Just Something To Think About.

[MasterShaper]

Before I go on with the actual content of this topic, let me make a disclaimer - I am no saint by most accounts, but I do try to practice basic courtesy and sportsmanship when I am competing against others.

This post is also not intended to provoke others or point fingers - it is merely an account of my observations, and so please keep that in mind if you find yourself wanting to dig out a bazooka or something to deal with me.

And this is in the Game Corner because well... it's online gaming being discussed here.

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I was on PO today (nothing new...) and happened to be at the PokeBattleCenter. In the main chat, I chanced upon a discussion regarding ragequitters and fast forfeiters, which caught my interest. After following it for a while, I decided to chip in a little.

It was not the urge to criticize the ragequitters that started it - rather, it was because I noticed the members of the discussion seemed to think that just quitting matches whenever they felt like it was acceptable.

So I just asked them if they ever spared a thought for the politeness of such actions. Obviously, I was promptly labeled as a baby and told to take it easy.

Now, this is something I simply cannot do.

Maybe now I should share a little about my real self. While I am spending most of my time pursuing my Bachelors degree, I do have some spare time to play with. Aside from online gaming, I am involved also in some tutoring at high school level (also college level for a brief stretch this year). If the opportunity presents itself, I also go back to my high school to help out with my old scout troop - some of the present senior scouts are sadly incompetent to the point that they cannot even teach their juniors a basic reef knot (for those who didn't have the chance to learn some knots, a reef knot is among the simplest of knots).

One thing I try to teach my students and junior scouts is to respect others - it was one thing we had drilled into our skulls when I myself was a junior in high school. It is one thing to playfully use vulgar language on a friend, and another to blatantly curse someone's mother to their face. Likewise, when competing, one should always respect one's opponent.

Really, since when was it acceptable for people to just walk out of a competition/game/match just like that? Even if you wanted to do so, would giving your opponent a 'good game' or something equivalent be too much to ask for? Similarly for forfeiting because there isn't a point to the match anymore - say you're facing a shedinja with no moves that can kill it. Would it be that tedious and/or awful to type a 'I have no way to kill that thing', or thank your opponent for the match before forfeiting?

In chess matches, I've seen players gently tipping over their king when they concede a match, and offering a handshake to their opponent. What's there to lose by doing the online equivalent?

Always keep in mind that when you start a match with someone, you've already taken some of their time - and that's something that no one can ever reclaim. You might say "But it's just a few seconds/minutes!" but remember that many grains of sand a mountain make. And since most people play online games to unwind, you might have just made someone's day a whole lot shittier by quitting a match just like that.

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That's it for the topic of ragequitting and forfeiting. Now I'd like to touch on what's probably the more hopeless cause - trash talking.

It is one thing to argue with someone and insult them - personal vendettas tend to move beyond the realm of manners, for the most part. But to outright trash talk an opponent is nothing short of bad manners. So what if your opponent wants to run a cliched, overused team? So what if they use move-sets that they like but which aren't top-tier competitive? Freedom of expression should extend to online gaming also, and so gamers should not talk down to an opponent like that. So what if you cannot see the logic in your opponent's team - they might have some train of thought which never occurred to others.

A simple analogy could be made using university-level mathematics for those who are unfamiliar with its theorems and axioms - it would appear to be as alien as a foreign language to the uninitiated, but to a student majoring in maths, it would probably be as clear as daylight.

I've actually seen a match where someone ran a whimsicott, chansey (Eviolite, obviously), and blissey against a ghost monotype team. Obviously, that was match-up that was bad beyond description, but the non-ghost dude still persisted in trash-talking the ghost monotype player as if there was no tomorrow. He did win, and called his opponent a noob - the monotype player was hardly a noob if you ask me, given that the match went 6-5 despite the ghosts' disadvantage.

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Now, the responses to my arguments in the aforementioned discussion were obviously negative. I was told that "You need to get your priorities in life right", that "QUITTING IS NOT A FUCKING HONOR THING" and that "You are looking too far into things".

Let's not even touch the topic of honor - whatever happened to basic courtesy and manners? If manners and self-conduct are not to be prioritized, then just what the hell should we concern ourselves with? If you say 'survival' or something like that, let it be made known that even the garbagemen over here are a polite bunch that always have a smile and cheerful greeting for those whose trash they collect.

I'm going to assume that most people on PO are young or young-ish, and that we all have a decent number of years ahead of us (barring accidents). It stands to reason then that this problem would only worsen over time if left unaddressed.

Maybe I'm being old-fashioned. Maybe my time in the scouts and high school was different from what goes on nowadays - and it hasn't even been ten years (but then again, the world is progressing at a breakneck pace, so that's not unexpected). Maybe I'm holding on to a set of obsolete principles that no longer have a place in today's online scene. At the risk of sounding like I make racial stereotypes, maybe it's my Asian heritage that causes this 'baby' behavior.

For the record, they finally backed off when I resignedly stated that I might be a dinosaur who had no place in the world of online gaming anymore.

Now, some of you might agree with them, but hear me when I say this - the internet should NOT be a domain devoid of courtesy. Anonymity is not an excuse for bad conduct. If moderators on the gaming servers can kick/ban people for typing in all uppercase letters, then I don't see why there's such an opposition against the idea of trying to maintain basic courtesies online. This rudeness is probably the root cause for people going all rage-like on the servers to begin with, so maybe some thought should be spared for this matter.

Call me immature for not tolerating the internet's nonsense if you may, but there are just some things in life that should not be compromised. If these people are so adamant on defending their rights as enshrined in the Constitution, then I don't see why they cannot try to defend what's LEFT of humanity in this rotting society.

Yes, I am a believer in the saying 'progress has enriched the lives of mankind, but destroyed a large portion of man's humanity'. Call me a nihilist, anarchist, or whatever, but... this is just wrong. I do try to uphold the principles which I was taught to value, and in doing so maybe I'm swimming against the current.

Is it too much to hope that one's actions would eventually make a difference in a matter such as this?

I once wanted to be a teacher, but if this is how things will continue to play out in the future, I'm glad that I ended up majoring in optometry.

I tip my hat to you if you're actually reading this line, and more so if you actually give a damn about what has been said.

Either way, thank you for your time.

[MasterShaper]

[quote name='Winter' timestamp='1307267539' post='15300']
Try briefing your topics next time..
I understand you're a nice guy and all. You do have many points. Even if you are getting thrashed..Say..6-0, you shouldn't quit. The opponent is just above your skill level. That's why you keep on fighting, keep on trying, to get better than that one guy. Well. If you're making someone's day worse when kicking their behinds in the game, they, instead of getting mad, should go outside and take a break. Simple things. Keep in mind that I didn't read this whole thread. So that's all i'm going to touch base on.

Otherwise, I thank you for addressing this.
[/quote]

Hmm, you do have a fair point there - alas, concise writing is not my forte So I guess that will be something to work on for me.

Exactly - losing/failing is a learning process. And it's just a game in the end, lol.

"He who has never failed has never tried anything new."

[Amethyst]

There's not a word you've said that I disagree with here. Though I am moving this out of Game Corner, because that's for forum games. In fact, I'm putting it into Community Hall, because this is more about the community anyway.

More to the point, thank you for so eloquently and thoroughly reminding us of this. You're not alone in the sentiment by any means. It's for many similar reasons that our number one rule IS about respect.
Unfortunately, to expand such a thing to disciplining even rage-quits would imply the kicking of about 80% of newcomers to the server. That may be an exaggeration, but I don't think the point is contestable itself.

The people who do that sort of thing, I theorize, are not here for the same reasons as us. They're there to get a quick match in and dabble around in some shallow competitive battling and be on their way, whether their way be offline on or to the next tournament. They're not like us, who linger around and find friends among the battlers. To be frank, the people they mingle with on servers are not even people to them, but just faceless trainers. Consequently, they do not see the need to show respect.
That's what I believe. That it's a matter of perspective.

PBC is one of those servers- well, all of the larger servers are like that. Their target audience is mostly who I have just described. It's only natural that they should think you're reading too far into it, because you're looking for something different than they are. That's something that smaller servers with stronger community, like Reborn, would offer. Were you to verse the sentiment on Reborn's chat, I would expect you would find much different results.

Everybody has a different place in the world- and that applies to both on and offline. It's up to you to find where you belong, just as it is for them.

[MasterShaper]

[quote name='Amethyst' timestamp='1307298058' post='15322']
The people who do that sort of thing, I theorize, are not here for the same reasons as us. They're there to get a quick match in and dabble around in some shallow competitive battling and be on their way, whether their way be offline on or to the next tournament. They're not like us, who linger around and find friends among the battlers. To be frank, the people they mingle with on servers are not even people to them, but just faceless trainers. Consequently, they do not see the need to show respect.
That's what I believe. That it's a matter of perspective.

PBC is one of those servers- well, all of the larger servers are like that. Their target audience is mostly who I have just described. It's only natural that they should think you're reading too far into it, because you're looking for something different than they are. That's something that smaller servers with stronger community, like Reborn, would offer. Were you to verse the sentiment on Reborn's chat, I would expect you would find much different results.
[/quote]

That's the thing, Ame - regardless of what you're looking for, where's the harm in courtesy? That's the main bone I have to pick with them.

Even a faceless person can be deserving of respect, I guess.

But I'd agree that it depends on the communal nature of the servers also - less people does equate to closer bonds, indeed.

[MasterShaper]

[quote name='Winter' timestamp='1307306439' post='15328']
Well. Most people on PBC are people who want to winwinwin. They can't handle a loss. So, what's the point in respecting an opponent who ragequits just because they lost 11 ladder points? And what happens if that faceless person cusses you out?
[/quote]

Then it's a case about who tries to be the bigger person, I guess.

Sort of like when you're driving, and some random driver cusses you out XD

[Noivy]

I was going to post a similar topic but then I read this so...

I've been on nearly all the major servers, and I must humbly admit, I must agree with everything you've said about the people who reside there. I find it absolutely disguisting that people are being self-centered and all the like. I press Find Battle on, say the main Beta Server, and I get battle with this... **thinks about what words to use** ... Arrogant person who seems unable to show the slightest amount of respect. Now there are nice people out there, but from what luck that has been given to me, I sure as hell only get the nasty ones. Most of the time when they see A ninetales, they go off on how I'm a "Sunny Fag". Heh, like I've never heard that before.

This is why I solely spend most of my time on Reborn, where [u]most[/u] every one shows Respect. I do however use the word, "[u]most[/u]", quite firmly, as there are a few people who come to troll (or at least try to).

Overal, I think that if anything, some people really, [b]really[/b] need to grow up and learn a few manners. Of course, like I'm one to talk. It still doesnt stop me from leaving a rather snide (and sometimes really offensive) remark that usually results with the person tattling, then me getting kicked out of the server

All I can say is: Thank you Reborn, for letting me be who I [u]want[/u] to be