Reborn Pokemon Viability Thread

[Darvan Korematsu]

After reading the thread for Rejuvination, I wanted to form a thread of certain Pokemon that are good in certain situations and can pull their weight in certain parts, or most parts of the game. I will include all the starters at least, determining an opinion, and a decent reason why.

Some Pokemon will be labeled differently, but this is how I will score them

-S Rank: The best Pokemon in the game that self-sufficient or can wreck teams by themselves, or stop certain combos, or are crux in certain important battles. Little or no EV investment will work on these guys.

-A Rank: Pokemon that are still amazing but may have one or two weaknesses that hold them back from being useful. Team support would make them as deadly if not moreso than S Rank. Likjewise, if they can provide support that can make their teammates amazing.

-B Rank: Pokemon that have notable weaknesses or lacks of strength, but their moves, abilities, typing, etc. more than make up for their weaknesses. These Pokemon would need way more team

-C Rank: Pokemon that have no chance of destroying teams later on, and are better off as support, or only useful in the early game.

-D Rank: Less than adequate C Rank Pokemon. Little to no chance of being included on a team except in the most niche situations

-F Rank: Only has one use, and usually said use is for garbage. These Pokemon suck in general speaking Reborn

RULES: For an analysis, we will be assuming that these are natural Pokemon. They are the originals and can have no EMs on them (Egg Moves). Will only use movepools available naturally and by TM

The Starters

S rank

-Torchic line

Basically if you use Blaziken on your Reborn runthroughs, and you're not a noob, you'll understand why this guy is amazing and easily the best starter. With the Holy Grail in Speed Boost and multiple power moves in Flare Blitz, HJK, and Brave Bird, Blaziken can sweep through opposing teams and hold it's own, cutting through like a hot knife through butter. Bulk Up also adds to Iit's bulkiness, allowing amazing sweeps. This Pokemon is just too amazing.

A Rank

-Chimchar line

This little guy and it's evolved forms are a weaker Blaziken, except it is graced with priority, a good ability, and an extreme power move early on. Amongst the faster starters without a boost. Learns enough moves to support it's ability in Iron Fist, and even more assuming you want to breed, and has a powerful coverage in Acrobatics.

-Bulbasaur line

With an early access to Sleep Powder, decent bulk, Chlorophyll, a self-recovery move, and an ok typing, Bulbasaur is an excellent option for the grass starters, especially because of the versatility to go from tank to potential sun sweeper.

-Fennekin line

Psychic is a decent typing in the early game, and the moves this baby can learn can carry it through mid to late game with little problem, and access to Magician, which is an ok ability. The stat spread is pretty good for a special attacker. Magician also allows Fennekin to steal certain items, such as essential Lefties that one may need.

-Turtwig line

Turtwig and it's evolved forms are excellent users at a physical stall game. With one of the few natural EQ learners in the whole game, and a good power move in Wood Hammer, and it's own recovery, all which are available early to mid game, make this tank no pushover like normal turtles would be.

-Froakie line

Although this Pokemon is held back by paltry stats and a movepool in the early game, this natural speed demon gains probably the second best ability in the game in Protean, allowing the usual Protean mind tricks. With access to Ice Beam, Surf, Dark Pulse, and Extrasensory later on, and bonus STAB from Protean, this little frog can hold it's own in certain situations, even with a decent physical access as well.

-Chespin line

Although having a bad Speed, the role of this guy is self-sufficient tank. This guy though, is lacking when compared to Torterra who can absorb more hits, and this guy lacks EQ. The only reliable self-recovery move has to be bred onto it though. Bulletproof is also one of those abilities you would think is amazing in some cases, but where it comes in handy are few and far between. Still has good coverage in Pin Missile. Has good STAB in Hammer Arm, Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer, and has natural access to Bulk Up which can boost it's tanky ability.

B Rank

-Charmander line

Charmander is a decent Pokemon in the early and mid game with access to Dragon Rage and accuracy-lowering moves that can throw off an opponent. Has a decent speed compared to other starters in the lines of sweeping. Has double STAB in Air Slash and Heat Wave/Flamethrower, although Air Slash not being available until the Agate Circus, for it must be tutored. Both abilities are relatively useless most of the time, but they still have niche uses.

-Tepig line

Bacon strip here has nothing particularly special to it, except for the fact it has VERY powerful moves, and a nice powerful coverage move in Head Smash. If you opt for Flame Charge early in the game, this little piggy can be very deadly very fast. In the middle to late game, it's ok at best because of the bad speed and ok-ish defenses, but the power moves make up for it. Thick Fat for this typing is not the best.

-Cyndaquil line

Fast and good ability either way you want to hack it, good for soaking Fire moves and WoWs. Only real saving grace is the Eruption that can be tutored on at the Agate Circus, or house in Onyx if you play earlier episodes. Otherwise, this thing loses out against most of the other Fire types.

-Oshawott line

A good mixed attacker with natural access to Swords Dance. Shell Armor is a hit-or-miss ability, but it's better than the base Torrent. Samurott's Speed is terrible, but can be made up for with Aqua Jet, which the line also has natural access to. Also obtains Encore, a good jamming move if it hits at the right time. Also has natural access to Revenge, giving it good Fighting coverage, and Megahorn which can be tutored on at Agate Circus. Defenses are also meh.

C Rank

-Treecko line

Being a natural speed demon, and a good Unburden ability, one would think Sceptile would rank higher. Quite frankly it sucks in the early game, and it's mid to late game leaves it outclassed by most other Grass types. Speed is the one thing going for it, as Special Attack is good but only has Leaf Storm and Grass Knot that make use of it at this point. The physical coverage it has is really good, but the Attack is lacking to pack a punch most of the time. Speed is basically Scep's best friend

-Snivy line

Snivy is a good Pokemon with Contrary, don't get me wrong. But it's just terrible with Contrary until it can learn Leaf Storm which can be picked up at a late level or tutored at Agate. The special movepool is lacking, and it's not like you're getting HP Fire everytime, because this isn't Showdown. Has good boosting moves in Coil and Growth, and a better speed than some of the other starters, and the physical move pool is ok. However unboosted, this little snakey sucks.

-Squirtle line

Sorry but you suck, but you have a few redeeming qualities. Access to Flash Cannon, Protect, and natural Rain Dance are your only saving graces. In early to mid game you suck, and Rain Dish is useless without the rain. Otherwise do not bother.

-Mudkip line

Mudkip and Swampert are both not bad Pokemon, but their movepools are shallow in the physical side until about mid game when it gets Earthquake. Still has good coverage in Hammer Arm, which can be tutored, and Waterfall, which comes later, but this is a high C rank because of what makes it bad in early to mid game.

-Totodile line

Without breeding, this Pokemon is paltry at best. Sheer Force is a good ability, but the access to moves that make Sheer Force usable are not plentiful. Attack and Defense are ok, but everything else is meh at best.

-Piplup line

While Defiant also is a cool ability and this Pokemon has a decent typing, it's stats don't distribute fairly with some moves it obtains. A special attacker and defender through and through with not much of a good special pool. The physical pool is decent, and there is priority on this pengu, but Defiant is not usable enough and the Attack is not very good.

D Rank

-Chikorita line

In the same boat as Blastoise. The biggest reason that this Pokemon is the worst out of all the starters is it's typing and useless ability make it quite possibly the worst starter out of all 18. However, grass types are given no reprieve in the early game. It does however, have some status, recovery, and access to dual screens all naturally.

Up next comes the Pokemon obtainable before Gym 1 (Peridot, Opal, under the Railnet)

Edited May 20, 2015 by Darvan Korematsu

[Simon]

I swear there was like two threads already for this for Reborn. I don't know what happened to them, but oh well. Hopefully this helps others as much as I saw with the one for Rejuvenation.

[ShadowStar]

Yeah there were a few threads like this a while back. Anyways, guess I may as well help contribute!

Infernape (A+ - S) : Second to Speed Boost Blaziken in my opinion. Infernape is very fast and gets great coverage (Grass Knot, Acrobatics ect.). Infernape is a bit frail but he will be outspeeding and KOing anything that is favorable. Saved my butt against Terra with Grass Knot. Great Mixed Offense.

My Set: Flare Blitz./Flamethrower , Close Combat, Grass Knot, Mach Punch

Diggersby: (A+ - S) : Get this mon early. Evolves early. Hits SUPER hard. Just mine some heart scales for a large movepool. Access to SD Boosting. Just need to get Return... (I know we won't)

Will be back with more soon.

[Masquerain]

Technician Kricketune is so op early game it's not even fun to play through with it :I

[ShadowStar]

Gengar : (Mid to High A) : Really fast n powerful. However, Gengar comes rather late. Gengar is also rather frail. Shadow Ball is useful due to the many fields that buff it. Cofarigus helps in the battle required to obtain Gengar.

Magnezone (Mid A) : Good STAB and SpAtk. Pretty good bulk. Very good typing. It glues my team together by giving me switch-ins to various Mons allowing me to heal if needed. A puzzle is required to evolve Magneton.

[zareason]

From my experience:

Blaziken S: Been useful on every gym until now, can't count the amount of times my where my whole strategy was to set him up with around 3-4 Bulk Ups.

Floatzel (A/B): If you do the magma gang story line he comes at a perfect time, directly useful with aqua jet one shotting the rock/bug of shelly. Has good stats as well as a good move set, wrecked charlotte so easy it wasn't funny. One weakness is that his later on his moveset becomes lackluster, but that is compensated by tms.

Golem (A/B): Stealth rocks is OP against Shelly, gets earthquake and rock blast really. Sturdy makes him so much more effective, and he's a great defensive tank. Very versatile moveset.

Nidoking (A/B): One of the best move sets without tms/breeding, one shot Lunas Malmar while being 10 levels behind without being ev trained. Very versatile and useful, though has defensive weaknesses.

Meowstic (C/B) : Amazing early on, was my main carry against four gym leaders and very useful against Cain. Though get's weaker as you progress through the game, was barely effective against Samson.

Edited May 19, 2015 by zareason

[Red'sCharizard]

To expand on Blaziken's viability:

S Rank: This Pokemon is hands down the best starter - great offensive stats, amazing ability and incredibly strong STAB moves in the form of High Jump Kick and Flare Blitz make it near unmatched once it reaches that oh so sweet level 36. It also gets Bulk Up, so one can set up a few of those and perhaps sweep just about any team. There has not been any point in the game where I found that it wasn't able to do anything. It helps greatly with Florinia, Shelly, Serra, Noel and can also be good against Samson if running Brave Bird.

[pyroice]

To expand on Blaziken's viability:

S Rank: This Pokemon is hands down the best starter - great offensive stats, amazing ability and incredibly strong STAB moves in the form of High Jump Kick and Flare Blitz make it near unmatched once it reaches that oh so sweet level 36. It also gets Bulk Up, so one can set up a few of those and perhaps sweep just about any team. There has not been any point in the game where I found that it wasn't able to do anything. It helps greatly with Florinia, Shelly, Serra, Noel and can also be good against Samson if running Brave Bird.

I agree with you. Sometimes you don't even need flare blitz (Or if you just don't like recoil damage that much), If Blaziken is set with 2-3 Bulk Ups (plus speed boost) it can pretty much sweep anything without much effort.

[dondon151]

This Pokemon is hands down the best starter - great offensive stats, amazing ability and incredibly strong STAB moves in the form of High Jump Kick and Flare Blitz make it near unmatched once it reaches that oh so sweet level 36.

The move tutor requires the House Key to access, which isn't accessible until you've unlocked the puzzle portion of the Railnet. By that point Blaziken should be ~L50. Even without the move tutor moves before then, he still has Double Kick and Blaze Kick with Bulk Up for set-up.

Blaziken either needs to be by himself in S rank or have an even higher tier to himself; he's clearly the best Pokemon in the game and a cut above the rest.

The problem with these viability threads is that you're going to get a bunch of players claiming that some mediocre Pokemon is S/A tier with supporting evidence that amounts to "this Pokemon does well in this one situation." I think if you want to do this in a more systematic way, limit the discussion to Pokemon available at a certain time first so that you don't have to deal with ranking hundreds of Pokemon at once. A good starting point would be just ranking the 18 starter Pokemon according to this tier system. After that we can move on to ranking the Pokemon obtainable in Peridot Ward. The benefit to this method is that players just starting out the game are obviously the most curious about the viability of Pokemon that are most immediately available.

You (meaning the TC) also have to stipulate how we should weigh factors such as egg moves and old breeding mechanics. Some players will assume that egg moves should be a given, and some may even assume that TMs can be bred. Others (like me) think that breeding is too much of an investment to be seriously considered in these rankings and Pokemon should be judged only by their level-up movepool and available TMs.

Edited May 18, 2015 by dondon151

[Flynn]

Pidgeot ( C ): Pidgeot is a high quality support Pokemon throughout all levels of the game even up through Episode 14. Pidgeot has access to two core moves and a third of high use that places it in a position to benefit every team. Tailwind is obvious as to how it helps. A massive speed boost to your team for a short amount of time that enables your heavy hitters to outspeed the opponent whereas they normally couldn't. Feather Dance is, in my opinion, one of the greatest moves in the game. It allows Pidgeot to utterly cripple physical threats and allow even your glassiest sweepers to set up with their Quiver Dances or Bulk Ups and smash through the remainder of the enemy's team. With Pidgeot above average speed, it makes life so much easier. Unfortunately, Pidgeot's offensive standard is horrendous past Shelly, but with these two moves coupled with Roost for further resilience, Pidgeot can definitely be the Pokemon you need on your team.

-

Lanturn ( B ): (Chinchou/Lanturn is still available via wild encounter, right?) Now, Lanturn will not be sweeping teams any time soon outside of some hilarious status hacks scandal, but Lanturn is one of the most useful supportive Pokemon in the game from personal experience. With a massive HP stat coupled with a moderate Sp. Defensive stat, Lanturn fits exceptionally well as a special tank. In addition, Lanturn sports two abilities that put it in a great defensive position. Water Absorb and Volt Absorb, grabbing either is a smart decision (I suggest Volt Absorb). Alongside this, Lanturn has access to some game changing status moves being Thunder Wave and Confuse Ray and Eerie Impulse to perform the same role Pidgeot performs with Feather Dance to cripple special sweepers and allow your own to set up. Not to mention that Lanturn has access to Stockpile to increase tank that much further. With access to Discharge and Surf, both strong moves that are also STAB in the hands... Flippers.. Of Lanturn, it's easy to see how Lanturn can find a spot on almost any team.

-

Meowstic Male( C/B depending on the team. Sorry for repeating something you've already stated Zareason, but I feel as though this could use some further explanation ): Meowstic is a very solid Pokemon in its role. As much as I love both of them, female Meowstic unfortunately lacks the ability and move pool that makes male Meowstic so useful. Meowstic serves two separate roles throughout the game. One up to Aya, and past that, another one entirely. Before Aya, Meowstic serves as a solid sweeper with its modestly useful special attack stat and Psyshock. It'll definitely be of help throughout the early stages of the game. Once Meowstic's offensive power falls off, Meowstic transitions from sweeper into support. With Prankster Light Screen and Reflect and whatever status moves we find that he can learn, examples being Sunny Day or Rain Dance in case your team prospers from weather support or you want to cripple Charlotte's field. Prankster Light Screen/Reflect, however, is what really gives Meowstic its place. Halving damage on both spectrum and easing the burden your team has to take.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Flynn

[Deleted User]

After much moving and shaking I think this could be a good thing to have this new one. However I'd advise waiting for Episode 15 to be released to compile a real list.

[Darvan Korematsu]

Well I'll compile the starters list tomorrow, and edit it as needed when E15 comes out. I would like to talk about a couple of hidden gems that some may overlook.

Machamp: (A- to This guy is balls off the walls if you use Trick Room setup, but he's pretty versatile in the moves he can learn. Status spam? Guts can handle it. Anything else? No Guard Dynamic Punch. No Guard can destroy teams in Double Battles when it's paired with a fast Pokemon with an OHKO move. One of the few mons that can naturally learn Knock Off, which is pretty useful in certain portions of the game with annoying items on certain mons. Has access to priority through breeding in Bullet Punch. Ok bulk.

Noivern: (Solid A) Noivern is not the prettiest weapon of Reborn's arsenal, but the thing is an absolute beast as support. Access to Super Fang, self-recovery, a high-chance flinch move in Air Slash, and most importantly, Tailwind, which can make the hardest of battles eons easier by making your Pokemon able to outspeed the opponent most of the time. Frisk is nice for scouting, and Telepathy is nice tech for Surf, Sludge Wave, and Discharge abusers on your team.

Excadrill: (A+ hands down) Although it's Steel type moves are lacking in Iron Head, with access to Swords Dance and EQ real early, this guy is an easy boss. When paired with Machamp, it becomes an OHKO machine, and becomes a near sweeper when paired with Noivern. It's meh speed can be tossed aside after a Tailwind boost, but for everyday wear and tear, this one is a king. Mold Breaker and Sand Force are both good abilities depending on what you want in coverage.

Staraptor (B to B+) With access to either Intimidate or Reckless, both of these abilities are really good again depending on what your team needs. Has a good attack and better speed than most of the sweeper Pokemon you have later in the game. Would be insanely OP if obtainable earlier. Coverage in Close Combat, helping this guy dent the Pokemon that would normally wall him.

Ninetales (A easily) Not so much of a hidden gem. This one is available at a decent point in the game, fairly obtainableafter three badges. Drought is good for powering up fire users on your team and allowing Pokemon weak to Water to stand a chance. Natural access to burn and confusion make this Pokemon one of the good status users on Reborn.

EDIT: I ACTUALLY LIKE DONDON'S IDEA OF RATING POKEMON BY AREA. I THINK ORGANIZING THEM INTO TIERS BY USABILITY IN THE GAME IS A GOOD SYSTEM. LOOKING FORWARD TO CONTRIBUTIONS.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Darvan Korematsu

[Fumble]

Haven't played this game in a while, since I've been focusing on Rejuvenation, but I'll try.

Malamar (B+)

Malamar has an amazing Ability in Contrary. Combine that with Superpower and you got yourself a sweeper that can also live some more hits. There's also Psycho Cut and Night Slash for coverage! This is great for Aya, Serra, Noel, Radomus, Luna, and Samson since its moves are great for those fights. The downside is that Malamar has quite a few weaknesses, including a 4× to Bug...

[NameNotFound]

I'd put Medicham pretty high (like B+ or A). When it doesn't miss HJK (and mine usually does cuz game likes to troll me) it destroyes opponents mon.

Honchkrow (B to B+)- I like running crit set with scope lens, Honchkrow helped me a lot, however I'm not sure if it'd be so useful without EV investment.

Pachirisu (C ) Great additon to the team early on, but not so great later on

Greninja, ehhh I'm not sure what to do with this one, if we ignore the fact that it's lame till like Luna it is definitely S rank (or at least A+), untill you get dark pulse extrasensory is its only atk worth of mentioning, so I dunno.

Edited May 18, 2015 by NameNotFound

[dondon151]

EDIT: I ACTUALLY LIKE DONDON'S IDEA OF RATING POKEMON BY AREA. I THINK ORGANIZING THEM INTO TIERS BY USABILITY IN THE GAME IS A GOOD SYSTEM. LOOKING FORWARD TO CONTRIBUTIONS.

Glad you're on board. I ranked the starter Pokemon in a previous thread not too long ago, so I'll start with my opinion. Pokemon within tiers aren't ordered.

S tier:

Torchic

I think that Torchic is so good that it needs its own tier. I'd even say that there are no S tier Pokemon in this game other than Torchic. It has an excellent offensive typing, ideal offensive stat distribution, and a level-up movepool that contains strong STABs and Bulk Up. Base 80 spd is pretty good to begin with and outspeeds almost everything after a single turn of Speed Boost.

A tier:

Bulbasaur

Turtwig

Chimchar

Snivy

Fennekin

Bulbasaur, Turtwig, and Snivy are here because they have the potential to trivialize battles with a combination of Leech Seed and a stat boosting move. Bulbasaur also has early Sleep Powder access. Turtwig has speed issues, though, so I'm not sure if it belongs here or in a lower tier.

Chimchar is a worse version of Torchic. Fennekin has a great offensive typing, good offensive stats where it matters, and one of the best support level-up movepools of all starters.

B tier:

Charmander

Cyndaquil

Tepig

Oshawott

Chespin

Froakie

Charmander has a great earlygame with Dragon Rage, but doesn't keep up with the power later in the game since it doesn't have super hard-hitting moves or set-up moves without breeding. Cyndaquil is the inverse of that; it's underwhelming until Eruption. Tepig is a worse version of Chimchar. It still has the good typing, but it really needs Flame Charge set-up to work.

Oshawott actually has a surprisingly decent level-up movepool with an early Razor Shell and late Swords Dance. People are either going to agree or vehemently disagree with my placement of Froakie, but it's a C-tier Pokemon for half of the game and an A-tier Pokemon for half of the game because it learns most of its coverage moves through TMs that are obtainable late or not at all. Water-type starters are kind of bad on the whole in Reborn because they're held back a lot by being weak against the first two gyms.

Chespin is a lot like Turtwig, the major difference being that Chespin gets Bulk Up much later than Turtwig gets Curse. Maybe they belong in the same tier.

C tier:

Squirtle

Totodile

Treecko

Mudkip

Piplup

These guys just have mediocre level-up movepools combined with sub-par typings. Mudkip has a good defensive typing, but its movepool is full of special moves until Earthquake.

D tier:

Chikorita

Chikorita sucks.

Edited May 19, 2015 by dondon151

[CoolTrainerGary]

Glad you're on board. I ranked the starter Pokemon in a previous thread not too long ago, so I'll start with my opinion. Pokemon within tiers aren't ordered.

S tier:

Torchic

I think that Torchic is so good that it needs its own tier. I'd even say that there are no S tier Pokemon in this game other than Torchic. It has an excellent offensive typing, ideal offensive stat distribution, and a level-up movepool that contains strong STABs and Bulk Up. Base 80 spd is pretty good to begin with and outspeeds almost everything after a single turn of Speed Boost.

A tier:

Bulbasaur

Turtwig

Chimchar

Snivy

Fennekin

Bulbasaur, Turtwig, and Snivy are here because they have the potential to trivialize battles with a combination of Leech Seed and a stat boosting move. Bulbasaur also has early Sleep Powder access. Turtwig has speed issues, though, so I'm not sure if it belongs here or in a lower tier.

Chimchar is a worse version of Torchic. Fennekin has a great offensive typing, good offensive stats where it matters, and one of the best support level-up movepools of all starters.

B tier:

Charmander

Cyndaquil

Tepig

Oshawott

Chespin

Froakie

Charmander has a great earlygame with Dragon Rage, but doesn't keep up with the power later in the game since it doesn't have super hard-hitting moves or set-up moves without breeding. Cyndaquil is the inverse of that; it's underwhelming until Eruption. Tepig is a worse version of Chimchar. It still has the good typing, but it really needs Flame Charge set-up to work.

Oshawott actually has a surprisingly decent level-up movepool with an early Razor Shell and late Swords Dance. People are either going to agree or vehemently disagree with my placement of Froakie, but it's a C-tier Pokemon for half of the game and an A-tier Pokemon for half of the game because it learns most of its coverage moves through TMs that are obtainable late or not at all. Water-type starters are kind of bad on the whole in Reborn because they're held back a lot by being weak against the first two gyms.

Chespin is a lot like Turtwig, the major difference being that Chespin gets Bulk Up much later than Turtwig gets Curse. Maybe they belong in the same tier.

C tier:

Squirtle

Totodile

Treecko

Mudkip

Piplup

These guys just have mediocre level-up movepools combined with sub-par typings. Mudkip has a good defensive typing, but its movepool is full of special moves until Earthquake.

D tier:

Chikorita

Chikorita sucks.

I agree with all of this pretty much besides turtwig and snivy, they should both drop a tier.

I feel like there should be inbetween ranks of A+, B+, C+ etc. tho. For example, Azumarril can be caught early on, has a monstrous attack stat when taking Huge Power into account, great neutral coverage w/ its STABs and gets all the moves necessary (bar Aqua Jet) through level up. It is most certainly better than all A rank pokemon, it may even be on par w/ torchic tbh, but if not it at least deserves to fit into an A+ rank bc it is so much better than every other pokemon at that A level.

Edited May 19, 2015 by nasserthemaster

[dondon151]

I agree with all of this pretty much besides turtwig and snivy, they should both drop a tier.

Turtwig has vulnerabilities because of low speed and a 4x weakness, but Snivy has early Growth + Leech Seed and later can Coil past everything. Its movepool kind of blows, but with sufficient boosts it can simply set up more with Coil + Leech Seed, particularly against physical opponents. I feel like Snivy is the second most self-sufficient starter behind Torchic, but I haven't played with it so I don't really know.

I feel like there should be inbetween ranks of A+, B+, C+ etc. tho. For example, Azumarril can be caught early on, has a monstrous attack stat when taking Huge Power into account, great neutral coverage w/ its STABs and gets all the moves necessary (bar Aqua Jet) through level up. It is most certainly better than all A rank pokemon, it may even be on par w/ torchic tbh, but if not it at least deserves to fit into an A+ rank bc it is so much better than every other pokemon at that A level.

There are arguments for and against more tiers; I think the problem with having more tiers is that there's going to be less agreement and more argument over small differences, and having more tiers at the middle to lower end of the list isn't very productive.

[Darvan Korematsu]

Ok I don't want this thread blowing up with pointless arguing over intricate detail. I will not make specific subtiers, but instead make a potential to where people may think it goes, and it stays in a certain tier. For instance, why I put Turtwig line as an A is because of the potential it has for sweeping the the power. That is not as good as Bulbasaur's versatility.

I'll put tiers but not subtiers, only what people may think as for a subtier range. Turtwig could go B+ to A, whereas Venusaur can go from A- to A+.

I am really tired for now, so I made four or five starters to give a preview. Will get a tad more intricate as time goes on.

[Chase]

This thread sounds like a really cool idea, but as of right now (with an unfinished game) I could really only see this being thorough enough for only some of the Pokemon to get a real decent shake. Obviously Pokemon that appear late in the game have a "tendency" - so Dondon doesn't jump all over me - to be better options then their early game counterparts. Obviously Pokemon you get from an event will be better than those you find in the wild - "in most cases", and obviously viability is subjective - even when discussing Smogon's competitive threads which try to reduce the amount of subjectivity as much as possible. Nevertheless, I've got one rank just for the fun of it.

Makuhita & Hariyama - A(generally) Rank

This Pokemon line has a choice of three fantastic abilities that are almost always going to be positives for any trainer using them throughout the entire game. With Move Tutors existing (I don't see location as relevant as others would) in Reborn, Makuhita has the potential to be a mainstay despite being found early on. The line finds it's first spoils in felling Florinia's ace in Cradily when not many other options are viable outside of Fire Fighter starters. Thick Fat Hariyama fits well on teams looking to contend with Serra and Charlotte, as Fire and Ice is weakened. Shade's Pokemon are susceptible to Knock Off - a move Makuhita's line picks up during level up. Bullet Punch is an option potentially against Adrienn in terms of Revenge Kill possibilities - Sheer Force Hariyama has the potential to cause massive damage to non resisters, and Guts is a nice ability that soaks up status and makes Hariyama threatening.

[Arkhi]

Metagross: S
C'mon, really? It's a wrecking ball.

Excadrill: A-

This thing works wonders. It's outstanding if you put love into training it. Even without, it's a competent sweeper.

Escavalier: B
If not for its lack of speed, Escavalier would be S. However, because it lacks stellar sweeping potential, it is lower. Its bulk is still outstanding.

Zangoose: B

It's always worked for me... Facade/Slash, X-Scissor, CCombat, and Swords Dance for days. You just gotta set up first, sometimes.

Clawitzer: B-
This thing packs a punch for its ease of obtaining and training. Plus, the Sphere and Pulse moves it obtains are from level up. It's not outstanding, but good for what it's worth.

Chandelure: B-

It's great, but slow. Other special attackers can outclass it, but this one's still fun to use, due to its unique and volatile typing.
Pinsir/Heracross: C+
They can put in work against Luna and some against Samson, but are lackluster.
Donphan: C+
Easy to obtain, easy to train, and overall good in battles. It can be great if you put in the time to breed it for more moves.

Yanmega: C+
GET IT. It takes a long time to obtain, especially with Speed Boost, but it can work well in battles without much need for support.
Nidoking: C
This thing can do alright. It is an alright split attacker with Sheer Force.
Galvantula: C-

If only because you obtain it late-game. Plus, getting the right moves and ability can be time-consuming. It won't last long in Reborn, but puts up a good fight while it does.
Aggron: D+

It's eh unless you like it. The two 4x weaknesses make it incredibly difficult to use in late-game, due to Samson & Terra.

[Vinny]

I was so going to make this topic after ep.15 came out :[

Will only accept if there is a tier called "God" and Gyarados is there, as a trophy.

And, since Etesian isn't here, i'll ask for him: Are you going to consider breeding stuff? I'm not even talking about the whole "going back to episode 13 to get the TMs through breeding".

Example: Feraligatr is a monster if you breed it to get Dragon Dance. So, it is something to consider.

I'd like to know your opinion on that. Other than that, gr8 topic m8 r8 8/8

Edited May 19, 2015 by Vinny

[BIGJRA]

Piplup is, for me, a D rank, because even though Defiant can be decent for up to the second gym-ish, it lacks any power to perform after that. Even with a Defiant Aqua Jet set, it underperformed in the physical attacks department until I could get it to learn Surf WAYYYY into the story.

[ShadowStar]

Looking good so far! Will write more in-depth analysis' of other Pokemon later.

[Antilegend]

[REDACTED]

Edited May 19, 2015 by Antilegend

[ShadowStar]

Noivern - B-/B

Noibat is very good against the second gym since you'll want to preserve your fighting type for good 'ol Cradily. However, Noibat evolves very late. Noivern's movepool is pretty good if you invest some Heart Scales into him. Mining is the best way to go about this. Just save before each rock! However, some good TMs don't come until very late (Flamethrower). Air Cutter is an excellent early-game option. Natural Roost is good for conserving Potions. B Rank from me!

Roserade - B+/A-/A

The Roserade evolution line has a large repertoire of support options at their disposal. When I say support I mean moves that inflict status ailments, entry hazards, and others. Roserade is also a very hard hitter. As a Roselia, it learns Giga Drain at Level 25. However, you must wait until Roselia is level 46 to get Synthesis. Aromatherapy can be useful for cleansing your team of status. Sadly, you must bred for Sleep Powder. Grass Whistle is an alternative but highly unreliable. Natural Cure is a great ability to have when combined with Rest. Weather Ball can be taught via Move Tutor as Roserade and when used in conjunction with Ninetails it is deadly. However, Happiness can be very annoying to raise. Roserade is a Pokemon that doesn't use up many potions, can hit hard, and support your team. All in all, I think Roserade deserves a High B. If you take the time to let Roselia learn its best moves, then it is top-tier (A) for sure.

Edited May 19, 2015 by ShadowStar77