Excessum League Team needs help

[Sutoratosu]

Alright, Soldiers... I'm going to try my hand at challenging the Excessum league to make up for Stratos never getting around to taking on the Reborn League back when it was still around. The following are currently what I'm considering using for it (I have yet to actually sign up). I warn you though, many, hell, ALL of these have little rhyme or reason behind why I'm thinking of using them other than they just popped into my head randomly. most of them have just been ripped from the campus of Smogon University and Tweaked a little.

In your advice on how to improve it, do keep in mind that it has to conform to the Excessum League Regulations (IE, Challengers can't have Megas or Legends)

Erce (Scizor) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Technician

EVs: 176 HP / 104 Atk / 228 SDef

Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

- Swords Dance

- Roost

- Bullet Punch

- Knock Off

Notes: A set meant to be used for a Scizor equip to Mega Evolve that I nabbed off smogon and then tweaked a bit... don't really know why I'm even considering it aside from a tribute to something.

Talonflame (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Gale Wings

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Brave Bird

- Flare Blitz

- Roost

- U-turn

Notes: Your classic Talonflame load out, soldier. Just like the one I used back during the Nation War while in the service of Volcanic. This old bastard has carried me through in the past, and I'm hoping it'll be able to do it again in the future.

Greninja (M) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Protean

EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Scald

- Dark Pulse

- U-turn

- Extrasensory

Notes: Your classic Greninja Load out. I first found out about this back when Vermilion had Dark Types at our disposle for the first time. Makes a good Special Sweeper in the right circumstances

Vinny (Weavile) (M) @ Life Orb

Trait: Pressure

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

- Knock Off

- Ice Shard

- Ice Punch

- Low Kick

Notes: I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist naming it...anyway, another one that was just straight stolen from Smogon, meant to be used as a revenge killer against dragon typed sweepers like Garchomp and Salamence, with Priority Ice Shard packing the hurt.

Torterra (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Shell Armor

EVs: 252 Atk / 56 Def / 176 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Curse

- Earthquake

- Synthesis

- Wood Hammer

Notes: Needed something to cover Electric Types and Water as well. My attempt to assemble a self repairing tank.

The Wrath (Salamence) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Moxie

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Dragon Dance

- Dragon Claw

- Earthquake

- Fire Fang

Notes: This one... this guy right here, we go waaaay far back. Meant to be a Physical Sweeper, I like to go with Leftovers over Life Orb because in my past experiences, doing so makes him last a little longer so that we can deal out hurt for even longer if we manage to get set up.

Well, there they are, Soldiers. That's my load out, I've used it a few times in test battles, and quite frankly aren't satisfied with the results. Any suggestions to improve it for the challenges ahead?

[Felicity]

Hmmm. In terms of how the overall team looks, you need to cover general bases a lot more, Grab a special wall that really just focuses on eating the hits, maybe something that covers ice types wel. I personally like Slowking for that what with it's great typing and Movepool/recovery. I'd suggest replacing Erce/Talon seeing as they essentially do the exact same job but Talon pt in a lot f work for thse who Vs Cedar.. Furthermore,you have no support, no HBeller, which is dangerous on a team like this which focuses on hitting hard and fast and can be easily crippled with statuses. Mabe a chansey would do well. Also, try putting on some more coverage for triples. EQ is decent, but if the Flying leader decides it's triples time, you're boned

[Sutoratosu]

Hmmm. In terms of how the overall team looks, you need to cover general bases a lot more, Grab a special wall that really just focuses on eating the hits, maybe something that covers ice types wel. I personally like Slowking for that what with it's great typing and Movepool/recovery. I'd suggest replacing Erce/Talon seeing as they essentially do the exact same job but Talon pt in a lot f work for thse who Vs Cedar.. Furthermore,you have no support, no HBeller, which is dangerous on a team like this which focuses on hitting hard and fast and can be easily crippled with statuses. Mabe a chansey would do well. Also, try putting on some more coverage for triples. EQ is decent, but if the Flying leader decides it's triples time, you're boned

Alright, Corporal, I'll get to looking for a suitable wall/ Blissey along with something to replace Erce with.

Anyone else with suggestions? Don't be shy now, Soldiers...

[Azeria]

Hmm

It's cool,hoewever the leaders also challenge in doubles and triples and most of your moves are single target..

I'd recommend giving Salamence heat wave,before using dragon dance its more powerfull and can hit both opponents so your better of using that.Surf on Greninja would be better if it didnt hit your Mons aswell but Scald works just fine

Also this was posted during League hours by the mascot;"Cedar never participates in singles"

Edited November 9, 2014 by Can't Type

[Sutoratosu]

Hmm

It's cool,hoewever the leaders also challenge in doubles and triples and most of your moves are single target..

I'd recommend giving Salamence heat wave,before using dragon dance its more powerfull and can hit both opponents so your better of using that.Surf on Greninja would be better if it didnt hit your Mons aswell but Scald works just fine

Alright, good, good...

As for the Wall and Heal bell issue Dobby pointed out, I'm considering this:

(Going to Replace Erce) Blissey running Thunder Wave, Soft Boiled, Heal Bell, and Toxic/ Seismic Toss

I'm still trying to decide between Seismic toss or toxic.

[Azeria]

Alright, good, good...

As for the Wall and Heal bell issue Dobby pointed out, I'm considering this:

(Going to Replace Erce) Blissey running Thunder Wave, Soft Boiled, Heal Bell, and Toxic/ Seismic Toss

I'm still trying to decide between Seismic toss or toxic.

If you don't want to be completely shut down by taunt i'd say seismic toss

[Sutoratosu]

Then how about running

Toxic

Seismic toss

Soft Boiled

Heal bell

That way I can just sit there and either wait it out while healing when needed (Unless of course, I run into something with magic Bounce/ Taunt), or wail with ST.

EDIT: still trying to think of what I can do for more Multi Target moves...

[Felicity]

Rock slide, a blizzarder, Heatwave, Hyper voicers. Mega gardevoir could help you cover your special side, it gets Heal bell, wish, it's stupid strong on the special side.

[Azeria]

Uh mega gardevoir isnt allowed iirc

[Felicity]

Derp, I was thinking straight OU. Regardless, Gardevoir still fits the bill whilst having attacking power.

[Sutoratosu]

Now there's one question... who to replace with it? Erce has already been 86'd in favor of Blissey.

[Felicity]

I;d say Vinny. With his move set, he's kinda meh. Ideally, you want to lead with it, Sash it, set up an SD then proceed to Beat up anything that come your way. If you changed his moveset, then I'd replace Torterra. Especially if you give the gardevoir a grass move as coverage. (Ideally you'd gice her a coverage moveset in this case so you can swap between Life orb to hit hard, and lefties to maintain survivability.)

[Sutoratosu]

Alright, I've swapped up Vinny's moveset to make him more suitable to leading. As for the Gardevoir, how does the move set of Psychic/ Calm Mind, Moonblast, Energy Ball, and Hyper Voice sound?

[Sutoratosu]

I don't really get what you mean by the first part of that sentence, soldier, but anyway, here's the team as it currently stands:

Vinny (Weavile) (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Pressure

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Swords Dance

- Ice Shard

- Beat Up

- Aerial Ace

Talonflame (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Gale Wings

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Brave Bird

- Flare Blitz

- Roost

- U-turn

Greninja (M) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Protean

EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Scald

- Dark Pulse

- U-turn

- Extrasensory

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 104 HP / 152 Def / 252 SDef

Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)

- Toxic

- Soft-Boiled

- Seismic Toss

- Heal Bell

Friend (Gardevoir) (F) @ Life Orb

Trait: Trace

EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Psychic

- Hyper Voice

- Moonblast

- Energy Ball

The Wrath (Salamence) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Moxie

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Dragon Dance

- Dragon Claw

- Earthquake

- Fire Fang

I just got through a bit more testing and it seems like it can hold it's own rather well

[Felicity]

Well without the pixilate, I don't know how effective Hyper voice can be, but the only thing I can see that is weird is that Blisseys EV distribution. It can't eat physical hits anyway, so why put investment there anyway? Personally, I'd max out the health, but hey, that's not the important part, that can be swapped up anytime. Moves cannot. Overall, looks good. to me.

[Azeria]

I'd say replace Moonblast for Dazzling Gleam

It has slightly less power but it hits both opponents

[Tomas Elliot]

Something I thought I'd point out: Grass resists Electric. So you don't need the (rather awful) Torterra to take on Electric and Water (against which by the way Torterra is only neutral), just about any Grass-type will do, without the need for the crippling 4x weakness to Ice. So yeah, next time you need something to wall Electric and Water attacks, consider a pure Grass or Poisom/Grass Pokemon, like Tangrowth, Roserade or Venusaur for the job... Two resistances are better than an immunity and a neutrality with added crippling weakness to Ice!

I just felt the need to point this out because I find the "must have immunity to counter effectively" mentality to be rather harmful, and I want to help people to realize that it is better to ditch it... As long as you have bulk and recovery, you can effectively tank hits you are neutral to, let alone resistant! You don't need the extra immunity to tank effectively, specially if it comes at the cost of a crippling 4x weakness to a commonly used coverage type (mot Electric Pokemon have HP Ice, and most Water ones have Ice Beam).

So yeah, I know you have removed Torterra in the last version of your team, but I felt I had to address the reasoning that lead to you including it in the first place...

[Sutoratosu]

Something I thought I'd point out: Grass resists Electric. So you don't need the (rather awful) Torterra to take on Electric and Water (against which by the way Torterra is only neutral), just about any Grass-type will do, without the need for the crippling 4x weakness to Ice. So yeah, next time you need something to wall Electric and Water attacks, consider a pure Grass or Poisom/Grass Pokemon, like Tangrowth, Roserade or Venusaur for the job... Two resistances are better than an immunity and a neutrality with added crippling weakness to Ice!

I just felt the need to point this out because I find the "must have immunity to counter effectively" mentality to be rather harmful, and I want to help people to realize that it is better to ditch it... As long as you have bulk and recovery, you can effectively tank hits you are neutral to, let alone resistant! You don't need the extra immunity to tank effectively, specially if it comes at the cost of a crippling 4x weakness to a commonly used coverage type (mot Electric Pokemon have HP Ice, and most Water ones have Ice Beam).

So yeah, I know you have removed Torterra in the last version of your team, but I felt I had to address the reasoning that lead to you including it in the first place...

Alright, well thank you for the advice anyway, Soldier. Again, many of them just randomly popped into my head at first and I just went with them because I couldn't think of anything else.

And a thanks to all of you who contributed pointers to this. Teams looking good, only thing left to do is see about swapping Moon Blast for Dazzling gleam, and adjusting Blissey's EV spread (Which as the corporal pointed out can be changed any time)

[Felicity]

I'm not gonna lie, it's a solid team, but I can see it being drop kicked by a mono weather team in the right hands which we will have to face.

[Sutoratosu]

I'm not gonna lie, it's a solid team, but I can see it being drop kicked by a mono weather team in the right hands which we will have to face.

I'll try to become skilled enough to achieve victory even in such a situation then, Corporal.

[Felicity]

I'll try to become skilled enough to achieve victory even in such a situation then, Corporal.

We all will.

[Sheep]

Hmm... ok Strat let me help you out a bit.

I participated quite successfully in the Reborn League when it was still running, and did a lot of talking with Fezz about what was important and what wasn't when regarding the unique challenge that a league provides. I personally think there are 4 things that are essential for any team, a pokemon with a fast taunt/reliable sleeping move, a pokemon with priority, plenty of moves that hit multiple pokemon, and good team synergy. What I mean by synergy is that you'll be using moves that hit yourself A LOT, you want to minimize that damage. Running sludge wave? Bring a steel type. Running surf? Bring dry skin. Make sure for every AOE move you run that you have a pokemon able to catch it without too much trouble on your own end.

Secondly you'll be fighting in doubles/triples as much or more than you will singles. This means that you should never bring a dedicated wall on a league team unless it can put in work in doubles/triples. Walls are invaluable for singles teams but when there's more than one on each side that Blissey can be hit by physical attacks fairly easily. Blissey is a good example of a pokemon you don't want to bring. As an example of something you could use effectively I'll highlight Milotic. It has access to great special bulk and recover, but can also utilize surf and blizzard while wearing an assault vest or some choice specs for double/triple battles. This isn't me saying use Milotic, I'm just trying to emphasize the importance of making sure each pokemon on your team can hit hard with at least one attack.

Next, you won't need to specify your EVs, items, abilities, or natures as those things are able to be changed between matches. The only things you need to present are your pokemon and their moves.

Finally your actual pokemon.

Weavile's a great pokemon for league but not in the way you're using it. Weavile should probably be tweaked so that it carries taunt (important so that your opponent cant use trick room against you easily) as well as knock off for beat up. Ice shard might be good to keep because priority's important, but you have a Talonflame so ice punch is also an option. For the last move I'd recommend running low kick. Fighting type coverage is generally best for Weavile, and low kick is usually the best move it gets for that.

Talonflame's a great pokemon for league as well. Yours looks good, don't hesitate to slap a choice band on it if you know you're going up against someone you have a type advantage against.

Greninja's also a great pokemon for league. Scald should be replaced with surf. U-turn or extrasensory should be replaced with mat block.

Blissey should go.

Gardevoir is ok I guess. I probably wouldn't run hyper voice or energy ball though. Focus blast is generally good for these sorts of 'mons, so's shadow ball but it isn't essential. The problem here is just like with Talonflame and Weavile it's only hitting one pokemon.

Salamence looks fine to me. Don't be scared to forgo dragon dance by scarfing it or banding it for a match if you decide you need the extra stats to deal with a specific thing that's giving you trouble.

Overall, you don't have enough moves that hit multiple pokemon. In particular look for moves of fire, ground, rock, ice, fighting, and flying as these are the best offensive types. From that perspective maybe blizzard would be a good bring on Greninja, and you should look to get some rock or fighting in here.

[Sutoratosu]

Why thank you for the advice from your own experience with League challenges, Sheep. I'll get to implementing a few more changes tommorow and doing more testing.

[Guzam]

Let me just say something now. Hitmontop...is cool. Fake Out, Helping Hand, Wide Guard and Close Combat all make for great support when needed, especially when you run something like, say Choice Scarf Heat Wave Chandelure. My favorite leading strat for triples is Hitmontop (Left), Chandelure (Middle), Whimsicott (Right). Whimsicott sets up sunny day, Hitmontop uses helping hand on Chandy, Chandy uses Heat Wave, Destruction ensues. Whimsicott is also nice for leech seed, substitute if needed, and can hurt water types with giga drain and sunny day. Ground types don't do much to it either...If I had to pick three other pokes...pick ones that counter fire types, like dragon, rock, and other fire types. That's all I have to suggest tho.