Suspect Suggestion Thread

[Sparky]

Hmm, Anyone think Mega Pinsir should be suspected?

[Shadow Tack]

^mega pinsir may be able to sweep a team but it dies instantly to most OU mons ie zard/lando/tflame/every mon w/ a rock move. Not every mon is OHKO'd, hell plenty of them eat a hit.

[Sparky]

^mega pinsir may be able to sweep a team but it dies instantly to most OU mons ie zard/lando/tflame/every mon w/ a rock move. Not every mon is OHKO'd, hell plenty of them eat a hit.

Mega Pinsir is faster than Zard and Landorus :I

[Deleted User]

There's a reason Pinsir is #70 in usage last month. It can be easily countered with quite a few mons.

[DJ Mewdeon ft Dan Punk]

Mega Pinsir is faster than Zard and Landorus :I

Mega Pinsir is faster than unboosted Megazard X, Megazard Y and bulkier Landorus-T spreads, but boosted Megazard X can ohko with any viable Fire type move, and bulky Megazard X spreads can take a hit and ohko back when both are unboosted.

Most of the Landorus-Ts in the metagame are scarfed and outspeed and ohko if carrying Stone Edge.

The bulky SR Landorus-T can eat even the +1 Return and ohko with Stone Edge.

[Tomas Elliot]

I had many things to say about the points that were made about the UU tier since my last post... But unfortunately I have no time since I am back in my hometown for Xmas, and I have kinda lagged behind... I am sorry but I have to drop out the discussion :/

[Meruem]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-oras-ou-suspect-testing-round-1-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles.3525033/

for anyone who still doesn't think greninja is too good to remain in OU

Edited December 25, 2014 by MMM

[Deleted User]

Welp, it certainly seems like smogon will be banning Greninja, which in the mean time means Reborn will too since we're currently using strictly smogon tiers.

[Azeria]

RIP Greninja

2013-2015

May your Speed be critical and your Hydro Pumps Never Miss in the Uber tier!

[Chase]

I do find it interesting that Smogon -itself- is suspecting Greninja this soon. Not because it wasn't inevitable, but I would have thought Reborn would have suspected it first.

I don't really have a preference personally. I know a few psuedo checks, and it's easy to revenge kill it if need be, at least in my opinion. I do think it's movepool and Protean make it disgustingly good.

[Azeria]

I do find it interesting that Smogon -itself- is suspecting Greninja this soon. Not because it wasn't inevitable, but I would have thought Reborn would have suspected it first.

I don't really have a preference personally. I know a few psuedo checks, and it's easy to revenge kill it if need be, at least in my opinion. I do think it's movepool and Protean make it disgustingly good.

Remember when everyone thought Froakie was ugly?

Yeah this is his form of retaliation.

[NickCrash]

I have no problems in OU, whether Greninja is there or not. It wouldn't hurt if they brought Blaziken back or upgrade some UU pokemon in OU, like Donphan or Lucario.

My problem is with lower tiers which seem neglected.

In my opinion the following pokemon should move to UU: Clawitzer, Gallade

Clawitzer, because it's ability gives it a great offensive boost. If you invest in Defense or Special defense and give it AV, it can become problematic for most teams and dominate the RU tier, where it now resides.

Gallade, due to its new mega. This thing got the boosts it needed both in Atk and in Def, and its movepool guarantees several kills

[Deleted User]

The problem with Clawitzer is it doesn't have the speed or bulk to make in in OU. Not by a long shot.

Gallade, I agree should be in OU. It's Mega has already worked it all the way up from RU to BL, and it reaches that viable speed tier of 110 Base that allows it to contend, especially with that massive attack and ample coverage.

[Sonikku]

Tier doesn't compute viability. If a pokemon is a bit lower in the tiers, that doesn't mean they were neglected. That only gives you more places to use it, and you can catch your opponent off guard.

[Azeria]

Tier doesn't compute viability. If a pokemon is a bit lower in the tiers, that doesn't mean they were neglected. That only gives you more places to use it, and you can catch your opponent off guard.

You should also know that Gallade already was a monster in RU.Bulk up and Sub along with its already good special defense lets it just set up a sub Bulk Up once or twice depending if the sub is already alive and then kill it with Drain Punch or if it resists that Knock off.

[Chase]

M-Gallade, iirc, was an A+ pokemon in terms of viability. It's earned the overused title.

Sad to see one of my favorite RU mons leave, but the sheer power along with the bit of bulk and noticeable speed increase upon mega evolution is a thing of beauty.

[Lord Bagel]

I don't find mega gallade terribly great but I do think it has a place in ou for sure. It gets off a swords dance quite easily by scaring some threats off and with nice coverage can do some good work against many teams. Like all pokemon it has checks but anything under ou I find Gallade would become a bit over powered. The speed boost is what really makes Gallade worth while to be honest. Gallade doesn't get revenge killed nearly as easily given the nice jump.

[NickCrash]

I was suggesting we put both of them in UU, because regular Gallade doesn't do much in OU.
Clawitzer should be in UU. We could put Gallade in UU or BL.

[Azeria]

You know,If Greninja does Get banned,Mega Slowbro might become all that more dangerous.Greninja is a decent check to Slowbro in that as long as MegaBro hasnt set up yet it gets 2HKO'd by the Dark Pulse with a 31% Change for the OHKO.

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 351-413 (89.3 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

(351, 354, 359, 361, 367, 369, 374, 377, 382, 385, 390, 393, 398, 400, 406, 413)

Keep in mind that said Damage Calc does not have Mega Slowbro in there yet so i put in Mega Bros Stats.

Taunt does shut it down completely so that's a blabant counter.Sableye is a blabant counter in both forms,though only if it runs taunt as otherwise,Slowbro can and probably will set up calm minds.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Can't Type

[Deleted User]

Mega Slowbro isn't getting enough attention main stream yet, but there's been talk in certain circles about that thing potentially getting banned with Greninja still around. It's incredibly bulky, combined with Calm Mind, and Shell Armor, it can become nearly impossible to kill. That Calc assume that it wouldn't have a Calm Mind already up against Greninja. Also Greininja is seldom 252 SpA anymore these days.

[NickCrash]

Greninja shouldn't be banned. I've been playing in showdown these days that Gren left, and I see several combos rise, which Greninja usually checks. The most evident one is M-Metagross/Heatran combination. More people tend to use these now.

M-Slowbro isn't that hard to handle. It is a defensive pokemon, but even so, hard hitters bring it down really fast. It causes problems only if you have a really defensive team, but even so, toxic makes it a timed bomb. I don't recall ever having serious problems with it.

[Deleted User]

You're talking about a combo opposed to a single individual pokemon though. The point of the game is TEAMwork.

Toxic? You do know that Crobro is a thing don't you?

[NickCrash]

Yes, I'm talking about a combo opposed to a single pokemon. As Greninja is glue to fill the holes of teams, it's there, like many others, to disrupt the combos between enemy members. Just like Rotom-W stops a combo of Landorus/Keldeo, as it checks and shuts off both, Greninja was feared, so the combo Heatran/Metagross wasn't applied much. Metagame is all about combos. That's why you don't just take 6 individually strong pokemon and call it a team.

When speaking of suspect test, you should take all sides into consideration. Let's see what Greninja really does.

It can be three things offensively:

a) A full special sweeper, with or without u-turn, usually carrying a choice specs or scarf

A physical attacker

c) A mixed grill

Choices b and c are not quite frequent, as Greninja is outclassed by other physical attackers and may serve just for a suprise attack. This can work only if applied mid-game, which is nearly impossible, since he'll have to appear when things get tough. He's there to get you out of the tight place, remember? Mixed doesn't work EV-wise, because it limits Greninja's destructive power.

So let's go to the usual and most frightening set that causes this suspect test; the special

Common set: Hydro Pump/Scald, Ice beam, Dark Pulse, Extrasensory/Spikes/U-turn

What does it do:
Mainly hit hard faster than the opponent. That means, it leaves no loose ends. If it can, it will kill you. If you change and your switch is not bulky enough to hit faster next turn, or take the hit, you'll have to end up dead and wait for your revenge killer. Awesome in the offensive.

But wait there's more!
That kind of thoughtless play actually proves to hinder teams outside of the field. When creating them in competitive play, people think of possible threats first. Some like to build around a certain pokemon, so to cover those threats, they would stop for a second and decide not to include some mon, that otherwise would make the spot, or put others, specially as a counter (which is an argument for suspect). Some others like to play around the members they choose in order to find out what suits their playstyle and to bring balance.

That said, Greninja limits the HO style some might choose, because it can be brought out to dish damage to pokemon relying solely on their speed, or worse attack or special attack. Most evident: it limits HO synergies (eg Latios&Volcarona&Landorus&&&...)

How can I NOT speak of combos?

Take a look at what used to happen a lot in Gen5. Dragons. Teams with 3 or more dragons that dominated the game. Even so, both teams had to make combos. The opposing team knew that the (then) almighty Garchomp or Hydreigon could sweep and prepared accordingly. Bronzong and Heatrans with balloons were more common than a mega is now (just saying), not to mention the necessity of bringing a Mamoswine to stop with priority ice shard, sometimes also banded. Now we have the same situation, just more balanced.

In the suspect test, most teams either have something to substitute Greninja, like Latios, or even Tornadus-t, or turn in general towards offense, seldom bulky.

About CroBro, I do know it's a thing and I've faced it a couple of times. It still didn't pose much threat. Taunt it, trick it, stick a water resistant pokemon against it, like Rotom-W or M-Venusaur, I still think it's not that great. I prefer normal bro, which can regenerate. The way I see it, it is not the monster they present it to be. Sure, if you let it calm mind more than you'd like, you can't crit your way through. If you wear it down fast enough, it doesn't have the time to rest or keep the health it gets from it.

It would be also devastating if it had a set: Calm Mind, Scald, Slack off, Trick Room.

You can use it with a clerk who'd get rid of status ailments or pass a wish (or a healing wish) to make it ready to battle, after the status-inducer is out of game.

eg Latias or Togekiss

this combo is a furious one, as it can change the course of the game

stopped by M-Manectric, Rotom-W, stalled by M-Venusaur,

Edited December 27, 2014 by nickcrash

[Cowtao]

Here's the issue we take with that.

Combo is known as core. Cores in the most basic style of OU matches are known as something to fill a purpose in a team like what used to be SkarmBliss or Gyaravire. They are cores to fill a purpose of either defensive or offensive capabilities.

Two. Dragons are still hella common. A few dragons have fallen in favor for others such as Hydreigon and Haxorus, but those dragons were already unpopular to begin with. Dragons have found a nice middle ground and are still common then you think.

Despite the other greninja sets becoming less popular, that's the whole point of a sub-set. It's a set you do not expect at all. You need to learn the concept of lure sets. Lure sets are sets that are typically not found on normal low ranked styles of play. But in tournaments and high ranked styles of play, it is common. They can consist of a pokemon that doesn't run the usual set it runs just to foil and potentially "lure" a pokemon into the wrong move. Popular examples include Magma Storm Heatran and Taunt/WoW Talonflame.

You need to take these considerations seriously and actually give us a legitimate reason to actually have use believe that nickcrash because I have every right to say what I just said because

A.) I have been in the low and high skills of play for OU and I have won a few minor tournaments.

B.) I have played with smogon rules for awhile now, so I know exactly how the metagame works and all the terms for it

C.) I have participated in a real suspect test, so I know exactly what to consider in each pokemon in terms of brokeness.

D.) I take this seriously because this is something that is important to get right. Nobody likes to play a broken tier.

Please take this seriously and look up things in more detail before you write a comment that doesn't make any sense. You need to be about it before you can say you are about it. I would want to see thoughtful output be brought into these threads. Thank you.

[Reignited'Light]

Mega Metagross.
(I don't think I saw anyone posted anything about Mega Metagross. So...)

It has a wide range of coverage moves just like Greninja.
Mega Metagross has a base speed of 110 reaching with Mega Gallade and the Latias/Latios family. So it's pretty damn fast.
There are ZERO checks to this monster. Metagross has plenty of coverage moves it can opt to use for the team. The rest of the coverage is with the other 5 pokemon you teamed with it.

You can't Intimidate it before it even Mega evolves, so Landorus-Therian is not a good check. It doesn't even OHKO Metagross.

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While Metagross nukes a standard Choice Scarf Landorus with Ice punch even with -1 atk
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 340-400 (106.5 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Metagross is usually paired with four or five other bulky offensive mons.
On top of that, most teams run Latias+Mega Metagross so Latias can heal back Metagross with Healing Wish, giving it another chance to nuke your entire team.
Mega Metagross is ridiculous. Not every team is going to run Slowbro or Skarmory to "counter" Mega Metagross.
Suspect please.