelure | Choice Scarf***cRaZieS Trait | Shadow Tag EVs | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Nature | Timid Fire Blast Shadow Ball Trick Curse Role: I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Chandelure is one of the best 'mons in the tier. It's ability to trap and beat such an extensive amount of 'mons depending on what set it uses, backed by the lack of Team Preview to properly predict it, Chandelure can fit onto almost any team. However, some people may question the use of it, a Fire-type, on a Rain team. Let me say that if anything, this point makes Chandelure more effective, with fewer people expecting it. Chandelure serves to trap problematic Pokemon before they can do much, including (but not limited to) Ferrothorn, Ninetales, physically defensive Hippowdon (under 65%), Abomasnow, Celebi, Chansey/Blissey, and Lati@s. Of course, it also doubles as a spin-blocker, preventing the hazards set by Deoxys-S from being removed. This forms an excellent synergy, with Deoxys-S setting hazards, and Chandelure protecting the hazards and in turn eliminating the spinners without much hassle. Moveset, EVs, and Nature: The moveset is definitely less than orthodox, so allow me to explain. While my team needs the speed of Choice Scarf to accomplish some KO's, such as that of Lati@s and Starmie, I found coverage moves beyond it's STAB irrelevant, as Pokemon such as Tyranitar and Heatran were already threatened by the entirety of my remaining team. That said, I came up with this. Trick+Curse, in addition to allowing Chandelure to cripple Tentacruel and other irritating walls, allowed Chandelure the added benefit of being able to overcome Chansey / Blissey, crippling them a Scarf and proceeding to wittle them down with Curse. The EVs are straightforward, maximizing offensive presence and giving Genesect an Attack boost. I run Timid over Modest because the extra power is often rather unneeded, and being able to confidently outpace opposing Chandelure and other such Base 80 'mons is nice. "Whooa-o-o There's a body on the floor And the crazies, the crazies are coming to life Whooa-o-o I can't take it anymore 'Cause they're crazy, they're crazy But maybe they're right" Ludicolo | Life Orb***Don't You? Trait | Swift Swim EVs | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Nature | Modest Hydro Pump Giga Drain Ice Beam Substitute Role: Part 1 of my Swift Swim "core", Ludicolo is a monster. Amazing coverage, solid Special Attack, and solid bulk to back it up, Ludicolo can easily clean through a multitude of teams on Spikes support alone. His Grass subtyping is invaluable to my team, allowing to bust through bulky Waters that may otherwise prove problematic to the team. Usually I play Ludicolo rather aggressively, using him to smash stuff and wear down Kingdra's check for it to come in and clean up later (thus the Double Dragon analogy). If that's what goes down, I'm either luring in Chansey, Blissey, Ferrrothorn, etc. to be trapped by Chandelure, I'm wearing down all the generally bulky 'mons for Kingdra later, or I'm straight sweeping. Giga Drain is also huge, preventing him from being casually LO stalled by anyone with a flexible enough defensive core. Moveset, EVs, and Nature: The moveset is fairly standard of Ludicolo, with Hydro Pump being a necessity to mitigate Ludicolo's somewhat middling natural Special Attack and pushing KOs. The only differing trait would be the final move, Substitute. Personally, I found that every other "filler" move was worthless, so I decided upon trying Substitute and it was beautiful. Not only did it accomplish the usual reduction of prediction and easing of pressure on Hydro Pump hitting, but it allowed Ludicolo the ability to avoid Scald burns and Toxic's from bulky Water-types, greatly increasing it's longevity overall. I run max Speed and Special Attack to hit as hard and fast as possible, not wanting to play games with speed creep. "Don't you? Don't you want to be famous? Buy things like you don't even care Don't you? Don't you want to be famous? And everywhere you go have everybody stop and stare" Kingdra | Life Orb***Fight For You Trait | Swift Swim EVs | 4 Atk / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Nature | Modest Surf Draco Meteor Dragon Pulse Outrage Role: Kingdra is debatably the best Swift Swim sweeper in the game. Solid stats across the board, backed by excellent typing making Kingdra a versatile and powerful threat. Considering Ludicolo's impeccable ability to wear down bulky Water-types and Ferrothorn that would otherwise check Kingdra nicely, it can often clean through teams without much effort. It's Dragon STAB is a blessing to Rain teams, allowing it to break through opposing Dragon-types with much more ease than other Swift Swim users, who can often take a non-STAB Ice Beam barring a quad weakness. Moveset, EVs, and Nature: The moveset is strange-ish, but it functions quite well. Surf and Dragon Pulse offer consistent and reliable STAB attacks for Kingdra to spam late-game. Draco Meteor offers a nuke button for dishing out that extra damage to whatever needs to be hit hard. Lastly, Outrage offers a solid attack for netting that KO on a dedicated special wall such as Blissey after wearing it down a bit. The EV spread, coupled with a Modest nature, maximize it's offensive presence, while giving Genesect an Attack boost. While this does decrease the power of Outrage slightly, compromising Kingdra's overall bulk really isn't worth the extra power, especially when it already achieves all the damage I could really ask of it. The additional 4 EVs in Attack guarantee Outrage to OHKO 252 HP Latias after SR damage. "So we stand back to back and we smile as they come Cause they plan for attack Knowing we've already won" Terrakion | Lum Berry***My Way Trait | Justified EVs | 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Nature | Adamant Swords Dance Rock Polish Close Combat Stone Edge ​Role: Terrakion serves this team as a multi-purpose tool. First and fore-mostly, Terrakion helps in breaking down dedicated special walls such as Chansey and Blissey, forcing them out and stacking residual damage on them with hazards. Of course, everyone understands the concept of Double Dance Terrakion, using the respective boost to smash either offensive or defensive teams. Of course, this is where the beauty of the team comes into play. What are the primary offensive checks to a +2 Terrakion? Techniloom and Scizor, no? Both get trapped and KO'ed by Chandelure if they try, or worse, one of the Swift Swimmers get in for free. Defensive responses? Gliscor, Hippowdon, maybe Skarmory? Sound like a bunch of free switches for my Swift Swin 'mons. Whether it's forcing the opponent into a tough position or just straight sweeping, Terrakion is always pulling his weight. Movesets, EVs, and Nature: The moveset is fairly straightforward considering the idea of Double Dance. The EV spread offers maximum offensive presence, while of course giving Genesect an Attack. Having used both Jolly and Adamant extensively, I've found Adamant to be more generally useful, allowing it to more effectively smash through teams (I don't risk Speed ties if at all possible anyway). "Everybody loves to tell me who and what to be More of what they always want and less and less of me I don't give a damn what they all say I'm not here to save the day I may lose it but I'll do it My Way" Importable:

Update / Bump for critique since I'm playing again. I've since implemented a few changes to my team to smooth out some rough patches here and there: For those who care for it, here's the importable:

Oh, comments, cool. Alrighty then, @Valkyria: While this is largely true (Tangrowth can never be OHKOed by a Jolly +6 Linoone's ESpeed, and can take an Adamant one's about 50% of the time), Linoone can't exactly find an opportunity to set up anywhere. All my Pokemon bar Vulpix can threaten him with an OHKO, and I just instantly Roar out whomever sends a Linoone in on it, and then he's incapable of setting up for the rest of the battle. However, I do need to tread somewhat carefully should I see Linoone paired with Screen supporters. @Summer: While Rhyperior is practically the definition of unbalanced stats, it usually doesn't play into his use at all. Naturally I'm not switching him into any Special Attacks, but he ability to take practically any given physical attack and hit hard in return is indispensable, not to mention his ability to lay down Stealth Rock. As for his Water / Grass weaknesses, I have sun weakening the former (backed by two sturdy resists), and 4 resists for the ladder, so there hardly come into play for me, unless I get predicted and switch into an HP Grass off CB Entei or something along those lines. @Icy: He is both lol, Rhyperior serves as an important offensive pivot to this team

Well, it would be theorymoning, should I hadn't gone out and done exactly as my example stated. Also, it should be noted that it is, in fact, a generalized example, feeling as though the best catch-all special wall of tier atm being an example of how dangerous Shaymin-S was. However, if I must, I suppose I will have to resort to discrediting arguments for it, which I was rather against to be quite frank. Now you argue Shaymin-S's counters with a multitude of calcs, but in doing so it reveals a noticeable lack of actual content. My main arguments against what you state as "counters to Shaymin-S are as follows:[list=1] [*]You fail to realize the definition of a counter. A counter refers to a Pokemon A that can switch into any given move of a Pokemon B, then proceed to threaten Pokemon B with a KO. Any Pokemon capable of switching in on a select move or under specific scenarios is not a counter, but a check, and should not be recognized as a solid solution to any given Pokemon. [*]Calcs, while supplying a basic understanding of a subject, is the product of a virtual thought-bubble. That is to say, calcs only depict a complete 1v1 scenario, when it fact the game is riddled with outside factors, including but not limited to prior damage, weather conditions, entry hazards, and prior Pokemon conditions (status ailments, stat boosts, Substitutes, etc.). Thusly, simply saying "Ooh, look, this Pokemon can always beat this Pokemon as long as X, Y, and Z don't occur", doesn't in fact properly reflect the given scenario. [/list] That being said, let's look into your calcs with a little more open-mindedness:[list] [*]Latias, while making a decent check, is by no means a counter. For one, you only account for a singular set, which is misrepresentative of the Pokemon itself. Thusly, you fail to notice that a Life Orb Shaymin can deal 41.2 - 48.9% with a Hidden Power Ice, meaning that if Latias switches in, it will be forced to Recover as Shaymin-S Seed Flares, and with that Latias is either forced out or KOed provided a very likely SpD drop (80% chance). Similarly, even the Sub-Seed set can set up a Leech Seed and continue to fish for hacks with either of it's STAB, a more than viable strategy with such high-success benefits. [*]I can't take Dusclops seriously. Not only does this see almost no play in OU, not only is it not used by any respectable player, not only does it have an Adamant nature despite 0 physical moves and 1 special attack, not only does it carry Ice Beam, which even Pokemon such as Gliscor laugh at, but your calc even shows it gets 2HKOed after Stealth Rock. I don't even know why this calc is here if it's counterproductive for your argument and completely out of context. [*]Earth Power: 384-452 (99.74 - 117.4%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO ; Once again, Shaymin-S runs other sets, clear-cut example of logic in a vacuum. [*]I think I've made my point towards Chansey clear. Also, it can't even beat Sub-Seed, as Leech Seeding such a large HP stat gives Shaymin-S free Substitutes either which way. [*]I don't know how the bloody hell you got those post-Screens calcs, but Seed Flare should be doing 43.42 - 51.31%. However, this point is rather mute, as Seed Flare can OHKO it either way after SR, Spikes, or any real prior damage, already tossing it in the Check Bin, if at all (since most Dual Screen sets don't carry attacks, how do you presume it counters anything?) [*]Same argument for Blissey as Chansey really [*]Earth Power: 178-210 (44.05 - 51.98%) -- guaranteed 3HKO ; loss for 'Rachi should it have received any prior damage, un-situational loss if it's switches into an SpD drop from Seed Flare. Also, considering your set lacks Wish, Sub-Seed Shaymin-S can actually beat 'Rachi with a little luck and a lack of Sand / Hail lol. [*]Should Ferro be switching into a Air Slash, it thusly has about a 40% chance of doing anything in exchange. It has practically 0 chance of really hurting Shaymin-S if it isn't running Thunder Wave either. [*]Ah yes, Choice Scarf Kyurem, epitome of BW OU. How often is he used again? Something like .6% of the time iirc. After switching in on anything in Shaymin-S' arsenal once with SR on the field Kyurem will lose credibility as an answer. What's more, considering the only sets it commonly run are Choice Scarf and Sub+3 Attacks, as soon as the opponent notices a lack of Leftovers recovery, he / she can simply switch out! [*]Scizor, out of everything he, I mostly agree with. However, you calc for Bullet Punch, yet you consider the best Shaymin-S set to be Sub-Seed. Would it be too much to assume that when you try to switch in Scizor, the opponent simply subs up? Behind a sub, Shaymin-S can simply see what you choose to do, preventing Bullet Punch from being overly effective. [*]You listed U-Turn as an option and not a requirement, I don't feel as though I should have to argue this. However, once again, Substitute, Shaymin-S can simply scout what move you lock yourself into. Your own offered set is really doing all the arguing for me, I must thank you for that. [*]You know what, I'm just going to start stating Substitute for each Choice using "counter" you mention, fair? Also, Life Orb Hidden Power Ice OHKOs after Multiscale is broken. [*]Lol, this is by far the greatest example of bubble thinking. You think that the Cloyster will receive absolutely no damage throughout the entire match from anything? That's pretty wishful thinking there. Also, in case this hasn't become obvious, the concept of a dedicated lead died with the advent of Team Preview. [*]^ [*]Who would run Modest Shaymin? More so, should Shaymin-S sub up, it can avoid the primary Thunder Wave and 2HKO with Seed Flare, bar unforeseen parahacks Turn 2. Also Life Orb Hidden Power Ice KOs after SR. [*]Seed Flare: 94.47 - 111.32% from Life Orb set. Moreover, as Shaymin-S might either Seed Flare or Substitute and then proceed to Seed Flare, the worst thing Excadrill is doing is forcing Shaymin-S out. Also, don't try to tell me nothing can safely switch into Excadrill, because every good team has at least one answer to Excadrill. [*]Substitute ;Seed Flare: 528-624 (162.96 - 192.59%) (Life Orb), Seed Flare: 408-480 (125.92 - 148.14%) (Leftovers) [*]Starmie doesn't even outspeed lol, how is this even here? [*]Substitute, assuming for Rain, Ice Beam on Kingdra is pointless as it overlaps with his Dragon STAB and hits nothing bar quad weaknesses [*]Ludicolo assumes for rain, Air Slash cleanly 2HKOs, you're missing 4 EVs btw [/list] In conclusion, with a little open-mindedness, most of these "counters" dissipate into either checks or non-answers. Quite sorry if this comes across with any sort of rudeness, but I simply need to put the calcs into proper perspective.

Oh, one of these discussions. Well, since I posted on something of almost the exact nature as this rather recently, I'll just copy+paste. [quote]Now, if we may, I would like to take a minute to step away from theorymonning and talk about actual application. That is to say, who actually has run Shaymin-S? Personally, I doubt very few people have actually played with Shaymin-S, and I can tell you from experience, he's an absolute monster. Provided with a little Spike support, it can break down so many teams easily. Let me give you an example for some idea of it. Say your opponent has set up SR+1 layer of spikes, a fairly simple amount, and one an inexperienced player may consider "manageable". Your opponent finds an opportunity to sneak in Shaymin-S without taking damage (maybe a double switch, an immunity, etc.). From that point, you decide to switch in Chansey, expecting to cleanly check it. Upon switching in, Chansey takes 25% from hazards, putting it at 75%. Additionally, Shaymin-S hits her on the switch with a Life Orb-boosted Seed Flare, hitting for about 23% (about an average amount of damage on a standard Chansey), as well as getting the SpD drop. Now, sitting at 52%, Chansey is put in a dangerous situation. It could well stay in and try to attempt to poison or paralyze Shaymin-S, but 2 Air Slash's would cleanly 2HKO (27-33% at -2) and would only yield a 40% success rate when taking into account the flinch rate of Air Slash, or Shaymin-S could fish for another SpD drop with another Seed Flare when Chansey attempts to heal, further risking Chansey. However, should she switch out now, it would be almost impossible for her to attempt to check Shaymin-S again without Rapid Spin support, and even then the chances are very slim. Now imagine this scenario every single time a Shaymin-S switches in safely. This alone should be reason enough for her denial from the OU metagame, though I could likely continue, should it become necessary.[/quote]

Hi there, cool team, let me see what I can offer. For starters, I would advise against the use of Solarbeam on your current Ninetales set. Though I can understand your thought process behind it, this is a prime example of an idea looking better on paper, rather than in practice. Ninetales by nature lures in Pokemon such as Tyranitar and Politoed, who hope to usurp the weather advantage as quickly as possible. Should this happen, Ninetales will be locked in, consequently trapping him and often losing you the weather war, putting you at an immediate disadvantage. Keeping this in mind, I suggest one of the following ideas: A. Replace Psyshock for Sunny Day. Sunny Day allows Ninetales to steal momentum from incoming Tyranitar / Politoed switch-in's, sometimes even allowing it to dispatch with Solarbeam (noted after a fair deal of residual damage, as they maintain satisfactory bulk to take a singular Solarbeam). Moreover, Psyshock, whose purpose is allegedly to break special walls such as Chansey / Blissey, is far from capable of accomplishing such a task, and will often be found as a dud move-slot. B. Replace Solarbeam for Energy Ball. Though Sunny Day+Solarbeam is often preferable, if you find yourself uncertain in your ability to predict the switch to an opposing weather starter, Energy Ball still remains a fairly powerful Grass-type coverage move. What's more, since I am rather adamant on the issue of Psyshock, I would also advise replacing this with Hidden Power Ground. This provides a respectable move for hitting Heatran hard without losing a valuable Speed IV, as well as being your best bet against Chandelure attempting to trap you. Lastly, I would suggest replacing Heat Wave for either Fire Blast or Flamethrower, as Heat Wave is simply a failed hybrid of these two moves outside of Doubles and / or Triples, offering nothing of notable benefit. As far as your Raikou goes, it should be noted first and foremostly that Aura Sphere dictates the use of a Rash Nature, as it is a product of an event. How you managed a Timid nature is beyond me. However, in reality, I see little value in Raikou in the context of your team. His ability to break down Rain Stall, check Keldeo, and so on, are all overshadowed by it's other teammates, as well as the presence of Sun. On the other hand, your team currently lacks several staples in a layer of Stealth Rock, a Rapid Spin user (mandatory for a team with 3 SR weak Pokemon), and a Steel-type (Dragon-types plague Sun teams, and Steel-types as a whole are vastly important to the tier itself). Fortunately, all the problems can be solved in a single Pokemon, Forretress. For reference, here is my suggested set: I feel as though you could be getting more out of your current Dragonite set. At the moment, it attempts to both hit as hard as possible and maintain full bulk, and in doing so restricts it's capacity to do either well. In the context of your current team, I would suggest relegating 192 EVs of Attack to Speed, allowing him to outpace Choice Scarf Tyranitar after a Dragon Dance, as well as allowing him to naturally outpace Adamant Breloom whilst unboosted. In addition, I would recommend the use of Roost over Extremespeed, in order to allow Dragonite to better buffer attacks and continue to serve as a pivot for your team. Upon first glancing over Cresselia, my first issue arises with your current EV spread. That is to say that it is not optimal. A spread of 252 HP / 88 Def / 72 SAtk / 96 SDef with a Bold Nature yields the same HP, SAtk and SDef scores, but with 11 extra points in Defense. More so, I find the blatant disregard of the term "neutral coverage" on this set to be somewhat crude. Were I to be asked my opinion, I would consider the use of Reflect over Psychic. While not directly defeating Fighting-types, this allows Cresselia to buffer hits from aforementioned Fighting-types quite nicely and set up on them (while also allowing him to better combats threats such as Excadrill, Grachomp, and more), as well as allowing her to serve as a better "team player", as it were. Well I did in fact do the math, and 252SpAtk Life Orb Solar Power Charizard (Neutral) Heat Wave in Sun vs 252HP/0SpDef Eviolite Chansey (Neutral): 38% - 45% (270 - 319 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. Thusly, perhaps you were battling somebody with some terribly outdated and ineffective Chansey, but I digress. As I mentioned prior, I see very little need for the use of Heat Wave over either Fire Blast or Flamethrower outside of Double and / or Triples (and if you are using this for such, then you have two set-up sweepers too many!). Moreover, as mentioned prior, Solarbeam is an excellent way of letting one of your Pokemon get trapped and KOed by a weather starter. To hit both Tyranitar and Heatran hard, may I suggest Focus Blast in it's stead? The accuracy is a tad shaky, yes, but the coverage is well worth it, and Hidden Power Fighting is far too weak, and also requires the loss of a Speed EV in a critical speed tier. Lastly, as a rule of thumb, Sitrus Berry is incredibly unreliable on any Pokemon not named Linoone. Perhaps an alternative item, such as Choice Specs would be more appropriate. I can say from experience that near everything is getting 2HKOed by Specs Charizard in the sun. From various endeavors with Sawsbuck, I can tell you a that Wild Charge isn't worth it. 2HKOing Skamory is all well and good on paper, but the recoil is astounding, it is literally the only thing it is for, and Skamory can simply switch out either which way. Dispatching Skarmory on a Sun team is often not overly difficult anywho. Point of the matter is, I feel as though you would be better off using Synthesis. Sawsbuck can take full advantage of the switches he forces to heal off damage from Life Orb and hazards, and generally eases his ability to switch into resisted attacks. Additionally, I feel as though Nature Power is far superior to Hi Jump Kick in the current metagame. In addition to preventing him from becoming Chandelure bait, Nature Power also serves as a much safer means to beating Heatran (who runs Air Balloon much less in the given environment) and a better move for dispatching semi-threatening Steel-types. Conclusively, I hope I was of assistance, good luck, and cheers Summary of Suggestions:

Welp, since I feel this deserves serious discussion, prepare for an extensive post. So may I begin by stating that I consider Chandelure to be a balanced force in the current metagame. It may well be a dominant force that any and all players should account for, but is and should not be considered "OP" in any sense of the word. Now in order to properly evaluate Chandelure, one must first look into the pros and cons of the Pokemon itself. Pros: Shadow Tag - Of course first and foremost Chandelure is coveted for it's ability, Shadow Tag. Much controversy has been stirred with the release of this ability, and one can understand why. The overall trapping prowess of Wobbuffet, backed by the highest non-Ubers level Special Attack stat in the game? The possibilities of such overwhelming behemoth could be nothing short of phenomenal. Typing - Though his typing has been for many a mixed bag, it offers many a blessing in certain respects. As a whole, this typing offers resistances and / or immunities to the likes of Normal-, Fire-, Grass-, Ice-, Fighting-, Poison-, Bug-, and Steel-type attacks, amounting to 8 total resistances and immunities of 17 total attacking types. Though some are rather lacklustre in the context of the given metagame (nobody runs Poison-type attacks in OU, that sort of thing), there are some very noteworthy points to this. For instance, a Normal-type immunity grants Chandelure the ability to block Rapid Spin, making him a potent spin-blokcer on more offensively oriented teams. Immunities to Normal- and Fighting-type attacks can almost entirely account for the lack of Choiced Dragonites and Terrakions, all fearing to become promptly trapped and dispatched. What's more, an immunity to Fighting and a resistance to Grass-type attacks allow Chandelure to function as arguably the best offensively oriented Techniloom counter in the tier. More so, resistances to Bug- and Steel-type attacks almost utterly removed the sight of Scizor from Smogon's DW OU, while also deterring the likes of Genesect from strictly U-Turning out. Movepool - Though by no means Smeargle, Chandelure possesses a movepool that firmly establishes all the staples of an offensive Pokemon. Powerful and practical Dual STAB's are supplied to it in Shadow Ball and Overheat / Fire Blast / Flamethrower, and coverage is granted between Energy Ball and Hidden Power. Chandelure can also make full effect of moves such as Substitute, Calm Mind, and Pain Split to both transcend checks and overcome prominent special walls such as Chansey and Blissey. What's more, it even possesses neat utility moves in Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, Memento, Trick Room, and even Sunny Day to allow it to function well in numerous scenarios. Cons: Typing - As mentioned prior, Chandelure's typing is very much a blessing and a curse, and it is a huge point in the matter of his balance in the metagame. First and foremost, his typing makes him weak to every forme of hazard. That is to say that every time he switches in, he will be getting a hefty sum of his HP shaved off unless the player has in some way managed to keep entry hazards off his or her side of the playing field. In itself, this strongly emphasizes the necessity of a Rapid Spin user, being in itself a "check" of sorts to Chandelure. While being potent offensively, Fire / Ghost typing also reveals a couple large flaws, making him susceptible to common Water-, Ground-, and Rock-type attacks. What's more, while his Dual STAB do provide excellent neutral coverage, they naturally reveal counters in very common Pokemon such as Tyranitar and Heatran (as well as somewhat less common ones such as Hydreigon), the former of which can effectively Pursuit trap it and the ladder being able to either shuffle it out or simply attempt to off it with the use of Earth Power. That being said, it can be derived that Chandelure, while not being entirely reliant, requires adequate team support to be utilized to full effect, not unlike almost every other Pokemon. Shed Shell - The greatest answers are sometimes the most simple, and this case is no different. While Chandelure's ability to trap a problematic Pokemon may indeed be undisputed in this metagame, it can do nothing to combat Shed Shell. Many players who have found their vital Pokemon to be prone to be trapped by the likes of Chandelure and other such trappers have taken to the use of Shed Shell, effectively neutering Chandelure's effectiveness in the battle. What's more, the lack of players prepared to face She Shell-wileding Pokemon is simply staggering, putting enormous pressure on Chandelure to the point of even checking him unknowingly. Now whilst keeping this in mind, I must say I was rather distraught by the lack of originality I saw in my brief endeavors within the Reborn OU ladder regarding the usage of Chandelure. Though I was only on the ladder a good 2 hours or so, I still managed to take the time to shoot 3 alts to the leaderboard, and let me say I was befuddled by the omnipresence of Choice Scarf Chandelure on the ladder. In my limited experience in the tier, I have found the Choice Scarf to be the most underwhelming of the numerous sets Chandelure can effectively run. In my eyes, the largest niche of Choice Scarf Chandelure is to revenge kill Pokemon without fear of mis-prediction, and when isolated, this becomes a rather mediocre reason at best. His middling Speed doesn't really do him any favors in checking some major threats I personally would like to see revenge-killed by my revenge killer, and the sole value of easing prediction is simply insufficient, especially when you already have faith in your predictions. Since I don't wish to clog my message with sets I would rather be playing over Choice Scarf, I won't (simply because I'm sure some of you would much rather skim over the sets of a lowly n00b such as myself), however I will set it aside in a spoiler as seen below. Perhaps they can diversify this bleak Chandelure scene, who knows? Sets I will likely run before Choice Scarf: That being said, I shall conclude by saying that be it as it may that Chandelure is an incredibly deadly force in this metagame, he is not without it's faults, and is fully and totally balanced by the natural ramifications of the tier. I hope that this post has provided some insight, opened some eyes to the entirety of the matter, invigorated some new uses of the Pokemon, and of course any combination of the three. Hope this wasn't too much of chore to read through. Edit: Admittedly, I didn't make a concentrated effort of reviewing every message prior to this beyond a brief skimming over, but I have since noticed I did reiterate a couple points already presented. If I did, terribly sorry, just consider it a part of an overall synopsis

Bumping because I was in the mood+Vanilluxe only has 1 viable set imo (Absol / Gurdurr are far too popular to be trying to set up Automizes, and trying to sweep with it is rather presumptuous, the presumption being the opponent is awful). Fruit Sherbet (Mixed Attacker) Vanilluxe (M) @ Life Orb / Expert Belt Trait: Ice Body EVs: 60 Atk / 216 SAtk / 232 Spd Mild Nature - Ice Beam - Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Rock] - Ice Shard - Explosion / Taunt Despite a pitifully confined movepool, Vanilluxe is capable of taking advantage of his Ice typing and respectable offensive Base stats in a mixed set. Ice Beam offers the snow cone a solid primary STAB, backed by his surprisingly large Special Attack. Hidden Power Ground provides excellent coverage, hitting both Steel- and Fire-types hard, though Hidden Power Rock can be used similarly to dispatch Fire- and Ice-type Pokemon. Ice Shard offers Vanillluxe an excellent priority move, allowing him to check Chlorophyl sweepers and birds alike. Explosion is an excellent device Vanilluxe can utilize to offer a free switch to a teammate whilst punching a hole in the opposing Pokemon. However, should you wish to preserve your ice cream, Taunt is a more suitable option which allows it to break through dedicated walls who try to stall you out.

Honestly, I was a tad offset by the title, simply because the usage of the term generic evoked such a negative connotation that I was rather offset. While not being by any means amazing (I tend to stray from the path of genericy whenever competitively possible), more run-of-mill teams are still founded upon successful and effective strategies, and make for an excellent base point for a team, if not the final product. However, in brief inspection I found A. Your team, while having somewhat standard sets, is not at all as generic in build as you let on, and B. The prior comments are rather misleading, for the most part. I am in no way insulting the integrity of these people, as I am sure they mean well, but their comments reflect a certain lack of open-mindedness that I have come to detest in such aspects. For instance, Dragon Claw and Outrage are used as Salamence already attains perfect coverage with 3 moves, and fully appreciates a move lacking that unfortunate lock-in effect early-game, where Steel-types in reserve are still healthy enough to withstand his Outrages and retort in some way, shape, or forme. What's more, the use of speed EVs on Choice Band Scizor, while not being entirely conventional, is perfectly reasonable, allowing it to outpace foes including but not limited to Specially Defensive Heatran, Cresselia, Jellicent, opposing Scizor, and Defensive Rotom-W. Having hopefully dissipated some misconceptions, I will carry on with my rate. As much as I hyped up a faster Choice Band Scizor, I have never experienced a point where I have needed beyond 172 Speed EVs on any non-Choice Scarfed set. In your case, I would recommend a spread of 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe, which allows him to outpace uninvested Heatran (who really don't feel obligated to speed creep due to the nonexistence of Bulk Up Breloom is the DW metagame). Since your Infernape appears to lack an item, I will assume for Life Orb. Notwithstanding, I feel Earthquake is not the best use of an item slot in this scenario. The only benefit of it over say, Stone Edge, is an SE hit against Tentacruel, which is not all too impressive nonetheless. More so, you lack a user of Stealth Rock, which is quite largely the single most important move in the competitive metagame. Thusly, I would recommend replacing Earthquake for Stealth Rock, allowing you to check large threats such as Chandelure, Dragonite, Thundurus, and more much more easily. While I do not deny Porygon2 as being an excellent Pokemon in the metagame, I disagree with his current use as a more generalized pivot on your team, especially with threats such as Keldeo and Thundurus virtually unchecked at the moment. If I may, I would like to suggest replacing him with Amoongus. Below is my suggested set: Lastly, we come to Tentacruel, which in my opinion is largely unnecessary on your team. The use of Toxic Spikes offensively requires specified attention and focus, of which this team lacks. As I prepare my flame shields, I will suggest to you something a tad unorthodox: replace Tentacruel with Excadrill. I realize the use of Excadrill outside of Sand seems preposterous, but I assure you it is not. Excadrill retains capabilities as one of the best offensive Rapid Spinners in the game, and in addition to sporting a solid Steel-typing, also makes for an instant late-game cleaner against opposing Sand teams. The set: Well, there's my two cents on the matter, do with it as you will. Good luck and Cheers.

Well, I certainly appreciate all the kind words, thanks As for the Hitmonchan Rapid Spin bit, I really haven't a clue I've been trying to explain to myself for some time now, and nothing readily comes to mind. As for the Ice issue, I did notice that in construction of the team, and simply decided to let it play out. Oddly enough, not as large an issue as one might think. The majority of bulky waters rely upon alternatives coverage moves (Lanturn, Gastrodon, etc.) or simply rely more on Toxic and Scald Burn's to deal damage of any sort (Blastoise mostly). Ice-types, while possessing STAB that can very well trounce my team, also can essentially switch in nowhere, as all my team carries a move to hit them for SE damage. However, if I'm not careful, Sub+Nasty Plot Jynx can clean my team out, and is most likely to biggest threat to this team :x Worst comes to worst, Klinklang would likely make a suitable replacement for Druddigon, though it would open up a bit of hole for Eelektross.

welp, I might as well toss a couple of thoughts this way, especially because atm this thread lacks what I consider to be the most pragmatic (and effective) Gyarados in the current metagame. [Substitute+Dragon Dance] [Gyarados] (M/F) @ [Leftovers] Trait: [Intimidate] EVs: [216 Attack, 204 Speed, 88 HP] [Nature] Adamant - Dragon Dance - Substitute - Waterfall - Bounce / Stone Edge [In a metagame dominated by fast-paced Volt-Turn teams and hard-hitting juggernauts such as Dragonite and Terrakion, one would hardly imagine it possible to successfully pilot a more conservative sweep. However, Gyarados is able to accomplish just that with a combination of natural bulk (backed by Intimidate), excellent typing, and the simple use of the move Substitute. As opposed to more offensive sets, this set aims to set up slowly, allowing it more opportunities to set up. Substitute is the crux of this set, allowing Gyarados to avoid pesky status ailments, in addition to keeping him safe from the likes of Rotom-W or Choice Scarf Terrakion, of whom would otherwise stop his sweep cold. Waterfall serves as Gyarados' primary STAB, offering excellent neutral coverage as a whole. Bounce, while often being shunned for it's unbecoming 2-turn nature, is actually an excellent option for Gyarados, not only offering a STAB coverage move that allows him to hit the entire tier bar Rotom-W for neutral damage or better, but also in allowing him a slight amount of extra Leftovers recovery. However, if you fear the primary turn of Bounce being taken advantage of, Stone Edge also offers excellent neutral coverage in tandem with Waterfall, as well destroying Dragon-types such as Dragonite and Salamence who try to weather Gyarados' attacks.] Although nobody asked my opinion, I shall give it anyway: -Adamant > Jolly on Offensive Dragon Dancer sets. As is he is already trolling Base 80's, all of whom almost never run a +Speed Nature (the only common one I know being Mono-Attacker Dragonite, which is by no means his most common set), there is no real need to look into that aspect. Naturally speaking, Base 130's (being Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and Crobat) are all so rarely seen that's ridiculous, and shouldn't at all be considered in a primary slash. When you get right down to it, the only reasons one would wish to run Jolly over Adamant are A.To outpace +Speed Nature Base 70's (looking mainly at Breloom/Politoed, though Magneton does have niche use), or B.To get the drop on Neutral Natured Rotom-A (who can, in fact, run Timid to counteract either way). I'm not saying Jolly shouldn't be mentioned, i would just consider it second slash material. -As far as 2nd move coverage is concerned, as this seems to be in heated debate, it really is more along the lines of this: Bounce (STAB, best bet against bulkier Grass-types, only notably resisted by Rotom-W, downside being the 2-turn attack issue) > Stone Edge (notable resists:Ferrothorn, Gastrodon, Keldeo, Breloom / Virizion) > Return (resisted by Ferrothorn+Jellicent, but neutral coverage isn't great in this generation) > Ice Fang (resisted by basically every Water-type) > Earthquake (resisted by most Grass-types, opposing Gyarados, Dragonite / Salamence, etc.). Do with that as you will. -Intimidate has merit on the offensive set too, allowing him to set up on Choice-locked physical attacks, most Fighting-types, Scizor, etc. Also, Lum Berry is worth looking into for allowing him to set up on bulky Water-types relying on Scald to check him, among other uses. Possibly to come (I'm somewhat lazy): Choice Band+Support sets

Greetings one and all to my obligatory introductory RMT. For those who do not know me, I take this chance to introduce my character, give you, the reader, a quick look into my playstyle, and hopefully offer a little insight for this and that. Not without the ability to offer up a team that may need a touch of crowd-sourced improvement, of course That being said, I shall delve into the team itself. Teambuilding Process: The team, granted it's name from a song by Third Eye Blind (and covered by Four Year Strong, but I digress), is more or less a burst of creativity, which resulted in a team that is generally enjoyable to use...and may or may not have resulted from "alternative means", but that's neither here nor there. I'll take the time now to give shout-outs to Blade (he'd rather me refer to him as Nero, but I suppose that's tough .-.), Sweetie Luv, and Bass, whom helped in testing the team, as well as doing my dirty work by taking these teams to the server to test. Though they didn't actually encounter battles in the appropriate tier, they still put up with this nonsense while battling against even OU teams, even managing to pull some wins out of it (even with Bass-like hax issues ). Finally, with this and that out of the way, let's proceed on to the actual content. @ Calm | Drought | Female 248 HP | 208 SDef | 52 Spd Fire Blast | Toxic | Will-O-Wisp | Roar Though most certainly not my "designated lead" by any means, Vulpix seemed the best place to start as any with this RMT. Unfortunately, due to a lack of any apparent offensive prowess, saying her options are limited is far and away the understatement of the year. However, I would never let such a detail prevent her from becoming dead weight on my team. With a fair level of special bulk, complimented by Eviolite, Vulpix serves as my primary special pivot. This bulk allows her to switch in on Pokemon such as Moltres and Houndoom, effectively neutralizing them as threats. From that point I have the liberty to utilize his abilities as an adequate status platform, spreading Burns or Poisons to wear down opposing walls or neuter dangerous offensive threats, or simply phazing out the foe to rack up damage from Stealth Rock and such. Fire Blast remains there solely for obligatory STAB, though it rarely sees much use, considering it's limited damage output. The EVs are used to maximize bulk, while giving him enough speed to outpace uninvested Base 70's. Plain and simple, not all to much to elaborate upon. @ Timid | Flame Body | N/A 4 Def | 252 SAtk | 252 Spd Fire Blast | Air Slash | Hidden Power [Grass] | Roost The self-proclaimed star of the show, and possibly the greatest threat of the tier. If it weren't for such an outstanding weakness to Stealth Rock, it would easily be UU. Outlandishly high Special Attack allows Moltres to practically 2HKO the entire tier, and respectable natural bulk mean it isn't even a simple glass cannon. Moving on, the set in itself is fairly simple, Roost+3 Attacks. Fire Blast is pretty safely my primary "spam" STAB, and can safely burn through most of the common special walls of the tier (pun very much intended) in one or two hits. Air Slash, while not being all too important, still remains my most reliable method of hitting Flash Fire Pokemon, in addition normal Fire- and Dragon-types out of the sun. More so, the excessive flinch rate offers a decent method of granting a little "free damage", which helps overcome certain walls. Hidden Power Grass rounds off it's coverage, hitting Rock- and Water-type Pokemon harder and more reliably than either alternative. Lastly, Roost provides reliable recovery, which while seeming somewhat minor at first, essentially makes this set work. It allows Moltres to shake off LO recoil, which can extend it's lifespan long enough to pull off a sweep, or possibly to show up late-game as more than simply death fodder. More so, this allows allows me the ability to stay in and fight off threats like Defensive Lanturn and 2HKO with Hidden Power Grass at my discretion, something that would be otherwise impossible without the support of Roost and Sun. Lastly, I promptly snatched up Flame Body over Pressure with the prospect of crippling a U-Turning foe in a switch-in, effectively deterring opposing Volt-Turn cores from acting so hastily (+crippling Fighting-types I switch into). @ Adamant | Iron Fist | Male 128 HP | 252 Atk | 4 SDef | 124 Spd Rapid Spin | Drain Punch | Ice Punch | Mach Punch I've likely been caught saying this before, but Hitmonchan is simply a specimen of versatility. Powerful, deceptively bulky, and generally versatile in use, I can be sure to rely on Hitmonchan for a variety of tasks. Of course his primary use on this team is to serve as my Rapid Spinner, enabling Moltres and making for an easier switch to Vulpix. However, this doesn't stop him from serving other purposes. Priority in the forme of Mach Punch also allows him to check Sucker Punch users such as Absol and Houndoom from safely threatening to revenge-kill any singular member of my team. What's more, Drain Punch allows Hitmonchan to not only prevent Rock-types such as Aggron and Rhyperior from raining on my parade, but actually reliably recover near all lost HP from it, abusing their natural bulk for myself. Ice Punch rounds of the coverage, hitting Flying-types (as well as irritating Victreebel) for SE damage, while retaining the boost from Iron Fist. The EV spread given allows him to outpace + Nature Base 50's and lower (including most standard walls) while maximizing Attack, with the rest tossed into bulk. @ Adamant | Solid Rock | Female 120 HP | 252 Atk | 48 SDef | 88 Spd Stealth Rock | Rock Blast | Earthquake | Megahorn Rhyperior takes on the role of Stealth Rock-er of the team, though he serves quite a few additional kindnesses to this team. Por orejemplo, he also acts as my primary check to birds (Swellow, Braviary, etc.), as well as my primary momentum-killer for Manetric, among others. What's more, there are just about zero things that can safely switch in on him. Well, I suppose that's an exaggeration, Gligar and Air Balloon-toting Steel-types have little to worry about, my mistake. The point of the matter is that little to no Pokemon can handle the attacks Rhyperior dishes out. As far as the set itself is concerned, I run Rock Blast over Stone Edge to grant him the utility to beat Pokemon relying upon Substitute due to subpar bulk, as well as making quick work of most "suicide leads". Megahorn offers an excellent move to take a chunk out of incoming Tangrowth, Claydol, and such, either forcing them out or simply dispatching them, making most everything a good deal easier for me. The EV spread offers maximum offensive capabilities, enough speed to outpace minimally invested Base 50's, and enough HP to hit a Lefties #, with the rest dropped into Special Defensive to better receive specially oriented Fire-types attacks. @ Adamant | Chlorophyl | Male 8 HP | 252 Atk | 4 Def | 244 Spd Power Whip | Rock Slide | Sleep Powder | Growth If not Moltres, Tangrowth is probably this team's MVP. However, it is not exactly in the same sense as one might expect. Upon first inspection of the set, one might consider it to a sweeper of sorts. However, it is important to keep in mind that Tangrowth is an offensive utility 'mon first, with a sweep being more an afterthought than anything else. With that in mind, I present to you one of the most underrated Chlorophyler's in the metagame. Often tossed aside for his less than phenomenal speed stat, Tangrowth is denied the respect it so rightfully deserves. Not only does it possess hugely potent Attack and Special Attack scores, but his continental physical bulk grants him the luxury of switching on Pokemon like Primeape without fear of U-Turn, setting up even with priority users in the opponent's wing, etc. With those kind of credentials, taking stray Earthquakes that may have bothered my teams is a cakewalk for him, even with such a meager investment in bulk. One would hardly believe his Power Whip hits as hard as it does, which is just the reason I get a grin on my face when Sceptile switches into it and takes upwards of 40%. Rock Slide offers awesome SE coverage against Bug-, Fire-, and Flying-type Pokemon, only notably missing out on coverage against Klinklang. Sleep Powder is just, you know, Sleep Powder. When it isn't missing taking a potential threat out of the match, it's allowing me to set up a Growth in front of Spiritomb or a Fire-type. However, on the off chance that I can't put to sleep an opponent trying to cripple Tangrowth with status, or I've simply already used up my Sleep Powder, Lum Berry allows me to set up right in front of what might have been a game-changing status move, which is a huge game-clincher at times. Now dome of the more seasoned players may question my use of Growth over the more consistent Swords Dance. The reason for this is actually largely a facade. For those who don't know me, I have such a penchant for feinting this, or faking that, that most conventional players never have a bloody clue what I'm trying to accomplish. But the simple truth of the matter is that keeping the opponent in the dark is something I do best, and that can really be seen with this set. Growth allows me put up the ruse that I hold the Hidden Power Fire, which scares the opponent into keeping their Steel-types out, and more importantly, lure Fire-types in. @ Adamant | Rough Skin | Male 232 HP | 240 Atk | 12 SDef | 24 Spd Outrage | Superpower | Sucker Punch | Dragon Tail Finally we move on to the "glue" of my team. Druddigon is an irritant to Volt-Turn, a secondary source of priority, a safe switch-in to bulky Waters, a phazer, and more. He is, dare I say it, the cat's pajamas. Try to prove me wrong, I dare you. In fact, try to make sense of what I'm saying, that would likely be a more reasonable task. In addition to his grandiose pivotal capacities, he can also hit like a tank. With the distinct lack of Steel-types in the tier, backed by this team's ability to dispatch the few there are with ease, I can often shoot off Outrage's without much tact at all, and I can safely say that very few Pokemon want to switch into that. However, for the few who can, Superpower usually makes short work off them, as well as smashing problematic Munchlax. Sucker Punch of course offers Druddigon to safely revenge-kill frailer Pokemon, making opposing Chlorophylers much less worrisome. Lastly, we have Dragon Tail. Though often seen on more defensively inclined Pokemon, it also provides an excellent choice for my offensive set. When in doubt as to what the opponent will switch into, I can Dragon Tail, forcing the opponent out and racking up Stealth Rock damage. Once I've gone for th Superpower, the opponent thinks he/she can simply set up whatever they please while I switch out, when in reality I've just phazed them out. I can't possibly imagine running Dragon Claw over this, the utility of Dragon Tail is just too good to let go. The EV spread given maximizes offensive presence and bulk, with enough speed to beat out minimally invested Base 50's to the punch. And with that, you have my team. I'd like to thank all of you who have bothered to read through all of this nonsense, and I hope you have enjoyed reading through all of it. Rate, comment, another third thing, whatever you see fit. A Final Look:

...isn't what you will receive from me in the slightest. I shant visit the server itself often, to be quite frank, but I'll likely hold some level of forum presence, if only in discussion of competitive play. As a brief description into myself, I am a talentless bum, a strict buffoon, and (let's be real here) a hapless hipster. With that being said, I'm sure I will charmed to meet you all with time, and perhaps I can be of help to the forums in one way or another.