"The Axe"

[dondon151]

The idea is to allow the player to choose a starter they like but also inform them that if you do choose them, you will lose a little in the beginning and possibly encourage them to start with another pokemon. I do agree though, forcing a player to sell an item to the ice cream vendor if they want to get the starter they want will excessively punish blind playthroughers who just want that starter, not to mention getting it is too luck based.

Can't you just sell the Potion to the vendor on the first floor of the Grand Hall Top?

Regardless, there are 2 wings hidden right outside that area that can be sold for 1.5k each, so whatever. This line of reasoning to fix game imbalance is the Reborn equivalent of patching up a leaky boat with duct tape.

Crobat and Emolga are lesser used Pokémon in any sense of the word. These Pokémon are ENCOURAGED to be used in this game over things you would see in OU on a somewhat consistent basis. That's part of the games difficulty. Archeops has a CRIPPLING ability as opposed to a constant boon in Gale Wings, and Archeops is at risk against Samson if played horridly.

I missed this paragraph from earlier. Crobat is stronger than Talonflame. There's no need to encourage its use.

For the last time, you need to remove any notion of competitive Pokemon when it comes to evaluating in-game strength. Competitive Pokemon are judged in a specific context with all of their available tools at their disposal. In-game Pokemon are judged in an entirely different context with few to none of their available tools at their disposal. So if I were to tell you that Greninja is not good in-game, your response shouldn't be to point me to its former staple OU moveset of Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Grass Knot / Gunk Shot @ Life Orb or whatever. At no point in the game thus far will it have that moveset (or legally, even that hold item).

There are plenty of examples of OU Pokemon, past and present, who aren't as good in-game. Chansey and Skarmory are two obvious examples because their defensive niche is much less useful and they have trouble dealing damage. Gothitelle is only OU because it can set up with Shadow Tag + Calm Mind, but in-game trainers rarely switch and Gothitelle doesn't even have access to Calm Mind. Many of the current OU Pokemon are only in OU because their mega evolutions are in OU. Obviously, Altaria wouldn't be OU without its mega stone. Conkeldurr probably wouldn't be OU without Ice Punch, which is a move that it can't yet learn in Reborn.

Onto Archeops. Defeatist is a problem in competitive play for several reasons: Stealth Rock chips away at Archeops's HP, you are never safe switching a Pokemon in, and healing Pokemon is hard. None of these are problems in in-game play. Hardly anyone uses Stealth Rock. You are always safe switching Pokemon in with the shift battle mode. Healing items are cheap and ubiquitous. It is so easy to keep Archeops at >50% HP and make use of its fantastic STAB combination and well-distributed 567 BST. Archeops is NU in competitive play but one of the stronger options in-game.

EDIT: I got ninja'd while writing this post. These will be my last words on the Talonflame subject.

Edited March 6, 2015 by dondon151

[Commander]

So to get back on track, Route 1 has a lot of potential Pokemon that could be moved back.

[Personthing]

So to get back on track, Route 1 has a lot of potential Pokemon that could be moved back.

Oh? Could you perhaps name a few? I haven't seen any pokemon on route 1 feel like they cause problems balance wise.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Mighty Kamina

[Commander]

Most of the Pokemon available in that and the sections around are kind of forgotten. First few that come to mind are Girafarig, Furfrou, Combee, Tyrogue, etc.

[Personthing]

Most of the Pokemon available in that and the sections around are kind of forgotten. First few that come to mind are Girafarig, Furfrou, Combee, Tyrogue, etc.

I really don't see how any of those Pokemon cause issues. I mean Tyrouge can quite useful against Luna and Samson, but that hardly warrants being pushed back.

EDIT: I feel like I'm misunderstanding you here...

Edited March 6, 2015 by Mighty Kamina

[Alisae]

I really don't know how early you can get mawile, but I honestly don't think mawile is strong without a mega. With a mega it will destroy people, but we can't even get megas at the moment. I'm guessing the reason why its not in the early game is because of its typing, so maybe early-mid game, like after Aya.

Also, maybe I'm just stupid but maybe after the 2nd gym ponyta?

Also I don't think having a Clauncher early wouldn't hurt anyone.

[Commander]

Ponyta is definitely put in a spot where it belongs being obtainable before Shelly. Clauncher is really good and outclasses a lot of water types available early on like Seaking.

You know what Pokemon got the short end of the stick. Deerling. That Pokemon is about only good for taking down Luna's Tyranitar before going back to the box. I can't justify putting him back any further because just about any leader (maybe even Shade) would eat him alive. Bring Samson and Charlotte into the equation and you got yourself a death fodder Pokemon.

[Alilatias]

I think that by 'moved back', he meant 'moved to an earlier point in the game'. Although if we move too many Pokemon to an earlier point in the game, exactly which Pokemon do we put in their place? We're going to run out of filler wild Pokemon eventually, especially in terms of keeping them thematically appropriate for the area.

I suppose there could simply be more one-off events to make certain Pokemon available earlier while keeping the wild encounters where they are. This would be the best solution, although I don't know exactly how much work it takes to program such events. But hey, Ame puts tremendous effort into programming this game already, if something NEEDS to be done, she'll do it. We can rest easy on that front.

Let's bring back that list that was posted a few pages ago, so at least we'd all be on the same page.

I've been waiting for it since E10! Poisonous water everywhere, # of Poisonous-Water loving Jellyfish: 0

Anyways, I went through the Location Guide and here's the stuff I think is found too late for anyone to seriously consider replacing a team member for:

Seel

Blitzle

Lickitung

Basculin

Delibird

Wailmer

Snorunt

Carbink

Elgyem

Drowzee

Baltoy

Stantler

Swablu

Audino

Spinda

Farfetch'd

Cubone

Nosepass

Gligar (considering we can't evolve it)

Natu

Aipom (I mean the Ametrine City wild ones, it took me 45 minutes while speeding up the game to get one in Beryl via Headbutt so I'm not counting that)

Girafarig

Qwilfish

Corsola

Maractus

Taillow

Seviper

Tynamo

My own thoughts so far:

- Move Carbink to underneath the Grand Staircase, behind a rock smash boulder (meaning after Shelly). Or a trade.

- Switch the placement of the Solosis and Gastly events. Make the path to Solosis' former area (which would be inhabited by Gastly in this proposal) inaccessible until after Radomus' defeat.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Alilatias

[Commander]

I kind of think Seel would be good to move back. It's not necessarily the strongest, but it'd compete pretty fairly with the other water types available. And YES to Drowzee. Hypno is a very underrated tank and would be great for even pre-Corey.

Edit: Besides Likitung, Swellow, and Claydol, I really see no point in pushing any of the rest of them back.

[ArthurZH]

So my post got buried by the "PUT IN TALONFLAME" rants etc etc, so I'd like to suggest this.

A lot of water types are available too late or not available at all This makes me sad because I want an early sorta-okay water pokemon in game.

Like tentacool. YES I WANT TENTACOOL because it's poison typing helps me teambuild a little and I always have a soft spot for one of my best Monotype Pokemon in my water Mono.

I considered Seel and Dewgong as an early game replacement, only to throw that idea out because Seel is available pre-Luna, which is too late.

Another thing is Milotic. Idk why, but I'd like to get responses whether is this thing really good in-game or sth, because imo Milotic is....meh. Unless you are against intimidate Pokemon, which....aren't really popular, right?

Also, I think Lapras isn't that good as of this moment....can we have it maybe post Samson or Post Charlotte, heck, even Post Terra maybe?

Note that I'm not suggesting these to be early game, just....don't put them AFTER Radomus, okay? Coz imo by the time most of us are at Radomus, we've tried enough of the mediocre-mons and will either stick to them or ditch them :S

Anyway, keep up the good work :3

[dondon151]

I kind of think Seel would be good to move back. It's not necessarily the strongest, but it'd compete pretty fairly with the other water types available. And YES to Drowzee. Hypno is a very underrated tank and would be great for even pre-Corey.

Even though Hypno would destroy Corey? Isn't this a reason to not include it?

Another thing is Milotic. Idk why, but I'd like to get responses whether is this thing really good in-game or sth, because imo Milotic is....meh. Unless you are against intimidate Pokemon, which....aren't really popular, right?

Milotic is a super popular Pokemon. OR/AS also gave it Coil, which means it has a basically invincible (though boring) setup sweep with offensive moves that have nearly perfect neutral coverage.

I think we have to quit worrying about whether X Pokemon would make Y battle too easy. All gym leaders have sizable weaknesses. There are tons of players posting in the "which gym leader do you think was easiest" thread boasting about how they trivialized every gym leader in the game with some available Pokemon.

Edited March 6, 2015 by dondon151

[Prankster Meowstic]

I think you could replace Meowstic in the early game with a less used psychic type. Prankster is one of the most broken abilities in the game (especially in double battles) and is actually really useful in game as well because the AI has no idea how to deal with it. Also, it's learned moveset makes it a superior option imo to Sableye which is obviously the better poke competively. Getting up screens with priority in gym battles as been at least as useful as having Infernape as the starter.

[dondon151]

I agree that Prankster is very strong, but Meowstic is already one of those lesser used psychic-type Pokemon as is. It's like, literally the only reason to use Meowstic.

[Yash]

I like the idea of doing something with the starter pokemon. Maybe something along the lines of having an NPC in the Grand Hall who will teach moves to the weaker starters at various stages. Taking chikorita as an example, maybe let it get leech seed after the second gym or in case of squirtle let it get rain dance, so that it's ability becomes useful. Though I don't really use weather teams so I can't say how it would effect the game specially with so many different fields in play.

Another thing that came to mind was adding non Canon starters? Maybe based on different types. There could be a machine or something in the room with the starters and you can enter the type you want to use. Then the machine gives you the option of a pokemon of that type. So if somebody wants to use a rock starter then they get a geodude or something. Maybe an elekid or tynamo or something for electric. Just giving the idea out there. The pokemon can be anything.

Maybe we can also give certain items only for specific starters. So while Torchic doesn't get anything, a starter that isn't used too often could get a held item like a choice item or orb. That would be a really big incentive to use that starter.

[LeMasterJP]

I don't know if everyone has this (pretty sure though) but there is one pokemon in the entire pokemon universe that I absolutely despise.

And I'm sorry gulpin lovers (or gulpin lover) but that pokemon is gulpin. I have never been able to make gulpin work for me in any way while trying to play through a game, BUT I have tried, I have give that little.. green.. stomach many chances but it never ever delivered. It only gave me hope when it learned sludge at early levels, but after that it just becomes a tiny ball of sadness.

But then it evolves into swalot, and you think "Oh thank the lord, things will be different now" nope! It's still the same thing, it just has more hp now and became purple. Instead of looking like it's sick, it now looks like it's choking as well.

Alas I have given up on the both of them. Adieu stomach pokemon.

Pfew needed to get that off my chest for some time now.

[Gaunt]

Maybe we can also give certain items only for specific starters. So while Torchic doesn't get anything, a starter that isn't used too often could get a held item like a choice item or orb. That would be a really big incentive to use that starter.

Too big if you ask me as you can give the choice/orb thing to other Pokemon

[Yash]

Too big if you ask me as you can give the choice/orb thing to other Pokemon

Ya I had thought of that. Maybe custom items?

Also is it just me or does swoobat seem really useful in the early game? Specially against Corey? I think his field effect is Corrosive Mist and Batman could not only remove the field effect with gust it's simple+calm mind combo is awesome.. Just a thought..

[Xiri]

Make Kricketot available after Florinia

I agree with Seel and Dewgong. As much as I love these 2 guys, they aren't terribly good and are available way too late in the game.

[Claydoll]

I don't know if everyone has this (pretty sure though) but there is one pokemon in the entire pokemon universe that I absolutely despise.

And I'm sorry gulpin lovers (or gulpin lover) but that pokemon is gulpin. I have never been able to make gulpin work for me in any way while trying to play through a game, BUT I have tried, I have give that little.. green.. stomach many chances but it never ever delivered. It only gave me hope when it learned sludge at early levels, but after that it just becomes a tiny ball of sadness.

But then it evolves into swalot, and you think "Oh thank the lord, things will be different now" nope! It's still the same thing, it just has more hp now and became purple. Instead of looking like it's sick, it now looks like it's choking as well.

Alas I have given up on the both of them. Adieu stomach pokemon.

Pfew needed to get that off my chest for some time now.

My gulpin was pretty useful as a tanky status effect bot with body slam/toxic/yawn and it learns sludge bomb early enough to give it some steam, it falls off quite hard after lvl 50 and i stopped using him around 60. I would say he served his purpose quite well until reaching a point where he was outclassed by available pokemon.

On topic: i would like a less strong fighting type before florinia instead of makuhita/hariyama, something that evolves after lvl 25 would be ok i think.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Claydoll

[dondon151]

Also is it just me or does swoobat seem really useful in the early game? Specially against Corey? I think his field effect is Corrosive Mist and Batman could not only remove the field effect with gust it's simple+calm mind combo is awesome.. Just a thought..

Swoobat is still vulnerable to physical attacks during and after setup, and it's not even that strong at +2. You can't get a Swoobat with a special psychic-type STAB unless you catch one at L10 and grind it up to par. The L20 ones are easier to use from the get-go, but they lack Confusion.

On topic: i would like a less strong fighting type before florinia instead of makuhita/hariyama, something that evolves after lvl 25 would be ok i think.

So... Mankey?

Again, I don't think that axing Pokemon as a knee-jerk reaction to them being good for a couple of boss battles is a good policy. We'd be playing whack-a-mole: one option gets axed and another one turns up.

[Claydoll]

So... Mankey?

Again, I don't think that axing Pokemon as a knee-jerk reaction to them being good for a couple of boss battles is a good policy. We'd be playing whack-a-mole: one option gets axed and another one turns up.

There are a couple more i can think of but it's not exactly a knee-jerk reaction, more like having options without going too far, for example: i like having a fighting type there as an option to deal with the immediate challenges but a more frail pokemon could do well enough without being too overpowering to florinia and the team meteor fights right after while still being decent enough pokemon to invest in for later.

Also, for florinia specifically, there's kricketune which i feel is the sole purpose of using that pokemon.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Claydoll

[Monochrome_Complex]

Vullaby is an odd omission actually considering we got rufflet/braviary. Also another vote for the gothita line, unless Gothitelle's sidequest was supposed to give us one.

[Claydoll]

Vullaby is an odd omission actually considering we got rufflet/braviary. Also another vote for the gothita line, unless Gothitelle's sidequest was supposed to give us one.

You need to talk to the gothitas after cleaning and one of them will ask to go with you.

[aspectoflife]

is axing a pokemon because it makes a certain part of the game too easy a thing? or is it only because it will outclass other lesser pokemon? because i agree with most people that kricketune makes the part until florinia too easy yet it is worthless otherwise, besides for perish trapping solaris garchop

[Patrick]

Idk if it's been said but I'd love to see Horsea early in game after getting Rock Smash or so (a small fishing hole by Ameritine Mountain by Shade's with Old Rod would be perfect in my opinion). Especially because I have no idea if the Dragon Scale is in game yet (I know Dragon Fang is through Druddigon, but not the point)

Natu would also be cool, as an alternate to Woobat/Swoobat

This last one may be a bit of a stretch but having Flabebe earlier in game as an event would be pretty cool too. (Right before Corey, or even worse Aya somehow, would be such a troll move xD)

Edited March 6, 2015 by Patrick