Swimming95

I am in and signups are now closed, will post brackets in a moment

Sounds good... I love board games :3

Sounds fun

Good luck with this kiozo Luckily, I do have enough wifi on vacation to check in and say how awesome you are for running it this week Good luck to everyone

YAY, I might be on friday

I won't be there

I am in

I am sorry but the tournament ended already

AND CONGRATS TO KAMINA FOR WINNING... SEE YOU NEXT WEEK AND STAY WARM

http://challonge.com/winteriscoming SIGNUPS OVER

SIGNUPS ARE NOW OPEN AND Signing up

Winter is coming. For too long we have enjoyed Summer's bliss and the hard snow is yet upon us once again. As the warmth we have gotten used to fades, the chill in the air reminds us to be fearful of the cold dark unknown. This weekend's theme is an ice monotype tournament. All ice type pokemon that are not Uber are eligible. Otherwise, same rules apply as normal. If you need to check anything, http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2571 will have everything you need. But remember! Signups will start at 7pm EST, and end at 8pm EST! [subject to change based on entrants]

You have two thundurus's... I agree that that is a good counter... the prankster variant is nice though isn't *as* effective if manaphy already has a calm mind up but thats pretty moot right now. Something I don't love about your position is that most of those "counters" involve a scarf as they hurt you as much as it helps you. You are locked into one move and they are highly predictable to spot. Plus, you need an assured OHKO in that case to be of much use. Acid armor is very viable and it would make manaphy pretty good: rest, scald, acid armor, calm mind is a nice stall set imho as it would shut down both special and physical attackers, plus scald does damage is boosted by calm mind and rain and stab. Rotom isn't neutral against grass... not sure where that came from, and ok... scarfs might break manaphy but they are a pretty big double edge sword Excadrill certainly doesn't get the free switch in you think, excadrill needs sand as much as manaphy needs rain. However, excadrill is much frailer, slower (in neutral weather) and probably won't OHKO manaphy before it dies. Bulky waters are much more of a check than a counter. Manaphy can learn energy ball and it is a common variant and bulky waters don't know as many effective moves against manaphy thus making them unable to counter well. Kingdra is meh, draco meteor is less of a counter than outrage is due to the sp. attack drop and that manaphy often runs calm mind. Ludicolo might work as a counter... but primarly, I owuld love to find non weather counters and resist the urge to counter weather with more weather. Out of the pokemon you have listed, only thundurus-T keeps its counter status. As far as I know on here, we don;t have much of a stats to use which would be really nice if we wanted a trial. Personally, I definitely think that manaphy would be too powerful to try as a trial. Plus, trials aren't usually as good of indicators imho...

Mew is only OU here? I thought it was lower than that.. the problem with mew is that while it can do almost anything...it suffers from "anything it can do, others can do better" syndrome. Also, pretty sure manaphy can NOT learn baton pass...unless you mean baton passed to but that isn't too good of a comment as a lot of pokemon are awesome when baton passed to

As I said, scald is a probably better alternative to surf as it lessens the threat from physical attackers Again, an argument for why manaphy isn't good in ubers is so incredibly moot that you might as well not be posting... it isn't about how manaphy fares in ubers, only about how it fares in OU Tyrantitar definitely can't take surf "for days," and I doubt it would survive well if it even got up 1 tail glow Yes, terakion would be a good counter... 1 pokemon and 1 set... 80-90% is good, if we are running acid armor, it won't do enough but that is also one set on manaphy's side. But, 80-90% still allows a rest to let terakion lower its defenses and sp. defenses to get a nice attack in or switch out (and terakion would do the same) Ferrothorn is also a nice pokemon ot switch in on but if it gets burned, its pretty useless. Rotom-W is ok, granted not for calm mind sets Rain is pretty much a given with manaphy and I agree without rain, it isn't as good... But weather inducers are much more of a check than a counter to manaphy. Do not forget that the other person can switch back into their politioad as easily as you can switch into your ninetails. Weather is not a perfect counter for weather. Also, stealth rocks alone won't do much to manaphy as its major ability involves healing...

I definitely agree with what you said conor though ask that we not bring in the sampling bias of only considering those who post. When you are building your team, you need to be ready for anything and everything and if you cannot understand the strengths and weaknesses of your team, then I am sorry but you are not that good of a teambuilder in my eyes. A skilled player should NOT be able to beat an unskilled player 100% of the time, anyone can beat anyone and imho it is proven pretty often. The metagame thrives on the combination of luck and skill and the fact that you cannot prepare for everything. You can make this analogy to chess but it is a tiny bit more obtuse and doesn't really help in this situation... we are not playing chess but if you want, I wouldn't mind playing some games Luck is just as much a challenge for both sides and evasion is not reliable. you look at it as hitting isn't reliable? think it of guarenteed missing isn't reliable. Or you could try not letting an opponent set up... thats always good

Umm... manaphy is also devastating with calm mind to add to its bulk, not only used as a sweeper. It does have acid armor if you prefer Manaphy can also use energy ball, taking away from your idea of using bulky waters to counter skymin is banned in OU and shaymin doesn't have any boosters + its typing to make it as viable Same with victini, v-create lowers its defenses and speed so you aren't likely to get hit twice. SR and the fact that most of the metagame's typing works against it keep it from rising. Also, I am sorry but you are very mistaken on your claim about weather. And using the "top 10 on the ladder" as your evidence for that is very misleading and quite frankly not a good estimator. I do appreciate you laying out a well-formed argument like that so I will take the time to address all of the other things you pointed out Natural cure isn't that amazing, shaymin isn't physical so burn doesn't do too much damage, toxic is well, toxic and would be "reset" upon switching back in and paralyze isn't as useful on a not as fast pokemon. Sleep is sleep Iguess... fine, one status. Hydration is much better as it does not require the turn to move out and the turn to switch back in, rest is an auto full restore which is insanely useful as you need to have a guarenteed 1 or 2 KO in order to beat it. On that note, it makes scald even more useful as it burns the opponent and thus requiring an even stronger pokemon to beat it. If the calm mind set is used, good luck finding a physical attacker that can beat it. And again, lol at thinking that rain needs something like manaphy to balance itself. Whilst I do not think weather is OP, I know that there are many who do. Considering that not everyone, certainly not all of the good battlers, ladder, it isn't a good indicator.

One thing to note is that tier discussions do NOT depend on the tier it is leaving for the most part. just because something does not work well in ubers does in any way shape or form justify putting something too broken in OU. Please remember this when discussing. Manaphy cannot learn baton pass >.>

Definitely not for OU... hydration on it is amazing It is more bulky than vaporeon ftr, has access to both offensive and defensive moves and thus would become a major threat

Same, also I run aerial ace >.> Either way, evasion is a gimmick... it takes luck to use and in the long run, is not as viable of a strategy as you think.

I don't know if he was talking about an alternative to the league as in officially or as in unofficial. Personally, I agree with roo about the problems of making it on the same level as the official league. that being said, I would love to see it as a sort of side thing :3

I'm in