[DISCUSSION] Reborn Monotype Viability Rankings

[Revman]

Wonder why Trick Room is not relevant in Steel runs. I personally think you can't compare Metagross and Bronzong when their roles are entirely different.

I personally also have conflicting opinions on Gross given the wide competition of physical attacking Steels like Excadrill, Excavalier,Lucario and debatably Aggron that I planned to do later.

"Specially Defensive Special sweeper" says a lot of the degree of understanding you guys put on Bronzong. Ill admit TR isn't always needed depending on what you run, since some Steels can boost Speed, but you can run bulk on a TR team, which is why I put it S. Ill respect the lack of screens but the lack of SR and Toxic isn't super significant in game and you dont want to get too full on support.

Specially Defensive Special sweeper wasn't what I personally called it lol, but I've used Bronzong a fair bit in competitive and without Screens/Rocks/Status it's basically a big floating blob even when you've got Gyro Ball which arguably is its only viable attack unless you wanna use Calm Mind Psychic, which is probably not the best of ideas considering its mediocre special attack and impossible due to there not being the TMs for it yet. Trick Room of course has its merits on a type as slow and bulky as Steel, but I don't think that alone is enough for it to go S. If we wanna get super technical, S states that a Pokemon has little to no draw backs, and I'd call its lack of utility based moves that compliment its stats a pretty decent draw back. Considering that in game isn't a competitive Meta, imo offensive coverage and damage is a lot more important than defensive utility not to understate how useful it can be though. Not calling Bronzong bad, but it's not S material.

[Noir]

Specially Defensive Special sweeper wasn't what I personally called it lol, but I've used Bronzong a fair bit in competitive and without Screens/Rocks/Status it's basically a big floating blob even when you've got Gyro Ball which arguably is its only viable attack unless you wanna use Calm Mind Psychic, which is probably not the best of ideas considering its mediocre special attack and impossible due to there not being the TMs for it yet. Trick Room of course has its merits on a type as slow and bulky as Steel, but I don't think that alone is enough for it to go S. If we wanna get super technical, S states that a Pokemon has little to no draw backs, and I'd call its lack of utility based moves that compliment its stats a pretty decent draw back. Considering that in game isn't a competitive Meta, imo offensive coverage and damage is a lot more important than defensive utility not to understate how useful it can be though. Not calling Bronzong bad, but it's not S material.

Fair enough, but the only other defensive/support utility Pokemon that we actually can get and are as useful is perhaps Forretress, although event Ferrothorn will come out eventually through tournaments. I stand by how Bronzong is important as it's probably the best thing you can use as a defensive pivot depending on your team configuration, since again, it allows Steels to invest in bulk over Speed investment, and the fact that it really helps stuff like Excavalier, Steelix, and Hammer Arm Metagross. Nothing else can use TR unless you're building a team entirely around Speed relative things.

That said, though, where would you want to put Forretress and the myriad of offensive Steel type Pokemon I listed in the previous post? The competition means that all but Excadrill or Lucario perhaps (due to their ability to damage opposing Steels, and in Excadrill's case Electric as well) will probably have to be discussed before I put the rankings on.

I'd personally like to discuss with you on the guide in general if you'd like. From the beginning I partook in this I did say conflict will be inevitable although, of course, I'll keep it civil. We could do it through PM or on Showdown sometimes, depending on whether or not you consent to this.

[Revman]

Fair enough, but the only other defensive/support utility Pokemon that we actually can get and are as useful is perhaps Forretress, although event Ferrothorn will come out eventually through tournaments. I stand by how Bronzong is important as it's probably the best thing you can use as a defensive pivot depending on your team configuration, since again, it allows Steels to invest in bulk over Speed investment, and the fact that it really helps stuff like Excavalier, Steelix, and Hammer Arm Metagross. Nothing else can use TR unless you're building a team entirely around Speed relative things.

That said, though, where would you want to put Forretress and the myriad of offensive Steel type Pokemon I listed in the previous post? The competition means that all but Excadrill or Lucario perhaps (due to their ability to damage opposing Steels, and in Excadrill's case Electric as well) will probably have to be discussed before I put the rankings on.

I'd personally like to discuss with you on the guide in general if you'd like. From the beginning I partook in this I did say conflict will be inevitable although, of course, I'll keep it civil. We could do it through PM or on Showdown sometimes, depending on whether or not you consent to this.

Hm. For the sole purpose of it being the best defensive pivot due to its stats and abilities, I'll give it S then. I do however still think that Offense is more needed than Defense in game. I had a bit of time to think about it and with the lack of Skarmory it's the best Ground pivot Steel has access to, despite the fact that it might not be able to do much in return. Since Episode 16 has the potential of releasing online play I may change my view on the whole Offense over Bulk thing since bulk is absolutely necessary when versing other players and Pokemon isn't as much of a mental game of strategy versus a computer when it comes to stuff like move prediction, switching etc.

If I had to rank Foretress on Steel I'd probably give it B due to its typing; I've got experience using it with Bug and the thing about Foretress is even with Spikes support and a 140 defense stat, it usually just gets 2-3hko'd without returning as much as a layer of spikes or a Bug Bite/Gyro Ball and this if for a type that's mostly weak to Flying. Whilst defensive utility is great, it doesn't mean much if the Pokemon in question is KO'd without as much as scratching what it's up against.

As for talking in a medium outside of this thread, yeah I don't see why not. Thing is though that it seems our Timezones are polar opposite really so that may be the tiniest bit difficult.

[Noir]

Thanks. To my information Australia's about two hours in the future from where I come from, so I doubt it's really polar; of course, we'll discuss that in PM or something.

Since I'm free from work for some time I'll polish up the Poison Rankings before I move on to the rest. Not to sound rude or be a grammar nazi, but also try and notice a few rankings for things like inappropriately placed spoilers, missing letters/punctuation like the missing V on Venusaur, and the like. Not too significant, but it can help avoid the minor eyesore.

One more thing I'd like to note about Poison is the availability of Venoshock; correct me if I'm wrong about the legitimacy of it being available, but I think I stumbled upon it in the Bysbysion Wasteland. Venoshock in tandem with Toxic Spikes support can prove to be a decently potent combo, although it's probably better off used by things that lack a Poison STAB and are Special, such as Venusaur/Amoongus and the like. Include it on what doesn't have a Poison STAB, I guess.

Put the Venusaur and Roserade rankings from Grass into S for Poison, unless you'd rather I make an alternative one. I'll probably just make another one (see below). With a typing that provides a neutrality in addition to being super effective to one of the more problematic types on Poison runs -- being Ground -- they merit a spot to deal with these Pokemon, specifically Venusaur and its potent bulk, although Roserade also provides nice things to the run as well.

There are options missing and changes that need to be precedented, such as Shadow Ball on Nidoqueen/Nidoking, which is no longer available. Icy Wind is an option for the two of them as a temporary replacement over Ice Beam, obtainable through the available move tutors (which some things here are missing too) benefitting from Sheer Force. Ice is going to prove important (against the two big bad Garchomps) as the game progresses. Nidoqueen will have to opt for Crunch to hit Ghost types with, or if you've evolved it earlier than the obtainable level, Shadow Claw. Head Smash and Iron Tail are also notable moves for Nidoking to use, depending on whether or not you want to put them there. Bulldoze is also a considerable option on the two of them, I guess, particularly Nidoking because while it's better with Special Attacks has the ability to hit from both spectrums.

Drapion has access to Brick Break and Bulldoze as options to combat Steels, competing with Fire Fang.

Venomoth can utilize Hidden Power Fire/Ground/Fighting/Rock if obtainable; while Tinted Lens helps with the damage, you'll generally appreciate the coverage nonetheless,moreso useful on sets that don't run TL. Venomoth also gets Baton Pass and Giga Drain through breeding, the former being pretty nice since you can provide your teammates with yummy Quiver Dance boosts.

Muk can Explode too. I suppose some people aren't that fond of it, but it's an option.

Crobat has potency for a Special Attacking set with Nasty Plot (from Honchkrow) and unlike its physical counterpart can damage Steel types with a Hidden Power of choice, particularly Fire/Fighting/Ground. You rely on Venoshock and Air Slash as STAB moves, in additon to Dark Pulse for extra coverage. Zen Headbutt is another option you can run on physical sets, although you can't run both Brave Bird and Zen Headbutt on the same set.

Weezing gets Flamethrower, which is important for it to take down Steels; Dark Pulse is also effective against Ghost types.

Vileplume benefits from HP Fire/Ground/Ice/Rock, too. That and status such as Sleep Powder, Stun Spore and Aromatherapy support are also meritable options.

Arbok has a lot of missing options there; Iron Tail, Fire Fang, Thunder Fang, Ice Fang, Sucker Punch, Bulldoze and Rock Tomb. I'd shove it onto B, but I'll let you decide.

I'll probably rewrite the rest from here; hope I don't exceed the limit though.

Let's start:

Venusaur

Ranking: S

Ability: Overgrow/Chlorophyll

Moves: Giga Drain, Venoshock, Sleep Powder, Leaf Storm, Hidden Power Fire/Ice/Rock/Ground, Power Whip, Curse, Grassy Terrain, Nature Power, Seed Bomb, Growth, Bulldoze, Petal Blizzard, Petal Dance, Leech Seed, Synthesis.

Venusaur is a great Pokemon in general and has a good balance of both offensive and defensive capabilities. With it's partial Grass typing, it acts as a pre-requisite for Poison-monos attempting to deal with Ground types effectively. Venusaur has the ability to run both Specially offensive and Physically offensive attacking sets with it's wide range of Grass moves, and Growth/Curse to bolster it's stats for more damage or defense. On the utility side, Venusaur has access to the rare Sleep on Poison-runs as well as Leech Seed that gives it great sustain and longevity, in addition to reliable recovery in Synthesis and Giga Drain. Venusaur can also assist the team in setting up Grassy Terrain alongside Sludge Wave from another teammate to create a Corrosive Field that provides Venusaur and the team with abusable benefits, such as additional Poison typing on its Grass STAB and doubled damage on Venoshock. Overgrow is generally the superior ability since Poison monos aren't sun-inclined, but Chlorophyll can be viable nonetheless if you find a teammate with Sunny Day. For all these capabilities Venusaur offers, it's a non-negligible choice for Poison runs.

Roserade

Ranking: S

Ability: Technician/Natural Cure

Moves: Giga Drain, Venoshock,Hidden Power Fire/Ground/Rock/Fighting, Petal Blizzard, Leaf Storm, Sleep Powder, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Aromatherapy, Weather Ball, Extrasensory, Synthesis. Petal Dance, Leech Seed, Magical Leaf, Grassy Terrain.

Like Venusaur, Roserade has a lot of tools and abilities beneficial to Poison runs. Particularly, Roserade is slightly faster and significantly higher Special Attack and Technician to further bolster its attacks, particularly Magical Leaf and Hidden Power as for traits it has over Venusaur. Roserade also has acess to Aromatherapy and both variants of Spikes as a niche, and like Venusaur also has access to Grassy Terrain and the utility from Leech Seed and Sleep Powder to utilize. You won't need both Grass types on one run, but Roserade has the advantage of being significantly more powerful on the special side and with the ability to set up Spikes.

Victreebel

Ranking: B

Ability: Chlorophyll

Moves: Leaf Blade, Giga Drain, Leaf Storm, Venoshock, Power Whip, Knock Off, Growth, Bullet Seed, Natural Gift, Acid Spray, Sleep Powder, Weather Ball, Nature Power, Hidden Power Fire/Ice/Ground/Rock.

Victreebel is, in short words, outclassed by both Venusaur and Roserade on both spectrums, although Victreebel has a wider movepool consisting of Knock Off and Natural Gift that is more reliable than Nature Power. In that sense, teams looking for a more physically orientated Grass/Poison type Pokemon can opt for Victreebel. Victreebel's frailty means it is also heavily reliant on sun support which is something Poison monos cannot consistently offer, making it a fragile, but slow, glass cannon.

Scolipede

Ranking: B

Ability: Speed Boost

Moves: Baton Pass, Iron Defense, Protect, Toxic, Megahorn, Pin Missile, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Double-Edge, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Endeavor.

Scolipede is actually a must have for every team since it can help you Rock Climb for important items. Jokes aside, with the inherent lack of usable attack moves and Swords Dance, Scolipede can only transist to become a defensive supporter with the ability to Baton Pass Speed boost and set up Toxic Spikes or Spikes. These traits make it a coveted Pokemon competitively but sadly this isn't as relevant enough to prove significant for a higher ranking especially with the limited options it has, particularly the very essential Swords Dance. As a natural possessor of both Protect and Toxic, Toxic stall is another option while it racks up passive Speed boosts to provide to allies. Scolipede does have a fairly devastating tool in the form of STAB Megahorn, though, which acts as a very powerful tool against opposing Psychic types. Using Scolipede generally weighs the team down with unwanted weaknesses on the special side and it is generally outclassed by other Pokemon in their roles apart from its ability to Baton Pass Speed boost and the offensive pressure it provides to Psychic types. Granted, Scolipede's niche is something no other Pokemon can effectively fulfill, but it won't prove as significant until online competitive Reborn battling or Swords Dance shows up.

Tentacruel

Ranking: B

Ability: Clear Body/Liquid Ooze/Rain Dish

Moves: Surf, Sludge Wave, Hydro Pump, Waterfall, Poison Jab, Mirror Coat, Knock Off, Venoshock, Hidden Power Grass/Electric/Ice, Toxic Spikes, Brine.

Tentacruel has a unique typing and stat distribution. Tentacruel's Water typing means it's one of the Poison-types that possess effective countermeasure against Ground types, which alone can give merit. Tentacruel can play as an offensive, fast sweeper or a defensive tank as it's stats allow it to do so depending on what is preferable. With STAB on both spectrums as well as niche moves in Knock Off and Mirror Coat, Tentacruel generally contributes signaturely in it's special defending prowess and high speed. At the end of the day, though, Tentacruel's offenses are fairly lackluster especially without Swords Dance, and Rapid Spin's significance is mediocre at best in-game. As such, Tentacruel has it's merits, but a jack-of-all-trades, master of none, and as such from every spectrum (with the exception of Mirror Coat and a Water STAB as niches) is outclassed by most things in their roles.

Ariados

Ranking: C

Ability: Swarm/Sniper

Moves: Poison Jab, Cross Poison, Megahorn, Sucker Punch, Night Slash, Shadow Sneak, Sticky Web, Agility, Baton Pass, Toxic Spikes, Bounce, Pin Missile, Bug Bite, Fell Stinger.

It's safe to say that Ariados has one of the more odd niches on a Poison run -- Sticky Web. One of five Bug/Poison types available on a Poison run, Ariados is the only user of the move, and Sticky Web can prove effective on the later parts of the game. Ariados shouldn't be something you should be training up until you've beaten Aya and are inclined to do the work for it, since Ariados is bad as an early game start and should only be trained separately once you can actually effectively train it. That aside, Ariados does have a couple of tools it can use, having a slightly better physical movepool than Scolipede than includes priority as well as the ability to abuse Sniper. Baton Passing and Toxic Spikes support are better done by other things, though. Ariados, unfortunately, is more flawed than gifted as its low speed and lackluster stats make it hard pressed to effectively do anything.

It

Seviper

Ranking: B/C

Ability: Infiltrator/Shed Skin

Moves: Sludge Wave, Flamethrower, Coil, Poison Jab, Hidden Power Ice/Ground/Water, Crunch, Iron Tail, Bulldoze, Dark Pulse, Venoshock, Glare.

Unlike its serpentine counterpart Arbok, Seviper can run both a special offensive and physically offensive set. Seviper is one of the few Poison types with access to Flamethrower, which is a decent tool in warding off Steel types. Its Coil set is generally inferior to Arbok's, however, and its low Speed and lackluster defenses despite good offense means it's hard pressed to do much of anything, whereas Arbok has a slightly more comfortable speed and Intimidate to make up for it slightly.

Dustox

Ranking: C

Ability: Shield Dust

Moves: Venoshock, Bug Buzz, Light Screen, Quiver Dance, Hidden Power Fire/Ice/Rock/Ground, Protect, Toxic, Moonlight, Venoshock, Electroweb.

Dustox would have been banished to the ever lower depths if it weren't for the niche of it being capable of setting up Light Screen and having reliable recovery to complement Toxic Stall. In such a case, Dustox's Light Screen support and Toxic Stall capabilities can be effective under the right circumstances, and it has Quiver Dance to help slightly with its stat issues. Dustox's stats are a general letdown, however, and this prohibits it from doing its job effectively.

Beedrill

Ranking: D

Ability: Swarm/Sniper

Moves: Toxic Spikes, Poison Jab, Agility, Pin Missile, Endeavor, Fell Stinger, Assurance, Brick Break, Acrobatics.

Beedrill is generally a bad Pokemon until it gets it's Mega. It struggles heavily to carve any notable niche for itself; additional coverage moves in Brick Break and Acrobatics as well as a reliable Poison STAB in Poison Jab won't differentiate it too positively from Scolipede or anything else, even with Fell Stinger. Its Bug typing just means it gives an extra unneeded weakness, nor are its stats appealing enough. Until it gets X-Scissor, Swords Dance, and a Mega, the insect will probably be doomed in the lower rankings, unloved and unused.

Swalot

Ranking: D

Ability: Liquid Ooze/Sticky Hold

Moves: Sludge Wave, Sludge Bomb, Gunk Shot, Venoshock, Hidden Power Fire/Ground/Fighting, Curse, Pain Split, Destiny Bond, Encore, Amnesia, Yawn.

Swalot is, in every way, an inferior Muk. Worse so you get Grimer earlier than you can get Gulpin anyway. It's movepool is inferior apart from the niche Pain Split, which is ineffective, Encore, or Acid Armor/Amnesia, all of which aren't really that viable in-game over competitive use. The only things it can do are provide Encore or Sleep support, and even then it doesn't do so that reliably. Whatever you do, use Muk over this thing.

Aaand that concludes everything from Poison. I'll work on more of this soon.

Edited July 15, 2015 by YagamiNoir4896

[BIGJRA]

Since I doubt objecting to having one guy re-write the entire guide to a competitive team building level will actually do anything, remember to factor in a few really important things: availability and credibility in specific fights in game.

[Restal]

I'm not sure if Hippowdon has been covered or not yet, but I can add some input.

Pokemon: Hippowdon

Ability: Sand Stream

Moves: Elemental Fangs (Meh, but still decent), Slack Off (Breed with Slakoth), Crunch (Level Up), Earthquake (Level Up), and Fissure if you can't get by someone and are willing to soft reset.

Item (If applicable): Smooth Rock

Why: Hippowdon is very important for ground type teams if applicable for many reasons. First of all, the sand has nice residual damage that synergizes well with Hippos bulk and slack off (if bred). Second of all, one of the nastiest leaders is noel. Many have problems with that clefable, and if one has access to that drilbur egg ( I sure as hell wish I did ), then Noel gets absolutely demolished. If Hippo had access to the Toxic TM then he could toxic stall through teams easily, but unfortunatly I don't think that is possible. Hippowdon is also one of the exclusive weather starters for monotype teams.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Restal

[pyrromanis]

Moves: Elemental Punches (Meh, but still decent), Slack Off (Breed with Monferno), Crunch (Level Up), Earthquake (Level Up), and Fissure if you can't get by someone and are willing to soft reset.

I assume you meant elemental fangs and not punches (a punching hippo would have been awesome though!)

Slack Off can't be bred from Monferno since we are talking about monoruns and 99% of the time it won't be Chimchar! Thankfully Slakoth can be used for that purpose!

Since I doubt objecting to having one guy re-write the entire guide to a competitive team building level will actually do anything, remember to factor in a few really important things: availability and credibility in specific fights in game.

I have to agrre with this! It should be considered when the pokemon becomes available and if it is usefull for a long run or it's situational in key battles!

For example the godsent Slugma for monorock right before Florinia should be considered a high rank since A.) it's your only hope against the f*cking grasshole in all your battles B.) early Shell Smash right when evolves is game breaking and has helped me to achieve many 6-0s! But around mid game it falls behind as it needs at least 2 SS to outspeed anything and seems to be getting one or two shoted easily!

[nsbwinner2]

Rankings from a man with a heart of Steel:

Bronzong

Ranking: S

Ability: Levitate/Heatproof

Moves: Trick Room, Gyro Ball, Extrasensory, Explosion, Payback, Rain Dance, Sandstorm, Bulldoze, Hidden Power Fire/Ground, Grass Knot, Signal Beam.

Bronzong is the backbone of every serious Steel mono run that should always be considered, if not always used. What makes it so efficient is its mixed versatility that gives it decent offensive presence, including a nifty Psychic STAB against Fighting types, and fantastic support and defensive capabilities. It's one of the rare Steels with Levitate, which is an essential free and yummy immunity to Ground-type moves, occasional field damage, and the like, and can also opt for Heatproof if you have concerns against the ever-dominant Fire leader Charlotte. Apart from that, Bronzong is the only Steel with access to the very useful Trick Room that allows it to support the very common slower variety of Steel types in the run. Apart from that, it can provide weather support in Rain Dance for teams consisting of Empoleon and covering Fire weaknesses, or Sandstorm for teams with Rock/Steels and Excadrill. It can act as an offensive suicide lead with Trick Room and or weather support and it can also stick around as a defensive pivot and tank with its decent coverage all around. The closest things to flaws are additional weaknesses to Ghost and Dark types, which can be patched up by other teammates and doesn't hinder it from being a giant piece of support to the team.

I've always been a bronzong fan in reborn, it's really tanky, has a good typing, and also has good offensive capabilities. I love to spam swagger (which isn't on this list), take a hit, and watch the enemy's pokemon KO themselves from their confusion!

[Restal]

I assume you meant elemental fangs and not punches (a punching hippo would have been awesome though!)

Slack Off can't be bred from Monferno since we are talking about monoruns and 99% of the time it won't be Chimchar! Thankfully Slakoth can be used for that purpose!

Thanks a lot!

As being new to the forums (as of a couple days ago), I need quite a bit of guidance at the beginning.

If you could help my thread it would be appreciated: http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16232#entry374938

Thanks anyways if you can't~

[Revman]

Thanks. To my information Australia's about two hours in the future from where I come from, so I doubt it's really polar; of course, we'll discuss that in PM or something.

Since I'm free from work for some time I'll polish up the Poison Rankings before I move on to the rest. Not to sound rude or be a grammar nazi, but also try and notice a few rankings for things like inappropriately placed spoilers, missing letters/punctuation like the missing V on Venusaur, and the like. Not too significant, but it can help avoid the minor eyesore.

I have noticed the broken spoiler tags, I've rewritten some of the broken tags at least 10 times and they remain broken despite it looking fine; I'll try again though. Edit: Success! Finally, that's been annoying me SO much. (Stemmed from a bunch of weird linebreaks/spaces in Crawdaunt's tag.)

I'll go check for any grammatical mistakes now.

Oh also, with Arbok I used it before Ep 14 came out which is why I hadn't factored in Bulldoze/Rock Tomb. Also, I wanna add to Tentacruel's thing that it gets Acid Spray which is an incredible move with amazing wall breaking potential, I do heaps of competitive Monotype and Acid Spray Tentacruel is incredible. I reckon if it had Scald/Acid Spray it could be a serious contender for A-Rank due to it breaking and burning walls/bulky attackers. Also in future could you add whether a move is an Egg move or tutor move? It could probably save people a bit of time/disappointment if they don't want to breed or don't go shard hunting for tutors after they find out themselves.

Since I doubt objecting to having one guy re-write the entire guide to a competitive team building level will actually do anything, remember to factor in a few really important things: availability and credibility in specific fights in game.

Yeah that's what I've been doing so far, which is why Kricketune is B for Bug it's a pretty neat Pokemon until Bug gets literally any other Physical Attacker. I'll probably update the description for B rank to include something along the lines of "...can be highly useful if not invaluable in certain fights in the game"

I've done a bit of thinking, and I think I'm not gonna rank Pokemon based on how well they do on Pokemon Reborn's multiplayer system when it's implemented. Smogon University already have an incredible competitive Monotype ranking thread which far surpasses my knowledge on Monotype and goes far more indepth into the Monotype Metagame than this thread does, I originally just meant this to be helpful for people playing Mono in game and I reckon that's the way it should stay.

Rank edits:

Hippowdon to S 'cos sand amirite (Stuff like Sand Rush Excadrill is amazing, also helps break sashes/residual damage/prevents hostile weather etc)

(Ground) Camerupt to B from S (what was i thinking tho) Massive 4x weakness and Nidoking can handle Grass types better with STAB Sludge Wave/Flamethrower and isn't as slow.

(Ground) Torterra to B from S (again man jeez) Ice decimates it and doesn't exactly offer an amazing niche in return; also pretty much perfectly fits B's description of having flaws and being slightly problematic whilst still being good. (handling water types)

Meowstic-Female to C since there are better Competitive users like Gothitelle in Trick Room and its Mediocre bulk/special attack don't make it B material despite it having a pretty good speed stat.

[Zane0144]

I would like to suggest beautifly be moved to c rank. While I loved the review, it really does seem like a niche Pokemon and I can't really see it ever being used long enough to even learn quiver dance and bug buzz due to its fragileness. It is more of a niche.

Especially when you have access to great stuff like vivillion. Which out classes it in every way practically

Edited July 16, 2015 by Zane0144

[Revman]

I would like to suggest beautifly be moved to c rank. While I loved the review, it really does seem like a niche Pokemon and I can't really see it ever being used long enough to even learn quiver dance and bug buzz due to its fragileness. It is more of a niche.

Especially when you have access to great stuff like vivillion. Which out classes it in every way practically

Would normally agree, but Beautifly's niche is that it's the best Quiver Dancer/Flying STAB user that Bug gets until Vivillon learns Hurricane. B's rank states that it can be incredibly useful for a particular part of the game, and Beautifly's niche is that it's a great Special Attacker that gains access to relatively strong moves such as Air Slash, Bug Buzz and Giga Drain really early. I wouldn't believe me unless I'd used it myself, I guess you'll have to trust me on it because it saved my behind more than once.

Edit: Also it swept right on past Shelly, Florinia (not that that's a big feat) and did a number on 2-3 of Shade's Pokemon which is a tough leader for Bug considering he resists your STAB. Also, it learns Quiver at 40 and Bug Buzz at 35. Entire point of using Beautifly as I stated is that it's an early bloomer and will give you early access to good moves. (Also Air Cutter is soooo good until you get Hurricane Vivillon oh my lord, it's good to have a Bug that early on with a decently powered secondary stab)

Edit again: However if enough people think that it's more deserving of C, I can move it.

Rank changes:

(Normal) Diggersby from A to S; only good Pokemon Normal has access to that can reliably break Rock and Steel type Pokemon and overall acts as a great wrecking ball and wall breaker.

[ArthurZH]

Some improvement on my analyses!

Simipour add on:

Simipour doesn't have too much going on for him, but he has one thing that most Water types don't: level up learning of Scald and Acrobatics. By abusing this, one can get the Scald burn off in many circumstances which another Pokemon have failed to land a KO. Scald is also exceptionally useful against Cal and Charlotte if you manage to set up Rain Dance, as Scald is boosted by the field, the rain and straight up murders the Pokemon while laughing in their faces. Acrobatics too is useful.....[refer guide, no changes made]

Note: I only used Simipour against Cal, since I really CBF going all the way back to train my Simipour for Charlotte. Would like to know if it's really useful against Charlotte. However, I am proud to say little simipour swept Cal 6-0 without taking damage or using more than 6 Scalds. It was a really good day.

Swanna add on:

......as well as assist you greatly against Fern. Brave Bird is another option to consider on this Pokemon, as it is slightly stronger and has no need for reliance on rain, albeit having the recoil which hurts a little. Rain Dance also.....

Note: I rarely use Hurricane because I consider it a 2-turn move, first move requiring me to set Rain up, secondly to use Hurricane. Typically, Swanna doesn't last THAT long, especially considering that it's speed isn't really really good enough. This means against stronger mons, Swanna has to tank 2 hits to use Hurricane, but only one hit for Brave Bird.

[Revman]

Some improvement on my analyses!

Simipour add on:

Simipour doesn't have too much going on for him, but he has one thing that most Water types don't: level up learning of Scald and Acrobatics. By abusing this, one can get the Scald burn off in many circumstances which another Pokemon have failed to land a KO. Scald is also exceptionally useful against Cal and Charlotte if you manage to set up Rain Dance, as Scald is boosted by the field, the rain and straight up murders the Pokemon while laughing in their faces. Acrobatics too is useful.....[refer guide, no changes made]

Note: I only used Simipour against Cal, since I really CBF going all the way back to train my Simipour for Charlotte. Would like to know if it's really useful against Charlotte. However, I am proud to say little simipour swept Cal 6-0 without taking damage or using more than 6 Scalds. It was a really good day.

Swanna add on:

......as well as assist you greatly against Fern. Brave Bird is another option to consider on this Pokemon, as it is slightly stronger and has no need for reliance on rain, albeit having the recoil which hurts a little. Rain Dance also.....

Note: I rarely use Hurricane because I consider it a 2-turn move, first move requiring me to set Rain up, secondly to use Hurricane. Typically, Swanna doesn't last THAT long, especially considering that it's speed isn't really really good enough. This means against stronger mons, Swanna has to tank 2 hits to use Hurricane, but only one hit for Brave Bird.

Thank you very much, very much appreciated as always!

I added some analyses of my own as well and will probably be doing a few more sometime later this week (rip school major work)

Normal: Blissey, Snorlax

Fire: Infernape

Rank changes:

(Grass) Ludicolo from A to S: Best Rain Dance setter/user Grass has available and can be used as a win condition against tough Fire users such as Cal and Charlotte.

[pyrromanis]

I'm currently doing a rock monorun and I'm locked in Circus before Samson. Probably in the next week I can do a bunch of analyses when I finish E15! My only question is can I make an analysis for Tyranitar? I hacked a Larvitar for my starter since there are only a few rock types early, but if you think it should not been done it's fine

[Revman]

I'm currently doing a rock monorun and I'm locked in Circus before Samson. Probably in the next week I can do a bunch of analyses when I finish E15! My only question is can I make an analysis for Tyranitar? I hacked a Larvitar for my starter since there are only a few rock types early, but if you think it should not been done it's fine

Hmm. I think it's a bit useless if it's not obtainable for anyone else at any point in the game. But we do have some for Abomasnow/Walrein that were injected as starters since Ice got nothing until 3rd gym, so why not I guess but only for types that have nothing.

[SkyRunner]

I'm kind of behind on my Psychic monorun, but here are a few rankings.

Psychic-type

Unown

Rank: E

Ability: Levitate

Moves: Hidden Power

Why: It only learns one move. Hidden Power isn't even strong, with its base power and type depending entirely on the Unown. Its appalling stats don't help it either. Never use this Pokemon.

Mr. Mime

Rank: D

Ability: Soundproof

Moves: Double Slap, Encore, Psybeam, Light Screen, Reflect, Substitute

Why: Although Mr. Mime's the first Psychic/Fairy type you get, don't expect it to help you against Dark-types, learning no Fairy-type moves via level-up. Don't let its 120 base Special Defense fool you either. With a 40 base HP stat, it tanks hits really badly. By the time that you get it, Mr. Mime is simply outclassed by other Psychic-types available.

Malamar

Rank: A+ or S-

Ability: Contrary

Moves: Night Slash, Psycho Cut, Superpower, Pluck/Hypnosis/Destiny Bond (egg move)

Why: The first three moves are a must. Psycho Cut and Night Slash are its two best STABs. Alongside the Ability Contrary, Superpower Malamar provides coverage against Dark-types and gets a nifty stat boost too. Pluck can be used during early game, when Sitrus Berries are still being used. Despite Hypnosis' low accuracy, it could be used for particularly annoying Pokemon, although Destiny Bond might work better for this. Malamar is a great Pokemon to use, and should never be passed up on a Psychic-type monorun.

[Revman]

Why: It only learns one move. Hidden Power isn't even strong, with its base power and type depending entirely on the Unown. Its appalling stats don't help it either. Never use this Pokemon.

All Hidden Power base powers in Gen 6 are 60, regardless of the IVs of each individual Pokemon, not that that makes a difference for Unown, just thought you might wanna know for future.

Mr. Mime

Rank: D

Ability: Soundproof

Moves: Double Slap, Encore, Psybeam, Light Screen, Reflect, Substitute

Why: Although Mr. Mime's the first Psychic/Fairy type you get, don't expect it to help you against Dark-types, learning no Fairy-type moves via level-up. Don't let its 120 base Special Defense fool you either. With a 40 base HP stat, it tanks hits really badly. By the time that you get it, Mr. Mime is simply outclassed by other Psychic-types available.

I kinda think that natural access to Sub/Screens could be handy. As well as being able to have Nasty Plot bred on to it, but since I've only used it once, I'll trust you and put it as D until I see an argument suggesting otherwise.

Also, ranked Malamar as S because of its great ability to handle Dark types and set up in the same turn, no other Psychic type available aside from Metagross (with a lucky meteor mash boost) can do that.

[SkyRunner]

All Hidden Power base powers in Gen 6 are 60, regardless of the IVs of each individual Pokemon, not that that makes a difference for Unown, just thought you might wanna know for future.

Whoops, sorry. Will remember in the future.

One more week, one more Psychic-type ranking.

Swoobat

Rank: B

Ability: Simple

Moves: Calm Mind, Air Slash, Psychic, Air Cutter, Heart Stamp

Why: For early-game, Swoobat is a brilliant Pokémon to use. With Simple Calm Mind and STABs Air Slash and Psychic, not much can withstand Swoobat. After Aya though, Swoobat begins to fall by the wayside. Its 67/55/55 bulk, if you can call it that, leads to Swoobat getting one or two-shotted by a good number of enemies. However, due to its early availability and strong early-game performance, I'd give Swoobat a B-rank.

[ArthurZH]

Poison thoughts:

Venusaur: S > A

Venusaur is outclassed by Roserade in all scenarios. Roserade even gets the superior Weather Ball with Sunny Day / Rain Dance, Water Sport to half fire moves, stronger attacks which also rejuvenate HP (Read: Growth/Giga Drain), Sleep Powder, etc. The pros of Venusaur is being a bulky Grassy Terrain setter, which imo, Vileplume despite being just slightly frailer than it does better with access to Moonblast (not sure why you'd need it, but it has it, while Venusaur's non STAB move spans to about......Double Edge). If anything that's unique to Venusaur it'll be Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Grassy Terrain stall. That's about it. I don't think this deserves S-Rank.

Water thoughts

Seismitoad: B > D

Earth Power on Seismitoad doesn't exist in Reborn. Earth Power tutor is nowhere. For this reason alone, Seismitoad is half useless, as it's literal other ground move is mud shot. Granted, it's good in some field effects, but it's outclassed, too niche (and even when niche, nerfed, see Aya's field) and too late in game to be considered useful.

New analyses might be coming, depending on how much I love Kabutops, Omastar, Carracosta etc mons, and also searching for Magikarp/Vaporeon. Not reserving them, just....may take a really long while, coz exams, life, etc.

[Another Felix]

Banette: D Rank.

It's too slow to really be a threat with anything other than Shadow Sneak, it has a very shallow movepool due to being mainly a physical attacker that learns very physical attacks, and it cannot take a hit, so using it as a setup or Wisp Pokemon doesn't really work. There really are only 2 reasons this thing should ever be on your team rather than in the box.

1. Banette has one of the very few Mega Stones in Reborn, but we can't even activate it, so that's a waste. Even so, it's still pretty lousy even when Mega Evolved.

2. It is the first Ghost type you can catch in game without hacking in a starter, and even then you don't get it until right before Corey. And right after Corey, you can get a Soul Candle in the Beryl Library to get a Pumpkaboo, and if you're lucky, you can get a Phantump from the mystery egg.

If you want a physically attacking Ghost that isn't awful, the Duskull line is available in Shade's gym, and Dusknoir, while mostly defensive, can pack a decent hit. And I'm pretty sure Golett is available somewhere, but not sure where, but it's still a better option.

[Revman]

Banette: D Rank.

It's too slow to really be a threat with anything other than Shadow Sneak, it has a very shallow movepool due to being mainly a physical attacker that learns very physical attacks, and it cannot take a hit, so using it as a setup or Wisp Pokemon doesn't really work. There really are only 2 reasons this thing should ever be on your team rather than in the box.

1. Banette has one of the very few Mega Stones in Reborn, but we can't even activate it, so that's a waste. Even so, it's still pretty lousy even when Mega Evolved.

2. It is the first Ghost type you can catch in game without hacking in a starter, and even then you don't get it until right before Corey. And right after Corey, you can get a Soul Candle in the Beryl Library to get a Pumpkaboo, and if you're lucky, you can get a Phantump from the mystery egg.

If you want a physically attacking Ghost that isn't awful, the Duskull line is available in Shade's gym, and Dusknoir, while mostly defensive, can pack a decent hit. And I'm pretty sure Golett is available somewhere, but not sure where, but it's still a better option.

I wasn't even aware Mega Stones were in Reborn even though we don't have a Mega Bracelet... But with Mega Evolution, Banette's Phys atk hits 165 which is incredible coupled with an average 75 but being able to Burn with Prankster Will O Wisp take your opponent with you with Prankster Destiny Bond is pretty great. Well I won't be counting Mega Evolution for these rankings until we get a Mega Bracelet anyway.

As for Dusclops being a better Physical attacker, Dusclops is 70 base attack, Dusknoir is 100 and Banette is 115. Although I agree that some of its best moves are Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak, I don't believe it deserves D since it has notable niche as a Physical attacker until Golurk is available and as a faster/stronger/less bulky alternative to Dusclops/noir as well as natural access to Knock off. I won't lie, Dusclops/noir is a better choice, but Banette isn't D tier. Imo the only Ghost that should be D or E even is Drifblim because I can't think of literally anything it can do that another Ghost can't do better or just anything it can do fullstop. Probably gonna give it C though, I'll draft up a moveset and a quick analysis for it.

Poison thoughts:

Venusaur: S > A

Venusaur is outclassed by Roserade in all scenarios. Roserade even gets the superior Weather Ball with Sunny Day / Rain Dance, Water Sport to half fire moves, stronger attacks which also rejuvenate HP (Read: Growth/Giga Drain), Sleep Powder, etc. The pros of Venusaur is being a bulky Grassy Terrain setter, which imo, Vileplume despite being just slightly frailer than it does better with access to Moonblast (not sure why you'd need it, but it has it, while Venusaur's non STAB move spans to about......Double Edge). If anything that's unique to Venusaur it'll be Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Grassy Terrain stall. That's about it. I don't think this deserves S-Rank.

Water thoughts

Seismitoad: B > D

Earth Power on Seismitoad doesn't exist in Reborn. Earth Power tutor is nowhere. For this reason alone, Seismitoad is half useless, as it's literal other ground move is mud shot. Granted, it's good in some field effects, but it's outclassed, too niche (and even when niche, nerfed, see Aya's field) and too late in game to be considered useful.

I agree with Seismitoad since even Swampert out classes it as a Rock setter and the other Water/Grounds outclass it as an Electric Immunity, will drop now. As for Venu I've gotta think about it, I'll edit my comment when I'm done.

[Noir]

I wasn't even aware Mega Stones were in Reborn even though we don't have a Mega Bracelet... But with Mega Evolution, Banette's Phys atk hits 165 which is incredible coupled with an average 75 but being able to Burn with Prankster Will O Wisp take your opponent with you with Prankster Destiny Bond is pretty great. Well I won't be counting Mega Evolution for these rankings until we get a Mega Bracelet anyway.

As for Dusclops being a better Physical attacker, Dusclops is 70 base attack, Dusknoir is 100 and Banette is 115. Although I agree that some of its best moves are Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak, I don't believe it deserves D since it has notable niche as a Physical attacker until Golurk is available and as a faster/stronger/less bulky alternative to Dusclops/noir as well as natural access to Knock off. I won't lie, Dusclops/noir is a better choice, but Banette isn't D tier. Imo the only Ghost that should be D or E even is Drifblim because I can't think of literally anything it can do that another Ghost can't do better or just anything it can do fullstop. Probably gonna give it C though, I'll draft up a moveset and a quick analysis for it.

I agree with Seismitoad since even Swampert out classes it as a Rock setter and the other Water/Grounds outclass it as an Electric Immunity, will drop now. As for Venu I've gotta think about it, I'll edit my comment when I'm done.

....Seismitoad gets Earth Power as an egg move, even without reverting to e14. Just want to point that out, not inclined to start more clashes here on forth after this. Don't see why this still merits the case though, considering Swift Swim and Water Absorb also mean it does, or can do entirely different things over Swampert. Edited August 26, 2015 by YagamiNoir4896

[SgtNoobly]

No blastoise for water and charizard for fire?

[Fumble]

No blastoise for water and charizard for fire?

Nobody's ranked them yet. I haven't done a Water or Fire Monotype myself, so I don't know how well either of them would do, but if you want to do them, go for it. I'd assume they're pretty useful based on their Abilities using the weather, and most people use Sun on a Fire Monotype or Rain on a Water Monotype.