Trust Issues

[The Swordsman]

WARNING huge post and spoliers for the Radomus battle ahead!

So when you fight against the heretic El you get a choice to side with El or Radomus on who to trust. I chose Radomus because it was kinda obvious that the Gossip Gardrivor is a fake since "her" speech patterns and personalty doesn't match up to the real one and because El is a hypocrite and a heretic.(advice for El, you follow Arceus' orders not the other way around!) One fight later El is arrested and I make my way back to Radomus' gym only to find out that instead of El being in jail Radomus brainwashed El to be his butler. He then takes one of the pendants and askes me to let him keep it on faith alone and that he won't abuse my trust. The thing is he already did by...

1: He proves to me that El is right about him brainwashing people and anyone who does that can never be fully trusted in my book. Also now I am worried that he actually did kidnap Luna from Serra and brainwashed her to be his maid.

2:Even though Radomus knows I'm a player character he takes advantage of this fact to deny me my answer on to let him keep the pendant or not.

3: He knows Luna is scared of her father but brings him in as his butler anyway, adding even more problems when it turns out that El wasn't fully brainwashed somehow. (faith?)

4: He really thinks that me, Cain and Luna are really that stupid and can't recognize that "Elias" is really El.

5: When he brainwashed El he made El think he was responsible for restoring El's sight, when it was in fact it was a miracle given to him by Arceus. While the brainwashing did not last its not certain when it actually wore off and as crazy as El is I highly doubt he would lie about the miracle Arceus did for him. This and the fact he tried to brainwash someone will make it hard to trust or side with him ever again.

Then after the gym battle he gives me even more reasons not to trust him.

6: While escaping with him he pulls out a Team Meteor outfit and then goes on a whole speech about how not everything is black and white like he's trying to justify something, which is most likely his (hopefully former) time as a Team Meteor member.

At the time, if I could, in the events before the gym battle I'd would tell him no, release all six of my Pokemon and demand that he release El and anyone else that he has under his control. If it wasn't for this stuff (and if he was a former member just told the truth since I only have a problem with active members)I would trust him but because of his actions I find it hard to. So does anyone else have problems with trusting Radomus?

[Commander]

I'm going to put this in a spoiler just in case someone doesn't want to read it.

The Black and White are symbolic because of Radomus's experience as a chess player. Originally, he played the darkness role of the bad character because he wanted to test you and Cain. There's something easily missed in the scene. Radomus and Elias clearly knew each other well. El even complemented Radomus seeing right through his trick.

As for the Amethyst Pendant, it's possible he learned about it through Team Meteor, but he might have been a supporter of Solaris, but left when Lin took over. There's likely a connection between him and Meteor regardless whether or not that's true.

As for brainwashing Luna, that's really a toss up. Remember how he mentioned Luna was abused by Elias. (I have to play through EP XI to remember exactly everything that happened). Maybe he brainwashed some of her memories in order to ease the pain she was suffering. What he did would be bad, but for the right reasons. I can justify this as Bennett didn't act like Luna was under Radomus's control.

In the end, I know Radomus probably isn't all good or evil, but I feel he is trustable.

[Qaaz]

Αre us sure that El is the bad guy and Radomus the good?

And what is the definition of Good and Bad? Does Elias who want to awake Arceus be the one who are the evil or Radomus? DO U BELIEVE THAT COREY IS BAD? ARE U SURE?

Do u believe that El was brainwashed? Do u know what connection have all of those characters (Definitly not as you have't yet finish E14)

Oh, and don't worry neither of them are "evil"

[Kithros]

Even though Radomus is still pretty sketchy, I would have to choose Radomus over El every time - while Radomus 'might' be doing something wrong, it is guaranteed that Elias is doing things wrong (ie. trying to kidnap Gardevoir to take as a hostage definitely happened) - and if it's a question between someone who might be a scumbag vs. someone you know 100% is a scumbag, I'm obligated to pick the person who only might be a scumbag (ie. if Radomus is working with Team Meteor or somesuch then it doesn't really even matter which you pick, so at least pick the choice that in theory gives a better outcome if he isn't working with Team Meteor - I say in theory because obviously in game the choice doesn't particularly matter for anything other than dialogue and whether or not you have to beat the ditto or not).

While the whole brainwashing thing with El is kind of sketchy, it seems unlikely that he actually intended for El to be completely brainwashed (I don't see what motivation he would have for making El his butler, and to immediately make El his butler without testing if the brainwashing worked in any way seems way too careless of him and I'd expect him to know better than that). I also didn't get the impression that he thought the main cbaracter + Cain would actually believe his butler wasn't El so much as he didn't really care. It's difficult to come up with why he would be motivated to do anything like this regardless of if he's being 'good' or 'evil' so I'll refrain from jumping to conclusions too quickly. I could potentially argue that he intended for El to recover from the 'brainwashing' to call over Team Meteor so he could track them back to their base and do 'something' there (hence why he asked you to go look for Luna because he said he was busy etc.) - but it's difficult to come to any reliable conclusions when there's so little information to go off of.

[Enkhidu]

Even if it isn't the best choice I will always prefer Radomus over El, I think I will trust him even if he's mystery, as he said to trust him I'll do it, lets say that I don't have anything to lose if I do.

[Qaaz]

so at least pick the choice that in theory gives a better outcome if he isn't working with Team Meteor - I say in theory because obviously in game the choice doesn't particularly matter for anything other than dialogue and whether or not you have to beat the ditto or not).

It's story split so it matters

[Kithros]

It's story split so it matters

It doesn't do anything other than change dialogue though - you don't get any different pokemon, items or anything, and you don't fight any different trainers than you would have otherwise. In strictly gameplay terms the only thing that really changes is that you don't need to beat Arceus if you side with El.

[Qaaz]

It doesn't do anything other than change dialogue though - you don't get any different pokemon, items or anything, and you don't fight any different trainers than you would have otherwise. In strictly gameplay terms the only thing that really changes is that you don't need to beat Arceus if you side with El.

The decisions you make (Corey, Garchomp, Arceus, Ruby Ring at Blake, the 4th way split on Yureyu and Tanzan Cove) all of them leads on different story end

[dragon-in-night]

The decisions you make (Corey, Garchomp, Arceus, Ruby Ring at Blake, the 4th way split on Yureyu and Tanzan Cove) all of them leads on different story end

If I remember right, Amy doesn't plan for different endings, but a expansive scene.

[Qaaz]

If I remember right, Amy doesn't plan for different endings, but a expansive scene.

When I was new on the forum back on the August there was 1-2 topics about that and I remember about different endings

[dragon-in-night]

There is it.

There's going to be one main ending... and then one that goes just a liiiittle further if you got everything.

http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10571entry214781

Edited March 18, 2015 by dragon-in-night

[Qaaz]

Is it this 2 endings?

[Chase]

No (or nobody knows for sure)

What we do know is that siding with El or with Radomus has a different outcome.

Siding with El allows you the ability to lose the Arceus fight and continue the story, while siding with Radomus forces you to defeat Arceus.

Personally, it's picking the lesser of two evils and evaluating what you believe to be true. If Radomus brainwashed Luna and kidnapped her from not only her father, but from Serra (who is arguably a better childcare provider than either of the two men in this discussion) I would probably be inclined to believe El.

El's Gardevoir is likely a Ditto - which would indicate that El didn't actually kidnap Gardevoir to begin with. - He planted the fake to bait Radomus into a place of negotiation, albeit in a shady upright religious manner.

[dragon-in-night]

Is it this 2 endings?

I don't count them as two different endings, because the true ending is still not change, the story just go a little further, like in the witch house (ok not best example but you know what I mean)

Edited March 18, 2015 by dragon-in-night

[Qaaz]

I don't count them as two different endings, because the true ending is still not change, the story just go a little further, like in the witch house (ok not best example but you know what I mean)

Well I count them for 2 different b/c there are not 100% same

No (or nobody knows for sure)

What we do know is that siding with El or with Radomus has a different outcome.

Siding with El allows you the ability to lose the Arceus fight and continue the story, while siding with Radomus forces you to defeat Arceus.

Personally, it's picking the lesser of two evils and evaluating what you believe to be true. If Radomus brainwashed Luna and kidnapped her from not only her father, but from Serra (who is arguably a better childcare provider than either of the two men in this discussion) I would probably be inclined to believe El.

El's Gardevoir is likely a Ditto - which would indicate that El didn't actually kidnap Gardevoir to begin with. - He planted the fake to bait Radomus into a place of negotiation, albeit in a shady upright religious manner.

We have to wait for the story to see what connection have all those characters... (hint hint Surnames)

[Commander]

The decisions you make (Corey, Garchomp, Arceus, Ruby Ring at Blake, the 4th way split on Yureyu and Tanzan Cove) all of them leads on different story end

I'm pretty sure the right paths are Rescue the five cops and reveal Correy's Identity to Hether, defeat Garchomp (might not impact ending), Side with Radomus and defeat Ditto-Arceus, Refuse to give the Ruby Ring to Blake, and I'm positive Sapphira getting captured is the right path due to Laura's little story.

Though there is an interesting choice that hasn't been discussed. Technically, the right path could be picking El and defeating Ditto-Arceus instead of losing to it.

[Qaaz]

I'm pretty sure the right paths are Rescue the five cops and reveal Correy's Identity to Hether, defeat Garchomp (might not impact ending), Side with Radomus and defeat Ditto-Arceus, Refuse to give the Ruby Ring to Blake, and I'm positive Sapphira getting captured is the right path due to Laura's little story.

Though there is an interesting choice that hasn't been discussed. Technically, the right path could be picking El and defeating Ditto-Arceus instead of losing to it.

No Garchomp u have to lose [100% confirmed]

As Arceus I don't know, but I think it's to side with El

The rest I think is that way

[Xiri]

I'm pretty sure the right paths are Rescue the five cops and reveal Correy's Identity to Hether, defeat Garchomp (might not impact ending), Side with Radomus and defeat Ditto-Arceus, Refuse to give the Ruby Ring to Blake, and I'm positive Sapphira getting captured is the right path due to Laura's little story.

Though there is an interesting choice that hasn't been discussed. Technically, the right path could be picking El and defeating Ditto-Arceus instead of losing to it.

Yeah I agree with Qaaz that you have to lose to Garchomp.

But yeah, I will side with Radomus over El any day (unless there is a like a major plot twist where the two were on the same side all along... but yeah I doubt it)

[Lostelle]

Doesn't Radomus still have the Amethyst Pendant?

[Xiri]

Doesn't Radomus still have the Amethyst Pendant?

Yes I believe he still does

[primrose]

Radomus "brainwashed" El so he could take the Amethyst Pendant from him. he or you could've fought El for it, but it was probably much easier for Radomus just to brainwash El into doing it instead. and it makes sense for Radomus to have changed El's belief in who healed his sight; El's devotion to Arceus came from his belief that it healed him, after all (El virtually states this himself i believe), so that would logically be a nice starting point in cementing that brainwashing, through redirecting that devotion from Arceus to Radomus. besides which, the fact that El broke out of his trance quite easily just about proves that Radomus didn't intend for it to be permanent; i don't expect a psychic-type gym leader to be that bad at brainwashing, especially one as morally ambiguous as Radomus.

essentially, i agree with Kithros. Radomus's "botched" brainwashing of El may have also been an attempt to get Team Meteor to move in reaction. it may have also been a purposeful attempt at placing El where he would kidnap Luna; Radomus knows that the player character is capable, and El's trail might've led them to important information.

as for where he got the Team Meteor uniform, who knows? maybe he really was a former member (him being a grunt seems a little unlikely to me though; that was the uniform he had), or maybe he'd filched it off another grunt when no one was looking. considering how many uniforms have to be made for an organization like Team Meteor, it can't be too hard to make a grunt uniform either, if you know what it has to look like.

and even if you are a player character that can't speak, you do have pokemon. if the player character really wanted to stop Radomus from taking the pendant, they could've always just used one of their pokemon and/or fought him.

i may be biased though, since Radomus is one of my favorite characters. uvu and do i trust him? yes. i trust him to do what he believes to be right, which seems contradictory with his morally ambiguous image, but it's really not. simply put, he's not particularly impressed with most other people's opinions of him. Radomus does what he likes to get what he wants for the most part, but at the same time, he does have a conscience and a sense of right and wrong that generally happens to align with yours.

besides which. if he was a current member of Team Meteor and/or someone who was going to backstab you, he's already had the Amethyst Pendant for a couple of episodes now. unless he's actually planning a greater scheme with that necklace, we would know by now if he'd given it up to Team Meteor or even just lost it to them.

[Monochrome_Complex]

Randomus is based off the mad hatter from alice in wonderland with Luna being Alice. While I'm not totally familiar with the story, didn't the mad hatter drug alice with his special tea? Since Luna is more or less alice, then it's possible he really did hypnotize her somehow(perhaps with Gardevoir or his Malamar?) However it's possible she's so obsessed with the story that she assigned Randomus as her own Mad hatter to fulfill her own little twisted fantasy based off the book. Considering how many gym leaders have mental/emotional disorders Luna is probably a little out there too.

[The Swordsman]

Αre us sure that El is the bad guy and Radomus the good?

And what is the definition of Good and Bad? Does Elias who want to awake Arceus be the one who are the evil or Radomus? DO U BELIEVE THAT COREY IS BAD? ARE U SURE?

Do u believe that El was brainwashed? Do u know what connection have all of those characters (Definitly not as you have't yet finish E14)

Oh, and don't worry neither of them are "evil"

1. Well you might have had a point about El might not being evil if El didn't break away from the main Arcism religion to start a spinoff cult, (which I'll admit the individual members don't seem evil) was abusive towards Luna, join Team Meteor (Who want to take Arceus' throne according to the grunts, something El should be violently against!) and doing many heretical and hypocritical actions. (such as forcing a battle on sacred ground) El doesn't intend to free Arceus (which would be something I would support) he intends to command Arceus to start the end of the old world early. (unless it is actually is time, then my rambling is for nothing)

2. There is a definition but depending on beliefs not everyone would agree and I rather not start a flame war. Also yes, I do believe that Corey was bad, while tragic, his suicide and past does not excuse his actions in the present.

3. Yes for the brainwashing of El and no on the connections.

i may be biased though, since Radomus is one of my favorite characters. uvu and do i trust him? yes. i trust him to do what he believes to be right, which seems contradictory with his morally ambiguous image, but it's really not. simply put, he's not particularly impressed with most other people's opinions of him. Radomus does what he likes to get what he wants for the most part, but at the same time, he does have a conscience and a sense of right and wrong that generally happens to align with yours.

besides which. if he was a current member of Team Meteor and/or someone who was going to backstab you, he's already had the Amethyst Pendant for a couple of episodes now. unless he's actually planning a greater scheme with that necklace, we would know by now if he'd given it up to Team Meteor or even just lost it to them.

No you have a point, even though the brainwashing is wrong Radomus would not have known my character shares a similar belief system to El and as a non believer would not understand the implications and how wrong it is to pick that memory to cement the brainwashing.