Neo
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Posts posted by Neo
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honestly a couple of years ago i disliked jay-z. but then i really just sat down and listened to the blueprint and the black album and i realized i wasnt looking at his music right. he really pushed for hip-hop to become more open in terms of expression. think the transition from say 50 cent to kanye west. overall i'd say jay-z is the man when it comes to staying relevant because he's been doing it for fucking years.
also dead presidents ii is the fucking goat
Dead presidents II. That Nas sample and the piano. Fuckin' perfect.
Hov is damn good at keeping relevant and making good tunes. Which is crazy, like yeah "good" may not be a good bar for the GOAT since anything less than great is seen as a letdown, but it's mad impressive. 13 consecutive #1 albums is fucking unreal.
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Ame is trash tbh
Retweet
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Our lemon who art in wasteland...
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When you solo push two lanes and out damage everyone but Jax in the kite call screamin about how he carried
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WEEK 4:
Description:
Before Jay-Z fashioned himself into hip-hop's most notorious capitalist, he was a street hustler from the projects who rapped about what he knew -- and was very, very good at it. Skeptics who've never cared for Jigga's crossover efforts should turn to his debut, Reasonable Doubt, as the deserving source of his legend. Reasonable Doubt is often compared to another New York landmark, Nas' Illmatic: A hungry young MC with a substantial underground buzz drops an instant classic of a debut, detailing his experiences on the streets with disarming honesty, and writing some of the most acrobatic rhymes heard in quite some time. (Plus, neither artist has since approached the street cred of his debut, The Blueprint notwithstanding.) Parts of the persona that Jay-Z would ride to superstardom are already in place: He's cocky bordering on arrogant, but playful and witty, and exudes an effortless, unaffected cool throughout. And even if he's rapping about rising to the top instead of being there, his material obsessions are already apparent. Jay-Z the hustler isn't too different from Jay-Z the rapper: Hustling is about living the high life and getting everything you can, not violence or tortured glamour or cheap thrills. In that sense, the album's defining cut might not be one of the better-known singles -- "Can't Knock the Hustle," "Dead Presidents II," "Feelin' It," or the Foxy Brown duet, "Ain't No Nigga." It just might be the brief "22 Two's," which not only demonstrates Jay-Z's extraordinary talent as a pure freestyle rapper, but also preaches a subtle message through its club hostess: Bad behavior gets in the way of making money. Perhaps that's why Jay-Z waxes reflective, not enthusiastic, about the darker side of the streets; songs like "D'Evils" and "Regrets" are some of the most personal and philosophical he's ever recorded. It's that depth that helps Reasonable Doubt rank as one of the finest albums of New York's hip-hop renaissance of the '90s. - allmusic
Lyrics:
It took me a bit to get to the GOAT (greatest of all time), but he's finally here. Jay-Z, in my opinion, represents the pinnacle of Hip-Hop in many facets. Reasonable Doubt, his debut album, is without a shadow of a doubt a top-10 of all time HIp-Hop album. (top 3 to me, actually) There's little I can tell you about Jay-Z that he won't tell you himself, so I'm gonna let my main man do the talkin' and y'all stick around for the thread about status as the GOAT and rappers that are in contention for it soon.
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This wasn't the first time I've heard of Snoop's Doggystyle. Of course I've heard the classics of Murder Was the Case and Gin & Juice, but I've never listened to the whole thing. I'd just have to say, how can you be upset listening to this album? Sad, depressed or somewhat stressed out? This is the epitome of the laid back scene of Cali, which Snoop personifies entirely. His laid back rapping over Dre's take on G-Funk is what makes this album a GOAT. Even the features here didn't disappoint, but that was because they controlled the songs and went in a different direction. When the members form the Dogg Pound appear, the album shifts from the laid back Cali, to the more aggressive "don't fuck with us" type gangsta sound that starts with Murder Was the Case until we get to For All My. When Ain't No Fun comes on, we're back to the laid back side of LA again.
Overall this album is good, probably Snoop's greatest album. But I can say that the transition from the East to West coast was really apparent. Using Illmatic for example, the beats sounded more organic. Like I could picture the trains and traffic associated with New York and being on the corner with Nas in NY. But with Snoop, I can only picture like a kickback or party in the sunset with palm trees in the background. That was normal right?
Definitely normal. The music is very much supposed to give you that scenic West coast vibe
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Fucking solo carried the last game before getting my level 7
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If Illmatic is supposed to be the entrance to the sea of Hip-Hop, it's well worth the jump.
To be honest, I am on the same boat as Hukuna. I don't understand much of the lyrics, but that's bs. I'm also the guy that doesn't speak Japanese and hear songs in japanese.
tbh, I have no idea why I shyed away from Hip-Hop/Rap, especially since my older brother listens to it A LOT. That's how I recognized "The World is Yours" and "One Time 4 Your Mind", even though I didn't knew 'Nas' name. Hearing the entire album made me interested enough to pay more attention to Hip-Hop.
I didn't really find any songs that "spoke to me" (Perhaps a few lyrics), but then again, I'll never really understand the kind of shit Nas went through in his life, I guess.
I plan on listening the other two albums later, but I hope you'll keep up this topic. One of the problems I've had with Hip-Hop is that I can't remember names, since I wasn't paying attention before.
I'm real glad that you enjoyed Illmatic, fam. Thanks for takin' the time to listen in.
Let me ask you something Erick:
- What exactly drew you to this genre? Is it because the lyrics speak with you, you grew up hearing it, a combination or something else?
Music in my house, and the houses of my close and extended family was always centered around our identities. Mainly Black genres of music, including West Indian music, with smatterings of chinese.
Hip-hop's been apart of my life for the longest time. There was a decent portion of time where I was a total coconut, and acted like I didn't like it, or anything associated with being black, really. Then I woke the fuck up and came back to the genre that's been in the background for me the whole time. Shit, my first album was DMX's "It's Dark and Hell is Hot." Hip-hop speaks to me, but it really is apart of my culture and who I am.
- Would you listen to Hip-Hop that you don't understand? I mean, at least I'm assuming you don't speak portuguese~
I listen to Hip-hop from Puerto Rico, mainly because my cousin is a rapper (he sucks) and is always tryna get us to listen to it. That's cheating though, since I speak Spanish. I do try to give other hip-hop scenes some shine, though I've found many are missing that something about the art. Maybe because it's not their culture and one they're adopting/choosing to participate in. (The same can be said of a bunch of white rappers here in the US like Sage Francis, Aesop Rock, Atmosphere, etc.)
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GROUND TYPE BEST TYPE
DON'T LET ALL THESE EDGY EMO REBORN FUCKS TELL YOU THAT GHOST/DARK/PSYCHIC ARE GOOD THAT IS A TRICK
THE EARTH IS MOST IMPORTANT
GROUND IS MOST IMPORTANT
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WEEK 3:
SNOOP DOGG - DOGGYSTYLE
TW: murder, misogyny, sex
Description:
If Snoop Dogg's debut, Doggystyle, doesn't seem like a debut, it's because in many ways it's not. Snoop had already debuted as a featured rapper on Dr. Dre's 1992 album, The Chronic, rapping on half of the 16 tracks, including all the hit singles, so it wasn't like he was an unknown force when Doggystyle was released in late 1993. If anything, he was the biggest star in hip-hop, with legions of fans anxiously awaiting new material, and they were the ones who snapped up the album, making it the first debut album to enter the Billboard charts at number one. It wasn't like they were buying an unknown quantity. They knew that the album would essentially be the de facto sequel to The Chronic, providing another round of P-Funk-inspired grooves and languid gangsta and ganja tales, just like Dre's album. Which is exactly what Doggystyle is -- a continuation of The Chronic, with the same production, same aesthetic and themes, and same reliance on guest rappers. The miracle is, it's as good as that record. There are two keys to its success, one belonging to Dre, the other to Snoop. Dre realized that it wasn't time to push the limits of G-funk, and instead decided to deepen it musically, creating easy-rolling productions that have more layers than they appear. They're laid-back funky, continuing to resonate after many listens, but their greatest strength is that they never overshadow the laconic drawl of Snoop, who confirms that he's one of hip-hop's greatest vocal stylists with this record. Other gangsta rappers were all about aggression and anger -- even Dre, as a rapper, is as blunt as a thug -- but Snoop takes his time, playing with the flow of his words, giving his rhymes a nearly melodic eloquence. Compare his delivery to many guest rappers here: Nate Dogg, Kurupt, and Dat Nigga Daz are all good rappers, but they're good in a conventional sense, where Snoop is something special, with unpredictable turns of phrase, evocative imagery, and a distinctive, addictive flow. If Doggystyle doesn't surprise or offer anything that wasn't already on The Chronic, it nevertheless is the best showcase for Snoop's prodigious talents, not just because he's given the room to run wild, but because he knows what to do with that freedom and Dre presents it all with imagination and a narrative thrust. If it doesn't have the shock of the new, the way that The Chronic did, so be it: Over the years, the pervasive influence of that record and its countless ripoffs has dulled its innovations, so it doesn't have the shock of the new either. Now, Doggystyle and The Chronic stand proudly together as the twin pinnacles of West Coast G-funk hip-hop of the early '90s. -allmusic
Lyrics:
Doggystyle is, in my opinion, the greatest album to come out of the West Coast scene edging out The Chronic 2001, Straight Outta Compton, AND Death Certificate for this title. The last two posts were legendary East Coast albums, so I decided to switch it up. Snoop Dogg, 19 at the time, lays down an excellent performance backed by production from another legend Dr. Dre. This album and many of its songs have become the definition of G-Funk and West Coast Hip-Hop. You've more than likely heard the song "Gin & Juice" before, you've more than likely heard the phrase "Ain't no fun if the homies can't get none", and we all know about the words "Fo' shizzle my nizzle". We have Snoop for popularizing these things. The album's biggest shortcoming is that it is horribly misogynistic, which, sadly, isn't exactly surprising dude to Snoop drawing from Pimp culture, which in and of itself is misogynistic. That being said, this album is still an easy 10/10, and a very important one in Hip-Hop's history, so scroll back up and give it a listen.
(unrelated, but don't forget y'all can discuss the music/ask questions n shit. Especially those who aren't totally familiar with Hip-Hop)
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Listening to this album was a first for me. I really enjoyed how personal and deep the album was. Her lyrics about her life experiences with love, career and her family were all well executed. Her singing is really good too. She really was the first to open up the genre to the mainstream world without flaunting her feminine charms, but sharing her stories of childhood and heartbreak. Top 3 songs for me would have to be To Zion, Final Hour & Lost Ones. I also think the title track was a nice way to close out the album.
Regarding her impact on mainstream hip-hop, you really would'nt be able to tell by listening to the album alone until you did some slight research. She was nominated for 10 grammys and won 5 of them and this album remained on the Billboard 200 for a record long 80 weeks (Adele would go and break this following her debut album 21). Even though I will never understand the true impact Ms. Hill had on hip-hop within itself, but she did have "that thing," and it shined oh, so brightly.
I'm really glad that you liked the album, fam. Lauryn's impact can be felt, less so musically, and more culturally as you'll have rappers calling back to her and this album constantly. She's an all-time great that's recognized as one by other all-time greats.
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JUNE IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN MUSIC APPRECIATION MONTH!
Just in case y'all ain't know. This month is mad important, because it helps recognize the very foundation of music in this country. Y'all can celebrate by listenin' to Jazz, Soul, Funk, or maybe I dunno, Hip-hop.
I'll be posting a nice little mix in celebration of this month pretty soon.
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Let it be known I am a support main
Assists as far as the eye can see!
Don't waste your money on Talisman or rechargeable potions, go eyes, get your damn aegis, sunfire is a nono
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WEEK 2:
Lauryn Hill - The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill
Description:
Though the Fugees had been wildly successful, and Lauryn Hill had been widely recognized as a key to their popularity, few were prepared for her stunning debut. The social heart of the group and its most talented performer, she tailored The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill not as a crossover record but as a collection of overtly personal and political statements; nevertheless, it rocketed to the top of the album charts and made her a superstar. Also, and most importantly, it introduced to the wider pop world an astonishingly broad talent. Hill's verses were intelligent and hardcore, with the talent to rank up there with Method Man. And for the choruses she could move from tough to smooth in a flash, with a vocal prowess that allowed her to be her own chanteuse (à la Mariah Carey). Hill, of Haitian heritage, rhymed in a tough Caribbean patois on the opener, "Lost Ones," wasting little time to excoriate her former bandmates and/or record-label executives for caving in to commercial success. She used a feature for Carlos Santana ("To Zion") to explain how her child comes before her career and found a hit single with "Doo Wop (That Thing)," an intelligent dissection of the sex game that saw it from both angles. "Superstar" took to task musicians with more emphasis on the bottom line than making great music (perhaps another Fugees nod), while her collaborations with a pair of sympathetic R&B superstars (D'Angelo and Mary J. Blige) also paid major dividends. And if her performing talents, vocal range, and songwriting smarts weren't enough, Hill also produced much of the record, ranging from stun-gun hip-hop to smoother R&B with little trouble. Though it certainly didn't sound like a crossover record, The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill affected so many widely varying audiences that it's no surprise the record became a commercial hit as well as a musical epoch-maker.
Lyrics:
One of my favorite albums ever. Period. Lauryn is an excellent MC all-around, and to many has a place in the GOAT conversation for this album and her work with the Fugees. This album is an absolute staple in the genre, and gained Lauryn respect amongst other rappers as one of Hip-Hop's finest. Thematically, the album is a departure from Illmatic, which is why it was chosen to display a completely different spectrum of Hip-Hop AND to give exposure to, one of, if not the greatest woman in Hip-Hop.
(All the albums are in the bookeeping post for the sake of reducing lag)
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Professional piece of shit rolling through
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PRETTY BOI FACE, EYELASH GAME SKRONG, HAIR ON POINT
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Musically the regions have significant differences, linguistically they do not have significant differences.so are the differences significant or not? Because you just got done saying they were
(I'll write out an actual response to this thread later)
@Medic
That's more than fair. Thanks for taking time to contribute to the thread
@Ama
Keep an eye on the other threads and I'll see if I can post tracks with beats that might interest you
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So, AAVE is a dialect that then gets commonly merged with other dialects within music?
It's a dialect that, as to be expected in a country so large, has small regional differences. These regional differences aren't big enough to be dialects themselves.
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If you don't like the music, all you have to do is say "I don't like the music." Perhaps say why. Perhaps you find it in many cases to be unintelligible. There are white rappers who sound moronic in their own write. Yes Hip-Hop is primarily an art form by Black individuals, but I think saying you dislike the way black people sound is a poorly worded generalization. I could show you plenty of more intelligent music that might change your mind. A large part of the negative perception towards hip hop comes from the commercialization by the big businesses backing it who push that sort of music into the lime light. In many cases we've come to accept music that is rather unintelligible. This has started to turn back around slightly in the past couple years with artists such as Drake and Kendrick Lamar overtaking some others like Rick Ross and Lil Wayne.
No I'm not trying to chastise you for what you're saying, I think you're still stuck behind the 'Hip-Hop Stereotype' wall, so to speak. There are songs for everyone expressing each and every emotion you could think of delivered in a wide multitude of ways.
Many rappers break outta they're out box every so often.
Rick Ross' tape Black Dollar is a great example of this, We gon' make it in particular.
Thing is, when it comes to art, whether or not you like something is half of the point. Art is expression, but art is also entertainment. As an expression, even the most "objectively bad" things are a positive, because expressing oneself is never bad. But as entertainment, what matters is what the one looking to be entertained finds enjoyable
I see nothing to examine. I spoke what I believed to be the truth and find no issue with it
I don't think that the parts of hip-hop that focus on things that people find distasteful should be above being criticized for that focus. I won't criticize them for it, I mean, this is one of my favorite songs. But that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed that criticism
I don't like the way an AAVE accent sounds when put into musical form, if that's anti-black then fine, I'll be anti-black. It doesn't change the fact that I don't enjoy it. And I don't feel like changing how I feel about the singing just because someone tells me it's part of a negative social bias. I would rather be racist than lie to myself
And I do largely understand AAVE because my cousins (well, technically mother's cousins and their kids) on my mother's father's side speak it and I've spent a lot of time with them over the past few years. I have no trouble understanding my schoolmates (my school is about 60% inner-city black kids)
I admire you for sticking to your guns, even if they are offensive to myself and my people. That being said, I feel as though saying "I don't like the way AAVE sounds musically" is not only anti-black, but also ignores the fact that like with any sort of accent and voice, each person has a different one.
You've got New York soundin' guys like the Wu-Tang Clan
You've got the diverse voices of the South
Andre 3000's 'gentlemanly' Southern voice, Pimp C's long slow drawl, BunB's very Houston accent, Big Boi's Georgian accent
The Midwest with it's huge vocal variety
and the West Coast which also features many diverse vocal types
Tupac grew up on the East Coast, but developed his art in the West
And that's not even mentioning places like Miami, Philly, New England each with their own type of voice and way of speaking. To say that you don't like the way AAVE/Black Accents sound when used musically is a huge generalization, and frankly ignorant and racist, fam. I urge you to at the very least understand why that's a problematic statement, even if you can't find enjoyment from the music being put out.
Edit:
but it feels like when saying not to pass off the genre because of distasteful lyrics in some songs it's often also stated that disliking songs with distasteful lyrics somehow makes you a less competent or worthy listenerHip-Hop is a genre that relies often on metaphor, subtext, and prior knowledge. Lyrics are and often times will be used to represent other things. Many times, and I can legit make a huge list, drugs, sex, and crime are all looked upon negatively but from looking at the song on the surface you wouldn't know that. Hip-Hop is very much a genre that challenges the listen to listen and not just hear the words coming from the MC's mouth.
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First and foremost, thanks for the responses.
For example, there are a few record labels out there headed by African Americans. Such list includes Rick Ross, Birdman and Lil Wayne, Drake, T.I, and Kanye West.
All of those artists-turned-owners are fantastic, and no doubt sign people that have great messages and music, but those names are some of the biggest in the modern industry, particularly Drake and Kanye when it comes to mainstream production, and the only thing that gets played on the radio is "Sex, Money, and Drugs."
From there I guess I can blame radio stations and people who have a poor taste in music, but that isn't held down by solely white people either.
Right, though a good think to keep in mind is that even though these rappers may be record label owners, many of them have to answer to bigger labels/distributors
@Huk
I'm glad that you've taken something away from these threads. I appreciate your openness to understanding a music/culture different than your own.
K, so, I read all that and it was pretty interesting, but there's one thing that bugs me a lot before I get to an overall response
This entire thread is about how hip-hop is art, right? Well, in art, there's no such thing as something being objectively good and the fact that you chose this wording just doesn't feel right
NEways, as with any musical art form, I don't think hip-hop should be above lyrical criticism. You're right when you say that not all hip-hop is about crime and drugs, but when it is, people do have a right to criticize that it is. Personally, I more dislike how the lyrics are sung than what the lyrics actually are. I find the African American ghetto accent to be very displeasing when put in musical form. That doesn't mean I hate the people with that accent or even the accent itself, I just don't enjoy it as music
I don't really have much issue understanding it, at least no more than I do any other type of music, thanks to hanging around my cousins a good bit these past few years. If you'd asked me four years ago I would have thought most hip-hop was gibberish, but I've gotten to see my cousins a lot more lately so it's become much more understandable now
While art is seen as something that is purely subjective, there are definitely cases where music can be and is objectively good based off of musicality alone. No one would argue that Beethoven's 9th
isn't good. They may or may not argue if they like it or not, which is the case with all music, but music is definitely an art where things can have an objective quality to them.I'm gonna ask you to examine the rest of your post before giving it a proper response.
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I haven't completely decided. This thread in particular is mainly about criticisms of the genre and examining them. I do hope to compile a list of posts/threads I plan on writing in the OP of the Album of the Week/General Knowledge thread.
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GHETTO GOSPEL
(Why you don't know shit about Hip-Hop and its language)
Title courtesy of Tupac
Hip-hop is and has always been “A Black Thing” born of Black culture and Black People of the inner city experience. - Paradise (X-Clan, Zulu Nation)I don't think the above except is any secret. Like every other great American form of music (Jazz, Blues, Pop, Rock&Roll) Hip-Hop finds its roots under the decks of slaveships and in Africa. Jazz, Blues, and Rock&Roll all served a purpose. The purpose of being the Negro spiritual for the modern day. Each of them a voice for the disenfranchisedBlack population of America. Each of these voices gentrified and stolen. Enter the Bronx in the 1970's and the role of the Griot (traveling poet, ancient parallel to the modernday rapper) is inherited by kids on the stoops of the Ghetto. Black America, yet again, has struck artistic genius and has given itself another voice. The name of this voice:Hip-HopKeep that word in mind. A voice. The people speaking happen to speak their own dialect of English. This dialect is called African American Vernacular English (AAVE).Which linguists overwhelmingly agree is a language/dialect in its own right due to have a very distinct set of rules governing its usage. It is not slang, nor is it improper Englishwhich is an impression seen in this community and in many other places. This, of course, is linked to racism and anti-blackness.A speaker of AAVE is no less intelligent than those who speak Standard American English, they can damn well have a greater command of the English language thanyou do. Many do. Many display this command over their language along with other artistic merits professionally. You're more than likely familiar with them. They're called"MCs or Rappers"At this point, I'm more than certain that those of you that do not have a favorable view of Hip-hop are thinking that I'm effectively calling critics of the genre the dreaded"R-word" ("gasp how can I be racist? I have a black friend!!"). I'm not. Though I am saying that there is a incredibly high chance that you're unconsciously acting onanti-black ideals thatpermeate every facet of our society. That being said, if you're able to examine what you dislike about the genre and can still look at the genre as a legitimateform of art that is not inferior to other types of art, then more power to you. That being said, there are a few reasons that are often cited as the reason for disliking hip-hopthat are without a shadow of a doubt rooted in anti-blackness. Let's examine some of these reasons and why they aren't legitimate reasons for your dismissal of this great art form.
"It's about drugs, crime, fucking women, and money"Congratulations, if you've said or thought this you've earned the "I enjoy talking out of my ass award". Hip-hop, like any genre has many many many different subjectmatters, but you know that. You're just not fond of, and I love this one "How prevalent and mainstream those topics are". Well, guess what, you only have your friendsand kin to blame for that. (assuming you're white) The commercialization of the game that took place in the 1980s was the cause of an internal schism in Hip-Hop(one that I will examine in depthin another thread). Many rappers opposed the commercialization of the genre for two reasons:- It'd take away from Hip-Hop as the voice of Black people
- Themes of violence and other not-so-savory topics became widespread because it sold to sheltered White suburban audiences
Bear in mind that this does not in anyway make that type of Hip-Hop illegitimate. It is still apart of the genre, and it is definitely still art. This commercialization actually gave
us the great album Straight Outta Compton and many other West Coast classics.
Now, I assume you're asking about artistic integrity and all sorts of shit like that. When you're a disenfranchised youth from the hood, odds are you're not going to shy away from the type of money record labels throw around. Not only that, but you'll find that many rappers, especially those found on many GOAT (greatest of all time) lists will openly criticize this system. Many rappers that don't find mainstream (or critical, or much at all lol) success also criticize and decry those that work within this system. As stated above, however those who do accept money for the type of Hip-Hop that is so often criticized by the uninitiated are not any less legitimate than those who don't. Many simply rap about what they know, because speaking first hand life in the hood ain't easy, and it sure as shit ain't fun. Hedonistic ideas often provide an escape to the grim realities that are ever-present in inner-cities and the hood.
"I just don't understand what they're saying"
Okay and most people can barely understand Bjork, and yet she's hailed as an incredibly talented and influential artist. As I explained earlier, Hip-Hop is more often than not performed in AAVE. If you can't understand the language due to your lack of exposure to Black people, you're not alone. That being said, there are so many resources out there to help you that this just doesn't hold up. Not to mention that listening to the genre (along experiencing other types of Black art which is so painfully underrated despite being among America's best) will help you understand the cultural gap! Hip-Hop provides the ability for non-Black to engage in cultural tourism. Y'all get a glimpse into Black America without having to experience it. (I'll also be touching on how Cultural Tourism can be a negative thing in another thread) People often fear and dislike what they don't understand. Which is why many people are put off by use of certain language in the genre. (Right, Ark?)
"I can't get down to rappers that aren't lyrical/intellectual"
Hip-Hop began as party music.
(August 11, 1973 is Hip-Hop's official birthday)
It may not be for you, but please do not disparage artists that aren't lyrical-spiritual-miracle types, because they're just carrying out the genre as it was. Not to mention, the shit's good more often than not. Like, objectively good. (Source: Beastie Boys)
Outwardly this one can definitely seem much less racially charged, but it definitely can have its roots in the view that AAVE and its speakers are unintelligent, especially as this type of music mostly relies on taking sounds found in the language and giving them a much more musical touch. This is a touchy and fine line, one that I myself am not going to point any fingers towards, but definitely examine why you're not particularly fond (and don't just immediately absolve yourself of anti-blackness. Like, everyone know you think you're not, but read a little and actually examine yourself and the ideas you hold. Perhaps they match up with things I said further up in the post)
Tupac is a perfect example of this, because he wasn't particularly lyrical but was an incredibly intelligent man who got his ideas across. Tupac embodied Hip-Hop like few other have or ever will, and I personally believe that anyone who can understand Tupac's message and just how he went about things will understand the genre AND everything I've spoken about here today.
In conclusion, Hip-Hop is an incredible art form, one I would say is among the best ever conceived. If you find yourself disliking the genre, cool, that's fine, however, examine just why it is you dislike the genre, and ensure that you're not allowing unconscious biases to get in the way. Hip-Hop is a beautiful thing, and even if you don't like it, you can recognize it as art and respect it as such.
Thanks for your time today
Sources for shit along with good reads:List of Essential Hip-Hop albums sorted by region -
Happy birthday, fam. The GOAT reborn user tbqh
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Week 1:
Nas - Illmatic
Description:
Often cited as one of the best hip-hop albums of the '90s, Illmatic is the undisputed classic upon which Nas' reputation rests. It helped spearhead the artistic renaissance of New York hip-hop in the post-Chronic era, leading a return to street aesthetics. Yet even if Illmatic marks the beginning of a shift away from Native Tongues-inspired alternative rap, it's strongly rooted in that sensibility. For one, Nas employs some of the most sophisticated jazz-rap producers around: Q-Tip, Pete Rock, DJ Premier, and Large Professor, who underpin their intricate loops with appropriately tough beats. But more importantly, Nas takes his place as one of hip-hop's greatest street poets -- his rhymes are highly literate, his raps superbly fluid regardless of the size of his vocabulary. He's able to evoke the bleak reality of ghetto life without losing hope or forgetting the good times, which become all the more precious when any day could be your last. As a narrator, he doesn't get too caught up in the darker side of life -- he's simply describing what he sees in the world around him, and trying to live it up while he can. He's thoughtful but ambitious, announcing on "N.Y. State of Mind" that "I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death," and that he's "out for dead presidents to represent me" on "The World Is Yours." Elsewhere, he flexes his storytelling muscles on the classic cuts "Life's a Bitch" and "One Love," the latter a detailed report to a close friend in prison about how allegiances within their group have shifted. Hip-hop fans accustomed to 73-minute opuses sometimes complain about Illmatic's brevity, but even if it leaves you wanting more, it's also one of the few '90s rap albums with absolutely no wasted space. Illmatic reveals a great lyricist in top form meeting great production, and it remains a perennial favorite among serious hip-hop fans. - Allmusic
Lyrics:
http://genius.com/albums/Nas/Illmatic
Do take some of Genius' interpretation with a grain of salt. They're known for overanalysing
In my mind, there is no better album to start this with. Illmatic is heralded by many to be the best Hip-Hop album ever. This album is only 39 minutes in runtime, so it's a very short listen by many standards, but in that 39 minutes is some of the best lyricism and storytelling in the history of the genre. I'll be posting my thoughts and feelings on the album soon, but for now I'll allow Nas to speak for himself.
THE G.O.A.T. - The Greatest Rappers of All Time
in General Discussion
Posted
GOAT (n) -
Acronym standing for Greatest Of All Time. Typically used in Basketball, Hip-Hop, R&B, Soul and Jazz. (Black art forms)
Hip-Hop is by its very nature a competitive art form. Those familiar with the genre may know that early in the genre much of the subject matter was dominated by braggadocio and the ubiquitous "wack MC". Every rapper, whether they want to or not, is thrown into a ring to compete as the greatest. GOATs are easily recognizable and set themselves apart from the competition. Some GOATs from other genres you may recognize are
Michael Jackson (Greatest Pop artist of all time. Holder of Greatest Album of All Time with Thriller)
John Coltrane (Greatest Jazz Artist of All Time)
(Miles Davis has the GOAT Jazz album with Kind of Blue)
Marry J Blige (Greatest R&B artist of All Time)
Marvin Gaye (Greatest Soul Artist of All Time. Arguably the GOAT in all aspects.)
Michael Jordan (Basketball GOAT)
I could go on an on about where these legends fall in their respective genres, but we're here to talk Hip-Hop. (Unless you got beef with Michael/Thriller you can square the fuck up)
I'm gonna go over a list of rappers commonly mentioned as GOATs, give reasons why, and then give my top 10.
We'll go chronologically for the sake of organizing shit:
LL Cool J
Hip-Hop's original lady's man. LL is actually responsible for the term GOAT, believe it or not. He's more often than not at the very least put as an Honorable Mention on most GOAT lists simply because of his impact. He was one of Hip-Hop's first big superstars along with Run of Run D.M.C. Without LL's success it's kinda hard to tell where Hip-Hop would be, which is why he deserves a mention. He helped solidify the genre commercially.
KRS-One
KRS-One is a pillar. He's a beast that's been around since the genre's inception and hasn't stopped. I really wish I could get away with doing a thread for each one of these guys, because he really does deserve his own thread. Criminally Minded WILL be showing up in the other Hip-Hop thread. KRS really got his start after MC Shan decided to rep Queens and its role in the creation of Hip-Hop. Queens, especially Queensbridge, while important to Hip-Hop, are not the birthplace of Hip-Hop. That title goes to the Bronx, and as a Bronx Native KRS took offense to this and decided to retaliate with his own track. KRS won the beef after a brief exchange, and the rest is history.
Rakim
Rakim Allah. God MC. One of the most influential MCs in Hip-Hop history. Rakim was among, if not, the first to write down his raps. He changed the way Hip-Hop is performed lyrically. Hip-Hop is often divided into two periods Pre-Rakim and Post-Rakim. Every MC, lyrically dense or otherwise owes some form of influence to Rakim. There are a few rappers who have the designation "Your favorite rapper's favorite rapper", and Rakim is definitely one of them. Paid in Full by him and his DJ Eric B is an amazing album that I cannot wait to share with y'all.
Big Daddy Kane
Pimpin' ain't easy, but Big Daddy Kane sure made it seem like it was. Big Daddy Kane along with Rakim definitely helped change the way lyrics were talked in the game. This guy here is one of those rappers that when his name enters the discussion, you've gotta sit down and rethink everything you were talking about previously. The rapper that I myself consider to be the GOAT calls BDK one of his favorites, and let me tell you, most of the old guard and guys on this list probably think the same.
Kool G Rap
"Hearin' me is like hearin' G Rap in his prime" - Jay-Z
If this ain't a testament to G Rap's skills, I really don't know what is. A man able to rap like Jay's level almost a full decade before he did is one that deserves a mention in any GOAT discussion. Kool G Rap pioneered Mafioso rap. Dude's like Nas, Big, and Jay, all of whom find themselves on this list, all owe their existence to this man right here. Kool G Rap much like the two men above him also aided in the pioneering of multisyllabic rapping (granted Rakim is really the one who deserves the most credit).
Ice Cube
Stop thinking about "Are We There Yet?" and its sequels. Clear your mind of his acting career. Seriously. Ice Cube definitely worked and earned his spot on this list for being one of the best gangster rappers ever. His work with N.W.A. was legendary, and his solo work can go toe to toe with most albums in the genre. AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted is an amazing album, and Death Certificate often times find itself on many "greatest albums" lists in the top 10. Crazy to think that the man now known for family movies used to be one of Hip-Hop's hardest gangsters.
Scarface
BEST SOUTHERN RAPPER EVER. FUCKING FIGHT ME. Scarface's worth with the Geto Boys, most notably We Can't Be Stopped is L E G E N D A R Y.
His solo work can go up damn near every rapper in the game and come out on top. Mr. Scarface, The Diary, and the Fix are all albums that any head wanting to get acquainted with Southern Hip-Hop must absolutely listen to. Face put Houston on the map as far as Hip-Hop is concerned.
"He is what Face is to Houston" - Jay Z
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIS3KouPdgM
Nas
Nasty Nas. Escobar. The artist behind the greatest album in the entire genre: Illmatic. That alone should put him in the contention for the title of GOAT. Illmatic is the second-most influential album in the genre behind Paid in Full. If you were an MC before Illmatic dropped. You came out of that record knowing you had to step it up. The game wasn't the same anymore, and every rapper out there knew it. Nas has other classics under his belt, but he is mostly like a Citizen Kane figure in Hip-Hop. Debuted with arguably the greatest in his medium and was never able to touch it. Nas does, however also have the best diss record in the genre with Ether.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKjj4hk0pV4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aznJJir__oE
The Notorious B.I.G.
Big Poppa. The GOAT flow in Hip-Hop. Beautiful. No one can, and maybe ever will, glide over a beat like Biggie. Though he was taken from us too soon, his two albums Ready To Die and Life After Death are both landmarks in the genre. There really is little I can say about Big that hasn't been said.
Rest in Peace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R677vZLimPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMbELEUfmIA
Ghostface Killah
Best Wu-tang clan member in my mind, without a doubt. Maybe not at their debut (It was clearly Method Man), but other the years Walley Champ has proven that he's on top. Ghostface Killah, Pretty Toney, Sun God, Ghostdini, Iron Man, Tony Stark. Ghost, much like his Wu brethern goes by many names, but the quality remains the same. Ghost has hands in 3 of Hip-Hop's top 10 albums with Enter the 36 Chambers, Only Built 4 Cuban Lynx, and Supreme Clientele. If that doesn't put him in the running, the the rest of his discography does. He STILL releases music about every year or so, and it's never anything short of great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaIAeO2IiZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmSebP_e1TU
Tupac
Another legend taken before his time. Tupac, while not the most technically skilled rapper managed to make you feel with every single track. 7day Theory, Don Killuminati, and All Eyez On Me are all MUST listens for any Hip-Hop head. Pac's work ethic was so great during his life that his family still has material to release posthumous albums (don't listen to them.). Tupac's lineage comes from great Black Panther members, and let me tell you, had he lived he would've done their legacy justice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wBTdfAkqGU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb1ZvUDvLDY
Jay-Z
The rapper, who in my mind IS the GOAT. Jay's got classics on top of classics, he influenced an entire generation of rappers, and his numbers are unreal with 13 consecutive #1 albums. Jay-Z will let you know that he's the best to ever do it time and time again. If you can think about a current rapper out there making music right now, they fall into two categories. They either want to be in Jay-Z's position, or the ARE Jay-Z. There's a reason why after he "retired" rappers came out swinging to "claim Hov's position" as greatest rapper alive/of all time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuaGcm8yqzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2DafHjZDtg
Honorable Mentions:
RZA, the genius behind the Wu-tang clan.
AZ one of the few pure lyricists that stays actually making good music
GZA, the genius. Go listen to Liquid Swords.
Eminem. Excellent in his prime. Sadly, hasn't made a good album in a over decade.
Andre 3000 a god MC. Unfortunately doesn't have to solo discography to back it up.
Black Thought hasn't dropped a bad verse ever. Unfortunately he has no solo discography.
Big L died much too soon, but no doubt amazing and arguably would've claimed the thrown had he lived.
Big Pun much like L definitely would've been grabbing at the grown had they not died.
Thanks for stickin' around and reading about some of Hip-Hop's Titans. There are many legends in Hip-Hop, but only few can touch the status of GOAT. I'll probably add a few guys thar at least deserve a mention when I'm less tired. Those with a decent familiarity, I'd love to hear your Top5/10s.