Aegislash in OU?

[Guzam]

If you're like a vast majority of people, you'll say hell no... But I disagree actually.

After going for 10 straight victories on the suspect test ladder today, only 3 people I fought had Aegislash. Now you may be wondering why Aegislash would even be dropping back down to OU. I think it's because smogon wants a pokemon that can fight Mega: Metagross, Diancie, Altaria, etc. Me personally? I'm cool with this. Honestly we can go two directions here. The road where Aegislash comes back to OU, or where mega metagross gets banned from OU. I would personally prefer the second option, but Aegislash has kind of fallen from his pedestal and is easily taken out by special attackers and good plays.

Out of the three matches I played against Aegislash, not one of them was able to get a kill... except on Lopunny as I couldn't do enough damage. Aegislash isn't a huge problem for special attackers and if you play right, kings shield can be easily avoided. In fact one of the only things you need to do is predict a kings shield and you can set up for a game winning sweep. Both forms of charizard's megas can easily take the thing out when in the right situation, and I've had great success against it with mons like Keldeo and Thundurus, both of which resist steel and can survive a shadow ball. Aegislash isn't as big a threat as beforeand it actually shows a lot now... Does that mean it can come back to OU?

Well my final verdict is... No.

Just ban mega metagross and there will be no need for aegi in OU. What do you guys think about this suspect test? Do you think Aegislash should be OU? What course of action do you think the community should take?

[Tomas Elliot]

Honestly? I never ever found Aegislash to be even remotely as broken as the overreacting fanbase made it out to be in the first place. I would elaborate on this, but last time I defended a perfectly legit Pokemon from the overreacting fanbase all I achieved was a localized crapstorm of flaming, and the Pokemon in question was banned anyway, so I'll stay out of the discussion this time. But really, I am glad Aegislash is getting another chance.

On a side note, Mega-Gross cannot be OHKOed by any move Aegislash learns unless Aegislash is at +2 and even then it is naturally faster, and its EQ is a clear 2KO: if they brought Aegislash back specifically to counter Mega-Gross they are doing something wrong: I am not saying Aegislash cannot beat Mega-Gross, I am simply stating that it is, at most, a semi-reliable check, but definitely not a counter...

[Aero]

So far 11-0 and have yet to see an Aegislash. I don't think it is overpowered at all. It doesnt seem to be overcentralizing the metagame yet (im my case). Bisharp absolutely fucks it over, so does Mega-Metagross (if eq), and Garchomp, and Mega-Lopunny. Its speed is abysmal. Kings Shield is easily predicted. Frankly you cant just slap it on any team and expect it to work. Its not like people use it in ubers. But knowing smogon, they will probably ban it away again because greninja syndrome.

[Chevaleresse]

I hate it and find it infuriating to play against, but I don't really see it being worthy of a ban in the first place.

[Chase]

Bring the Royal Sword back. The only reason Aegislash is so polarizing is because you have to, as an opponent, be wary of King's Shield and dance around the thing. If you have half a brain, you'll be able to take it down. As far as how I feel about the subject in general. Mega Lopunny can ruin Aegislash's day with Encore and Scrappy. MegaGross's EQ would be particularly devastating, and there are other things that work particularly well at felling it in the current OU metagame today.

It's annoying if you're like me and you just want to click on the attack that -should- work most of the time - but Aegislash makes opponents think twice. If they do so in a timely manner, this thing is capable of being brought down.

It has no business being in Ubers today.

[Dark Desire]

I wouldn't give this suspect or any really any conclusive result after just 10 games, personally if it was between aegis or m-gross i'd rather take out gross and leave aegis in ubers

aeig's most likely going to over centralize the meta again and it actually does counter some of the most used megas in OU making it really big threat to most teams, nothings really changed that much for me to want it back

Bring the Royal Sword back. The only reason Aegislash is so polarizing is because you have to, as an opponent, be wary of King's Shield and dance around the thing. If you have half a brain, you'll be able to take it down. As far as how I feel about the subject in general. Mega Lopunny can ruin Aegislash's day with Encore and Scrappy. MegaGross's EQ would be particularly devastating, and there are other things that work particularly well at felling it in the current OU metagame today.

The same thing could be said about the player using Aegis, anyone with half a brain should be able to know when the opponent is going to try to predict a King's Shield, what I hated most about Aegis was how it created so many 50/50s

i haven't done the calc on this but im pretty sure M-gross's eq 3hkos aegis in defensive form with leftovers and King's Shield

[Chase]

You're right DD. The player using the Aegislash also has to make predictions. I don't understand why using it is so frowned upon and how it detracts from a game that already has a percentage of luck involved. Aegislash preys on the critical thinking of the opponent. If it fails - Aegislash is caught looking in Blade Form and KO'd often. If it succeeds, the opponent either gets hit with a damaging attack or drops it's attack stat attacking it in Shield Form.

It's not so much chance as it seems to be when it's usage is centered on outsmarting and outpredicting the opponent. The rest of the meta is just like this, but not in such an immediate moment as in EVERY turn Aegislash is in play. Causing critical thinking isn't a bad thing.

ORAS brought in some much needed Megas to the OU tier that can handle this Pokemon - and a large part of it's ban is in response to a now somewhat antique part of today's meta. Yes. It's a swiss army knife that preys on the play of your opponent in order to thrive. It's also somewhat dependent on the play of your opponent - which means it's certainly not overpowered in that regard.

It's one thing to hate a Pokemon being in the tier. (For me, M-Lopunny fits this role due to it's combination of Speed, Scrappy, and plethora of moves that could make it even more threatening) but it's another to truly be game-breaking. I think we're seeing that Aegislash got a bit of a biased vote based on previous perception and that times have changed.

[NickCrash]

Oh you, sweet Aegislash! I have also tried the suspect test, and in my 10 games so far, only 2 did NOT have Aegis. I even saw a couple of good teams built around it. The popularity is rising. Even if my teams did not include it, I'm seriously considering it, as it can play quite a few roles, without having drawbacks.

Aegis is a unique tank that has at some point to turn into the offensive. The problem that I see is that if it gets a SD up, no psychic or ghost type is able to take a Shadow Sneak, which will limit at an extend the usage of such pokemon. One would argue that we found reliable checks to the Lati bros, M-Zam, M-Metagross, but it also stops all those pokemon that took a sudden rise from UU to OU. Examples include Victini, Starmie, Gallade (non and mega), Jirachi, and M-Diancie (who cannot do anything against it). It is good on one hand to have more diversity in the tier and stop monsters like the Latii, but it limits your choice of pokemon to use.

Now, in terms of what is resistant and can revenge kill it or simply check it.

M-Metagross has a chance to OHKO a 248HP / 252Def Aegis

Calcs here:

252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Aegislash-Blade: 282-332 (87.3 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Mew can take the Shadow Sneak, burn it (even behind the King's shield) and proceed to stall it to death.

Out of non-megas, Garchomp, Bisharp and Excadrill can all destroy it, given they lose a 30-ish % of their health first, which is not that much. Bisharp might have a bit harder time against it, as a badly timed Knock Off, can half the killing potential, but it sure has less to care about defensively.

Megas that don't really care and can do hefty damage are M-Lopunny, M-Zards, M-Metagross, M-Sableye, M-Gyarados (probably the best counter to Aegis), M-Manectric, M-Tyranitar (provided it OHKOes), M-Scizor, and M-Venusaur (provided it has HP-fire).

As stated above, the pokemon that can check or even counter Aegis are mostly megas and select OU pokemon. This brings me to the assumption that people using Aegis will try first to get rid of their opponents mega, and then have a really easier time against them. The issue that one can have 1 mega per team limits the options, yet not so much. Do you see where this is going? People will start to teambuild having Aegis in mind. While it is generally encouraged to think of common threats when building a team, people will always try to include something specifically designed to counter Aegislash, and in my opinion this limits the choices people have, and that's a big problem for the metagame. Given that now with ORAS, we have a plethora of pokemon in OU, and as such many different types of threats, this issue might be limited (as it would not be crucial for the metagame).

Right now, I'm on the fence on the Aegis test, but I'll come back when I have more results in my hands.

[Chase]

Team building around a threat -already- happens without Aegislash - and there are things that will always find a way to rip holes in your team as no team is every truly perfect. It -will- be a centralizing Pokemon and it -will- have that coin flip approach to it.

That's pretty much how every prediction in Pokemon works when two players are of equal skill. One person predicts the obvious switch and switchs, the other predicts the other to predict the switch and stays in either to set up or attack the Pokemon switching in with a coverage move.

The truth about OverUsed is that so long as we're having debates over Pokemon that should be considered to be in the UBERS metagame against things like Xerneas and Primal Groudon, is that there will always be a few Pokemon that are centralizing.

Aegislash is a decent check to aforementioned Xerneas, but it's flip-flop stats may not be enough to hang against other threats. It and things like Greninja (who's speed makes it a bit overkill in OU.) are left on an island as not terribly viable Ubers pokemon - only for things like MegaGross, Landorus T, Mega Altaria, and Mega Lopunny to be the next centralizers.

[Deleted User]

The primary concern I have regarding Aegislash is that, I can't think of a solid counter to it. Plenty and plenty of checks, but can anything really just outright beat it out whenever it needs to?

[NickCrash]

My first thought is Sableye (and then Mega), but I'm not sure how strong this option is.

[Deleted User]

My first thought is Sableye (and then Mega), but I'm not sure how strong this option is.

It works just fine as a check, but not so much as a counter. Especially if we're talking Special attacking Aegi

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 226-267 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

If it's not perfect health, it'll likely be dead. and even then there's still a chance to take it out with Shadow Sneak without being burned depending on whether or not you're willing to use the Speed IV's.

Mega Eye has a 70% chance to be 2HKO'd, 100% after stealth rocks. Definitely not a counter at all.

[Kamina]

Mandibuzz with Charti berry pretty much counters all aegislash sets.

[Deleted User]

Pardon my ignorance, but what Aegislash set runs a Rock Move????

[Reignited'Light]

Head Smash Aegislash. Although uncommon, it does check it's usual counters like Mandibuzz and Specially defensive Charizard Y. It can also get Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian on the switch. They can run a King's Shield, Shadow Ball or Flash Cannon (depending on what your team needs to cover), Shadow Sneak, and Head Smash set.

[Void]

Overall, I feel like the positives of bringing this back are far outweighed by the negatives. Like before, people will simply slap aegislash on their teams because by having aegislash on your team, you automatically check such a huge slew of threats. This creates a very aegislash-centric metagame, where almost everyone has a team that consists of aegislash + aegislash lure/check/counter + sweeper that appreciates aegislash being gone. It will have a huge (negative) impact on the diversity of the metagame. One of the main selling points of ORAS OU right now is the diversity, you see a lot of generally under-appreciated/lower tier pokemon being used in top-level tournament games (not so much on the ladder, but it should be no surprise that the average player will have less confidence to go against the grain), and bringing aegislash back will ruin this for the most part. What exactly has changed in ORAS to make dealing with aegislash easier anyway? Out of the new megas, lopunny can beat with it IF you win the king shield 50/50s. By definition, it doesn't even qualify as a check.

The thing about aegislash is that there isn't 1 trait alone that makes it broken, it's the whole package. The typing, the 50/50s forced by king shield, the utility, the versatility (it can run physical, special AND stall sets) all add up. Many pokemon that check one set will lose to another set, and the few pokemon such as mandibuzz that can take on both the offensive sets are badly crippled by the sub toxic stall set.

I don't know why people are bringing up the fact that they haven't seen many aegislashes on the ladder so far, is this supposed to mean something? First of all, your first 20 or so games will be against low ladder players, those battles mean absolutely nothing. Furthermore, games on the suspect ladder, especially when the suspect ladder has only just gone up, are not at all an accurate representation of what the metagame will actually be like once it settles down should aegislash be unbanned.

I'd also like to add the the ubers metagame is NOT taken into account when deciding what should or should not be banned from OU. Ubers is first and foremost an OU banlist, and the viability of pokemon sent to ubers is not a concern. Also, hilda is correct in saying that there will always be centralizing pokemon in any metagame. This is why a distinction between centralizing and overcentralizing has to be made; there will always be centralizing pokemon, but overcentralizing pokemon are downright unhealthy for a metagame.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Void

[Chase]

Reading through your argument here, Void. It appears that you lead off with an argument about how Aegislash creates a centralized meta, and then go on to explain that the meta is already centralized and always will be. This would indicate that you are more opposed to an Aegislash-centralized meta as opposed to actually caring about parity. I would have to agree with Pyrrhon's earlier suggestion -IF- we're going to base our argument on something that already occurs with or without Aegislash - we -SHOULD- re-suspect and this time BAN MegaGross. We SHOULD put Lopunny, Heatran, Landorus-T in the hot-seat as well.

If we can't take that kind of course of action, the argument of parity is out the window. There isn't a distinction between a centralized meta and a centralized meta. The only thing that seems to scare some people is that Aegislash is a Pokemon that fits REALLY well on various teams -and- that the Pokemon is used in a luck-based manner where the supposed "higher-skilled" trainer loses the draw due to a coin-flip.

You have to keep in mind that Aegislash also requires some decent play in order to actually exercise the threat that it is. If someone is too obvious with King's Shield, priority users can turn Aegis into set-up bait with the drop of a hat.

It's Ghost/Steel typing -is- rather sexy considering one type grants an immunity to what would normally be a weakness to the other - but that's thrown out the window when an another already centralizing Pokemon in M-Lopunny is thrown into the picture. Lopunny is immune to Shadow Sneak, meaning Aegis is going to need to King Shield -or- Dance up in order to hang with it. Lopunny has the ability to bait moves due to it's own relative threat level. Lopunny with Encore can stick Aegis eternally in Shield Form. High Jump Kick would hit like a truck if played with half a brain.

Mega Metagross is threatened by Aegis, but also faster and Aegis would need to SD for Sneak to OHKO. Therefore, Gross also has the ability to bait KS to some extent.

Aegislash is weak to Fire, Ground, Dark and opposing Ghost type moves. It resists just about everything else, but in today's current meta it's not -really- completely immune to three things as Scrappy immediately knocks that number down to one (Poison). Earthquake is a common Ground type coverage move that is non-contact, making King's Shield a non-issue. Flamethrower and Fire Blast are as well.

If you have a reason to critique the way suspect tests are performed, then fine, I suppose - but I think that's the whole INTENT and PURPOSE of the suspect ladder. To somewhat recreate the meta with Aegislash. This is where said argument that it's not being seen around so much is stemming from. If Aegislash is supposed to be so centralizing and broken and what not, you would think that you would see it more often and that it -would- cause problems.

I'll give you the point that Ubers is first and foremost the OU banlist - to an extent. "Island" pokemon are pokemon that deserve to have a place they can be a effective - because they aren't in tiers like PU where they absolutely aren't. Putting a pokemon in purgatory isn't justifiable if no real change is being made to the tier below with regards to the cause of the ban.

I personally think if we can't stop OU from being centralized, then unbanning Aegislash is the best route to take. I can get behind a concerted effort to make OU full of parity - but staving off Aegis while allowing other things to run free isn't a concerted effort at all.

[Reignited'Light]

Huh? What does putting Mega Lopunny and Heatran in the hot seat mean? I think Landorus-I is pretty strong and should deserve a suspect, but Landorus-T, Mega Lopunny, and Heatran are not overcentralizing/broken if Aegislash returns to OU. They will have more usage. I didn't read everything yet, so my statement may change. Just saying that one pokemon doesn't necessarily make another one broken. Just higher usage than before to check things better, no?

[Chase]

That wasn't my point Skitty. I'm not arguing about Heatran and M-Lop being OP here so much as I'm arguing that Aegislash shouldn't be banned for the same purpose. It's a high-use mon that checks a lot of other threats.

Heatran is a Pokemon that best exemplifies what "Centralization" is. It's a pokemon that is highly used because it checks so many things to the point where it - itself is a pokemon people prepare for. My argument is that -any- centralization being "okay" nullifies that argument against Aegislash. If Aegislash is a Pokemon that is used a lot and checks so many things, why should it get suspected but Heatran remain the clear?

This is where the argument of 50/50 becomes one of "Luck vs. Playmaking" - by most people's definition of "Skill" in Pokemon, it would seem like Aegislash is the embodiment of the word "Skill." The player makes a play to shut down a physical attacker anticipating a contact move and it works. The player goes for Shadow Sneak and it doesn't get the KO - resulting in Aegislash getting KO'd - meaning the play didn't work.

Does King's Shield provide a coin-flip? Yes. But it doesn't provide one that is luck-based in any sense of the word - one player outplayed the other in every situation (unless Aegis flinches the opponent with Iron Head and moves first.)

From my point of view, if we're not going to actively fight centralization and try to make OU have as much parity as possible - then we should not be throwing Pokemon on a usage island under that reasoning.

[Void]

I personally voted for metagrossite to be banned on the smogon suspect, so I'm not disagreeing with you there.

As I said before, a distinction must be made between centralizing and overcentralizing. The best pokemon always centralize, what must be looked at is the degree of centralization. Lopunny is nowhere near as centralizing as aegislash, heatran and landorus-t aren't centralizing at all. High popularity/usage stats doesn't necessarily mean a mon is centralizing, there are so many answers to heatran and landorus-t that your team will most likely have answers for them even if you don't keep checking them in mind while teambuilding. The fact is, none of the current OU pokemon centralize the meta anywhere near as much as aegislash. It alone forced nearly every physical attacker to run earthquake, mandibuzz was OU only because it countered this thing.

Looking at the new megas introduced in ORAS, lopunny checks it ONLY if it carries encore. On the other hand, it checks or counters far more new introductions, like altaria, metagross, diancie (most aegi run shadow ball btw, which ohkos mega metagross). This actually means that in ORAS, aegislash becomes even more centralizing than it was in XY.

You must also realize that on smogon, the effect of tiering changes on top-level play is more important than the effect on average and low-level play. This is because at lower levels, people generally make multiple sub-optimal plays in one game, which makes it difficult to know whether outcomes occur because of the pokemon being used or because of the players themselves. Now, at the highest level, aegislash reduces many games to 50/50s. Not that it's uncommon for games to come down to 50/50s, but aegislash will cause this to happen far more often than it should, to the extent that creative teambuilding and actual good reading of the game go out of the window in some instances.

It's not really a critique of suspect tests, no one has thought of a better system thus far so the current one is perfectly fine. However, people seem to be assuming what they've seen while they're still on low ladder is a good representation of what an aegislash metagame will actually be like, which is preposterous. Higher ladder and the newly announced suspect tournaments will give a far better idea of what it would actually be like.

I think you misunderstand what 50/50s are - skill in pokemon is knowing what the optimal plays are, being able to read the game well and knowing at all times what your opponent's possible plays are. '50/50 predictions' do not quite fall under the same category, as this is pure guesswork. Most predictions in pokemon are not 50/50s, there is usually a move that your opponent is most likely to go for. The kind of coinflip predictions that aegislash forces aren't like this - there are two options, king shield or attack, and you have no way of knowing which it'll go for as long as your opponent is halfway decent.

Ubers is first and foremost the OU banlist, to the fullest extent. There is no debate to be had about this, this is how the tiering system Smogon have created has worked since day 1. On smogon, users are regularly told to refrain from using the viability of suspected pokemon in ubers as an argument. If you disagree with how this works, that is perfectly fine, but we are discussing this in the context of the smogon tiering system, so we should stick to it. Not to mention aegislash being unviable in ubers is purely your opinion, I believe it works perfectly well as a utility mon in ubers. Smogon's uber council (people who actually play ubers at the most competitive level) also agree with me, having given it a B rank viability. In any case, aegislash's viability in ubers is irrelevant to this discussion, this is a fact and not subject to dispute.

[Chase]

You can't make a distinction between centralized and centralized. If the tier is going to have -any- degree of it, Aegislash is a perfectly check-able mon.

I'd also like to posit that the fact that because there is a chance for high-level play to come down to a 50/50 anyway - this also can't be used against Aegislash. You're fighting an ideal war but not fighting it 100 percent of the way through. "Way more than it should" is an opinion and it implies that Pokemon is a game that can be made to be as skill dependent as possible. That's not the case. Pokemon is a game that will always involve some degree of luck and will always reward daring players just as much as it does intuitive players at times. The definition of being "skillful" at Pokemon is relative and not absolute.

I don't think creative teambuilding would suffer as much as your making it sound, and even if it did, there is probably a way to be creative -and- take down Aegislash. At least, I know -I- would be looking for that way because that's the most enjoyable part of the game for me.

[Void]

Competitive battlers have been making the distinction between centralized and overcentralized for ages now, that's how the term overcentralized came about in the first place. Overcentralizating the metagame is one of reasons listed by smogon for banning a pokemon. 'Centralizing' simply refers to the top threats and their counters being of the utmost importance in the metagame, which is perfectly fine not to mention unavoidable. Even if we ban the pokemon you've mentioned, the next best and most viable pokemon will 'centralize'. Overcentralization is when the metagame revolves around a single pokemon - which is exactly what aegislash does.

What the tiering system tries to do is to eliminate luck from the game as much as possible. Hax happens in pokemon, but does that mean swagplay should be allowed again? Or should we ban stuff like serene grace jirachi for the sake of 'fighting it 100 percent of the way through'? You're exactly right about what I was implying - Pokemon is a game that can be made to be as skill dependent as possible, that is the very reason smogon created their brand of competitive battling.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Void

[Chase]

I guess we'll have to disagree.

For the record, I don't think swagplay should be allowed, and I -would- be okay with banning Serene Grace Jirachi for the sake of making the game based on relative skill as opposed to RNG. The problem I have with this tiering approach is that it's not getting the job done if that's what it's setting out to do.

I believe Aegislash is a Pokemon that can be dealt with. While it may be high use, I don't think it will be as much of a problem as people are making it out to be. I think poor players will want to avoid using it because it is dependent on having relative skill. I think higher level players will be able to take it out without problem and having their hand forced shouldn't be a problem either because - even if to a lesser degree - this already happens. In my opinion, OverUsed -is- overcentralized.

In yours, you think the meta is in good shape. That's our impasse. Your approach is "why break something that works fine?" - Mine is "why not continue with one trend or the other."

[AuthorReborn]

I never really played XY, so I don't know about it all that well. But I can say one thing quite easily:

Mega Loppuny>>>>>>> Ageislash

Scrappy completely nullifies its normally excellent defensive typing and if your M-Loppuny carries Power-Up Punch, King's Sheild doesn't even matter. Not to mention the ever common and ever powerful Special Attacking Fire types which wokr their way onto most teams, may it be Zard-Y or Volcarona or even Heatran, all of these completely decimate Aegislash. Also, any Ground type has a strong advantage over it through the lovely fact that EQ is a non-contact move, and as such, King's Sheild doesn't work as well as the blade weilder might hope. And frankly, 9/10 OU teams have a Ground type. Also: Mega Sabeleye. I haven't done the calcs yet, but it should be able to easily come in on Aegislash and simply burn it if it's physical and proceed to CM or simply start CMing up immediately. ORAS Megas have completely changed the game. Aegislash is no Mega Gengar.

It is easily countered and killed, so my vote goes towards bringing it back to OU.

[Lil' Baby Rupe]

Before I start talking I think it should be said that I'm currently undecided on which side of the fence I stand with this suspect. There are definitely positives and negatives that come with Aegislash into the OU meta. I'm not here to argue any side just provide some extra detail which some of you here may have overlooked.

In XY OU, Aegislash was a massive threat. It was seen on every single team because of how versatile it was, how well it checked and countered many top threats in the tier and how many different positions it can fill only using one slot. There was not a down side to using Aegislash, it was simply one of the best 'mons in OU. Not because it was "uncounterable" or "uncheckable", because it definitely is, but because it was simply too versatile, with incredible defensive and offensive usages. Below are some popular aegislash sets, with the set I named "Standard.dot" being one of the most wide spread :

Standard.dot

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword / Iron Head / Flash Cannon
- Shadow Sneak

Swords Dance
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- King's Shield / Iron Head / Head Smash

Special Defensive
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- King's Shield
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Shadow Ball

There are of course many different variations in items and EVs, but this is just a look at the popular sets and what they run.

Popular pokemon in the tier and how they fare against Aegislash. You can decide for yourself what is a check or counter, and what Aegislash checks and counters.

(Calcs are included, also be aware that SR damage.)

Mega Metagross

252 Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 168-198 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 75-88 (23.2 - 27.2%) -- 59.1% chance to 4HKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 294-348 (97.6 - 115.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

8 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 98-116 (32.5 - 38.5%) -- 96% chance to 3HKO

Aegislash will force Metagross to run Earthquake over Hammer Arm if it wants to beat it on the potential switch in.

Mega Diancie

252 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 162-192 (50.1 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 108-128 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 63-75 (19.5 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO

4 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 57-68 (17.6 - 21%) -- possible 5HKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 652-772 (270.5 - 320.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 163-193 (67.6 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

8 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 58-69 (24 - 28.6%) -- 95.8% chance to 4HKO

Mega Altaria

+1 192+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 214-254 (66.2 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 106-126 (32.8 - 39%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 166-196 (51.3 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 306-362 (99.6 - 117.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

8 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 58-69 (18.8 - 22.4%) -- possible 5HKO

192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 72-84 (22.2 - 26%) -- 6% chance to 4HKO

Keldeo

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 138-163 (42.7 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 174-205 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

8 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 67-81 (20.7 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO

Mega Lopunny

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 308-366 (95.3 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

-2 252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 156-186 (48.2 - 57.5%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 60-72 (18.5 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO

8 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 194-230 (71.5 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 166-196 (61.2 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Please note with Mega lopunny that you are not safe just because you have Scappy. King's Shield will still reduce your attack and if you use HJK you will lose 50% of your health. To "argue" with a previous commenter, Power Up Punch won't help you one bit against Aegislash.

Latios

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 97-114 (30 - 35.2%) -- 25.1% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 120-143 (37.1 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 294-348 (98.3 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

8 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 150-176 (50.1 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Scizor

+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 244-288 (75.5 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 84-99 (26 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 160-189 (56.9 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

8 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 46-55 (16.3 - 19.5%) -- possible 6HKO

Landorus-T

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 252-296 (78 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Landorus-T Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 110-130 (34 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 193-228 (60.5 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 8 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 45-54 (14.1 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO

8 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 67-79 (21 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Mega Sableye

4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 108-128 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 Atk Mega Sableye Foul Play vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 84-102 (26 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO

(Note that Sableye can run Calm Mind sets)

Potential Meta-Game changes:

Some notable mons that will probably decline in usage with Aegislash in the tier:

Celebi

Jirachi

Hawlucha

Mega Heracross

Mega Pinsir

Mega Metagross

Mega Diancie

Mega Altaria

Mega Lopunny

Mega Gardevoir

Mega Gallade / Medicham

Starmie

Mew

Some notable mons that will probably increase in usage with Aegislash in the tier:

Landorus-T

Mandibuzz

Tornadus-T

Bisharp

Charizard-X

Charizard-Y

Tyranitar

Excadrill

Gliscor (Specially defensive)

Feel free to agree or disagree with the above.

I planned on writing a lot but then i kinda lost motivation. I guess this is something that might be useful for people.

Final things to consider:

How much usage this thing will see because of simply how good it is and how many of the top tier threats (see: S and A+ rank) it deals with. Do you want to see it on every team? Will it be on every team?

The inevitable 50/50s that King's Shield will produce.

Will people end up using a formula of Aegislash / Mon to deal with Aegis / Mon to sweep after Aegis + 3 mons?

Will Aegislash solve all of our issues?

Does Lopunny with Power-Up-Punch completely deal with Aegislash?????

No. Lol.