Lando-I Suspect Test Opinions

[Darvan Korematsu]

So this one wasn't as well broadcasted as the Aegislash unban, but if you haven't heard, Landorus-Incarnate (the genie form) is getting suspect tested for a ban to Ubers.

The primary reasons for it's ban are a good speed, good typing, and LOTS of tech options in Rock Polish and Calm Mind and MANY coverage moves. All these though pale in comparison to it's ability Sheer Force giving a 30% boost to pretty much every move it can learn, PLUS Life Orb recoil not activating, giving it a monsterous 1.6x power on most of it's hits, even off no STAB.

This guy pretty much is in the same boat Greninja was in when it got banned.

This guy isn't even as common as Lando-T (the cat-looking Lando), but Smogoj believes this guy is ban-worthy, because the only real counter so far is Latias-Mega.

So what's y'alls opinion on the land genie? After the Aegislash vote to stay banned, I think this guy needs a kick to the curb. If Aegis got unbanned, I think this guy would be ok.

I say it will get BANNED.

[heloo5t5]

Nah it wont

Because I don't want it to.

Agreed, it is a powerhouse, but see there are other counters to it. Assault vest goodra for example. Pokemon that wall it are magnet rise klefki , levitate bronzong, uxie and a few others.

Running ice shard on donphan is good too. and donphan has sturdy.

So DEAL WID IT. And hey no ones stopiing you from using it too.

[Tomas Elliot]

As personal policy, I make it a point to stay away from suspect discussions, because I know the kind of drama could be stirred if I were to speak my mind in regards to Smogon suspect policy: however...

So DEAL WID IT. And hey no ones stopiing you from using it too.

This is so NOT an argument against a ban...

[Reignited'Light]

Just gonna point this out, just because a Pokemon has counters, does not mean it is not broken. Greninja has its counters, specific to its set. Same thing vice versa, if a person does not have any counters, that doesn't make it broken either. Kyurem-Black, is a powerhouse that can crush everything on the switch, but it is slow without a choice scarf, lackluster coverage, bad typing.

Now for my opinion on Landorus-I...

It has a wide movepool. There is nothing that can switch into Landorus, other than the mentioned Mega Latias and Cresselia, the latter being unreliable with poor recovery, while the former takes up a Mega Slot for it to be a counter. One can argue that Zapdos, specially defensive Talonflame, or Latias can "counter" Landorus, but they have been known to carry Rock Slide for special defensive flying types, and Knock Off for Latias/Latios. It adapts to the metagame, just like Greninja does. It can be played around just like every other pokemon, but it is too unhealthy for the metagame. Ban

[heloo5t5]

ok ok jeez just making my point

[Guzam]

Does sash Mamoswine not count? I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Here have some calcs!

252 Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 288-340 (90.2 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

This is sash btw

4- SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 300-356 (94 - 111.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock Scarf TTar :]

0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 332-392 (104 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Rotom-W: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 272-324 (85.2 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 140-166 (31.5 - 37.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

192+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 290-344 (90.9 - 107.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 88 HP / 24 SpD Gyarados: 148-175 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery This is a weird gyara spread, but anything to beat Lando :V

-1 0 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Rock Slide vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 179-213 (50.7 - 60.3%) -- 86.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery However if you don't run defense on Gyara this happens :[

252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 279-328 (87.4 - 102.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 147-174 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 348-412 (109 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Milotic: 165-196 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Those are all the mons I can think of right now...

Also keep in mind that a lot of these calcs are assuming you got the switch in or that you are about to revenge kill

[Reignited'Light]

Not trying to bash, but you just listed some super effective hits. Those are some great checks, but you're assuming Mamoswine will always have its sash. Plus, it's not garunteed to OHKO without Stealth Rock. You can argue back saying that you can play around it and Defog, but if you have to play around a threat to bring in your check or "counter", than it's unhealthy for OU.

There are also many variants of Landorus, like Calm Mind and Rock Polish; not just knock off. Calm Mind beats Rotom-W, which typically run a physical defensive soread instead of a special defensive one.

[Guzam]

I just play how I see fit. If something needs to die or something needs to happen for me to win, it's going to happen unless my opponent can stop me. Not too mention a lot of things outspeed lando-I and if it needs rock polish, that's a move slot used up and one pokemon can now shine at this point. Lando-I is kind of suffering from Greninja and Aegi syndrome where it could have multiple sets each threatening in their own way. I personally think it shouldn't be banned, but that's just me. If it does get banned, mega metagross will probably get banned seeing as there isn't something like lando-I to keep it in line.

[Vlado Vladimir]

It's powerful, and it has no switch-ins, seriously, it has THE movepool to wreck everything... Earth Power, Sludge Wave, Psychic, Focus Blast with Sheer Force boost and no recoil taken from Life Orb. Knock Off and Superpower for the Fatty piece of sh*t and Rock Slide for the Zard Y and take Talons if they switch in, and obviously you can count with the almighty HP Ice for your moveset.

The thing is... it is not that fast, even if it set ups (It has powerful stuff, Rock Polish and Calm Mind) that will cost a moveslot, and you can definetly play around it.

It's a little bit overcentralizing, but it gets revenge killed easily. Ice Shard (Mamoswine, Weavile) is an Ohko 100% of the time, Aqua Jet is an OHko after Rocks I think (Azumarril, Feraligatr, Shaerpedo, Crawdaunt), and Banded Brave Bird kills after rocks if I'm not mistaken and Bullet Punch from Scizor is a 2hko (Landorus EarthPower kills if no Hp Investment on Scizor ): )

I think it should stay. Not that fast and easily revenge killed.

[NickCrash]

Lando-I has 3 main sets actually

One has the standard EarthPower, Psychic, Knock off, and a filler move of your choice for which you can choose HP-ice, Focus Blast or Sludge Wave. Rock Slide is an option I see so rarely I don't think it's worth mentioning.

The second set has 3 offensive moves and a Calm Mind, which could mean probably having leftovers as the item.

The third is the Rock Polish. I believe this is the most threatening set, as it bypasses the speed check, outspeeding almost all scarfers on the meta, which means that in terms of speed control it can only be dealt with Talonflame.

In general it is a great pokemon that has multiple uses as a special attacker with utility moves. Several pokemon can work as checks, but the problem is that Landorus-I works so well as a late game sweeper that it can be virtually unstoppable.

A counter I can quickly think of is M-Scizor, if specially invested (probably a check, I don't have time now for calcs), and that's due to Lando's poor defenses.

Need to play the suspect test for more data and to make sure. Right now, I'm not having too much difficulty with it, and I have used it only in one team, which didn't prove to be a very good one, so I don't have a problem with it staying.

edit: Damn Vlado for ninja