Gym leader criticism

[Lizard Troop]

Let me start by saying Reborn is one of the greatest games I have ever had the privilege of playing. Everything from it's well written story, challenging fights, beautiful world(relatively), and vibrant characters make it a joy to play. The latter of which range from people I would love to hang out with (Cain, Adrienn, Radomus) and people I would like nothing more than to throw them off a cliff and feed them to a flock of mandibuzz (Heather, Victoria, Anna, Terra).

That being said, something about the choice of gym leaders and elite four members has irked me from the very beginning. Why is shade a gym leader? He's an embodiment of death, or a spirit of some kind. I don't mind that he isn't human, but there had to have been a point where he had to sign up for membership among the other gym leaders. Also, every gym leader is supposed to have a backup leader, so who is shades?

Other really odd choices include everyone in the orphanage. They've clearly been in there for a long time, so why are they still leaders? They don't have access to their gyms or pokemon, so are people looking on to take the league just out of luck when they get to them? Just glaring holes in the story logic like that don't even make sense.

[Samtale]

Let me start by saying Reborn is one of the greatest games I have ever had the privilege of playing. Everything from it's well written story, challenging fights, beautiful world(relatively), and vibrant characters make it a joy to play. The latter of which range from people I would love to hang out with (Cain, Adrienn, Radomus) and people I would like nothing more than to throw them off a cliff and feed them to a flock of mandibuzz (Heather, Victoria, Anna, Terra).

That being said, something about the choice of gym leaders and elite four members has irked me from the very beginning. Why is shade a gym leader? He's an embodiment of death, or a spirit of some kind. I don't mind that he isn't human, but there had to have been a point where he had to sign up for membership among the other gym leaders. Also, every gym leader is supposed to have a backup leader, so who is shades?

Other really odd choices include everyone in the orphanage. They've clearly been in there for a long time, so why are they still leaders? They don't have access to their gyms or pokemon, so are people looking on to take the league just out of luck when they get to them? Just glaring holes in the story logic like that don't even make sense.

shade is a ghost what better specialist could you ask for in ghost types.

Fore Charlotte and Noel I think they would probably have the trainers that were part of the gyms to fill in for them until they were capable.

[Gentleman's Hat]

Now I'm not entirely sure about Shade but for the kids you already see that Radomus (is that his name?) has used legal action to apprehend them of their gyms and place them into the orphanage. It wasn't their choice and they want to be gym leaders.

You already know that you're character was about to be out of luck until you help break them out. That was the problem before you were there to fix it. These aren't "glaring holes" in the story, friend, these are situations in the plot that served as an obstacle to your goals. Whether the fact it didn't benefit the other trainers in Reborn is irrelevant because again you weren't suppose to battle them either.

[Lizard Troop]

shade is a ghost what better specialist could you ask for in ghost types.

Fore Charlotte and Noel I think they would probably have the trainers that were part of the gyms to fill in for them until they were capable.

But the player faces all of them. Even inside the orphanage, the leaders constantly remark that we will have to face them eventually. Does Laura have someone to fill in for her at the elite four? That doesn't really make sense either. What about Adrienn, too? Is his gym still part of the league? If so, that doesn't make sense, either.

[Solarance]

But the player faces all of them. Even inside the orphanage, the leaders constantly remark that we will have to face them eventually. Does Laura have someone to fill in for her at the elite four? That doesn't really make sense either. What about Adrienn, too? Is his gym still part of the league? If so, that doesn't make sense, either.

Laura isn't in the elite four now, Fern or Bennett (forgot who) took her place. Also Adrienn isn't a liable gym leader due to it being destroyed.

Edited March 22, 2015 by ! HC ! PokeLuke

[Lizard Troop]

Laura isn't in the elite four now, Fern took her place. Also Adrienn isn't a liable gym leader due to it being destroyed.

Alright, I didn't know that. As of the time of writing, I'm only at route 2.

[Solarance]

I'm pretty sure it is Bennett now, due to this. http://prntscr.com/6jwaga

[Gentleman's Hat]

Except that they are. Stories should make sense regardless of the player. The reborn league is still actively taking participants even with them being incarcerated. The only possible way this could not be a plot hole is that the league isn't aware of them them being captured, which isn't very possible considering one of the elite four is inside, too. Other elite four members had to have known she wasn't at her post.

Friend, stories do not have the obligation to explain every detail. There are always parts that is only up to the readers' (in this case, players') imagination to figure it out.

Shade is suppose to be seen as a mysterious gym leader, so therefore his origins and how he is accepted into the position will (probably) remain a mystery.

Since legal action was taken to put the kids into custody, you should assume that the same legal action is used to give them replacements. I could be wrong but you see that their gyms were no where near that orphanage to check and consider it legit.

Again, up to our imaginations and since the game is yet to be finished with another episode on its way you don't have really have the say yet to claim the story has holes in it. These things could be explained later.

[Lizard Troop]

I'm pretty sure it is Bennett now, due to this. http://prntscr.com/6jwaga

I wonder if El is still there, too. Regardless, Laura was referred as being a member inside of the orphanage, so their entire inprisonment is the only part of the game where I thought the plot really needed some reconsidering.

[Solarance]

I wonder if El is still there, too. Regardless, Laura was referred as being a member inside of the orphanage, so their entire inprisonment is the only part of the game where I thought the plot really needed some reconsidering.

Sometime around Charlotte's gym I think that's when you learn she isn't in the E4 now.

[Lizard Troop]

Friend, stories do not have the obligation to explain every detail. There are always parts that is only up to the readers' (in this case, players') imagination to figure it out.

Shade is suppose to be seen as a mysterious gym leader, so therefore his origins and how he is accepted into the position will (probably) remain a mystery.

Since legal action was taken to put the kids into custody, you should assume that the same legal action is used to give them replacements. I could be wrong but you see that their gyms were no where near that orphanage to check and consider it legit.

Again, up to our imaginations and since the game is yet to be finished with another episode on its way you don't have really have the say yet to claim the story has holes in it. These things could be explained later.

First off, shade is partially acceptable considering nothing is really wrong about the choice.

Second, no dialogue uttered by anyone gives any indication of there being replacements for the gym leaders. In fact, on the contrary. The leaders themselves keep referring to you having to battle them and only them for their badges in the middle of the orphanage. I understand that games that leave some part of the story up to your own imagination is how great stories are made, (Case in point the Souls series) but none of this is unexplained. It's all explained and it doesn't make sense with the world.

[Shing]

Other really odd choices include everyone in the orphanage. They've clearly been in there for a long time, so why are they still leaders? They don't have access to their gyms or pokemon, so are people looking on to take the league just out of luck when they get to them? Just glaring holes in the story logic like that don't even make sense.

I think Ame did say something about this like that orphanage was their gyms or something. Idk, i don't remember fully.

That being said, something about the choice of gym leaders and elite four members has irked me from the very beginning. Why is shade a gym leader? He's an embodiment of death, or a spirit of some kind. I don't mind that he isn't human, but there had to have been a point where he had to sign up for membership among the other gym leaders. Also, every gym leader is supposed to have a backup leader, so who is shades?

I don't really know. I have thinking about this before once. It can be something about the league or something, i dunno that much.

Edited March 22, 2015 by ShingSt

[Gentleman's Hat]

First off, shade is partially acceptable considering nothing is really wrong about the choice.

Second, no dialogue uttered by anyone gives any indication of there being replacements for the gym leaders. In fact, on the contrary. The leaders themselves keep referring to you having to battle them and only them for their badges in the middle of the orphanage. I understand that games that leave some part of the story up to your own imagination is how great stories are made, (Case in point the Souls series) but none of this is unexplained. It's all explained and it doesn't make sense with the world.

You questioned Shade's origin, I merely answered.

You're concern about the gym leader kids do not make sense to me. The story doesn't revolve around them, in fact you freed them and battled them later. Like it or not the questioning of their absence in the gym can be summed to "Who cares?" Well, I know people do care such as yourself but it's not going to benefit you anyway in knowing. You still got to battle them and claim their badges.

Regarding the orphanage, I actually just recall that they still can battle for their badges it's just that Radomus doesn't allow it. The first time you met him, he considered but decided against it. Even though you are a trainer he used legal actions to prevent such battles. That much was explained and it makes perfect sense to me.

[Qaaz]

Someone post about rl characters pls, I'm boring to do this again

Oh and you are on route 1? You will be spoiled if we answer ur questions

[Lizard Troop]

You questioned Shade's origin, I merely answered.

You're concern about the gym leader kids do not make sense to me. The story doesn't revolve around them, in fact you freed them and battled them later. Like it or not the questioning of their absence in the gym can be summed to "Who cares?" Well, I know people do care such as yourself but it's not going to benefit you anyway in knowing. You still got to battle them and claim their badges.

Regarding the orphanage, I actually just recall that they still can battle for their badges it's just that Radomus doesn't allow it. The first time you met him, he considered but decided against it. Even though you are a trainer he used legal actions to prevent such battles. That much was explained and it makes perfect sense to me.

The doctor's name is connal, by the way. Saying "who cares" is one of the worst ways to look at stories in general. The entire reason stories exist is because people care why and how things happen. Preventing the leaders from being challenged for their badges at all halts progression in the league entirely, especially considering that one of the elite four (apparently at the time) was with them too. "It doesn't matter because we got the badges anyway" is a terrible response, too. I expect an amazing story to make sense as a whole regardless of what the player does. At least, good stories are like that.

[Qaaz]

The doctor's name is connal, by the way. Saying "who cares" is one of the worst ways to look at stories in general. The entire reason stories exist is because people care why and how things happen. Preventing the leaders from being challenged for their badges at all halts progression in the league entirely, especially considering that one of the elite four (apparently at the time) was with them too. "It doesn't matter because we got the badges anyway" is a terrible response, too. I expect an amazing story to make sense as a whole regardless of what the player does. At least, good stories are like that.

What he tries to avoid so he is not answer you is the spoilers

Finish the game first and come back, or even better search for the answers on past threads

[Lizard Troop]

What he tries to avoid so he is not answer you is the spoilers

Finish the game first and come back, or even better search for the answers on past threads

That sounds like a response from someone who knows nothing about it either.

[Gentleman's Hat]

That sounds like a response from someone who knows nothing about it either.

There's certainly no need for that. That man has been around much longer than you. To assume such is disrespectful. I honestly suggest that you actually progress in the game for your questions earlier had already been answered by someone who was ahead of you. We mean no disrespect to you of course, things are better for you to figure out on your own.

The story is great, I assure you. But you shouldn't expect too much.

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

I remember Ame said Noel's gym was the orphanage, and that it has an arena in the basement that the player didn't visit and Sigmund doesn't allow battles often.

Shade was apparently referred to the position and proved good enough to keep it, but that's all we know for now.

[Lizard Troop]

I remember Ame said Noel's gym was the orphanage, and that it has an arena in the basement that the player didn't visit and Sigmund doesn't allow battles often.

Shade was apparently referred to the position and proved good enough to keep it, but that's all we know for now.

Somebody with intelligence, thank you. That explains at least some things.

There's certainly no need for that. That man has been around much longer than you. To assume such is disrespectful. I honestly suggest that you actually progress in the game for your questions earlier had already been answered by someone who was ahead of you. We mean no disrespect to you of course, things are better for you to figure out on your own.

The story is great, I assure you. But you shouldn't expect too much.

Nothing was answered, no. Not by you or him. I doubt actual answers for these questions exist, though, considering no one has any. Had I not explained my location in the game, I doubt you would have even thought to tell me to finish the game. But it's cool, I was just bringing these plot holes to some attention at least.

[Gentleman's Hat]

Somebody with intelligence, thank you. That explains at least some things.

I have just stated that same answer.

Well, as long as the matter is resolved.

[Qaaz]

That sounds like a response from someone who knows nothing about it either.

Take this, this and this

If you want more info go dig some threads ur self rather be rude when people who knows lot of stuff and you dont say something more...

[Shing]

I remember Ame said Noel's gym was the orphanage, and that it has an arena in the basement that the player didn't visit and Sigmund doesn't allow battles often.

Shade was apparently referred to the position and proved good enough to keep it, but that's all we know for now.

Ah the Noel one. Thank you, i'm gonna remember that one.

[Qaaz]

Ah the Noel one. Thank you, i'm gonna remember that one.

But neither that is his official Gym, it's like Charlotte

Never was a challenger before us (the player), Noel's gym is there as long as he is live on the Orphanage but neither that or Belrose Mansion are official his Gym (Before the story begin 10 years ago)

Also extra info for the "plot holes" Sigmund, Lin and kids stuff + Interview

http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11302

[madf0x]

Well it would be helpful if there were a bit more info explained in game, cause outside Word of God and popular fan theories there are the occasional bits of fridge logic that creep up. Yes we all pretty much know that Noel's gym was the orphanage, and that Charlotte only seen her gym once while her mother still ran it and you are her first challenger, etc but none of that is in game(or hidden very well if it is).

There is a section in game where it is explicitly stated that all gym leaders have backups assigned to them but except Aya's case it is never mentioned who is a primary gym leader and who isn't. For all our characters know everyone inside that orphanage are backups, not primary gym leaders. Think kind of like an assistant manager. They still have the authority to give you challenges and thus give you needed badges for progression.

Theres also been strong evidence that no one, or very few, has even challenged the Reborn League in the past decade. Remember the situation is so bad that you the player as a known experienced and capable trainer are brought in by the head of the Reborn League to challenge it and solve the ongoing issues. If the league was a kitchen youre basically gordon ramsey(maybe not that famous in the game but you get my drift). Also would be nice that if this is true, to be made more clear in game.