"The Axe"

[Claydoll]

Idk if it's been said but I'd love to see Horsea early in game after getting Rock Smash or so (a small fishing hole by Ameritine Mountain by Shade's with Old Rod would be perfect in my opinion). Especially because I have no idea if the Dragon Scale is in game yet (I know Dragon Fang is through Druddigon, but not the point)

Natu would also be cool, as an alternate to Woobat/Swoobat

This last one may be a bit of a stretch but having Flabebe earlier in game as an event would be pretty col too.

Dragon Scale has a chance to come with horsea when you catch one (i had to catch 22 horseas before getting one, but that's me) but i agree it could be useful to have a seadra earlier assuming the item gets a Reaper Cloth treatment.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Claydoll

[Etesian]

Too big if you ask me as you can give the choice/orb thing to other Pokemon

There's that and the fact that, the worse the starter, the better the item would have to be then. So everyone would either still pick a really good starter or pick something like Chikorita, grab whatever good item it has and box it forever. To prevent the latter, perhaps the item could be bound to the starter, but that would make getting better moves on it impossible. What's a Meganium gonna do? Set screens, maybe throw a Body Slam out there, that's it.

Anyways, Ame said that'll be done later, no need to discuss spend time on this now.

So to get back on track, Route 1 has a lot of potential Pokemon that could be moved back.

Agreed...if you mean "move them back" as in "make them available sooner". Seriously, who's gonna use a Stantler that late into the game? Audino is also of no use since this isn't comp and we don't have it's mega either.

The issue Stantler has is shared with some other stuff like Basculin I listed: average Attack and Speed, no defences. They're Zoroarks with different typings, except Zoroark has better stats and is available around when those should be too. Some don't even have that much, Spinda and Farfetch'd of all things shouldn't be all the way in Chrysolia IMO, who'd wait for them for so long?

But I think the mentioned Tyrogue is fine where it is. Hitmon-chan and -top are pretty bad, but Hitmonlee's strength makes up for it, especially since Gems are available for it's Unburden and all. It's also a bit earlier than Hawlucha, that functions the same way, but better, so it gives the player ample time to play around with it. It's also only really effective against Luna, for everything else, it doesn't stand out particularly.

I really don't know how early you can get mawile, but I honestly don't think mawile is strong without a mega. With a mega it will destroy people, but we can't even get megas at the moment. I'm guessing the reason why its not in the early game is because of its typing, so maybe early-mid game, like after Aya.

Also I don't think having a Clauncher early wouldn't hurt anyone.

That's where it is right now. Iirc, it used to be in the part of the Railnet where you get Vulpix, but got moved, most likely because of it's typing or something.

It kinda would, Clawitzer is really good, y'know.

[ArthurZH]

Milotic is a super popular Pokemon. OR/AS also gave it Coil, which means it has a basically invincible (though boring) setup sweep with offensive moves that have nearly perfect neutral coverage.

I think we have to quit worrying about whether X Pokemon would make Y battle too easy. All gym leaders have sizable weaknesses. There are tons of players posting in the "which gym leader do you think was easiest" thread boasting about how they trivialized every gym leader in the game with some available Pokemon.

Ah this explains everything then.....

[Commander]

Actually, I think Audino is good where it's at. It's an underrated tank, but heal pulse in doubles might be a little bit problematic (then again, some of those candy items kind of do the same thing). I think the reason it's so rare and hard to find is to stop EXP abuse grinding. Stantler also has to compete with Bouffalant, Tauros, and Miltank so it's never going to get any use.

The only other thing I'd really ask for is more of a variety of Water types at the start. Seriously, we only get about 3 options to start with and one of them kind of breaks Julia. (And Drowzee, but then everybody would be picking the Pedo).

[deadpool848]

For starters:

I would just give the starter pokemon each an egg move, and determing the power of that egg move by how powerful the starter is. It may give some incentive to pickup a starter that might even be availble as an event pokemon since these will have a move you need to breed for to begin with, and breeding isnt something everyone does. These are my suggestions for egg moves, the only one I am iffy on is Oshawott, since most of his egg moves are on the powerful side, and since he is a bit underatted, gicing him night slash is apealing, but could be too strong. Froakie has however prbably the worse egg move pool, so mud sport is probably the best one to give it early since it can help with the first gym since froakie is already weak to electric.

Charmander - Bite; Bulbasaur - Sludge; Squirtle - Yawn/AquaRing/AguaJet

Cindaquil - DoubleKick; Chikorita - LeechSeed; Totodile - AquaJet/MetalClaw

Torchic - LowKick; Treecko - BulletSeed; Mudkip - Curse

Chimchar - Encore; Turtwig - BodySlam; Piplup - IcyWind/Agility/AquaRing/Yawn

Tepig - BodySlam; Snivy - Persuit/Glare; Oshawott - NightSlash

Fennekin - Wish/Hypnosis; Chespin - Curse; Froakie - MudSport

Also i think the tyrogue trade can be put sooner than route 1 without really being all that bad, before aya maybe?

Drowzee being availble early should be ok, since he isnt all that much more powerful than meowstick.

I also think wooper, poliwag, and Tympole can be availble earlier that the island, not all of them, but one of them availble earier as a rainy day event would be nice.

Edited March 6, 2015 by deadpool848

[Helia]

Let Joltik replace Electrike at the powerplant

[Gaunt]

Let Joltik replace Electrike at the powerplant

Galvantula is relatively strong too (that Sticky Web) but i agree 100% (although it's the fanboy in me speaking)

[Commander]

I feel like Electrike is perfect where it is, but shouldn't be available until after Julia because of it's high level and how exploitable it is. There's really not much I'd say to replace it because Galvantula probably would be too powerful (it also is in a good spot).

As for the Azurine Island Pokemon, I don't think those should be touched with either. Yes, the early game is lacking water, but some of those Pokemon can be rather good. I think most people just kind of glaze the place over due to better Pokemon being available beforehand or shortly after so there's not much else that can be done. Maybe removing Goldeen and putting Poliwag there, but that's all that should be done.

[Ikaru]

As an example, why would anyone bother using Misdreavus ever when they can get the (sorry Ikaru) veritably superior Gastly at exactly the same point of the game?

This friendship is over.

[dondon151]

Is there a way to tackle this problem empirically? For example, have Reborn collect and send team usage data after a player wins a major fight and saves.

[Deleted User]

This friendship is over.

Least she don't talk shit about your whole favorite type......... >.>

[Chase]

It's okay Mike. She likes Fairies.

Just dish it back. You'd be completely justified.

[Azeria]

It's okay Mike. She likes Fairies.

Just dish it back. You'd be completely justified.

Whatcha got against fairies ya fighting type brute?

We need a weaker specter before florinia tbh,Maybe switch Shuppet with Golett or Misdreavus or something and move Shuppet to around Florinia?

[Chase]

I just think the Fairy type was a poorly executed way to nerf the Dragon type. With it's absolute immunity to Dragon type attacks, and obscure weaknesses to Poison and Steel type moves, Fairies more or less have replaced Dragons as the overpowered type rather than establishing more parity. The argument most certainly can be made that this has also raised the popularity of using Poison and Steel types, but it doesn't really seem to have solved much of a problem.

---

A Pokémon I want to submit for being moved forward is Geodude (Currently found under the Grand Stairway)

The Geodude line suffers a horrid fate of being x4 weak to Water -and- Grass type attacks. It's greatest question mark is how effective it would be against Corey - where it would seem to have a very solid chance at doing some serious work.

---

A Pokémon I would like to see moved back/axed would be Cleffa - which most likely -will- see the axe head in some shape or form.

Clefable is obtainable WELL before Kiki, and absolutely causes her trouble, as well as finds it's use against Luna later on in the game. It's very potent after Radomus (after Calm Mind is obtained if that's still a thing) and doesn't see much of a threat outside of Corey and Aya at this point of in the game.

[Amethyst]

Sorry, love, what was that? I can't hear you over the sound of my type completing beating yours.

Is there a way to tackle this problem empirically? For example, have Reborn collect and send team usage data after a player wins a major fight and saves.

For which pokemon might need to be axed? Maybe. But that's not too much of an issue. This thread is mostly for which Pokemon that come in too late, people are most interested in getting earlier. And it's been very helpful, so thanks everyone for your input.

[Gaunt]

Sorry, what was that? I can't hear you over the sound of my type completing beating yours.

Now it's personal

Seriously though if you equip your dragons with metal (most) fairies aren't a problem

[Azeria]

The only Metal Dragon is lord of time Dialga.

I push for earlier slugma btw,It's stats are subpar and it evolves late but it gives a decent fire type when it evolves with a rather high defense...

[Shing]

Woah, fun to read the comments.

Edited March 7, 2015 by ShingSt

[Azeria]

I would like it if Pancham was moved to the Slums before you gain the key with Scrafty and whatnot.I mean,it's stats arent as good as Scrafty's and it's moveset while leveling up isnt the best either so...wynaut move it back?

Edited March 7, 2015 by Azeria Cipherus

[Chase]

Four words.

Bullet. Punch. Poison. Jab.

Faster? Doesn't matter. Better hope you can take a hit.

---

As someone who knows a little about Pancham I can I honestly say that it's a better fit to replace Makuhita, as Thick Fat makes that thing invaluable in multiple situations if given the right TLC. It really depends on if Azery is right about it's moveset.

He's been PAINFULLY wrong before.

[Helia]

Galvantula is relatively strong too (that Sticky Web) but i agree 100% (although it's the fanboy in me speaking)

I feel like Electrike is perfect where it is, but shouldn't be available until after Julia because of it's high level and how exploitable it is. There's really not much I'd say to replace it because Galvantula probably would be too powerful (it also is in a good spot).

Let me plead my case:

Electrike > Joltik. It evolves at 26 compared to Joltik's 36. Giving a way stronger Pokemon being fully evolved. Joltik might have some use against Florinia and Shelly with bug/electric moves but it won't be of much use with Corey, Kiki, and Aya. I think it's more balanced than Electrike honestly.

Plus it would just seem right to have a Joltik sapping Electricity from the power plant.

Just slap Electrike in a spider web on route 1 and call it a day

Also, look at how cute it is!

[Qaaz]

Pangoro with Iron Fist and Power Up Punch @ Metronome

Yeah no

[Azeria]

Four words.

Bullet. Punch. Poison. Jab.

Faster? Doesn't matter. Better hope you can take a hit.

---

As someone who knows a little about Pancham I can I honestly say that it's a better fit to replace Makuhita, as Thick Fat makes that thing invaluable in multiple situations if given the right TLC. It really depends on if Azery is right about it's moveset.

He's been PAINFULLY wrong before.

Most of its good moves are by Move Tutor and Tm's actually....and is power-up-punch even available?

TBH I like Scrafty and Pangoro a lot and would like to see them appear a bit earlier because by the time that you're able to take down that lvl 50 Pangoro you'll likely have beaten Aya after which Spiritomb and Malamar amongst others are available..

P.S:Hilda,don't make me start again :feelsgn:

Edited March 7, 2015 by Azeria Cipherus

[Gaunt]

TBH I like Scrafty and Pangoro a lot and would like to see them appear a bit earlier because by the time that you're able to take down that lvl 50 Pangoro you'll likely have beaten Aya

Maybe i'm wrong but i remember to have beaten him long before Aya (with lvl 30-35 Pokemon)

[Azeria]

It's possible but ussually i prefer to keep it for after aya because the player'll have pokemon in a similar level range allowing for him to be beaten quite easily. Anyways i'd just prefer Pancham instead of Makuhita,since ya know. Pancham evolves at level 32 with a dark type being needed along with the fact that he'll only be really usefull for Florinia before he evolves :/.

Makuhita evolves RIGHT before Florinia and can be used to in a way completely curbstomp her.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Azeria Cipherus