Etesian Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 As for Noivern....eh. It's Speed is pretty good, but everything else is mediocre IMO. It gets some neat moves, it has it's uses, so I guess you could keep it in your rotation, but I wouldn't choose Noivern over anything listed up there^^. I'd actually say Archeops is a better Noivern than Noivern, just a slightly slower than Noivern than Noivern. Even it's Dragon STAB is inferior to Archeops Dragon Claw. Sure, it's a tad weaker, but only Dragon is weak to Dragon, so Archeops is better of using Dragon moves because it's not weak to t hem. I wouldn't take it over Archeops Durant is actually more powerful. Hustle increases it's Attack stat by 50%, which essentially means it has 190 Base Attack, compared to Archeops' 140. Durant also has more resistances and is actually capable of taking physical hits, unlike Archeops (especially if we keep in mind Defeatist exists). Although neither takes at-least-neutral special attacks too well. I'd actually say Bug is more useful than Flying. Still, Archeops is quite amazing as well. I would've have a really tough time against rain-less Charlotte without mine. You'd be fine with having either in your team while the other waits for it's chance, as backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Uh, no. Noivern is better at using dragon moves 'cause it gets STAB, that's just common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Uh, no. Noivern is better at using dragon moves 'cause it gets STAB, that's just common sense. Yeah, they'd be stronger because of STAB, but 1)not a whole lot stronger because of Archeops high attack (no EV lvl100 Noivern's Dragon Pulse does 102-120 HP damage to level 100 no EV Audino, while no EV lvl 100 Archeops does 84-104 HP damage to the same Audino) 2)you'd mostly be using Dragon attacks on Dragons. Those same Dragons can mostly likely OHKO Noivern with a Dragon STAB of their own. Archeops stands a much higher chance to live a Dragon move than Noivern, letting it use 2 Dragon Claws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Archeops is frail, Noivern is frail, neither is going to take the hit well, the super effective doesn't matter here. Meanwhile the STAB on dragon pulse is amplified by the super effective bonus, widening the distance between the two and increasing the envelope of an OHKO by a good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Archeops is frail, Noivern is frail, neither is going to take the hit well, the super effective doesn't matter here. Meanwhile the STAB on dragon pulse is amplified by the super effective bonus, widening the distance between the two and increasing the envelope of an OHKO by a good deal. Yeah, that is a point. Archeops is more likely to live, but both likely have a 90%+ chance to be OHKO'd and there's also the slight extra speed. Although, like I showed above, it's not stronger by a lot, Noivern's Dragon Pulse is a bit stronger. But overall usefulness is a factor there as well, if you have a Noivern for the Dragon Gym, neat, but I wouldn't train one if I had an Archeops at a good level, if it's just for that, might as well stick with that Archeops' DC then. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the STAB being amplified because such modifiers stack. Archeops Dragon Claw if super-effective has 80x2 BP, while Noivern's Dragon Pulse has 85x2x1.5, the last part being the STAB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hmm, what I meant by that was that dragon pulse is 85 bp. With STAB it's 127.5 bp. That means the STAB bonus gives 42.5 bp. When you factor in the super effective modifier that bonus is also multiplied, to 85 bp. Effectively because Noivern's dragon pulse is stronger to begin with, the distance between the two is larger because its super effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 According to this and several other sources I've seen, the STAB bonus is always 1.5, doesn't matter whether it's Super-effective or not. There's even an example in Reborn itself, in the Onyx Trainers' School in a book. It says that if Venonat used Confusion on Croagunk, Confusion would have 200 BP, while a Kadabra's Confusion would have 300 BP, x1.5 more damage due to STAB. That would mean SE Dragon Pulse from Noivern is 85x2x1.5=255 BP while Archeops' SE DC would have 160 BP. Looks like quite a difference, but if we add physical/special attack stats to the mix and check how much damage each would do to a foe with equal defenses such as Audino, as we see way above, it's really not that much of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I never denied the fact that the stab bonus is always 1.5x... I'm not gonna bother with this any further though, I've given my opinion, and its too much work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I never denied the fact that the stab bonus is always 1.5x... I'm not gonna bother with this any further though, I've given my opinion, and its too much work. Ah, then I misunderstood part of your post, my bad. I just wasn't sure if I got that Audino point across, which shows the power similarity. But yeah, this is done then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samson1433 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Durant is actually more powerful. Hustle increases it's Attack stat by 50%, which essentially means it has 190 Base Attack, compared to Archeops' 140. Durant also has more resistances and is actually capable of taking physical hits, unlike Archeops (especially if we keep in mind Defeatist exists). Although neither takes at-least-neutral special attacks too well. I'd actually say Bug is more useful than Flying. Still, Archeops is quite amazing as well. I would've have a really tough time against rain-less Charlotte without mine. You'd be fine with having either in your team while the other waits for it's chance, as backup. A little addition to your recommended durant moveset. Hone claws makes it the perfect sweeper. I got hone claws by breeding skorupi>dwebble(level up to learn rock slide)>durant so you end up with a durant that has hone claws, rock slide, x scissor and iron head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 A little addition to your recommended durant moveset. Hone claws makes it the perfect sweeper. I got hone claws by breeding skorupi>dwebble(level up to learn rock slide)>durant so you end up with a durant that has hone claws, rock slide, x scissor and iron head. reborn shot.png That's a great set as well. Although it depends on what you're going for, now that Gym leaders' teams have EVs as well. I was thinking of taking advantage of Trick Room to dish out damage for the 4 turns it lasts, but if you have something like a 252EV Speed Durant, a Hone Claws set works just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Am Drag Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Thanks for the info. Durant it is. I got so much breeding to do now. Also, do you guys think that I did the right thing by choosing Heliolisk over Magnezone. I choose Heliolisk because it has more variety it terms of attacks. Heliolisk does have less sp att than Magnezone, but it has better speed. One downside would be that Heliolisk does not have as many resistances as Magnezone. It does have less weaknesses than Magnezone though. Anyways, off to breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Depends on the situation/foe's typing. Magnezone is bulkier, but if you set set up sunlight, Heliolisk is quite a bit more powerful, not to mention it's varied movepool. You've already got 3 bulky Pokemon in Swampert, Scrafty and Reuniclus, so I'd say extra power is more needed. But out of sunlight, it's attacks are weaker than Magnezone's, but the variety of attack types is still there, so the typing matters. Heliolisk with Surf would be more useful than Magnezone in a Ground Gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 well done etesian i completely forgot about trick room and how it worked dispite getting it form blue in sol silver. good luck wiht your breeding op Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Am Drag Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 After a lot of breeding, I finally got the right Mudkip with the right nature. I noticed that you mentioned that Reuniclus should be breed to have Energy Ball. I looked into it, but I saw that it can't learn Energy Ball via Lotad/Petilil to Cacnea to Solosis. It can only learn Energy Ball via TM, which we don't have access to. This is the same for Chandelure. I looked for all possible chain breeds for these two but did not find anything, (Please let me know if I am wrong, I am pretty sure I checked all possibilities). I was wondering what other options you could advise me to take. I tried looking for other moves for each of them, such as: Grass Knot or Shadow Ball for Reuniclus and maybe Grass Knot for Chandelure via Breeding. Please let me know if you have other ideas. Please and thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 He's talking about breeding in episode 12 when you can breed TM moves onto your pokemon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Am Drag Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 He did tell me this except Cacnea and Reuniclus can't breed. I was not able to find any Pokemon that can learn Energy Ball via leveling up and also be able to breed with Reuniclus. The same for Chandelure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Lore Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Reuniclus is only in the Amorphous egg group, while Cacnea is Grass/Humanshape. If you want to get Energy Ball onto Reuniclus/Chandelure, the chain you're looking for is Swirlix/Slurpuff-> Castform -> Solosis/Litwick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Am Drag Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Wow... How did I over look that? I'm not that used to the 6th gen yet. Anyways, thank you sooo much!! Edited October 20, 2014 by gamesontv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Reuniclus is only in the Amorphous egg group, while Cacnea is Grass/Humanshape. If you want to get Energy Ball onto Reuniclus/Chandelure, the chain you're looking for is Swirlix/Slurpuff-> Castform -> Solosis/Litwick. Yeah, I messed up there, I wrote that one while thinking of Gothita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Am Drag Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 I finally got good enough IV's for all the Pokemon, (SO MUCCHHHH BREEDDDING......). I was wondering which natures would be appropriate for the Pokemon: Swampert, Reuniclus, Chandelure, Heliolisk, Scrafty, and Durant. Since I gave them moves based on ATT or SP ATT. I was thinking Modest(SP ATT+, ATT-) for the special attackers and Adamant(ATT+, SP ATT-) for the attackers. This would mean Modest for Reuniclus, Chandelure, and Heliolisk and Adamant for Swampert, Scrafty, and Durant. I have a lot of Heart Scales from mining so I was planning to go the Poke Psychologist and alter their natures. I was wondering if this would be the best nature for them or if there would be any nature better for any of them. Please and thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Also Consider Jolly (+ Speed -Sp Attack) for some physical attackers and Timid (+ Speed -Attack) for Special Attackers. I'd do this. Swampert - Brave Reuniclus - Modest or Calm Chandelure - Timid Heliolisk - Modest Scrafty - Adamant or Jolly Durant - Adamant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Am Drag Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 After some debating, I think I shall give the Pokemon the following natures: Swampert - Brave Reuniclus - Quiet Chandelure - Modest Heliolisk - Modest Scrafty - Adamant Durant - Adamant Any suggestions, because I would like to see if there are any better options. Please and thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Chandelure has more than ample Special Attack, it'd probably enjoy the speed boot from Timid more than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Am Drag Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) That's a good point. Timid it is then. Thank you! EDIT: I finally got the natures that I wanted. Here is my team right now: http://postimg.org/gallery/8fe1ucp2/ Now I just have to EV them. I have never really EV trained in the main stream Pokemon games since they are so easy, I just enjoy the storyline... I found the EV Training guide written by Notus, all I was wondering is how I should spread the EV points for each stat for each Pokemon. I understand that, for example, Swampert should be EV trained for ATT and HP (252 each), leaving 6 for other stats (Please correct me if I am spreading the EV points incorrectly for Swampert). I was wondering what the other stats others might choose and also how the EV points should be spread out for all the other Pokemon. Please and thank you. Edited November 2, 2014 by gamesontv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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