Felicity

Most chose that for reasons that were addressed by Ame or because they do enjoy grinding. And you yourself have said you can't satisfy everyone. Also whilst ideally levels will be raised, I do recognise that they won't be completely gifted to us.

Mmk, this is digressing into the Axe topic which was ended for a reason. Back on topic, still no refutation for how option B gives more choice/options to play to everybody over option A

I'd say this is quite good. What with the later acquisition of emolga. As discussed in the Axe thread though, Tnamo would be quite good early on, but that's going off topic.

Elektrike was a big offender for early op-nes in "The Axe" thread, right? It was a very strong early electric type that kinda drew away from others. Therefore, axed

It's probs axed by now at this point anyway.

Makuhita > Scrafty Most of the birds > Tropius Drillbur/most wild mons in general > Solrock/lunatone in tanzan. Yamask/Duskull > Misdreavus who, unless given Dbond/ Nasty plot isn't too god of a sp attacker. You may as well take one of the walls that you get earlier on at a decent level. These are off the top of my head.

So, moves learned by a prior Evo? That is an issue, especially in the case of babies/Freindship based evos. However, the only mons I can see suffering from this is Magby/Elekid who if raised level would suffer far more, though they could just use another HS if you really needed a move. Most friendship mons can be found in their baby forms anyway. That said, this is the awkward part of it all. Deciding by each case what level/movesets etc the mons should have. There are a LOT of events that would be hit if option b was taken. Again, why not change the requirements to get access to a mon? Grinding can't be the only way to stop it all. What about adding extra requirements to even trigger an event like weather conditions/ Badge requirements, perhaps only appearing when X pokemon line has had their pokedex entries filled out, if possible? That would certainly be a preferable alternative because that both circumvents grinding and promotes diversity.

[Paul] "Well, it seems our daily allotted time to deal with that BS is coming to a close" Klive sighed. Xe hadn't ended up picking up Lunch. Maybe Xe and Robert could make a detour and pick up some food later. "I have thankfully avoided most of that BS. Privileges of a self-proclaimed loner. That said, I wish you luck in your endeavours" live tried half-heartedly to put on an air of extravagance, giving a lazy flick of xyr hand in an attempt at a flourish before standing up to see if there were any snacks on sale xe could stuff in their mouth before next lesson.

Ok, it's established that grinding can be considered bonding. I've argued this in the past myself, it's a reflection of the training that you actually see in the anime and whatnot. That said, how is the highlighted text an argument hilda? You're wrong in that pokemon is praised for the wide variety and choice one normally gets when making their team of 6. The combinations are nigh endless. However, that choice is taken away when a player is discouraged by grinding. If they -want- it sure, they'll fight for it but I for one find that a bitch which really isn't necessary, especially as it is now where grinding is forced upon a player who wants a pokemon. Furthermore, isn't making certain mons better than others a plus? Influencing usage like that can be ideal for providing players with team options. If a pokemon is better, make the requirements to get it harder, don't make it level 15 to fight level 60s in an hour or two. Also, could you elaborate on your point in damaging wild pokemon use? I don't understand what you mean by that. If you're suggesting that someone will skip over wild mons because of repel, then that's another choice they make. If they do it because they know of an event, then that's fine too, it's a choice. That said, this won't happen from the PoV of a new player because they won't know of those events at all.

Jakler, the convo could have just ended there to be honest iirc. N real need to force a new pot if you don't want to.

There is an obvious difference between winning trainer battles and artificially grinding. It's one thing to just play through the games story, it's another to go out to, say, the Aventurine bulls, one of the most popular grinding spots before ep 13/4. I agree that grinding when done right can be fine in spots. Two notable points in time when grinding is exceptionally easier is when you are paired up with victoria/Aya in their respective areas. The immediate healing and aid makes grinding ten times easier t the point where I actively use Aya as a checkpoint of sorts to raise up younger members. That said, what about when you are facing Charlotte and you need a new mon? You don't have the luxury of such an accomodating grind and a new player will likely have to step back and break the games story pacing to grind. Oh look, that piplup looks useful- level 15. You're supposed to be fighting to get waterfall to rescue Titania and Amaria, naaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh, let's just stop and murder the wildlife. Also the wildlife aren't pushovers. Let me tell you, Roserade relies on trainer battles to stay on par in your team during aventurine. It can't reliably take a thrash from either bull and it can't touch the numerous bugs in the area. So, no decent grinding there. Ok, so you deal with grinding much the same way I do. Thing is, the hours don't fly away for me. Furthermore, here's the thing I really don't understand to address the breeding thing, again I ask why not invest the tiny bit of extra time? The argument is the same to me as someone refusing to run a 120 meter race and would rather do 100 meters whist you insist that others who don't want to race at all must do the 100 meters. It just seems daft to me. Furtermore, it's not like you're chain-breeding for a perfect artifical pokemon, just grab one egg and take it, go. You need not hatch 6 eggs IF YOU DON'T WANT TO. Again, I bring up this idea that those who can grind do still have more options than those who don't like grinding. Those who don't like grinding, provided option A is taken, are effectively punished far more severely (a forced 1/1.5 hours which is still triple/double the breeding time) than if option B was taken and an extra optional 20/30 minutes to get an egg. I've seen no argument against the idea that Option B gives more choice for EVERYONE, only digressions into the idea that breeding is impersonal for stated reasons and grinding has more pros. That is fairly well addressed, grinding is not the only way to bond, EV training can be made easier, the argument relies on this arbitrary idea that it just doesn't feel right, and I can understand this I also build up bonds with my pokemon in-game but itcan't be dealt with because of the emotional nature, whereas the issues facing those who dislike grinding are logical and easily resolved to the trivial detriment of the players who enjoy grinding. It really does seem unfair to me to insist that some must invest time they would rather not when they so easily don't have to. simply because some people don't want to invest an extra 20 minutes/ don't feel like they'd be attached to their pokemon without it. EDIT: I realise this tone might seem quite rude/chastising, I really don't mean it that way

Either way you are investing time into a pokemon. How do you dislike 20 minutes of breeding to 2/3 hours of grinding? Again, you're investing time anyway and breeding could prove as beneficial as Ev training, trying to get deal Natuer/Ivs without soft-resetting. Time is the issue with those who dislike grinding, something that the people who are willing to grind with have no issue with if they are willing to grind. If one group gets an OPTIONAL 20 extra minutes to take away 2/3 hours of MANDATORY training for the other, that is an ideal compromise no?

So, you're saying you don't want to waste time and effort when it's not necessary? That's exactly the reason I want higher levels. Think for a second, with access to mons like Magcargo with magma armor that makes it easier to hatch and access to a bike, hatching is really quite quick (15 minutes, maybe?) in comparison to 3 hours of solid training. It's quite unfair really to insist that one group should deal with the situation when making the compromise of 15/20 minutes can make many people a lot happier. Because the 3 hours you'd take to grind evidently isn't the issue from what I can tell, it's that extra 15/20 minutes. Hell, why is that extra time breeding an issue? in for a penny, in for a pound, you're gonna be investing time anyway, what's a little more time?

So I think Paul and Klives convo is essentially over. I think

I suppose the one other benefit I can see to grinding is tha it's kinda Zen for some people. I can't say I enjoy it in pokemon but in a few other games which are more fluid (Kingdom hearts) grinding an be quite relaxing. I'm especially partial to listen to a podcast or music whilst grinding in a game. How applicable this is to Reborn though needs an assessment of the gameplay because as stated prior, grinding isn't really accommodating in reborn or pokemon in general imo.

It's actually Kuro and Alices love child.

I have my own take on your Deck Tom but it does rely on a basic premise which kinda screws me if it is prevented (Though I have countermeasures in that case too)

Why wouldn't they lower their mons level? The argument is that these people want to raise these pokemon based on the premise that time spent means they feel like the mon was earned no? This can be done by breeding a new mon and then raising it. It provides a solution for both players, one needn't grind (much) and the other can feel like they earned the mon, if the event itself didn't do the trick.

Ok, so then the game fails in encouraging a player to use a pokemon? Again, it only discourages players from using it. Let's assume that both types of player wants to use it, if it's at a low-level then it still restricts and frustrates one kind of player. On the other-hand, if it was a higher level a player can willingly invest time to raise a pokemon without restricting another player. EDIT: Direct from the OP, grinding should be a question, it's one of Ames goals to reduce it's neccessity : p

I'm afraid i'll have to have multiple configurations of my deck now. I daresay it's a bit of a one-trick pony.

I'm more inclined to B (Even though for some reason the poll wants me to vote on another question which doesn't exist) There's the argument that high-leveled babies aren't a logical thing. In some cases, it's true. A high-leveled Magby/Elekid is ridiculous, they are literally babies. In the games context, the only possible reason they would be high-leveled is because the Magby/Elekid were used to infinitely power an appliance. However, there's several instances of trainers having NFE pokemon to answer the question of "Who has been ramming everstones down the mons throat?" The first that comes to mind is the goomy one can find on route 2 with the clown, or the Bagon another trainer uses on the route (I think). In the very game we are discussing, not just the anime or poke-universe in general, there are examples of NFE mons at a high level. Furthermore, as Dondon has explained, it is more beneficial for more people to have those higher-leveled pokemon because it is quite possible for a player who likes grinding to experience that without stripping other grind-hating players of a choice. Some people have argued that they bond via working with their pokemon. I'mma give you an exmple of how I bonded with a pokemon without grinding. Bunnelby before Coreys Gym. I caught that quickly, made sure it had Huge power and used it to fight the nearest trainers which got it to be just under-leveled. The rabbit put in work against ZEL and I immediately fell in love with it. Note: I did not grind with it. it was a very recent pick up and yet I liked and felt as close to it as I did my typhlosion, because it pulled through, it was a useful memeber of my party that did his job at a crucial moment. Grinding isn't the only way to get attached to a mon. Therefore, it can only be considered an argument in specific cases. For the argument that if someone -wants- to use a mon, why make it difficult for them? You're still effectively punishing someone for wanting to use something. Grinding doesn't have to be the cost of using it. When considering how large an audience this game has, why not tick all the boxes and give everyone the possibility of using mon rather than just tick a few boxes and subsequently punish the rest of the audience? As for egg moves, I honestly don't know. I think it'd make more mons usable because some just aren't viable even at a decent level.

I refuse. Pokatheist

I was hoping this joke woudn't be made...

Claude was really struggling now. He hated how today was going. First he has to deal with the idea of the tournament and facing people competitive sides, which was as fun as it could be bad to be fair, then there was all of the shit with Mareek and Evan and all of that Drama and now there was all of this with the new woman. Claude hated soap operas for a reason. The young coordinator did not feel like he could cut the head off the monstrous tension between the two elder trainers, so he couldn't try resolving it like he did between Danielle and Evan earlier, he just felt too intimidated. Still, he had to try, right? "Err, please, can we all just calm down? Throwing insults around is one thing but when pokemon that have the power to kill come out with the intention to fight, I get a little worried..." Claude didn't know much about water types. However, he did recall something about how the titanic turtles cannons can shred through solid steel plates. That was not good.

@Zerron I'd say Avalugg. He kinda fits in your team because, whilst your team has a lot of bulk to it, you don't have that concept of a pure fortress of defense. Plus the idea of the icy, solid fortress to fall-back on has so many developmental prospects that even I can think of. I'm sure you could do more with the relationship. It'd be far more interesting for me to read than just mareek raging over a slaking.