Eviora

To steal an analogy from the Joker, Trump is like a dog who was chasing a car. He doesn't know what to do with it now that he's caught it.

What's next? Obamacare is awful and should be repealed. Some parts of Obamacare are worth keeping, The Electoral College is undemocratic. The Electoral College is brilliant. We'te gonna build a huge wall. We're gonna build a picket fence. We're gonna repeal gay marriage. Gay marriage is already settled. Pick an issue, flip a coin.

o.o Lelouch is my anime crush. Just saying. ^.~

Watch Game of Thrones. You'll get used to the blood.

@Chase I'm glad you're not looking for a quarrel with me, because (having currently read only the first line of your post) I'm going to completely ignore any responses related to my feelings concerning Trump voters, like I should have done in this topic in the first place. I feel I've covered that ground more than enough and I don't think there's much to add. --- Okay, read it all. The #1 flaw in arguments people offer me in favor of not dying is that they assume I'm as noble as all my rhetoric. In reality, I'm selfish to the core, just like most people. As far as I'm concerned, the bulk of this country (I'm including those who couldn't get off their asses to vote) just spit in my face, including many members of my own community. You know that thing they say about a woman scorned? Yeah. As a feely type, I don't actually make my decisions based on the logical arguments I spew. I make them based on how I feel, and I feel betrayed. So when I consider my last sanctuary, the one thing they can't take from me, I don't really concern myself with how others would feel about it. Killing myself would solve the problem for me. If that's cowardice, then my action would only serve to confirm that I was exactly who I thought I was. Of course, it's not an action I would necessarily recommend to others in a similar situation. People differ in all sorts of ways. How much do you enjoy life? How much pain can you take before it starts to break you? For me, the answers are both "not much". But others may be different. Ultimately, it's just a matter of preference. And... you're wrong. I'm not good at fighting, I'm just good at arguing, As we've seen time and again, it's not a terribly helpful skill. And I'm also good at hiding, running away, building a defensive shell around myself that keeps everyone else out. I'm better at that than ever now, and worse than ever at trusting. And I don't need what you think I need. I can make my wall unbreakable, stifle my loneliness forever, and do it all on my own. Of course, I don't really want to. But it's my safety net. My assurance that things can only get so bad.

That's an extremely difficult question. I find myself relating with many quite different characters in varying ways. For instance, I have a lot in common with the HBO version of Arya Stark - but some of her traits don't fit me at all, like her tomboyishness. So, overall, I think my answer has to be Victorique de Blois from Gosick.

No, I was condoning Hillary's behavior by voting for her. Consider her pro-choice stance on abortion. I do not believe the earlier stage fetuses count as "human" because they lack the mental traits I associate with being human. But if I'm wrong somehow, then the deaths of all the aborted fetuses that Hillary allowed for would be in part on my hands the same as they would be on Hillary's. I may be a coward, but I am not so frightened that I cannot accept that reality. If you voted for racist and homophobic policies, I'm not blindly calling you a racist/homophobe. I'm calling you that knowing what you did. I have no desire to "open up my world" if what that actually means is not holding those who have hurt me responsible for their actions.

Hillary was never convicted of anything with regards to her emails. But given the alternative (a total bigot) Hillary could have posted her emails on Facebook and I would have found her preferable. Anyone with legitimate respect for minorities would not be willing to compromise those people's rights. It doesn't seem fair to declare from on high that anyone is a criminal. I thought in this country we had that whole innocent until proven guilty thing going on. But even if she had been convicted, again, yes, I endorse someone who is criminally careless over someone who is morally bankrupt. In that case, I would be taking a risk with sensitive information, I admit it. Better that than someone who is purposefully malicious. --- Believe it or not, I have already had this conversation with the few who are truly close to me. It would make them very sad if I died, but they would understand that it wasn't their fault. The sad truth is, they can't save me from being treated like shit if the government decides I should be.

If Americans didn't discriminate against minorities and women in the first place, there would be no need for identity politics. This country has a long history of treating certain groups unfairly. Of course the sort of person who supports those oppressive policies would blame us for standing up for ourselves.

@Dobby Before we were comparing voting Trump to suicide, not to ISIS. And it's basically just your opinion that voting Trump is less personal. I take it extremely personally because his likely actions would reduce me to a demographic and abuse me accordingly. You're right, ISIS does have cooks. And (unless they are being forced) I do hold them fully responsible for the atrocities they support. Maybe they mean no harm, maybe they're just doing what they love, but that doesn't change that fact that they're contributing to some quite terrible actions. The same is true (to a lesser extent) with Trump supporters. I'm sure they have their reasons, reasons they think are good, but that doesn't lessen the harm they're about to have helped cause. Incidentally, my "actions above all else" attitude is not strictly logic. When it comes to morality, you'll find pretty much nothing is supported purely by logic. Empathy is the bigger piece at play. That's basically how our society is run - logic and empathy are interwoven in such a way that we want to avoid certain things, understand that others also want to avoid them, so agree to bad doing those things to anyone. The trouble in this case is that one group doesn't mind if the bad things happen to minorities as long as they themselves are protected, and people buy into their deflections and vote accordingly. So you're correct in saying this is an emotional matter. Emotion is essential to our desire to stand up for each other. @Alistair Yeah, that failed spectacularly. It's mostly my fault, I suppose. I'm really bad at not taking the bait, especially when it comes to matters I'm passionate about. @Telos If we're being honest, I barely value myself at all. If Trump would do me the courtesy of outright killing me rather than putting me through some legislative nightmare he'd worry me a lot less.

@Kurotsune ??? Despite what I think is sarcasm, that is indeed a valid means of logical argument, and you provided a citation saying so yourself. If you think my comparison is a strawman, feel free to show me why.

No, you did assume something, you just are not acknowledging the logical consequences of the things you said. I made a comparison between hurting people by killing yourself and hurting people by voting for a monster. You said it wasn't a proper comparison (with no evidence) then said "anyone with the ability to understand emotional context can see the difference there." Since I do not see a meaningful difference, it follows that you're saying I don't have the ability to understand emotional context. If I killed myself, that could hurt a handful of people very, very badly. A vote for Trump contributes to policies that could hurt millions of people quite badly. Sad to say, but the sheer numbers involved make voting for Trump an overwhelming more damaging action. The truth is, my life doesn't matter so much. As for that quote, I'm happy to back it up with examples you might find difficult argue with. For instance, members of ISIS have probably been so twisted by religion that they legitimately believe they are doing the right thing. They hope to serve their supposedly infinitely good god as best they can. And those intentions don't make their horrific actions one bit more excusable. They are terrible people because they do terrible things. By the way, that's not to say voting for Trump is as bad as participating in an ISIS terrorist attack. People very rarely understand that when I use these extreme examples, what I'm actually doing is setting up a logical precedent establishing that their defenses are invalid. If ISIS members should not be excused for doing awful things because they meant well, then why should Trump supporters be excused for less heinous but still harmful actions because they thought they were doing the right thing?

You don't think voting to suppress my rights might emotionally wound me? It does. You can assume I don't understand emotional context if that makes this easier for you to reconcile, but that doesn't make it so. Maybe I just see things differently than you do. I value actions over words and excuses. Anyone can offer nice words. Maybe, in their hearts, they genuinely mean them. But, to quote Batman Begins, "It doesn't matter what's underneath. It's what you do that defines you."

No, I don't act as if Trump voters had me in mind. I don't care what they had in mind. I care about what they did. You don't think a vote for Trump hurts anyone near you? Do you know any women? Any LGBT people? The answer to the first is "yes", and unless you're unfairly counting only people who are geographically near you, the answer to the second is the same. You're on Reborn, after all. I have no clue how or whether you personally voted, but those truths are the same for anyone here who voted Trump. They have hurt people, people close to them, and more than a few. They've also hurt people who are complete strangers on the other side of the country. I have no idea why you wouldn't think that also counts.