Opinions on Team Meteor

[Sarun]

Evasion is fake difficulty. I don't think Ame would do that.

Evasion's also frustrating and generally considered to be un-competitive due to being RNG-based and thus not used and often banned in competitive circles. Since Reborn attempts to create a Pokemon game with a competitive-like atmosphere, putting excessive evasion as a gimmick would likely be a no-no.

[Sheep]

Evasion is fake difficulty. I don't think Ame would do that.

*Cough hack* already been done *splutter cough wheeze* you should know about it *bark cough rasp.*

[Rawr-Ma-Ama]

Hm, a sandstorm field effect that makes things like Sand Veil boost evasion by like 75%....

Evasion is fake difficulty. I don't think Ame would do that.

Don´t say that, she might still do it because someone said she wouldn´t do it. Don´t encourage her to even think about this >___< *looks around carefully* Ame, you saw nothing! There is no Sandveil-Garchomp+Sand-Field+75% evasion! D:

Edited December 8, 2014 by UnprofessionalAmateur

[Sarun]

*Cough hack* already been done *splutter cough wheeze* you should know about it *bark cough rasp.*

The issue about RNG-based mechanics is that adding a little of it doesn't really make much of a problem, like how Charlotte's field added that annoying steam side-effect. The issue happens when the RNG becomes what completely decides the game and makes your choices secondary to luck. Charlotte's field needed the player to use water moves to trigger, and even then it wasn't that problematic as unless your were spamming water-type moves, the field would take no effect. Samson's gym gets a little more annoying, but it's only for certain moves and according to Ame that's as far as she'll go when it comes to RNG. Adding a little randomness is fun, but when the game begins to be decided by die rolls rather than tactics is when the amount of RNG in a game should be cut back.

[Azeria]

The issue about RNG-based mechanics is that adding a little of it doesn't really make much of a problem, like how Charlotte's field added that annoying steam side-effect. The issue happens when the RNG becomes what completely decides the game and makes your choices secondary to luck. Charlotte's field needed the player to use water moves to trigger, and even then it wasn't that problematic as unless your were spamming water-type moves, the field would take no effect. Samson's gym gets a little more annoying, but it's only for certain moves and according to Ame that's as far as she'll go when it comes to RNG. Adding a little randomness is fun, but when the game begins to be decided by die rolls rather than tactics is when the amount of RNG in a game should be cut back.

Episode 10 Serra.Nuff Said.

[Sarun]

Episode 10 Serra.Nuff Said.

Which is why Ame is completely revamping that fight. Nowadays it's almost universally agreed that a game that is too dependent on its pseudo-random number generator is considered to be shoddily designed, and some games aiming for maximum competitiveness such as League of Legends completely eschew its usage.

[NickCrash]

Am I the only one who's afraid of a battle based on luck in the new Glitch field? What if a Meteor challenges us in a Metronome fight?

To be honest, the sand team was obvious, but it's still one of the most feared tactics around, given the pokemon the Meteors can use.
Tyranitar, Garchomp, possibly Aegislash-Alakazam-Excadrill-another Garchomp

[DJ Mewdeon ft Dan Punk]

Which is why Ame is completely revamping that fight. Nowadays it's almost universally agreed that a game that is too dependent on its pseudo-random number generator is considered to be shoddily designed, and some games aiming for maximum competitiveness such as League of Legends completely eschew its usage.

..... what?

First of all, League of Legends continues to have critical hits, which are definitely RNG-dependent, so I don't see how they're 'completely eschewing its usage.'

Secondly, many games are continued to be designed and developed with heavy influence (some even completely relying on or otherwise based around) on RNG systems, such as the many different kinds of indie roguelikes which are still popular. Just take a look at Binding of Issac for example: a game entirely based on procedurally generated content with a massive following and many positive reviews. I highly doubt that this game is universally considered to be 'shoddily designed', because it delivers an experience with huge replay value to the reviewers and I personally know a bunch of people on Reborn that got hooked to that game.

[Sarun]

..... what?

First of all, League of Legends continues to have critical hits, which are definitely RNG-dependent, so I don't see how they're 'completely eschewing its usage.'

Secondly, many games are continued to be designed and developed with heavy influence (some even completely relying on or otherwise based around) on RNG systems, such as the many different kinds of indie roguelikes which are still popular. Just take a look at Binding of Issac for example: a game entirely based on procedurally generated content with a massive following and many positive reviews. I highly doubt that this game is universally considered to be 'shoddily designed', because it delivers an experience with huge replay value to the reviewers and I personally know a bunch of people on Reborn that got hooked to that game.

While LoL uses a system involving critical hit, Riot has been minimizing it's influence ever since the game's release. For example, pre-rework Sion's passive and Gangplank's ult were very RNG reliant, but now they were modified and have no randomness at all. Also the critical hit algorithm in LoL is not perfectly random. There are checks and balances to prevent issues such as a champion getting extremely lucky or unlucky with the RNG, so you will not see things like a champion with a single-digit crit percent critically hitting more than once in a row, which would likely mean a lane won from the start purely out of RNG. The game still has some randomness, but it's a very much a non-issue, to the point that bad RNG almost never decides matches, unlike in competitive battling where a missed Fire Blast can potentially decide a match.

For your second point, I meant as in a game in whether the win or lose conditions, not just anywhere in game itself, is dependent on RNG. For example, while BoI has RNG in generating the map layout, the game-play itself is still entirely skill-based. If a projectile connects to an object, it will always count for the same amount of damage regardless of the circumstances, thus there is no interference of randomness in the game's outcome of win or loss. As you have said, RNG does offer fun as it can really shake a game up, the issue comes as when RNG begins to overtake player skill in determining whether the player wins or loses. Winning a game based on RNG provides no sense of self-fulfillment, while losing a game based on RNG provides frustration. Summarizing it, there is good RNG, which can be used to reduce repetitiveness in a game and make it more entertaining, and bad RNG, which turns the game into a crap-shoot and may just give out frustration and no sense of self-fulfillment.

Sorry if I sounded too ambiguous and generalizing on the above post, though.

[NickCrash]

Excuse me but RNG is also a part of the game. If you want to play safe, choose moves with a lower miss rate. It's a risk, and by implementing such moves (hydropump=110BP,80%acc - - - surf=90BP,100%acc) they have the "risk factor", which you take into consideration.

Back to the Meteors?

[Amethyst]

In an ideal world games will function without luck.

League is closer to that world. Pokemon is not going to get there any time soon. I try and stay away from luck-based mechanics as much as possible but sometimes they're too thematically valuable to pass up. Even then I try to make sure the impact is minimal (surf activating steam in Charlotte's field three times per use is... not intended, and will eventually be fixed).

Part of why I'm excited for Starlight though...

[AuthorReborn]

Let's try and stay on topic here, fellas. This is a discussion about Team Meteor, not Power vs. Accuracy or LoL, or even about a potential 100% evasion chance field effect. It's about Team Meteor.

Also, I feel the need to get us back to subject so I'm personally looking forward to how the other Admins will respond to the death of a certain double-battle admin who may have had their soul melted away, specifically Taka, although ZEL will be interesting and the deceased Admin's partner. I am kinda wondering how much longer Taka will be able to handle being on the Meteor's since, despitre his father. He could just make like Heather and fly away only this time on that infernal Chatot so I never have to deal with it when it gets Boomburst. And you know it will.

Also, quick opinion question, do you think a certain Swag Jockey will be replacing the aforementioned Admin in the doubles battles?

[Azeria]

Let's try and stay on topic here, fellas. This is a discussion about Team Meteor, not Power vs. Accuracy or LoL, or even about a potential 100% evasion chance field effect. It's about Team Meteor.

Also, I feel the need to get us back to subject so I'm personally looking forward to how the other Admins will respond to the death of a certain double-battle admin who may have had their soul melted away, specifically Taka, although ZEL will be interesting and the deceased Admin's partner. I am kinda wondering how much longer Taka will be able to handle being on the Meteor's since, despitre his father. He could just make like Heather and fly away only this time on that infernal Chatot so I never have to deal with it when it gets Boomburst. And you know it will.

Also, quick opinion question, do you think a certain Swag Jockey will be replacing the aforementioned Admin in the doubles battles?

It already has......

[NickCrash]

It is possible that they try to substitute Eclipse, but then the two admins do not get along, so Aster continues to fight solo in doubles.

Edited December 8, 2014 by nickcrash

[Sarun]

Let's try and stay on topic here, fellas. This is a discussion about Team Meteor, not Power vs. Accuracy or LoL, or even about a potential 100% evasion chance field effect. It's about Team Meteor.

Also, I feel the need to get us back to subject so I'm personally looking forward to how the other Admins will respond to the death of a certain double-battle admin who may have had their soul melted away, specifically Taka, although ZEL will be interesting and the deceased Admin's partner. I am kinda wondering how much longer Taka will be able to handle being on the Meteor's since, despitre his father. He could just make like Heather and fly away only this time on that infernal Chatot so I never have to deal with it when it gets Boomburst. And you know it will.

Also, quick opinion question, do you think a certain Swag Jockey will be replacing the aforementioned Admin in the doubles battles?

Taka will most likely be horrified at Solaris' actions, considering how he's the most ethical high-ranking member of the organization we have seen so far. For ZEL, considering that we have an individual with three different personalities in our case I'd say that they will likely have varying reactions, though most likely neutral putting past events in mind. I'd say that it's still to early for Taka to rebel against his father, and that will probably happen some time around end-game. Though this is Reborn, so everything's possible.

At the moment Fern's a complete wild card in Team Meteor. Since Fern is a strong trainer, then chances are that he'll easily rise upon the ranks of Team Meteor. But personally I think that he may end up somewhere above Aster, possibly falling around close to ZEL.

[Gaunt]

At the moment Fern's a complete wild card in Team Meteor. Since Fern is a strong trainer, then chances are that he'll easily rise upon the ranks of Team Meteor. But personally I think that he may end up somewhere above Aster, possibly falling around close to ZEL.

Fern and strong should never be in the same sentence no really for me he was weaker than Aster&Eclipse but i agree that it's probably too soon for Taka to rebel (if that ever happens)

[Dei]

Next field effect Ame introduces: "[Player] Loses".

I bet that the last field effect in the post game will be something like this, but where your pokemon faints each turn it's on the field and the opponent's pokemon will be a bunch of level 1 caterpie or something with protect...

[AuthorReborn]

I bet that the last field effect in the post game will be something like this, but where your pokemon faints each turn it's on the field and the opponent's pokemon will be a bunch of level 1 caterpie or something with protect...

Shade Rematch, watch it happen.

[Myst]

Ah the evasion thing wasnt to be taken serious ;p , Such tactics arent too fun in a game.

Hm, I cant entirely see some of the members getting along with fern.

[Rawr-Ma-Ama]

Ah the evasion thing wasnt to be taken serious ;p , Such tactics arent too fun in a game.

Hm, I cant entirely see some of the members getting along with fern.

Well, that´s something I´d still expect from this game, but if y´all don´t want RNG, then I´m happy.

I can see Sirius´ Chandelure burning another soul

I can see Solaris´ Garchomp having fun again

Just kidding. Fern´s gonna disrespect Lin. Dunno what´ll happen then, but guessing from what I´ve seen that woman doing with that massive steelix, it might not be pretty.

Edited December 9, 2014 by UnprofessionalAmateur

[NickCrash]

A douche-off? No, Fern isn't stupid. Well, he might be. He chose Grass as his signature type.

[Sarun]

Fern and strong should never be in the same sentence no really for me he was weaker than Aster&Eclipse but i agree that it's probably too soon for Taka to rebel (if that ever happens)

I meant canon-wise. Since he has already beaten several gym leaders as of the end of EP. 13 then it's highly probable that his battling ability rivals those of Taka or ZEL, or even surpasses them.

[Myst]

And then he becomes second in command in meteor.

[AuthorReborn]

I could definitely see Fern at least replacing Taka if he decides he can't put up with it (Lin's Regime) anymore.

Edited December 10, 2014 by AuthorReborn

[Alilatias]

Checking the TV broadcasts when I first reached Ameterine City, one of them mentions 'anonymous tips' about there still being a Meteor base inside Reborn City itself. Although it seems like this message for some reason stops playing as soon as you either beat Blake or Terra (it goes back to talking about the Calcenon barrier, the exact same broadcast you see at Amaria's house for the first time).

If I had to guess, since we got the Waterfall HM and I doubt Terra will be explaining what the heck is going on in Agate City just yet, we're finally about to go after Amaria and Titania. Down to the Water Treatment Center... Likely to be a Meteor stronghold. And we know Titania has some relation to the Meteors...

(Also, try revisiting a certain presumably deceased person's house after the events at Ameterine Mountain. Although it's pretty buggy, the cutscene replays itself every time you exit and re-enter.)

Edited December 11, 2014 by Alilatias