"The Axe"

[Amethyst]

"hey where can i get a download of E14???"

...is probably a question we're going to see axed-- I mean, asked (that was actually not an intentional typo but let's roll with it) when E15 comes along.

As it has come to be referred to on the forums, I occasionally give Pokemon 'the axe' in terms of their availability, meaning I either remove them from the game (what's up Magikarp) or push them back a bit. So, firstly, why do I do this?

Well, because I'm a sadi-- no.

One of the goals of this game (and one thing I hear semi-frequent compliments about) is to encourage players to use a variety of Pokemon, particularly ones they might not otherwise think of using. However, when popular/strong choices of Pokemon are available early in the game they tend to eclipse later similar options. As an example, why would anyone bother using Misdreavus ever when they can get the (sorry Ikaru) veritably superior Gastly at exactly the same point of the game?

Well, they just won't.

Now obviously there's never going to be a perfect balance of this where every single Pokemon has its place (and honestly who cares about half of them, like I'm pretty sure nobody misses Tentacool (I could be wrong?) after six generations of it being shoved in our face) but there are definitely some points for improvement.

While this may be disappointing for some players who are used to using, or favor these choices, it is ultimately me correcting a mistake for the sake of the final product. I view it as such- a short-sighted mistake. Like, what part of me thought it was a good idea to put drought Vulpix in before the second gym?? I am not sure, but that part is dead. Additionally, in some cases, such as Gastly, it's a matter of perception of length-- i.e when it was implemented at the end of E8 there was no content for it to be used in so it wasn't an issue, but now that's just about 50% of the way through the game and most players will jump at the chance since there's so much to use it in. Since the amount of game to which its applicable has increased, so has its value, and as such it needs to be adjusted.

Hopefully with these comments, you can understand why I make decisions to move or remove certain Pokemon. While the above two are instances I will be reconsidering, I am not promising that they or any others will or will not be changed. However, it is also partly dependent on what kind of Pokemon I replace them with. Because variety is important to this game, especially in the early chapters that can potentially get redundant if one only has access to the same Pokemon each playthrough, I will be sure to add something in earlier for each thing that is moved significantly far back, or removed.

SO that said, I am looking for input on what Pokemon the early game is missing, but could reasonably fit in there.

Now, let's get this out of the way right now: No, I'm not putting in your pseudo-legends, your talonflame, your aegislash, etc early. That's just not going to happen. Don't even. Nahh.

But, examples of Pokemon that would be good fits for the early game are things that may not have a very important place later on and come too weak to really be of use. Some examples of Pokemon like this that have been added into the early game in past episodes were things like Ducklett, Gulpin, Cacnea-- they're not really popular, but it was also a while before you could get them at which point nobody cared. I'm looking for things like that.

So, if anyone has any ideas they feel strongly about AND that will be appropriate for the early-early mid game, I won't make promises, but I will listen and consider them.

[Chilibunny]

Azurill you're already giving the axe, right? It's too good, so that's a good decision. I would also make Corsola available a lot earlier. Nobody ever uses it in any game at any point (except me!!!) because it's always gotten so late. It could actually be of some use in the early game.

[Azeria]

As much as i like Ghost types,I'd rather not have them before Julia as they pretty much make her a cake walk...So i'd go with Seviper around Corery/Shelly,I mean Zangoose is already available but no mention of poor Seviper.It's defenses are -excuse my language here-pure shit and without TM's it isnt even that good.You could have it be in a small war with the Zangoose or something but not having any mention of its counterpart till like after Noel is kinda sadening.

[Qaaz]

had to do

[Hypa]

MAGI-jk , umm ide say maybe togepi since we cant fully evolve it till the ditto arceus (yes ive already pestered you about him). possibly lotad or slakoth as slaking has a major ability nerf or maybe even gothita wouldnt do any harm as its barely used (imo)

i think it was gulpin who got the axe this time

Edited March 5, 2015 by Hypa

[Azeria]

MAGI-jk , umm ide say maybe togepi since we cant fully evolve it till the ditto arceus (yes ive already pestered you about him). possibly lotad or slakoth as slaking has a major ability nerf or maybe even gothita wouldnt do any harm as its barely used (imo)

i think it was gulpin who got the axe this time

Um,there's a Shiny stone somewhere in Azurine Island iirc

[Gentleman's Hat]

I for one do not mind "the axe" (considering I join in pretty late compared to others). I never dreamed that I would end up using Swoobat or Durant but I realized their potential and they incredibly assisted my journey. I originally join because of the challenge and the help I'll be needing but you helped me see that other pokemons do have their uses even if it's temporarily.

That being said...

[Chilibunny]

MAGI-jk , umm ide say maybe togepi since we cant fully evolve it till the ditto arceus (yes ive already pestered you about him). possibly lotad or slakoth as slaking has a major ability nerf or maybe even gothita wouldnt do any harm as its barely used (imo)

i think it was gulpin who got the axe this time

Slaking is super good early even if it has a terrible ability. And you can get it after getting Headbutt, anyway.

Gulpin got the axe for lag reasons. I remember there being talk and facts about Azurill being axed too.

[Felicity]

Personally I think some of the fossils could do with being shifted earlier. We get the fossils whenevs, sure, but having to wait till Spinel is a bit nahhh. I never hear about how people love Armaldo because it comes at a point where you have access to many different mons to deal with Serra. I mean, the fossils of 5th and 6th gen are already locked behind an event, so why limit Kabu/Oma and Cra/Armaldo? We also can't get Aerodactyl from the Rocks, so thats not an issue either.

Note: We get access to a substitute for Kabutops in Barbaracle in the rocks at apophyll, so that even less reason to use the 1st gen fossil pair

[Simon]

like I'm pretty sure nobody misses Tentacool

I miss it..somewhat..

The whole axe situation is perfectly fine in my opinion. The game is still a work-in-progress in order to reach a mix between enjoyment and difficulty, which has Reborn standout compared to other games. Anyways, mons I can see getting some earlier appearances would be the Drowzee line or Voltorb Line, sometime after Aya for Drowzee and not sure on Voltorb yet.

[roqi]

Is there any chance we could get Mienfoo a bit earlier? It, in itself, is not very strong, I think, and it evolves very late, at a point where other fighting types are plentifully available. I could be wrong tho because Regenerator and U-turn are pretty broken.

[Commander]

Oh I'm not against moving Pokemon around at all as I usually don't go for the super strong Pokemon anyways (Emolga is freaking amazing against Noel). I'm already working on a way to make Reborn a bit harder based on how a played on the older episodes.

One Pokemon I'd like to see back early is Chinchou, but post Shelly. I didn't realize how good this thing was going to be against a couple leaders like Kiki. Shoving all the way to Ep 14 makes this thing completely worthless and not even worth spending time to grind up.

[CURIE]

As I said earlier, Fennekin really should have been in the game before Chespin.

[dondon151]

I've said it before, but the Talonflame line is not strong in-game.

[Deleted User]

Wingull earlier couldn't hurt if you think it'd be plausible for the area around Opal or anywhere else near the sludged water. Perhaps make Gulpin a wild pokemon encounter somewhere?

One that stands out though I'd say is perhaps make Rufflet a very rare encounter on the rooftop garden? It won't OP Florinia because of how late it evolves.

[LeMasterJP]

Hey I like tentacool! It's one of my fav 1st gen pokemon. Also I think stunfisk is pretty cool and surskit available early? It's a pretty early game pokemon. Also I think frillish and ferroseed would be cool pokemon to add, I always checrished them for their unique typing, ghost/water and steel/grass.

Ferroseed should only be available after the poison gym though, it might be a bit to strong in there.

Frillish might be a bit too strong if it's available before kiki's fighting gym since it's immune to her gym typing, but after that I don't see why it wouldn't fit in the game ^.^

[Hypa]

lol ame would never put in talonflame

[NickCrash]

Hippopotas. I know it's going to probably thrive in the desert, but it not that strong not to get included.

Earliest entry: Tanzan mt

Medium entry: Route2

Latest entry: ???

[Felicity]

Now, let's get this out of the way right now: No, I'm not putting in your pseudo-legends, your talonflame, your aegislash, etc early. That's just not going to happen. Don't even. Nahh.

I've said it before, but the Talonflame line is not strong in-game.

Auto-no

[Alilatias]

I think Carbink should be available earlier, maybe underneath the Grand Stairway, after you defeat Shelly (as in, behind a Rock Smash boulder). Most people probably wouldn't even consider picking up an underleveled Carbink as late as Iolia Valley. Since we don't get the Toxic TM yet, Carbink is basically a just a Stealth Rock wall for most of the game, when there are many other rock types available earlier that also know Stealth Rock and have much better offensive options. Carbink is also genderless, so we can't exactly breed its Stealth Rock and other moves onto other Pokemon as well.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Alilatias

[Tomas Elliot]

Well, there are many Pokemon that are hardly ever used in their games of origin because they become available very late in the game, at which point much better options exist.

A glaring example is Heatmor in B/W: you get that thing AFTER RESHIRAM, and even if you are playing White and thus you are stuck with Zekrom, there are still much better options available much earlier, like Darmanitan.

So yeah, I haven't played Reborn in a while, so I don't know at which point Heatmor is available if at all: what I do know however is that early in the game there are events for Fire-type Pokemon that have the potential to become much stronger than Heatmor (Numel comes to mind), so yeah, if Ame ever feels the need to give one of these Pokemon the axe, I think Heatmor could be a good replacement.

Oh and speaking of B/W : can anyone remind me at which point of Reborn the elemental monkeys are available, if at all?

Edited March 5, 2015 by Tomas Elliot

[Claydoll]

Well, there are many Pokemon that are hardly ever used in their games of origin because they become available very late in the game, at which point much better options exist.

A glaring example is Heatmor in B/W: you get that thing AFTER RESHIRAM, and even if you are playing White and thus you are stuck with Zekrom, there are still much better options available much earlier, like Darmanitan.

So yeah, I haven't played Reborn in a while, so I don't know at which point Heatmor is available if at all: what I do know however is that early in the game there are events for Fire-type Pokemon that have the potential to become much stronger than Heatmor (Numel comes to mind), so yeah, if Ame ever feels the need to give one of these Pokemon the axe, I think Heatmor could be a good replacement.

Oh and speaking of B/W : can anyone remind me at which point of Reborn the elemental monkeys are available, if at all?

Heatmor is available at lvl 40 in pyrous mountain and 2 of the monkeys (water/fire) are available before julia.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Claydoll

[Qaaz]

Ok, b/c my only post was offtopic and a joke I have to say that I don't have something on my mind that should me moved either earlier or even later but how about adding a poll or even better making a 2nd post only with poll with the proposals?

[LeMasterJP]

I've said it before, but the Talonflame line is not strong in-game.

You're absolutely right, it's not strong, it's ridiculously overpowered!

It's very decent on all levels with any stab move, but the moment it learns brave bird and flare blitz it becomes a one hitting machine, nothing weak to fire or flying is safe and anything even remotely frail is shivering in fear at the sound of the mighty hawk's chwirk. So yeah I don't blame Ame for not putting it in.

[deadpool848]

I would like to see baltoy be availble earlier than it is, as it rarely gets any love, and it would be a great asset for fighting Aya.

You're absolutely right, it's not strong, it's ridiculously overpowered!

It's very decent on all levels with any stab move, but the moment it learns brave bird and flare blitz it becomes a one hitting machine, nothing weak to fire or flying is safe and anything even remotely frail is shivering in fear at the sound of the mighty hawk's chwirk. So yeah I don't blame Ame for not putting it in.

That and priority acrobtics at level 44 is already borderline gross. Samson might as well not exist if talonflame was availble.

Edited March 5, 2015 by deadpool848