Competitive Convicts Weekly (Week 6, Nominate OU/UU Pokemon for Week 7)

[K_H]

Have I got a Counter for you, Mega Venusaur!

Mega Charizard Y @ Charizardite Y

Ability: Drought

EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 SpDef

Nature: Timid

Moves:

- Solar Beam

- Flamethrower

- Roost

- Filler Move

Even if Venusaur does have Sludge Bomb, MCharY can easily outspeed it and then give it the KO with a pair of Drought-boosted Flamethrowers. And even if Charizard does get hit by a Sludge Bomb on switch-in, it can still deliver the Flamethrower KO. Solar Beam is in there for Coverage to deal with those darned Rock and Water Types. Plus, it's boosted by Chari's Ability: Sunlight removes the charge time for Solar Beam, and Drought makes Sunlight the Active Weather Condition. Roost is there as a way to regain HP if you correctly predict a Switch on your opponent's part.

Things to watch out for:

Stealth Rocks. You'll want to steer clear of this Field Hazard; half of Chari's HP gets taken out due to his 4X weakness to the blasted thing.

Not even the Bulkiest Venusaur can withstand two Flamethrowers from Mega Charizard Y.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 218-260 (59.8 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 102-121 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see, even if Venu gets an early hit in on Chari, Chari will still get the KO on Venu because the pseudodragon outspeeds the dino, with 328 and 200 Speed at max IVs, respectively.

[Dragon God Goomy]

Mega Venu Counter

Staraptor

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Reckless

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Double-Edge

- Brave Bird

- Close Combat

- U-turn

Staraptor can take a Sludge Bomb while annihilating the Plantasourus Rex with boosted Brave Bird.

Check

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Bold Nature

- Heal Bell

- Wish

- Protect

- Seismic Toss

Blissey can tank anything Mega Venu throws, implying it doesn't have Sleep Powder and Leech Seed.

Tentacruel

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge

Ability: Liquid Ooze

EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD

- Scald

- Rapid Spin

- Sludge Bomb

- Knock Off

Same to Blissey.

Jirachi

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Serene Grace

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Iron Head

- U-turn

- Ice Punch

- Thunder Punch

Jirachi is immune to Sludge Bomb and resist grass moves, while can flinch Mega Venu with Serene Grace Iron Head.

(more coming soon, I guess. Just because there are a lot of counters and checks for Venusaur.)

[Sparky]

OU nom: Togekiss

UU nom: Mega Absol

[Chase]

I think I've decided to just use this guide for reference as I am pretty bad at coming up with my own checks and counters. Friendly reminder here, make sure your checks and counters are Pokémon that can be used in the tier - and I would strongly recommend that the Pokémon are viable on standard teams in the tier to begin with.

Vince made me remember with his Staraptor counter. He isn't being too outlandish, as Raptor is a healthy Borderline Pokémon (at least, it was the last time I checked...) and therefore really isn't not viable.

Also, Checks are things that are at risk upon being switched in by the convict, but are able to force the opponent out or will KO the convict if brought in safely. Counters completely place the convict in a pickle, being able to always pressure the convict even on risky switch ins.

I -will- however, nominate every week.

For OverUsed, I would like to see Azumarill, Keldeo, or Manaphy receive a court summons. Water is a very common type across the board, and there are plenty of aquatic weapons to choose from in the most popular tier.

and for Underused, I would like to see Infernape or Empoleon brought on trial. Sinnoh starters play some pretty critical roles here, and in their respective niches, they do a fantastic job.

[Dragon God Goomy]

I think I've decided to just use this guide for reference as I am pretty bad at coming up with my own checks and counters. Friendly reminder here, make sure your checks and counters are Pokémon that can be used in the tier - and I would strongly recommend that the Pokémon are viable on standard teams in the tier to begin with.

Vince made me remember with his Staraptor counter. He isn't being too outlandish, as Raptor is a healthy Borderline Pokémon (at least, it was the last time I checked...) and therefore really isn't not viable.

Also, Checks are things that are at risk upon being switched in by the convict, but are able to force the opponent out or will KO the convict if brought in safely. Counters completely place the convict in a pickle, being able to always pressure the convict even on risky switch ins.

I -will- however, nominate every week.

For OverUsed, I would like to see Azumarill, Keldeo, or Manaphy receive a court summons. Water is a very common type across the board, and there are plenty of aquatic weapons to choose from in the most popular tier.

and for Underused, I would like to see Infernape or Empoleon brought on trial. Sinnoh starters play some pretty critical roles here, and in their respective niches, they do a fantastic job.

I used Staraptor instead of Talonflame because there might be a chance that a healthy Mega Venu might live a Brave Bird from Talon. Talon might be viable as a check, but not as reliable as Blissey and Tentacruel does.

And surprise, I have no check and counter for Feraligatr, because my only counter for it is on one tier up.

[Deleted User]

Vince, Staraptor can't be considered a genuine counter.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 234-276 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yes, Offensive Mega Venusaur is a thing. 2nd set on smogon.

http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/venusaur

And Staraptor vs even defensive Venusaur.

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 174-205 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+25% from Rocks = 80.9% - 90.9%, then Brave Bird Recoil absolutely kills Staraptor as well. Even without Rocks Brave Bird Recoil does 39% Recoil and 50/50 kills Staraptor as well.

[Cowtao]

Just leaving nominations.

OU: Mega Gardevoir

UU: GATR TIME

[NickCrash]

PRETTY FLOWERS

Check:

Sableye @ Sablenite

Ability: Keen Eye

EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

Bold Nature

- Recover

- Shadow Ball

- Calm Mind

- Will-O-Wisp

We've already discussed about how destructive M-Sableye can be. Let it Calm Mind and your chances of suriving are slim to none. Even though Sableye can switch in to Venusaur, it will need to mega evolve first in order to be a viable counter. Otherwise precious turns are lost in Recover and you might give them an opportunity to switch. Leech seed on the switch in is also not welcome. You will make it in the end, but too much time and effort go wasted. However, if you're already a mega, and come in safely (to reduce time and recovers used) you've beaten the behemoth. The funny thing is the prediction game. At 0 Venu can do max 40%, which allows a Calm Mind and a subsequent Recover as the new damage input is about 27% maximum. From that point you've basically not only killed Venu, but changed the tables in your favor. There isn't actually much to add. Shadow ball does the rest. Keep Calm and... basically just keep calm.

Counter:

Dragonite @ Choice Band

Ability: Multiscale

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Adamant Nature

- Outrage

- ExtremeSpeed

- Fire Punch

- Superpower

Banded Dragonite can kill any variant of M-Venu as long as it's still in a good condition to fight. Multiscale helps survive. You can run either Jolly or Adamant, depending on how you want to use Dragonite. E-speed can help even after the 1v1 with Venusaur so Adamant is a good choice. Even adamant it will outspeed Venu, as they seldom use 252+. If they do, they won't have either enough power to hit back, or enough bulk to survive hits. Sludge bomb does 20-25% before Multiscale, and reaches 50% after that. Other variants of Dragonite can also work, like the specially defensive one, but they aren't so viable in OU. Outrage seals the deal.

Nominations:
OU -- Mega Slowbro

UU -- Noivern

[Chase]

Actually, Slowbro is a fantastic mon to investigate Regular AND Mega, just like Sableye.

[Dragon God Goomy]

Vince, Staraptor can't be considered a genuine counter.

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 234-276 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yes, Offensive Mega Venusaur is a thing. 2nd set on smogon.

http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/venusaur

And Staraptor vs even defensive Venusaur.

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 174-205 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+25% from Rocks = 80.9% - 90.9%, then Brave Bird Recoil absolutely kills Staraptor as well. Even without Rocks Brave Bird Recoil does 39% Recoil and 50/50 kills Staraptor as well.

Well. That was annoying.

With that Thick Fat on the way, Only Charizard can truly KO Venusaur.

Welp. There goes my counter got thrown on the window. Thanks, Jericho.

Counter:

3W4aNfu.gif

Dragonite @ Choice Band

Ability: Multiscale

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Adamant Nature

- Outrage

- ExtremeSpeed

- Fire Punch

- Superpower

Spoiler

Banded Dragonite can kill any variant of M-Venu as long as it's still in a good condition to fight. Multiscale helps survive. You can run either Jolly or Adamant, depending on how you want to use Dragonite. E-speed can help even after the 1v1 with Venusaur so Adamant is a good choice. Even adamant it will outspeed Venu, as they seldom use 252+. If they do, they won't have either enough power to hit back, or enough bulk to survive hits. Sludge bomb does 20-25% before Multiscale, and reaches 50% after that. Other variants of Dragonite can also work, like the specially defensive one, but they aren't so viable in OU. Outrage seals the deal.

A good Pokemon.....for check, not counter.

Why? Because Defensive Mega Venu exist, and it's there to ruin Dragonite's day with Sleep Powder and Leech Seed. It will be rendered helpless while being sucked to death.

Also, Fire Punch's super-effectiveness gets neutralized by Thick Fat, and Outrage can only 2HKO, even with Choice Band.

So overall, Dragonite will not work as a counter.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Ace_Trainer_Vince

[NickCrash]

Fire Punch is there because the set needs it. The move of choice is Outrage. Dragonite will live 1 hit upon entry and another after the first Outrage. Venusaur will have to faint after the 2nd outrage, otherwise every non-fairy that comes in is going to get some serious damage.

When creating a counter I thought of a Venusaur with 10 moves. It can't possibly have all of the following:
Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Synthesis, Leech Seed, Earthquake, HP fire, Sleep Powder, Roar, Knock Off, Rest

The bold ones are the ones I regarded as more common. The definite ones are Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb.

Having both Sleep Powder and Leech Seed can work for 1 pokemon. Then it's left with 3 moves.

Synthesis is an option that rivals Leech Seed but is the most probable. Therefore lets put a 75% that the 3rd move is Synthesis. Then we have 7 moves competing for 4th place. Most probable ones are HP fire, Leech Seed and EQ. Then Sleep Powder, Knock Off and Roar. Last, mostly unused but still an option: Rest

Having both Leech Seed and Sleep Powder is counter-productive imo, because Venu has to rely too much on RNG and can't really survive if one pokemon is already asleep. + the chance of Sleep Powder being on the 4th slot when Leech seed is in the 3rd, and the chance of not missing still work on D-nite's favor.

The EVs used on the simulator/calculator for Venusaur were: 248HP, 180Def, 252SpA, 96Spe (to cover all cases)

[Dragon God Goomy]

Fire Punch is there because the set needs it. The move of choice is Outrage. Dragonite will live 1 hit upon entry and another after the first Outrage. Venusaur will have to faint after the 2nd outrage, otherwise every non-fairy that comes in is going to get some serious damage.

When creating a counter I thought of a Venusaur with 10 moves. It can't possibly have all of the following:

Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Synthesis, Leech Seed, Earthquake, HP fire, Sleep Powder, Roar, Knock Off, Rest

The bold ones are the ones I regarded as more common. The definite ones are Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb.

Having both Sleep Powder and Leech Seed can work for 1 pokemon. Then it's left with 3 moves.

Synthesis is an option that rivals Leech Seed but is the most probable. Therefore lets put a 75% that the 3rd move is Synthesis. Then we have 7 moves competing for 4th place. Most probable ones are HP fire, Leech Seed and EQ. Then Sleep Powder, Knock Off and Roar. Last, mostly unused but still an option: Rest

Having both Leech Seed and Sleep Powder is counter-productive imo, because Venu has to rely too much on RNG and can't really survive if one pokemon is already asleep. + the chance of Sleep Powder being on the 4th slot when Leech seed is in the 3rd, and the chance of not missing still work on D-nite's favor.

The EVs used on the simulator/calculator for Venusaur were: 248HP, 180Def, 252SpA, 96Spe (to cover all cases)

But you better look on the rules.

Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

Pokémon A counters Pokémon B if Pokémon A can manually switch into Pokémon B and still win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

Meaning without the hax of Sleep Powder missing, Venu can put a sleep on D-Nite and apply Leech Seed on it. Then proceed to damage it more.

The thing is Venusaur has a chance to take out D-nite while sleeping with Sludge Bomb, even it has reduced damage, while Leech Seed slowly heals Venusaur.

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 248 HP / 180+ Def Mega Venusaur: 217-256 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

By the time D-nite wakes up (gives the sleep will last for 2-3 turns) Venusaur will be back at more than 50% health and it may survive another Outrage.

[Void]

the odds of running into a venusaur with BOTH sleep powder and leech seed is extremely low, sleep powder in itself is pretty rare too because venusaur generally can't afford to have one of its moveslots taken up by it. even in the case that you run into that 1 in 10000 venusaur that runs both sleep powder and leech seed, it firstly needs probably a 3 turn sleep (the maximum amount) and some lucky damage rolls to avoid the 2hko, on top of hitting leech seed and sleep powder which both have imperfect accuracy. even if you make the argument that venusaur can still win if it's a worst case scenario, if you simply switch another mon on your team into the sleep powder, that stops being a problem. I don't think getting beaten with some luck by a venusaur set that doesn't really exist means dragonite is not a venusaur counter.

[Shadow Tack]

Gator got quick-banned from RU so yeah..... nomming mega-bee/zard x

[Deleted User]

I'll resume this after one more week, sorry it's not been a thing lately. Just a lot of things going on kind of.

[NickCrash]

Perhaps we can turn this into a poll for the time being.