Tales of a never-ending passion: Charizard

[Tomas Elliot]

INTRODUCTION

Welcome everyone to my newest RMT! It has been quite a while since I last made one of these things, right? As explained in my return topic, stuff have happened, and I have been forced to stay away from Reborn (and from Pokemon in general) for quite some time. But Pokemon is a never-ending passion for me, it is a fire that never stops burning: eventually, I just had to come back here, and to celebrate this return, I have decided to start a new series of RMTs, as a spiritual successor of my (someone may remember them if they knew me as Tears of tomorrow on PO) "The Boredom Chronicles", and other mini-series that followed that. And to inaugurate this new series, what better way than creating a team for Gen 6 OU, the hottest tier in the current metagame? And since I was at that, I thought I'd go with my favourite playstile: semi-stall with a Volt-turn core, and a vicious Set-Up Sweeper to come in when the opponents are weakened from the fight, use a boosting move, and then wipe out opposition!

AT A GLANCE

The semi-stall nature of this team is evident as soon as you lay your eyes on it: out of the first 5 Pokemon, 2 are full-on walls that form a defensive core, and 3 are still rather bulky despite being designed to dish out damage and wear down opponents. The last Pokemon is the sweeper of choice, whose job is to annihilate the enemy team once they have been properly worn down by its team-mates: I picked Charizard because it is arguably the hottest (literally) thing going on in the metagame today... I mean come on, how can you not be enthusiastic at the idea of a popular Pokemon, that was unfortunately screwed over by mechanics and relegated to the RU tier last generation, suddenly becoming a top-class OU sweeper this generation?

Note however that the only reason why the team needs Charizard is that it synergizes well, in terms of weaknesses-resistances, with the other members, and thus it can get more and better chances to come in and boost itself with Dragon Dance: from a strictly strategic point of view, any Set-Up Sweeper could do just fine in its place, and in fact the team is perfectly capable of winning without resorting to the sweeper at all (as a replay included later on will demonstrate). All in all, the sweeper of choice acts as a "final weapon", a total party kill button you press if the occasion arises, but it is not mandatory to dedicate your strategy to only finding an opening for it to come it. This is just the way I like to play in general: when I play Yu-Gi-Oh, I like to build decks that can pull off OTKs if the occasion arises, but are not forced to do so, as in, "OTK first turn or lose". Similarly, when I play Pokemon, I like to build team in which a sweeper can come in and wipe the board, but not teams that depend on th sweeper to do so. In my opinion, such mindset is the winning one, because overly focusing on just one single strategy makes it easy for opponents to read your moves and counter them, while being able to adapt to various situations means that your team will stand a chance against a wider array of enemies. Even after you post a RMT.

A CLOSER LOOK

@ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect
- Seismic Toss

Nothing to say about this one, really. Since Gen 5 gave us Eviolite, Chansey became the best cleric and the best Special wall in the game bar none. When Mega Evolutions were first announced, people immediately started panicking and saying that "this new overly powerful things are gonna take over the metagame" and that "stall is dead", but as it often happens, it turned out that just wasn't the case: breaking past Chansey is as hard as ever, Mega or not, and unless opponents use Taunt or strong Physical Fighting-type moves (and they need to be Physical, special ones won't do much, for example Mega Alakazam can only deal about 30% damage with Focus Blast), she will be able to do her job for the team relatively easily. Max HP to maximise her durability and to pass some HUGE Wishes to companions, keeping them alive, Max Def to make sure she can endure non-supereffective Physical attacks (non-LO Excadrill deals a bit less than 40% to her with Earthquake, for example), 4 EVs in SpDef are enough to make her an insanely durable Special wall, because Eviolite will boost that stat to a level that, when paired with her insane amount of HPs, will make it absolutely impossible to kill her with a Special move. Heal Bell is for some reason overlooked this generation, but it is a wonderful move to keep team-mates healthy, remove annoying Burns from Landorus and Excadrill (which are otherwise crippled by such status) and allowing Charizard to attempt again a sweep if the opponent manages to cripple it with a well-timed Thunder Wave (for example, by Ferrothorn on the switch). Wish+Protect is a combo that is INFINITELY superior to Softboiled in my opinion, because it allows Chansey to heal herself while scouting the moves of Pokemon with choice items at the same time, and it also allows her to heal companions by passing them the fattest Wishes in the game. Seismic Toss is there so that Chansey won't be a total Taunt bait.

@ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Power Whip

The Stealth Rocker and Physical wall of the team, Ferrothorn is great because it utterly shuts down Mega Venusaur (which basically becomes an occasion to freely use Stealth Rocks), and it is a fairly safe option to wall Azumarill and Volt-turn teams. The fact that most Defog users cannot beat it without it using Leech Seed (Defog doesn't remove the seeds) and stalling them out with Protect only addes to the fun, frustrating opponents and making sure they'll have a hard time removing Stealth Rock. On this regard: Rocky Helmet can be used over Leftovers to act as a pseudo Spin-blocker (if an opponent dies to recoil upon hitting Ferrothorn with Rapid Spin, Stealt Rock won't be removed), but I generally prefer durability over that, as Ferrothorn and the Volt-turn core can take care of most Rapid Spinners anyway. HP and Def are maximized because this is a Physical wall, Leech Seed gives extra recovery and a way of frustrating opponents forcing them to switch, Stealth Rock is mandatory in every self-respecting team nowadays, Protect stalls out opponents to sap their HPs with Leech Seed (and scouts the moves of Pokemon equipped with choice items), and Power Whip is the strongest attack Ferrothorn can use to avoid being Taunt bait: before you start bringing up Gyro Ball, I have to say that no, Power Whip is better, because with Gyro Ball you will be losing to Taunt+Roost Gliscor, which is in general an annoying Pokemon for this team that only Ferrothorn can consistently take on.

But wait Tomas, does it make sense to have a defensive core with a shared weakness? And a very crippling weakness to a very common offensive type, at that? Keep on reading...

@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Knock Off

This guy is the reason why this is a team and not a bunch of Pokemon. A bunch of Pokemon is when each Pokemon has a job to do. A team is when the six Pokemon can help each other doing their respective jobs. Remember when I said that this team has a defensive core and a Volt-turn core? Well, this guys is part of the Volt-turn core and also helps out the defensive core: Chansey and Ferrothorn share a weakness to the Fighting type, but Landorus-T, despite running an all-out offense set (with Choice Scarf!) is still more than capable of tanking any and all of the most common attacks used by the most common Fighting-type Pokemon, after Intimidate has cut their attack. Afterwards, as the opponents are forced to switch out, Landorus will get the momentum of the team going with U-turn, and at the first occasion Chansey will come in and heal it with Wish, potentially allowing this strategy to be used indefinitely if you don't misplay. 252 Atk and Adamant nature so that Landorus will hit as hard as possible, thus maximizing the pay-off of the Volt-turn strategy (opponents will be worn out more quickly), 252 Spe + Choice Scarf guarantee that you will be outrunning anything non-scarfed, because this generation, despite introducing a larger amount of fast Pokemon, nerfed the various weather effects and their abusers, meaning that nothing will ever reach the insane peaks that Sand Rush and Swift Swim once granted, effectively slowing down the metagame. Earthquake is the STAB move you'll be using when you are not U-turning, as it is great to finish off opponents thus allowing Landorus-T to double as a late game cleaner, U-turn is the go-to move you'll be using in 99.999% of the situations, Knock Off is godly this generation and thus is worth carrying around and throwing out once in a while, and Stone Edge is for fliers that foolishly think they can take on this guy. Seriously, the effectiveness of this team SKYROCKETED once I added this guy, I seriously think it could be on par with Scizor as the best U-turner of the tier...

@ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp

Volt-turn is the new black. Since Gen 5 gave us Volt Switch, everyone and their mother have been either building entire teams around this strategy, or just including a Volt-turn core in their teams. And the most common and most iconic user of the move has always been Rotom-W, thanks to its awesome typing that, paired with Levitate, reduces its weaknesses to just one, and to its excellent stats and coverage. Of all the sets that have come out over the years, I've always preferred the Bulky Specs variant you see here: it hits like a truck maximizing the pay-off of Volt-turn, it takes resisted (and even neutral) hits like a champ, and it can cripple opponents who carelessly switch in a Ferrothorn or Chansey with Trick, while still packing a punch afterwards. Max HP for durability (after all, it is the go-to counter for Talonflame, and with a bit of help from Chansey's Wishes the wash machine will be able to take the falcon on multiple times), Max SpAtk with Modest nature and Choice Specs to deal some serious damage to whatever the opponent switches in (for example, if they try and use Tyranitar to sponge Volt Switch, they will still take enough damage to find themselves within kill range for Landorus, which I will invariably send in to Intimidate them: this will force them to switch out once again, allowing Landorus to U-turn and keep momentum going), Volt Switch is the key move you'll use most of the time, Hydro Pump should only be used if you predict a switch-in, Trick cripples walls and most slow Set-Uppers (trick a Specs to their Clefable and watch them rage as they accidentally lock themselves into Calm Mind), and Will-O-Wisp is great to cripple Dragons that, since they take mimimal damage from Volt Switch, think they can take advantage from the free turn to use Dragon Dance. This Pokemon takes a lot of prediction this generation, because Trick will fail if the opponent has a Mega Stone, but if you don't mess stuff up, this guy can be very rewarding...

@ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

When Gen 6 nerfed weather, we were finally able to see with our own eyes just how good a Pokemon Excadrill is. It was wonderful to explore the many things it can do for a team, and to find out that yes, it is indeed a great Pokemon that can benefit almost any team, outside of "lol Sand Rush sweep". Max HP paired with an Assault Vest make the mole surprisingly bulky, as many users of Scald find out at their expenses. Such bulk can be exploited to succesfully Rapid Spin in situations where a frailer Spinner would simply die or be forced out (as a side note: as this team needs Stealth Rock to succesfully wear down opponents with the switches the Volt-turn strategy forces, Rapid Spin is a wiser choice than Defog), while max Atk with an Adamant nature guarantees that the other 3 moves (that need to be damaging ones because of the limitations of Assault Vest) will still pack a punch and deal some serious damage. Earthquake is the go-to STAB you'll use most of the time if you are not Spinning, Iron Head is for Fairy-type special walls (most of witch are OHKOed by it), and Rock Slide is to catch fliers on the switch, if opponents predict an Earthquake and you predict their prediction. DO NOT carelessly leave Excadrill out against fliers that can hurt it, relying on its bulk and coverage to remove threats: Excadrill main job is to Rapid Spin, the sweeper of this time is Charizard and thus Rapid Spin is VITAL, therefore you should NEVER allow opponents to bring Excadrill down to critical health. Just tank a hit, Spin, switch out, and make sure you use Wish with Chansey because switching in again. You want your Spinner to stay alive no matter what.

@ make a wild guess
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Here it is, the strong-yet-frail Special attacker of last generation suddenly becoming a bulky Set-Up Physical Sweeper this generation. Despite the Mega Evolution giving it bulk and awesome typing, this guy STILL cannot take hits, so DO NOT switch it in to take hits: the idea is to wait for your opponent to kill a Pokemon of yours with a Pokemon that cannot touch Charizard, and that cannot easily scout which Mega Evolution you are going to pull (remember X and Y have completely different checks and counters, so you want to take advantage of that to play mind games and gain the upper hand), at this point you send in Charizard, you Mega Evolve and use Dragon Dance as the opponent swirches out, and at that point a total party kill will most likely ensue. Clever idea to keep your opponent guessing from the very beginning is to put Charizard first in your teambuilder, so that it will show up as lead in the team preview (most people use Charizard Y as lead): at this point, just swap it out before the match starts and use Landorus-T as lead instead, and your opponent will have a hard time figuring out which Charizard you are using untill the very end. Max Atk and max Spe because this guy is supposed to b an end-game sweeper, Adamant nature is enough to outspeed stuff at +1, and gives you the extra power to break through Physical walls, Dragon Dance is the move you use as Mega Evolving, and the trio of Flare Blitz, Outrage and Earthquake grant you some wonderful coverage, making it easier for you to push for game. Always remember: when you send out Charizard, you want the battle to end there and then, going for the win is your top priority with the big guy except in rare cases, so make sure your opponent's Pokemon are weakened enough before sending Charizard out, and don't get locked into Outrage if things that can tank it are still around.

CONCLUSIONS

So yeah, here is the team: rating, opinions and constructive criticism are welcomed. And if you try the team yourself, don't forget to share your results!

TO make it easier for you to understand how the team plays, here are a couple replays.

An occasion in which the team didn't need Charizard's sweep to win (one of the best battles I've ever had, albeit kinda uined by the finish)

A notable 6-0 (notable in that the opponent actually had a decent team and was relatively good, unlike the people I usually 6-0)

THE IMPORTABLE

Charizard (M) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Power Whip

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect
- Seismic Toss

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp

Excadrill (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Knock Off

[Jelly]

Okay so, this looks like a pretty solid team. But after looking closely at your EVs I kinda almost wanted to throw up. Here's a crash course on EVs for you. When something has a huge base HP, it's better to invest more in Def or SDef. Also try to have an odd HP number on things weak to rocks so you only take 49% from rocks when you're 4x weak to them and only 24% when you're 2x weak to them. (This is mainly about Zard X.) Also try to do a little research and numbers work to see what you can outspeed with +1 and +2 boosts and adjust your speed EVs accordingly. Also please if you're running Assault Vest on something, put more than 4 EVs into your special bulk.

Now onto fixing these EVs.

With how massive Chansey's base HP is, I recommend going 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD. You just get a hell of a lot tankier that way and your Wish passes still heal a shit-ton.

Go for a more split-defense set on Ferro. Something like 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD so you can tank hits from both sides relatively well.

Like I said before, please put more bulk into your Assault Vest users. Go with a clean 120 HP / 136 Atk / 252 SpD to increase your bulk and to keep you around longer to do more spinning for Zard and that nifty VoltTurn core you've got.

Also, Rotom-W is WAY better as a Defensive set now. It has the perfect mix of Defensiveness and Offensiveness with these 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe EVs and a Bold nature instead of running specs. Also slap some lefties on there and put on Pain Split instead of Trick. (For hopefully obvious reasons.)

So now onto the main attraction, Zard X. Charizard is 4x weak to rocks pre-mega. So it is only natural to want to run some kind of recovery on it. (A-la Roost) And the Speed EVs really are unnecessary on something that is most likely going to get a +2 boost. I recommend these 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe EVs as you outspeed the most relevant scarfed 'mons after +2. Also scrap Flare Blitz for Roost because Dragon + Ground is already perfect coverage. And Use Dragon Claw over Outrage as usually you want to play rather safely with your Zard X and D-Claw still hits really really hard.

Good luck with your team! :]

Edited October 21, 2014 by JellyMan

[Tomas Elliot]

Okay so, this looks like a pretty solid team. But after looking closely at your EVs I kinda almost wanted to throw up. Here's a crash course on EVs for you. When something has a huge base HP, it's better to invest more in Def or SDef. Also try to have an odd HP number on things weak to rocks so you only take 49% from rocks when you're 4x weak to them and only 24% when you're 2x weak to them. (This is mainly about Zard X.) Also try to do a little research and numbers work to see what you can outspeed with +1 and +2 boosts and adjust your speed EVs accordingly. Also please if you're running Assault Vest on something, put more than 4 EVs into your special bulk.

Now onto fixing these EVs.

With how massive Chansey's base HP is, I recommend going 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD. You just get a hell of a lot tankier that way and your Wish passes still heal a shit-ton.

Go for a more split-defense set on Ferro. Something like 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD so you can tank hits from both sides relatively well.

Like I said before, please put more bulk into your Assault Vest users. Go with a clean 120 HP / 136 Atk / 252 SpD to increase your bulk and to keep you around longer to do more spinning for Zard and that nifty VoltTurn core you've got.

Also, Rotom-W is WAY better as a Defensive set now. It has the perfect mix of Defensiveness and Offensiveness with these 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe EVs and a Bold nature instead of running specs. Also slap some lefties on there and put on Pain Split instead of Trick. (For hopefully obvious reasons.)

So now onto the main attraction, Zard X. Charizard is 4x weak to rocks pre-mega. So it is only natural to want to run some kind of recovery on it. (A-la Roost) And the Speed EVs really are unnecessary on something that is most likely going to get a +2 boost. I recommend these 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe EVs as you outspeed the most relevant scarfed 'mons after +2. Also scrap Flare Blitz for Roost because Dragon + Ground is already perfect coverage. And Use Dragon Claw over Outrage as usually you want to play rather safely with your Zard X and D-Claw still hits really really hard.

Good luck with your team! :]

1) On Chansey: absolutely not. In general increasing HPs is better than increasing defenses to increase bulk, for a whole mathematical reason that I don't feel like explaining right now. But yeah, if you have time, grab a pencil and a paper, check out the Gen 6 damage formula on Bulbapedia, and try and do some math: you'll see that in general, the more HP the merrier.

2) On Ferro: I might try the split set you suggest, but honestly, I am already content with the purely Physical set I use because in 98% of situations I use it to tank physical hits: if a Special Attacker appears, I generally switch to Chansey immediately.

3) On Excadrill: I personally prefer to have HP maxed out on Excadrill for the reasons stated above: this being said, while I generally like to hit hard with Excadrill when it is not attacking, you do have a point in regard of giving it more bulk to help it stay alive longer and spin better. I'll mess around and see how I can rearrange the EVs to factor in this suggestion.

4) On Rotom-W: I think it's a matter of personal preference. The set you suggest is better to exploit Pain Split and to act specifically as a wall, while the set I use is better to make use of Trick. I just happen to like Trick a lot. Do keep in mind that this team lacks a Taunter, so Trick is vital to cripple those Ferrothorns and Chanseys that keep switching into Rotom-W, and that would otherwise be free to do their job, as I have no other way of stopping them.

5) On Charizard: absolutely not. Charizard is there for one reason and one reason only: step in after a companion has fallen, set up ONE Dragon Dance, and push for game. It is NOT supposed to take hits, I have NEVER used it to take ANY hits (except maybe 4x resisted ones, which won't hurt anyway), and honestly, the day I start using Set-Up sweepers to take hits will be the day I stop playing Semi-stall altogether... Charizard doesn't need to recover, nor to have any bulk: when he attacks, at the end of the turn either the opponent is dead or he is. It's that simple. And it is the duty of the other team members to guarantee that he comes out on top. He doesn't need to shrug off Stealth Rocks damage, because it is the duty of the player to make sure Stealth Rocks aren't there at all when it comes in. And most certainly it is not going to use Dragon Dance twice, unless the opponent is very very stupid. But even when I've faced total noobs, they have always had the decency to send in something with a Rock-type move as soon as they saw Charizard, which means, you guessed it, it's either kill or be killed. And thus, max Atk and max Spe to be sure I am the one killing. As for Outrage+Earthquake canceling the need for Flare Blitz, I have only one word for you: Skarmory (please notice I have no Magnezone in this team). And Skarmory aside, EQ is not STAB and is not boosted by Tough Claws, so chances are it will miss important kills on stuff like Ferrothorn (which in return can cripple Zard with T-wave), Venusaur (which in return can put Zard to sleep), also I have noticed that people tend to immediately send in the likes of Landorus-T and Gliscor as soon as they realize my Zard is the X variant: in a Flare Blitz-less scenario, in order to get past them I'd be forced to lock myself into Outrage (which can spell disaster if the opponent still has a Ferrothorn or a Fairy-type at their disposal) or to flat out switch to something else, which is something that I don't want to do end-game, because chances are I have sacrificed at least one Pokemon to find an opening for Zard to come in, and I won't get another such occasion... So yeah, the only thing you are right about are the 4 random EVs in HP (moved those to SpDef to make sure HP has a odd number).

[Jelly]

With 252 speed EVs and one boost you still get outsped by so many things on zard.

Specs rotom is just bad now lol.

split defensive set is just better on ferro looking at your team trust me

i did the math on health vs resistances. ive been battling for a while and i know what im talking about on this lol

Edited October 21, 2014 by JellyMan

[Tomas Elliot]

With 252 speed EVs and one boost you still get outsped by so many things on zard.

Specs rotom is just bad now lol.

split defensive set is just better on ferro looking at your team trust me

i did the math on health vs resistances. ive been battling for a while and i know what im talking about on this lol

Maybe it's because I'm tight-minded, but I tend to prefer mathematics, calculations and actual data collected upon repeatedly testing solutions out (PARTICULARLY this last one), rather than "I'm gud at dis trust me lol". Excuse my lack of faith.

Your comment on Rotom is particularly gratuitous: Specs Rotom is not good nor bad (like the vast majority of Pokemon used competitively), it simply does its job. "Its job" meaning "cripple the support Pokemon this Taunt-less team cannot stop otherwise by Tricking them a choice item". Suggesting a different Pokemon/set/option whatever to do the same job is fine, but if you tell me to redesign a Pokemon so that it does a completely different job, I expect you to provide a better reason than "lol dis set sux trust me I'm gud".

Edited October 21, 2014 by Tomas Elliot

[Jelly]

you get more out of investing in def and sdef while using eviolite on chansey. the extra hp invest doesnt actually do much.

even with the av drill and chansey this team is still weak to a lot of special threats in ou (esp keldo have fun getting bopped by that,,,)

[Tomas Elliot]

you get more out of investing in def and sdef while using eviolite on chansey. the extra hp invest doesnt actually do much.

even with the av drill and chansey this team is still weak to a lot of special threats in ou (esp keldo have fun getting bopped by that,,,)

Your "lol dood you should do what I say cuz I'm so gud" attitude certainly won't solve the problem.

Chansey already has maximum Def AND maximum HP, meaning she is taking the minimum damage from Secret Sword possible. Reducing her HP to invest in SpDef would only cause her to die to Sacred Sword more quickly, so I hardly see how your insistence on this point solves the supposed Keldeo weakness.

Physically Defensive Rotom would solve the problem? Probably. But what you are failing to see (possibly because you are too busy keeping up your attitude and making this whole discussion sound like it's personal when it really isn't) is that the problem here is the conflicting needs. I NEED a way to prevent Chansey, Ferrothorn and the likes from just keeping on switching in, setting up hazards, keeping their teams healthy and crippling my Pokemon with status. Such Pokemon are the bane of a semi-stall team like mine, because a team like this is all about switching in and out, and Pokemon like those can make switching a true pain (it's not nice to see your HP reduced by the tanked hit, the entry hazards and the Toxic damage every time you switch in, even the cleric Chansey will have troubles keeping everyone healthy on the long run). Therefore, I need a way to effectively cripple them and prevent them from doing just that: Specs Rotom can accomplish this with Trick while at the same time being still capable of checking a key threat like Talonflame, so I thought I'd kill two birds with a stone.

You say that making Rotom a Physical wall would allow it to better counter Talonflame while being able to effectively take on Keldeo without fearing Secret Sword? I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, switching Rotom to such set would mean I wouldn't have any way to deal with the aforementioned Chansey, Ferrothorn and the likes. And note that by "dealing" I mean "using strategies to prevent them from doing their job", not merely "throwing in there a fighting type and threatening them with a SE move", because in this second case they'll simply be able to switch out and try again later. With Specs Rotom, it's often the opponent himself who sends in Chansey/Ferrothors, expecting a Volt Switch or a Hydro Pump... Only to get screwed by Trick (hell in one of the replays I provided, pulling this on a Celebi pretty much won me the game, that should be enough proof of what I am saying).

This is the question you have failed to answer yet: if Rotom switches to fully defensive set, how am I supposed to stop Chansey, Ferrothorn and the likes? None of my Pokemon can learn Taunt, and none can learn Trick/Switcheroo except Rotom: are you suggesting that I replace something else with a Pokemon that does? If so, which Pokemon I should remove? And which Taunter/Tricker should I add? And with which set? And is all of this even NEEDED, considering the nature of the team?

These are the problems that arise when the balance of a team is altered: one doesn't simply change a set without thinking about the bigger picture. If the current balance leaves me opened to a threat, the entire team, not just one set, needs to be reworked, but sometimes doing so is not possible without utterly scrapping the entire ideas, and in such a case it is better (or at least, I think it is better) to be weak to a single Pokemon that isn't even that common, rather than losing to defensive threats that are in every other team and/or revolutionize the team entirely.

If you are willing to discuss such points, then a discussion that can be of help and eventually improve the team can be sparked. But throwing around your supposed "experience" and bullying people into using the sets you find to be good without even bothering to try and see how the team actually works is not going to do any good.

[Jelly]

im not throwing around experience or trying to bully you into anything. you're the one who's getting buttblasted by someone criticizing your team. i recommended some set changes. does that mean you have to do them? no. but would it help you as a competitive battler? yes. im thinking you take me saying that i know about the health vs. resistances thing as a threat to your competitive capability or something.

Edited October 21, 2014 by JellyMan

[Tomas Elliot]

im not throwing around experience or trying to bully you into anything. you're the one who's getting buttblasted by someone criticizing your team. i recommended some set changes. does that mean you have to do them? no. but would it help you as a competitive battler? yes. im thinking you take me saying that i know about the health vs. resistances thing as a threat to your competitive capability or something.

Where I live, laughing at people (because that's what "lol" stands for) in every sentence is bullying. And as I said, it's not that I don't want to use the sets you suggested (hell I even said I'd give the Excadrill one a try), it's simply that doing so would solve some problems, but also cause some other problems to arise (this is most glaring in Rotom's case, which I have been explaining with A LOT of details for the past 3 posts), So I am simply demanding that, upon suggesting a change, you also address the problems that would arise because of said change. As I already said, don't try to make this whole thing personal when it really isn't. All I am asking is that you suggest not just a change, but also a way of solving the problems that such change would cause.

[Jelly]

take some notes man. where you live =/= the rest of the world. im not attacking you. also exca + zard + lando is 1/2 of your team to take on those defensive threats you mentioned. clefable is a top tier threat that you seem to have trouble with as well.

[Dark Desire]

sorry if this has been stated already but most people max both Def and Spdef evs on chansey because of evolvite multiplyer and hp is more if you want to split resistances which with evolvite, just putting the evs in the resistance stats does so much more, and your wishes will still be huge regardless because lolchanseybasehp

[Sheep]

It has been stated already, and it's what I do with Chansey too but Tomas doesn't want to do it.

[Tomas Elliot]

It has been stated already, and it's what I do with Chansey too but Tomas doesn't want to do it.

Sigh... It's not like I don't want to do it. It's just that I don't see the need to: what is a Special attack that 252 Def 252 SpDef can take, and 252 HP 252 Def can't? Dumping all those EVs into HP along with Def on the other hand improves Chansey's ability to take Physical hits (which you WILL be taking, you cannot just assume your prediction will always be correct, and/or your opponent will always be a step behind you). As I have said in FOUR different posts now, I don't want to make changes because a self-proclaimed "expert" tells me to, or because "most people use this set": I want to make changes because there is an actual need for them. So if there was a Special move from any Special attacker in the tier that my set cannot take (Secret Sword deals Physical damage, so my set is actually better at "tanking" it, even if, let's be honest here, Secret Sword will most likely obliterate Chansey regardless), then I would consider making this change. But in my experience there is no such thing, so I don't see the need for a change, it's that simple.

Of all the changes that were "politely suggested", the only one that is somewhat justified is the one to Rotom's set, because indeed a full Physically defensive set would make it easier to counter Talonflame while giving me a true way of dealing with Keldeo... Except that I need Rotom with Trick to cripple defensive threats which are the bane of this team, as I have been explaining for the past FOUR posts (I am seriously starting to doubt people's reading skills): before I change Rotom's set, I need to know how else I can deal with such threats. And so far all the answers I have received to this simple question amount to:

1) "Lol I am good at this trust me"

2) "Lol Specs Rotom is bad now you will lose to Keldeo"

3) "Lol you will also lose to Clefable good luck with that"

4) "Landorus+Exca+Zard can handle them" which is the closest thing to an actual answer, except it is horribly inaccurate: Charizard cannot carelessly switch into Chansey or Ferrothorn, as both can cripple it with Thunder Wave, as for Excadrill and Landorus well, the only thing a Pokemon with four offensive moves can do to a wall is attack it. Too bad neither of them will ever come close to even hoping to score a clear kill on Chansey (barely 2KOed, and if it used Wish on my switch then the whole thing becomes pretty pointless) and most importantly Ferrothorn (whose more Physical set is 3KOed by both, and can do a lot of annoying things in return, most notably Leech Seed + Protect).

After that, more people talking about Chansey's spread, which has NEVER been a problem and, as far as I am concerned, never will be.

So I once again repeat my question, in the hope that someone will be so gracious to provide an answer to it: should I remove Trick from Rotom in order to make it a pure Physical wall, what other adjustments/changes should/could I make in order to find another way of crippling/stopping defensive threats, most notably Ferrothorn and Chansey?

[Void]

Just as a starting note, this really isn't even close to semi-stall. The only pokemon running sets you'd find on stall here are Chansey and Ferrothorn, and there is no toxic on anything on this team, only 1 mon carries a status inflicting move and it's a trick specs user. On top of that, nothing other than Chansey has any means of reliable recovery. This is not an issue with your team per se, I just don't see how you could possibly define this as 'semi-stall'.

Now, on to the real issues I have noticed with this team. You have no answer to Keldeo. Nothing on this team counters or even checks it. Specs Keldeo OHKOs or 2HKOs everything on this team with either secret sword or hydro pump, so you'd basically have to predict the correct move every time to prevent something from dying every time it comes in. Variants like Sub CM Keldeo just run right through this team as well. I know that this is gen 6 and you can't have safe switches for everything, but when it comes to a top-tier ultra-popular S-Rank viable mon like Keldeo, you've got to have something that can take it.

The other main issue is that you have nothing to break through stall. Zard X is your best bet for wallbreaking, but no semi-decent stall team isn't going to carry checks for zard x, and looking at the rest of your team you have no other way to wear down the aforementioned checks. You can at best cripple one thing with trick specs, which will most likely be a chansey or something rather than a zard x check.

My first suggestion would be to take Chansey off this team, and replace it with Calm Mind Clefable. Chansey is just so out of place on this team, especially with the set you're running. You've got the volt turn core thing going on, everything else on this team can dish out hits pretty well, and then you've got this thing that can just take hits and do nothing in return. It doesn't carry twave or toxic, stoss is a 3 or 4 hit ko on most stuff at best. Basically complete set-up fodder, and every time you go into Chansey it wastes any momentum you build with this team.

CM Clefable helps solve the stall issue, while also acting as your status absorber for burn/poison. Having a cleric is nice and all, but in XY OU, you need to differentiate between what's needed and what's just nice to have.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next, to combat the Keldeo issue, I would suggest Latios over Excadrill.

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake
- Defog

Earthquake hits ttar, bisharp and heatran nicely. Luring in the latter two is especially great for you, as that helps open up a sweep for Clefable.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that you've got such a great heatran lure with EQ latios, I'd run the bulky DD zard x with Roost instead.

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

I'm not really sure what makes you think this thing can't take hits, zard x is so bulky that defensive zard x is gaining popularity on stall teams. Roost is great here because it allows you to come in with zard mid-game, get off some flare blitzes to weaken the opponent's team, then heal it off the next opportunity you get to make it easier to sweep late game. It also means your opponents can't check it by simply wearing it down with repeated attacks. You don't really need EQ anymore because EQ Latios lures in tran and tyranitar, putting them both in range for you to KO with a +1 dclaw (OHKOs less defensive heatran sets, of course). This set also beats Clefable, as it can't really touch you in your base form, allowing you to set up as many DDs as possible.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since you have an extremely effective stallbreaker now in the form of Clefable (not to mention DD roost zard is far more effective vs stall than DD 3 attacks), you no longer need to run trick specs on Rotom. You also already have Latios to bring the power special attacking wise, plus choiced rotom isn't the best this gen as getting locked into the wrong move can mean serious repercussions. Overall I think the defensive rotom set serves this team far better, the added bulk making it a much more effective check to stuff like talonflame. Run a 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe spread with a Bold nature, with Pain Split over Trick and Leftovers over Choice Specs (obviously).

Now that you have the physically defensive Rotom, I'd also run a mixed bulk EV spread on Ferrothorn to allow you take special hits a bit better, especially considering this is now your main fairy check. Maybe you could try 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD at first, then adjust it as you see fit after playing some games with it. I'd also go with Gyro Ball over Power Whip as all variants of Gliscor lose to either Clefable, Rotom or Latios. Of course, with that comes changing your nature to Relaxed as well as setting your speed IV to 0.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unaware Clefable is still a bit of an annoyance to this team now, but you can manage to take that down with a combination of rotom WoW, ferro leech seed and hitting it hard with zard or landorus or something. Overall I believe my changes will help you combat far more threats, even if certain mons become slightly harder to take on.

So, should you decide to implement/try out my suggestions, the team would look something like this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature

IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Gyro Ball

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake
- Defog

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Knock Off

good luck, hope these changes work out for you n_n

Edited October 22, 2014 by Void

[Tomas Elliot]

A lot of useful stuff

JESUS CHRIST it has taken a while, but it would seem the serious feedback I was wating for, that keeps the balance of the team in mind and addresses issues by bringing up actual facts and giving detailed explanation other than "because I said so", has finally arrived. Before I move on to replying to your points, I would like to take a moment to thank you for the effort you put into providing an actually helpful post.

Now onto the points you made:

1) But but but... I like Wish-passing ;-; (Seriously tho, when the only reason for running a Pokemon over another is "because I like it", then it means there is no actual reason for not trying out the change. I will give Clefable a try)

2) I am a bit iffy about Defog, because I am not really enthusiastic about the idea of removing my own Rocks, and not being able to remove Leech Seeds, thus giving Ferrothorn a chance to annoy me... But this aside, should I actually go for it, wouldn't Latias be better than Latios, considering that we want this Pokemon to repeatedly take hits from Keldeo, and we lack a cleric? I do get that the whole point about Latios is baiting problematic Pokemon like Tyrannitar but Latias can use Recover, thus improving her ability of repeatedly switching into Keldeo (I highly doubt people would be so silly to leave Keldeo out against any of the Lati twins, chances are they would switch out and attempt another sweep later, forcing me to switch my dragon in again...). I am not saying I don't want to make this change, I just want to hear your detailed opinion in regards of which one of the Lati twins is more useful to this team.

3) I am still iffy about Charizard taking hits because while it is true its Mega form got a buff, it is also true that its base form is the usual glass cannon we remember from past generations, and so it still has the issue of having to switch in and Mega evolve... I honestly feel more confortable using it the way I have done so far! On the other hand, I do see your point about not needing EQ anymore with Latios baiting Ttar and Heatran and Landorus freed from defensive duties thanks to Rotom's more defensive set... I think in the end it will all boil down to the Lati twins question I asked above: if the more defensive Latias is chosen, then I'll keep Charizard the way it is now, while if the baiter Latios is chosen, then I'll give a try to the split you are suggesting for Charizard...

4) As for Rotom and Ferrothorn, you have finally done what I had been requesting for 4 damn posts, that is, freeing them from their current duties so that they can switch to the sets suggested without ruining the balance of the team. So yeah, of course I am going to run them with the sets you are suggesting now.

Again, thanks a lot for bringing some much needed common sense (why is it even called "common sense", if it isn't common at all?) to this topic. I'll wait for your reply on the Lati twins thing before proceeding with the edits.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Tomas Elliot

[Void]

Defog removing your rocks is rather annoying, but since you run a bulky rock setter like Ferrothorn rather than on an offensive mon, it should fine as you'll have plenty of opportunities to set up rocks throughout the game.

You could try both Latias and Latios in that spot really, I just thought that the extra offensive power of Latios would be nice on this team as you otherwise do slightly lack power on the special side. Latios gets Roost as well btw, so if you want to give up earthquake for the sake of being a more solid answer to Keldeo, you could go for that.

One other thing you could try if you go for Latias instead is Healing Wish (Latios does not get this). Especially if you decide to stick with EQ > Roost on Charizard, this means you can have two shots at a sweep with Charizard by getting it back up to perfect health.

[Tomas Elliot]

Defog removing your rocks is rather annoying, but since you run a bulky rock setter like Ferrothorn rather than on an offensive mon, it should fine as you'll have plenty of opportunities to set up rocks throughout the game.

You could try both Latias and Latios in that spot really, I just thought that the extra offensive power of Latios would be nice on this team as you otherwise do slightly lack power on the special side. Latios gets Roost as well btw, so if you want to give up earthquake for the sake of being a more solid answer to Keldeo, you could go for that.

One other thing you could try if you go for Latias instead is Healing Wish (Latios does not get this). Especially if you decide to stick with EQ > Roost on Charizard, this means you can have two shots at a sweep with Charizard by getting it back up to perfect health.

Ok then, I'll mess around a bit with both twins and get back at you. Unfortunately, my internet key offer is coming close to expiration, so untill I recharge it my time on the internet will be very limited, but still...

[NickCrash]

I did some damage calculations on Ferrothorn and Rotom. It seems that as it is, Ferrothorn can't be OHKOed, but it seems that certain (albeit rare to see) mons can force themselves through your physical defenses without much of a problem. I mean, obviously special attacks will wreck it as it is, but there are also things like Absol, mega Medicham, Honchkrow and Mamoswine (focus on the latter two), that can pack a punch and cause problems. As it is normal for high momentum battles, you can't expect your pokemon to be at full health at all times. Therefore, if you bump onto the wrong switch (with the above names), you'll have nothing to counter them with.

The biggest threat in my opinion, is Mamoswine, as it can withstand a -50% (given he tries Superpower and then gets intimidated) decrease in power, and use an ice shard to bring the incoming landorus-t down, or an icicle crash (depends on the set they use).

In the case of Honchkrow (which can assume a mixed set), you just need to stop it before it boosts.

Keldeo is indeed a problem, which will pack a punch against your mons. It can't OHKO Ferrothorn, and your best bet is that power whip. You can keep it as it is, but you'll need instant recovery, which will force you to switch and might lose momentum. You'll know what to switch to, as your team provides you with options. Since usually fire comes to finish an already weakened Ferrothorn, you can even bring ZardX in, if you had a chance to mega evolve it before. You can solve this by putting some defensive EVs on Rotom (I'd take them from SpA, as it's not its main purpose to deal major damage). Play with the numbers a bit. I didn't have time to see for myself, but with the set it has, a misprediction about Keldeo will cause problems. Since (as mentioned) you make no use of toxic or paralysis, your strategy that forces people out may return to you (just in case of threats like these).

Also, don't always expect people to make the right moves or the most logical choices. When they see that they can check you with a mon, here Keldeo, they most probably will continue with the attack and just try to find out what you'll switch into (if they see enough volt-turn, they get used to switches), so surprise them and stay in (to take the hydro pump) for example.

I will also suggest substituting Chansey with Clefable for the certainty of no status, defensive capabilities and typing. You have many things to deal with poison and steel already. You could run it with Calm Mind or Cosmic Power, if you're still afraid of physical blows. Right now, the only example that comes to mind and might be problematic is Volcarona. It can set up to your Clefable with quiver dance. Don't be fooled and let it set up twice! In the case of 1 dance, the only check is Scarfed Lando. When 2, you can't do anything, with any mon on your side.

Also, watch out for CurseLax, which doesn't really care about special hits, and after 3 curses, all non-fighting hits become neutral as well. It can and it will stop ZardX in it's tracks (even with 1 curse) and hit back hard with body slam.

Just my two cents. As I told you, your major threats are not that common.

[Void]

I'm not sure what makes you think Mamoswine is the biggest threat to this team when Rotom-Wash is one of the best answers to Mamoswine out there.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Void

[Tomas Elliot]

I did some damage calculations on Ferrothorn and Rotom. It seems that as it is, Ferrothorn can't be OHKOed, but it seems that certain (albeit rare to see) mons can force themselves through your physical defenses without much of a problem. I mean, obviously special attacks will wreck it as it is, but there are also things like Absol, mega Medicham, Honchkrow and Mamoswine (focus on the latter two), that can pack a punch and cause problems. As it is normal for high momentum battles, you can't expect your pokemon to be at full health at all times. Therefore, if you bump onto the wrong switch (with the above names), you'll have nothing to counter them with.

The biggest threat in my opinion, is Mamoswine, as it can withstand a -50% (given he tries Superpower and then gets intimidated) decrease in power, and use an ice shard to bring the incoming landorus-t down, or an icicle crash (depends on the set they use).

In the case of Honchkrow (which can assume a mixed set), you just need to stop it before it boosts.

Keldeo is indeed a problem, which will pack a punch against your mons. It can't OHKO Ferrothorn, and your best bet is that power whip. You can keep it as it is, but you'll need instant recovery, which will force you to switch and might lose momentum. You'll know what to switch to, as your team provides you with options. Since usually fire comes to finish an already weakened Ferrothorn, you can even bring ZardX in, if you had a chance to mega evolve it before. You can solve this by putting some defensive EVs on Rotom (I'd take them from SpA, as it's not its main purpose to deal major damage). Play with the numbers a bit. I didn't have time to see for myself, but with the set it has, a misprediction about Keldeo will cause problems. Since (as mentioned) you make no use of toxic or paralysis, your strategy that forces people out may return to you (just in case of threats like these).

Also, don't always expect people to make the right moves or the most logical choices. When they see that they can check you with a mon, here Keldeo, they most probably will continue with the attack and just try to find out what you'll switch into (if they see enough volt-turn, they get used to switches), so surprise them and stay in (to take the hydro pump) for example.

I will also suggest substituting Chansey with Clefable for the certainty of no status, defensive capabilities and typing. You have many things to deal with poison and steel already. You could run it with Calm Mind or Cosmic Power, if you're still afraid of physical blows. Right now, the only example that comes to mind and might be problematic is Volcarona. It can set up to your Clefable with quiver dance. Don't be fooled and let it set up twice! In the case of 1 dance, the only check is Scarfed Lando. When 2, you can't do anything, with any mon on your side.

Also, watch out for CurseLax, which doesn't really care about special hits, and after 3 curses, all non-fighting hits become neutral as well. It can and it will stop ZardX in it's tracks (even with 1 curse) and hit back hard with body slam.

Just my two cents. As I told you, your major threats are not that common.

While you make some valid points, you are failing to consider a few things:

1) I am already in the middle of testing the changes Void suggested (refer to his post for more details) which means you didn't need to suggest physically defensive Rotom and Clefable over Chansey, as I am already testing both

2) Honckrow and Curselax are rarely seen (if at all) in OU. The day I start carrying around specific counters to such (relatively) obscure Pokemon is the day I start worrying about Scarf Arbok.

3) Mamoswine is kept in check by Rotom, which as mentioned I am already testing with fully defensive set.

4) You don't need to tell me people won't always make the most logical choice: you have no idea of how many matches I've lost because of that. For example I remember once using a Sun team (it was still Gen 5) against a Rain team. I had my Scarf Heatran out against this guy's Jirachi, which had the rain hax set (Sub/CM/Water Pulse/Thunder). I had previously won the weather war, so we were in permanent Sun. I selected Dragon Pulse, assuming he would switch to his last Pokemon (Dragonite)... And not only he didn't switch, he selected Thunder as a move. AND THUNDER HIT IN SUN PARALYZING HEATRAN ON HIT, which went on to cost me the match. What I am trying to say is, people do silly things and luck rewards them for it. Or they do clever things and lose to hax. That's just how the game goes. One must create the best team possible and play to the best of his abilities, predicting all the moves of the opponent by pondering on what the most logic thing to do in a certain situation would be: this will let you win most matches. But sometimes the opponent will do illogic things and you will lose: that's just how not only Pokemon, but life in general goes. So no point in thinking too hard about it, or raging because of it

[NickCrash]

It seems that I was doing my research and writing down stuff at approximately the same time that Void answered. So, my apologies for any repeats, I just saw Void's post after I finished mine.

As far as the rare mons are concerned, I didn't expect you to change your direction towards them, as you might probably open up to new threats which are more common. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes, I like to check how several UU (or even lower tier) pokemon do in general OU, where you see more or less the same teams (sometimes even the same exact pokemon with exact movesets and EV spreads). I found out that they can be underrated threats, which are put to a lower tier, just because they don't have many different uses (like Landorus, Tentacruel and Clefable). Hell, in gen5 I even used Sandslash for a while. Comparing them to Scarfbok is mere hubris. All I'm suggesting is that you keep these names at the back of your head, so IF they come up, you'd have already thought of a way of coming around them.

That Rotom wasn't fully defensive, so even if it's supposed to kill a Mamoswine easily, it can be also worn out and even lured by something else. In general, yes Rotom is a beast that kills Mamoswine on the spot (except for the quirky one I like with endeavor and wish support). This was also supporting the defensive Rotom, as seen above.

I can understand you passion about these things and I've faced similar opponents. Sometimes overthinking may lead you to do the wrong move or the correct one in situations that such a move would never be expected (for instance, I was even called "stupid" for staying in, predicting his prediction of me switching to Volcarona. I just had to be using Jellicent at the time, so their water move healed my mon and I killed them ). Hax is always there. Once, my Gengar got paralyzed for 7 turns in a row (guess what happened to the outcome of the match). I didn't tell you to take into consideration how people might play because I thought you were a beginner, it's just that when I create teams, I tend to think of gameplay at the same time, because it often seems that things that look nice on paper, might not have the expected outcome.

[Tomas Elliot]

It seems that I was doing my research and writing down stuff at approximately the same time that Void answered. So, my apologies for any repeats, I just saw Void's post after I finished mine.

As far as the rare mons are concerned, I didn't expect you to change your direction towards them, as you might probably open up to new threats which are more common. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes, I like to check how several UU (or even lower tier) pokemon do in general OU, where you see more or less the same teams (sometimes even the same exact pokemon with exact movesets and EV spreads). I found out that they can be underrated threats, which are put to a lower tier, just because they don't have many different uses (like Landorus, Tentacruel and Clefable). Hell, in gen5 I even used Sandslash for a while. Comparing them to Scarfbok is mere hubris. All I'm suggesting is that you keep these names at the back of your head, so IF they come up, you'd have already thought of a way of coming around them.

That Rotom wasn't fully defensive, so even if it's supposed to kill a Mamoswine easily, it can be also worn out and even lured by something else. In general, yes Rotom is a beast that kills Mamoswine on the spot (except for the quirky one I like with endeavor and wish support). This was also supporting the defensive Rotom, as seen above.

I can understand you passion about these things and I've faced similar opponents. Sometimes overthinking may lead you to do the wrong move or the correct one in situations that such a move would never be expected (for instance, I was even called "stupid" for staying in, predicting his prediction of me switching to Volcarona. I just had to be using Jellicent at the time, so their water move healed my mon and I killed them ). Hax is always there. Once, my Gengar got paralyzed for 7 turns in a row (guess what happened to the outcome of the match). I didn't tell you to take into consideration how people might play because I thought you were a beginner, it's just that when I create teams, I tend to think of gameplay at the same time, because it often seems that things that look nice on paper, might not have the expected outcome.

No no you got me wrong: I am not saying actual gameplay shouldn't be taken into account when teambuilding (hell, it would be a pretty silly thing to say), I am simply saying that, when I "take actual gameplay into account", that is usually limited to just the moves it would be logically optimal for most opponent to do. Trying to predict illogic moves is quite frustrating and can lead to overthinking, on the account that illogic moves are unpredictable by definition... Incidentally, this is what makes this a game: I mean, if only the logically impeccable moves were permitted, then there would be no need for a human player, a computer could simply be programmed to pit two teams against one another, calculate the strategies and the switches each team would pull, and declare the winner. A good player is a player who knows when it's time to dare thinking outside the box and pulling unpredictable tactics, which is why I never insult people for pulling stunts like the one you described involving Jellicent (even if I of course get mad at the most outrageous ones, like the Thunder in Sun thing above, I just don't vent my frustration by insulting opponents).

So yeah, my point in the end is: it is a good thing (and indeed, a necessity) to try and get prepared for a wide array of situations when teambuilding, but you cannot possibly be prepared for everything... But I am fraid we are digressing a bit too much now