I just want to make something clear.

[Revengercm]

As the title says. Please don't hate me because of my opinion. You're still doing an awesome job.

So I played this game till the very last of this update and deleted. Same goes for rejuvenation (4th gym update) and now I started playing Omicron/Zeta.

To summarized everything I'm going to say. I would say if omicron/zeta got mixed with reborn/rejuvenation it would be perfect.

Just keep making the game the way it is. Some may like it more that way but if you make a second game I would like it to be different.

What should both game should combine.

Reborn's music

Reborn's and Omicron's story. Both are good.

Reborn kills people... maybe they kill people in zeta too and I don't know yet but it doesn't seem like that.

Reborn's City environment. Not tauros fiels and what comes after. Reborn city felt like a dark, apocalyptic world and it got ruined with sunny tauros fiels, circus and ice mountains.

Difficulty: Let myself explain this. Reborn limits you too much to a point is an unfair advantage and omicron/zeta tries to make the game hard while giving you everything... yet they could increase the gym leader's party to 6. It's funny because I have died to regular trainers but meh. x10 tries on Reborn gym leaders wins. The thing is that a gym leader should still have x10 tries on him/her/it when I have a fair advantage including tms,items, pokemon. I don't want to use stinking butterfree vs an Arcanine and be beaten. I want to use a gengar with thunderbolt, giga drain or any tm move vs an arcanine and still get my ass wooped... not because I have to max the lvl cap and grind a better pokemon I found each time.

Omicron's graphics

Omicron's creativity

Omicron's features

I don't really like megas, fakemons so that's neutral for me.

Long Story

So I was reading zeta/omicron and it said this game is difficult in strategy, not level grinding. There are many hacks and rom hacks I played that reminded me of this. Dark Rising being the worst. It was the first hacked I ever played. Go figure. Then I found this and not being be able to surpass the level because of a badge was insane... mostly for the first gym.

Now here is what I think is positive about the game.

The feel: I liked how the game felt until you went outside the rail net. Which killed the joy because I like reborn city way more. It's dark, it feels 18+. Outside just feels like any regular rom hack. I always wanted to feel like I was in post apocalyptic pokemon world instead of sunny happy environment. Maybe that's why I stopped playing. It didn't feel as cool as... you know? That Ghost Gym Leader. Hell. I don't know but the game should have moments like that. I felt like I was playing a horror game which is good because if you can get that feel to a player in a pokemon game then you're playing your cards right. I also liked the doctor kidnapping the children too.

All of this stop with smashing crystals, riding tauros on a sunny day, circus... don't get me started on how stupid Terra the booty is. I get the jokes but they could have went with regular jokes, not uuf0000 m8 u wot fit me thing. Went from serious story telling to trolling there. I guess the arceus followers/cult thing was great as well but I recall, you went back to reborn city to get to 7th street. Where the feels come back.

The music is apocalyptic and awesome duh.

Now... I have to compare it to omicron because, that's how you know you're doing things write or wrong, right?

Reborn takes too much grinding and limits you too much. I constantly have to keep changing pokemon until I reached the normal gym leader (forgot his name, has been so long). When I do get the team I would use in any other game. The game gets too easy. My team easily sweeps everything... even with the limits of not having the tms I want. That grinding of levels is pointless. Waste of time.

Haven't been too far with omicron/zeta but as of now it's too easy but there are a lot of modes which I have no idea how some of them are and nuzlocke or egglocke are stupid for me. It's another grind your arse for another pokemon.

Also... why not kill more people. Kill everyone. I also like the feel the you're the only one able to stop evil. That kind of gives me an idea if a stranded game would be cool.

[Hypa]

Reborn isnt supposed to be a cake walk like zeta/omicron is, i solo'd zeta with dragon dance kingdra it really was very easy(not even joking EVERYONE gets solo'd by it) reborn adds difficulty limiting you to pokemon so you can try new pokemon that you wouldn't normally use. just because you don't like how difficult reborn is doesn't mean others don't enjoy the difficulty. making it like zeta would make the game worse and people would call it an imitation and anyways making it as easy as zeta is would be pointless.

Comparing this game to Zeta/Omicron is kinda insulting imo, zeta introduces fakemons and fake mega's where as reborn makes things more difficult by putting in some really good field effects if you want an easy game by all means play Zeta/Omicron but it's got no replay value once you completed it your just like wow there is 8hrs wasted....

Edited June 10, 2015 by Hypa

[Revengercm]

Reborn isnt supposed to be a cake walk like zeta/omicron is, i solo'd zeta with dragon dance kingdra it really was very easy(not even joking EVERYONE gets solo'd by it) reborn adds difficulty limiting you to pokemon so you can try new pokemon that you wouldn't normally use. just because you don't like how difficult reborn is doesn't mean others don't enjoy the difficulty. making it like zeta would make the game worse and people would call it an imitation and anyways making it as easy as zeta is would be pointless.

Comparing this game to Zeta/Omicron is kinda insulting imo, zeta introduces fakemons and fake mega's where as reborn makes things more difficult by putting in some really good field effects if you want an easy game by all means play Zeta/Omicron but it's got no replay value once you completed it your just like wow there is 8hrs wasted....

I already stated that some people may like this game way more because how it is. I haven't finished zeta yet and you could probably play nuzlocke and it would be harder but possible... here... good luck finding time with your life. This game, again. It's not difficult. It is just level grind difficult. As long as you grind your levels one should be fine. The game gets easier and easier as you get acess to strong pokemon. When I got my alakazam, gengar, machamp, mamoswine, magnezone and arcanine the game just became like any other rom hack. Not hard at all. Again, dark rising is harder. The only thing that makes the enemy team have an advantage are the field effects. Reborn can't even make the game harder with the regular mechanic but I guess omicron is as well.

Again, both games are not perfect and you could really make any game difficult lol. Making a game difficult isn't that hard but when you combine gameplay, features, story, environment, difficulty options then that's what makes a good hack... which none of the ones I played have it. Zeta states 80 hours of gameplay so I think you missed a 0. It's funny how you find this game progress when you actually don't progress in this game at all. You just remove someone from the team to get someone better and level him up to where the one you remove was... again. No progress. It's like a free 2 play or should I say f2p model without the paying because you have to do stupid grinding each time. I find a waste training my team for 6 hours to lvl them up all 5 levels compares to 6 hours of beating 2 gyms (which still is not even 5% of zeta) and actually progressing. The only thing I think they should have done it's increased gym leader's party but the game gives enough tools to lvl up pretty easily. From where I see omicron/zeta takes more work than this game because changing a pokemon level to 10 to 20 isn't that challenging in the creative way.

Why would you want to use pokemon you would never use? Just to know they're worthless and you have them as you wait for a better one? The game limits classic pokemon builds and that includes good tms etc. It's like receiving a tackle TM. Great. You made the game unnecessarily harder.

I just want to point out that I'm looking for the best hack that combines everything great about this game and others. Reborn has no replay value lol. If I had to pick which game to restart I would pick zeta because it's less stressful or annoying. I don't want to battle 300 bidoofs lol. At the end you have beaten it and it's done. Zeta has online battling, simluated guys etc. Oh and mirror b. lol (10/10).

too much of a thing is a bad thing. Difficulty isn't the only thing I dislike about this game. It's actually the only thing it kept me going after I beaten the normal gym leader.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Revengercm

[Imperial]

I'm not sure we played the same game... I started two runs on Omicron and never done more than half of the first region, it always made me start a new run on Reborn. Omicron is much bigger that's right, but I feel it's empty. You just go to the next gym, beat the leader, go to the next gym, with less to explore than in official games. No personality, no soul. While in Reborn you feel fully involved. Just look at all the threads about every choice you can make. Even the way you leave the Nuzleaf cage at the beginning is debated. And even if the region is much smaller than in Omicron/Zeta, there's so many things to discover. Even after one year and four run I still discover small events, places, small pieces of information that were already there before.

For the difficulty and the lack of pokemons at the beginning, well, that gives you the feeling you progress. In Omicron you can have strong pokemon early. Axew, Gastly before the second badge. 4 new starters around the fourth gym. Strong TM like earthquake early too. When you're already so strong, what's the interest in going on ? The story ? It's of the same level as the official games. In Reborn maybe you have to train new stronger pokemons sometimes and TMs are rare. But that way you really feel that your character is stronger. Your character and you too. I really learnt to play pokemon with Reborn because you can't win if you don't learn. And grinding is not that hard. At the beginning around Corey maybe, but after Shelly you can fight the Grand Hall trainers as much as you want. Strong trainers (sometimes a bit too much since they lvl up every two badges) making interesting battles. With them I can train a pokemon from lvl 1 to 75 (in E15) in a single hour. It's even easier than Omicron since in Omicron the only difficulty is the lvl of trainers, so in my last run around Mt Pyre (? where you must find Victini/Celebi) trainers have maybe 5 lvls more than me. This is artificial difficulty, just boring.

And about field effects, you see them just as a cheated boost for gym leaders to make them hard, but fields are an entire mechanic. You can always use these fields to your advantage, change them for one that better suits you, or just get rid of them. They add strategy in the game. Now in Reborn teams you often see pokemons whose role is to set or destroy fields for the others, as you can see sweepers, stallers, etc.

[BIGJRA]

Gameplay/challenge aspects aside, honestly comparing the plots of ZO and Reborn is like comparing an apple pie from McDonalds to one prepared by an expert chef. The biggest plot twist in ZO (at least in my opinion) is the identity of the villain character, but it doesn't get followed up by anything. I was waiting for some kind of interaction (like when Zeus/Gold interacts with Red, cough cough) and it really wasn't done well at all. Reborn has an excellent cast of fleshed out characters and the events within inspire speculation, which (again in my opinion) is an important part of a dynamic story.

[Revengercm]

I'm not sure we played the same game... I started two runs on Omicron and never done more than half of the first region, it always made me start a new run on Reborn. Omicron is much bigger that's right, but I feel it's empty. You just go to the next gym, beat the leader, go to the next gym, with less to explore than in official games. No personality, no soul. While in Reborn you feel fully involved. Just look at all the threads about every choice you can make. Even the way you leave the Nuzleaf cage at the beginning is debated. And even if the region is much smaller than in Omicron/Zeta, there's so many things to discover. Even after one year and four run I still discover small events, places, small pieces of information that were already there before.

For the difficulty and the lack of pokemons at the beginning, well, that gives you the feeling you progress. In Omicron you can have strong pokemon early. Axew, Gastly before the second badge. 4 new starters around the fourth gym. Strong TM like earthquake early too. When you're already so strong, what's the interest in going on ? The story ? It's of the same level as the official games. In Reborn maybe you have to train new stronger pokemons sometimes and TMs are rare. But that way you really feel that your character is stronger. Your character and you too. I really learnt to play pokemon with Reborn because you can't win if you don't learn. And grinding is not that hard. At the beginning around Corey maybe, but after Shelly you can fight the Grand Hall trainers as much as you want. Strong trainers (sometimes a bit too much since they lvl up every two badges) making interesting battles. With them I can train a pokemon from lvl 1 to 75 (in E15) in a single hour. It's even easier than Omicron since in Omicron the only difficulty is the lvl of trainers, so in my last run around Mt Pyre (? where you must find Victini/Celebi) trainers have maybe 5 lvls more than me. This is artificial difficulty, just boring.

And about field effects, you see them just as a cheated boost for gym leaders to make them hard, but fields are an entire mechanic. You can always use these fields to your advantage, change them for one that better suits you, or just get rid of them. They add strategy in the game. Now in Reborn teams you often see pokemons whose role is to set or destroy fields for the others, as you can see sweepers, stallers, etc.

I can't use field effects to my advantage for the most part unless I change my whole team which included a rain dance Walrein for the fire gym. The battles should be as hard as winning a tournament in VGC and they can't so they give unfair advantages. I also learned how to play pokemon but in reality I wouldn't use bibarel in a competitive area so. I forgot what's the grand hall. Beat a gym leader and go to the next one is what Reborn is all about lol. All pokemon games are the same except for XD and colosseum which are my fav ones. They don't have gyms. Simple as that. Reborn doesn't offer that much in content and hasn't taken too long already to finish this game?

Gameplay/challenge aspects aside, honestly comparing the plots of ZO and Reborn is like comparing an apple pie from McDonalds to one prepared by an expert chef. The biggest plot twist in ZO (at least in my opinion) is the identity of the villain character, but it doesn't get followed up by anything. I was waiting for some kind of interaction (like when Zeus/Gold interacts with Red, cough cough) and it really wasn't done well at all. Reborn has an excellent cast of fleshed out characters and the events within inspire speculation, which (again in my opinion) is an important part of a dynamic story.

Yes but it's more of a joke when you add Terra. The thing is I haven't been that excited after the Ghost Type Gym Leader. Since episode 10, I think. Tauros Fields and the rest just went downhill and I'm no longer interested. It takes too much time and if it was that hard why don't they make regular trainers have 6 pokemon, oh wait. You get too much of EXP.

[Chilibunny]

You started the topic by comparing the two and even had some positive things to say about Reborn. After that you've just been bashing it. You say that you can't use fields? Learn. You also say that fields are artificial difficulty whereas overleveled opponents aren't. The heck? You say that the game is just going from gym to another. The hell? Have you even freaking played the game? You say that Dark Rising is harder than this and complain about Reborn being a grindfest. Dark Rising is nothing else than a grindfest.

I'm kind of pissed. If you don't like something, okay. But atleast try to back that opinion with REAL facts if someone questions yours. Ugh.

[Revengercm]

You started the topic by comparing the two and even had some positive things to say about Reborn. After that you've just been bashing it. You say that you can't use fields? Learn. You also say that fields are artificial difficulty whereas overleveled opponents aren't. The heck? You say that the game is just going from gym to another. The hell? Have you even freaking played the game? You say that Dark Rising is harder than this and complain about Reborn being a grindfest. Dark Rising is nothing else than a grindfest.

I'm kind of pissed. If you don't like something, okay. But atleast try to back that opinion with REAL facts if someone questions yours. Ugh.

I'm bashing it because others make defensive statements and I want to establish a balance. Fields can't be used if you don't have the right pokemon. They could go with a field where ice and fairy type moves can't be used and make it a dragon gym. Sure, wynaut? Fields aren't in the original games so they must add something to make it harder. They can't make the game harder with its core strategy. Yes the game is go to a gym, go to the next one. Gyms are the hardest trainers right? So what's really the point of the game then? I hate darkrising and this game tries too hard to gives you hard fair advantages just so you aren't able to win. They can't make it hard with core pokemon difficulty. Unless they don't let you get pokemon with 500 total stats or more then it wouldn't be hard. Since they do, it's easy and the thing is I wouldn't like that way either.

My ideal difficulty would be this: I have an electivire, magmortar, alakazam, gengar, rhyperior and a machamp all lvl 50 with great natures and hell good TMs. Now why can't they make it hard with an equally fair team without the field effects lol?

[Mortally Divine]

To say the field effects were made up just to add artificial difficulty is kinda bullshit. I remember when Ame linked us all the video of Pikachu only being able to beat Onix because of the sprinklers, and said that it was a really good idea to add such field effects into the game to add more DIVERSITY in the ways that you could win a fight. You can still ignore field effects and beat all of the gym leaders regardless of their field effects, although it IS harder, its harder for a REASON. It WASN'T just made up. The idea itself is VERY good, and IMHO should be added to the regular games, because of how fun it is to play with the field effects. Why shouldn't Thunderbolt do more damage if the pokemon is covered in water? Why shouldn't a Grass type be a lot stronger on a Grassy Plain than in the Ocean? Shouldn't Earthquake cause caves to collapse?

Reborn also has a better story than a lot of RPGs that I've played in general. I've bought RPGs for 60$-80$, and they've had a less interesting / less in depth story than Reborn (which is free!!) To say the game isn't interesting makes me think you're a pretty boring person :/

Overall, besides my first pokemon game (Red). Reborn has been my favorite pokemon game. Even if my favorite pokemon is only a boss battle in the game, and I'll always waste a turn to throw a pokeball at it, it is still one of the best pokemon games I've played.

EDIT: You talk about wanting good pokemon and good TMs to make the game harder? How does that even work? Giving you good pokemon and good moves makes the game easier. Period. There's no difficulty when your team is better. Reborn limits your team to make sure you ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE A STRATEGY TO WIN.

?

Have to have the right pokemon to use a field effect? A LOT of the field effects can be used by a WIDE variety of pokemon, that argument is invalid.

You also say you're trying to find a balance, but it sounds a LOT like you're just bashing reborn

Edited June 10, 2015 by Mortally Divine

[Chilibunny]

I'm bashing it because others make defensive statements and I want to establish a balance. Fields can't be used if you don't have the right pokemon. They could go with a field where ice and fairy type moves can't be used and make it a dragon gym. Sure, wynaut? Fields aren't in the original games so they must add something to make it harder. They can't make the game harder with its core strategy. Yes the game is go to a gym, go to the next one. Gyms are the hardest trainers right? So what's really the point of the game then? I hate darkrising and this game tries too hard to gives you hard fair advantages just so you aren't able to win. They can't make it hard with core pokemon difficulty. Unless they don't let you get pokemon with 500 total stats or more then it wouldn't be hard. Since they do, it's easy and the thing is I wouldn't like that way either.

My ideal difficulty would be this: I have an electivire, magmortar, alakazam, gengar, rhyperior and a machamp all lvl 50 with great natures and hell good TMs. Now why can't they make it hard with an equally fair team without the field effects lol?

Why would they add an idiotic field effect like that? There is NO field effect that makes it stupidly hard. You can always find your way through. If you can't win, change something.

How do Zeta and Omicron make the game hard with core difficulty? What if the core difficulty is way too easy in the in-market games? Raise the opponent's Pokes levels, give them all Double Team? Create new fakemons with 1600 base stats or give Reuniclus an ability that makes it the fastest, bulkiest AND strongest special attacker in the game?

The game isn't all about gyms and neither it should be. It's a real good story with way more intense gameplay than any other turn based Pokemon game has given. It incorporates decision making. When you win, it makes you feel like you've accomplished something.

[Revengercm]

Why would they add an idiotic field effect like that? There is NO field effect that makes it stupidly hard. You can always find your way through. If you can't win, change something.

How do Zeta and Omicron make the game hard with core difficulty? What if the core difficulty is way too easy in the in-market games? Raise the opponent's Pokes levels, give them all Double Team? Create new fakemons with 1600 base stats or give Reuniclus an ability that makes it the fastest, bulkiest AND strongest special attacker in the game?

The game isn't all about gyms and neither it should be. It's a real good story with way more intense gameplay than any other turn based Pokemon game has given. It incorporates decision making. When you win, it makes you feel like you've accomplished something.

I have seen people being stuck with zeta/omicron in some cases. I haven't played much so I can't argue with that.

To say the field effects were made up just to add artificial difficulty is kinda bullshit. I remember when Ame linked us all the video of Pikachu only being able to beat Onix because of the sprinklers, and said that it was a really good idea to add such field effects into the game to add more DIVERSITY in the ways that you could win a fight. You can still ignore field effects and beat all of the gym leaders regardless of their field effects, although it IS harder, its harder for a REASON. It WASN'T just made up. The idea itself is VERY good, and IMHO should be added to the regular games, because of how fun it is to play with the field effects. Why shouldn't Thunderbolt do more damage if the pokemon is covered in water? Why shouldn't a Grass type be a lot stronger on a Grassy Plain than in the Ocean? Shouldn't Earthquake cause caves to collapse?

Reborn also has a better story than a lot of RPGs that I've played in general. I've bought RPGs for 60$-80$, and they've had a less interesting / less in depth story than Reborn (which is free!!) To say the game isn't interesting makes me think you're a pretty boring person :/

Overall, besides my first pokemon game (Red). Reborn has been my favorite pokemon game. Even if my favorite pokemon is only a boss battle in the game, and I'll always waste a turn to throw a pokeball at it, it is still one of the best pokemon games I've played.

EDIT: You talk about wanting good pokemon and good TMs to make the game harder? How does that even work? Giving you good pokemon and good moves makes the game easier. Period. There's no difficulty when your team is better. Reborn limits your team to make sure you ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE A STRATEGY TO WIN.

?

Have to have the right pokemon to use a field effect? A LOT of the field effects can be used by a WIDE variety of pokemon, that argument is invalid.

You also say you're trying to find a balance, but it sounds a LOT like you're just bashing reborn

Like I said. You have a WIDE varierty of pokemon to keep grinding their lvls and waste your time so you take an advantage of the field effects lol. It seems you haven't read. I'm treating you like this since you started saying bs. Well to me you may be a boring person because likes to waste time on useless lvl grind a WIDE varierty of pokemon and a bit of an outrage.

How does does VGC players get beaten even if they have perfect nature, IVs, tm pokemon? Oh right! Strategy and better well built teams. Not field effects or unfair advantages. I like the field effects but I only don't like that part that makes you grab other pokemon just so you use the advantage of them. Which by the time you get them, the game is too easy after that lol.

Since you think I'm bashing reborn I'll bash zeta omicron. Fakemons and fake megas are stupid. The game is so far too easy but in the way that gym leaders should have better teams, not making myself have extreme unfair limitations so I am just able to lvl grind and that's how I generally beat things. Zeta/omicron overworld looks worst than Reborn. Are we ok now?

EDIT: oh and the music ofc. Without the music I would have never continue playing the game after gym 1. If you make something hard make it enjoyable as you grind. Glitchxcity makes it better.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Revengercm

[BIGJRA]

... This isn't VGC, it's a fan made, single player, user vs. CPU game.

[primrose]

My ideal difficulty would be this: I have an electivire, magmortar, alakazam, gengar, rhyperior and a machamp all lvl 50 with great natures and hell good TMs. Now why can't they make it hard with an equally fair team without the field effects lol?

mainly because the current ai is terrible, from essentials iirc. if you're looking for challenge from trainers and gym leaders, they're already at a disadvantage because of the ai that's making decisions for them. it's not a human on the other side of the screen, it's a set of algorithms that, for the most part, suck at their jobs. until Ame can fix up the ai, i don't think you'll be getting the kind of challenge that you could find on, say, pokemon showdown. not this way, at least.

for the lack of reborn city you're bothered by, did you expect the entire story to take place in just the central city? the entire area you're exploring is the reborn region. the gyms are going to be in different locations, and one region is not going to be covered entirely by a crumbling metropolis. just look at the real world for one. despite the advancements we've made, you still see quite a lot of prairie, desert, jungle, forest, etc. a region is going to have geographical variety, if only because some land is just unfit for urban growth, and frankly, if the reborn region was just this crumbling city, it'd be small. tiny. that's not a region, that's a box you'd be trapped in. everything else on this point, however, is just your opinion. i won't argue with that. i just wanted to point this out.

the one other thing i'm confused about is your mention of grinding. personally, i've never had a need to grind unless i'm creating a new team member completely from scratch. not for any gyms, trainers, areas, etc. unless i felt a personal need to (as i'm a perfectionist). honestly, you may have been going about the game the wrong way. you can get plenty of team members in the first third of the game or so that remain useful for a long time after you receive them. personally, i've once used an ekans/arbok from the beginning of the game up until Tanzan before i finally replaced it, and it was my ace for Kiki and Solaris's garchomp besides. you can't judge potential team members based on their value in competitive battle, for instance (looking at your signature mostly), because this isn't competitive battle. this is just a pokemon game.

Edited June 10, 2015 by phoenix_fire

[Hypa]

um zeta is a quoted 80hrs of gameplay but if you actually play you can finish it in under 10 lol xD all i did was use kingdra and no others and i managed to kill everything with it .... dragon dance soo OP

[Imperial]

"Fields can't be used if you don't have the good pokemon". Well, that's partially right. All fields boost at least a type or attacks often commonly used. You say you have nothing that can use fields : are you only using tackle ? Noel's Grassy field boosts grass and fire attacks. You have no attack of these types ? Big Top arena boosts many common attacks and pokemons with abilities that makes them often used. On Charlotte's Superheated Field you can use Surf to easily decrease her pokemon's accuracy. And that's just a few examples.

And in the same spirit you can say that trees, boulders, rock and water should be removed from the game. Indeed if you don't have the right pokemon, able to learn the corresponding HM you can't go further. When you face an obstacle or a difficulty, you adapt, simply, like everywhere else.

And yes there are badges in Reborn, but they are almost secondary. Your progression in the story is not just about getting the badges. In official games, and it's even worse in Omicron, badges are the only important thing, the story with the evil team is secondary. You go to a town, beat a few team's grunts on your way, get the badge, go to the next route, beat a few trainers, reach the next town, etc. In Reborn the story is more important than your badges. You went to Apophyll to get the Strengh HM, Kiki's gym was just a bonus. Idem for Aya. You escaped with the children to help them, not to have the opportunity to face them. Noel's fight was just a pause. You're given the Battle Pass Fury and you face Samson to be able to use surf and reach Calcenon. You face Charlotte (with who you travel during several episodes without a single battle) to use dive and reach Ametrine to find Heather and the sleeping signal. Terra's battle was to catch her when you learnt she is a Meteor. Badges are secondary. think about Kiki's lesson about filling the bowl, that's Reborn's story.

And you don't need to fight a wide variety of pokemons to win gym battles. Just look at all the threads about monotype runs. Using a single type is not what I call a wide variety, but those people still win (even with bug types !). In my ground and psychic runs I defeated most champions easily. No need to have 550 BS mons with the best TM

[ZEL]

All I can say for the field effects based on my personal experience is that I don't think you really have to train a huge variety of Pokemon to take advantage of them.

Sure, if you trin the right Pokemon, you can optimize your advantages, but as for me?
I'm a very casual player. I don't do competitive, I barely ever EV train (only did it crudely for some of my Reborn 'mons because I wanted to try it out), and I don't try to get good IVs. I take what I get.

I don't try to assemble a perfect team. I play this game with my favourites, because that's how I enjoy it the most.

And I can still make use of the fields, and haven't wanted to ragequit the game yet.

I almost always find at least one effect on each field that makes things easier for me. Even if it's something as stubborn as sending out a Fire type against Charlotte to make use of the Heated Field. Even if it's just utilizing flinching moves for extra damage on Rocky Terrain.

And I have not once yet had to use a Pokemon that I didn't want to use anyway.

Besides my main team, I have four others in the box, one of which I consider active in rotation, the other three of which I dropped because I no longer wanted to use them on my main. I have no doubt I still could, if I wanted.

I beat Ditto Arceus with two NU tier 'mons, if that's anything to judge by.

Reborn isn't easy, and it's not supposed to. But I don't think the field effects or limitations on us players make it too hard to be enjoyable.

[Revengercm]

Ugh. Too many replies now. I already gave my two cents and I don't think anyone will change my mind but it's good to see other perspective.

um zeta is a quoted 80hrs of gameplay but if you actually play you can finish it in under 10 lol xD all i did was use kingdra and no others and i managed to kill everything with it .... dragon dance soo OP

Sure sure. Going to the pc center and grinding so hard seems like a 10 hour play lol. I'm on 10 hours and I'm on 5th gym.

[Mortally Divine]

I have seen people being stuck with zeta/omicron in some cases. I haven't played much so I can't argue with that.

Like I said. You have a WIDE varierty of pokemon to keep grinding their lvls and waste your time so you take an advantage of the field effects lol. It seems you haven't read. I'm treating you like this since you started saying bs. Well to me you may be a boring person because likes to waste time on useless lvl grind a WIDE varierty of pokemon and a bit of an outrage.

How does does VGC players get beaten even if they have perfect nature, IVs, tm pokemon? Oh right! Strategy and better well built teams. Not field effects or unfair advantages. I like the field effects but I only don't like that part that makes you grab other pokemon just so you use the advantage of them. Which by the time you get them, the game is too easy after that lol.

Since you think I'm bashing reborn I'll bash zeta omicron. Fakemons and fake megas are stupid. The game is so far too easy but in the way that gym leaders should have better teams, not making myself have extreme unfair limitations so I am just able to lvl grind and that's how I generally beat things. Zeta/omicron overworld looks worst than Reborn. Are we ok now?

EDIT: oh and the music ofc. Without the music I would have never continue playing the game after gym 1. If you make something hard make it enjoyable as you grind. Glitchxcity makes it better.

the WIDE variety of pokemon was meant to say that with a team of 6 you SHOULD be able to A) make use of the field effect in some way, B ) Cancel the field effect, or C) Change the field effect to something that suits you (Mist + Moonblast Gardevoir)

This isn't VGC. AI sucks, if you don't like facing AI because it's not challenging enough then that is a different problem.

I don't like to waste time grinding, but I've never had to spend a long time grinding either, the level curves are pretty close (although radomus -> samson is a stretch) On my first run I've even had to use common candies to REDUCE the level of my pokemon, because I gained too much experience on it.

I started out with the "bullshit" because you continue to call the field effects an unfair advantage. It's not really unfair, it actually makes sense. If you were a fire type pokemon leader, would you rather use Misty's gym (full of water) or Blaine's gym (its on FIRE!). Erm, duh? The field effects are pretty well thought out, as I said, and each one can actually be used AGAINST the leader, I beat Samson by using a Scrafty with Moxie, and OHKOing everything with High Jump Kick (took a few tries to get it to hit 6 times in a row though). I beat Radomu's trick room strategy by switching in an Escavalier, who because of trick room 1 shot every single one of his psychic type pokemon with X-Scissor or Iron Head (For the Fairy Gardevoir) The point is, the field effects aren't really an UNFAIR advantage. They are completely fair.

Off-topic, have you played Dark Souls? Its the same scenario here, you can call it unfair because it's hard, and different, but it is completely fair, and finally overcoming a challenge that has been beating you has a HUGE sense of reward

EDIT: Agh, Ninja'd

Edited June 10, 2015 by Mortally Divine

[Flux]

I'll agree that the "feel" of the game definitely changes after the earlier episodes, though for me the change was a bit past the railnet. My favorite part of Reborn was when you flee from Sigmund and the police with Anna, Noel, Shelly, etc. and hide out in Saphira's house. The game up to that point still felt dark, and there was a sense of urgency when you flee the city that I loved. After that segment, the game does change a bit. It's still dark, don't get me wrong, but it all feels less urgent, less dangerous, and just... different. Not that I don't still like the game; it's without a doubt the best Pokemon game or hack I've played. Just saying that I do agree that it feels different now.

[Hypa]

you havent even finished zeta/omicron yet ..... that kinda says it all if you purely use kingdra and nothing else and over level your pokemon to sh1t you can complete it easily under 10 hrs no grinding necessary all you need to do is set up dragon dance every gym battle and you are done simiples

[Stealth]

I'll agree that the "feel" of the game definitely changes after the earlier episodes, though for me the change was a bit past the railnet. My favorite part of Reborn was when you flee from Sigmund and the police with Anna, Noel, Shelly, etc. and hide out in Saphira's house. The game up to that point still felt dark, and there was a sense of urgency when you flee the city that I loved. After that segment, the game does change a bit. It's still dark, don't get me wrong, but it all feels less urgent, less dangerous, and just... different. Not that I don't still like the game; it's without a doubt the best Pokemon game or hack I've played. Just saying that I do agree that it feels different now.

I'd attribute you this to the whole, at this point and prior you're a different character you know? You start the game as this kid who really just wants to become the champion he/she/xe doesn't ask for this whole conflict and is just kinda thrown into a bunch of events when you're still relatively weak, but still managing to make a difference. After you escape from the orphanage and into the mountains, I'd even say after you stop the pulse abra you've resigned to your strength now. You've chosen a side one way or another and you expect to be caught up in this mess. I think that's when that sense of confusion or urgency really disappears. You're able to handle the bad guys at your own pace now having become relatively powerful. Or at least that's what I think,

[Myst]

Like everything else, this game isnt for everyone. Like how any game can be liked by someone and disliked by another. If you cant find what youre looking for in a game, then thats fine, I honestly find your opinion respectable and fine. I enjoy reborn to its fullest, but I can see where youre coming from too. We have different opinions on the game, and thats all good.

Unsure either way if theres a game that exists that would be of more interest to you. Lots of fangames arent that good in general. So that makes it worse.

[Foamy]

I can't use field effects to my advantage for the most part unless I change my whole team which included a rain dance Walrein for the fire gym. The battles should be as hard as winning a tournament in VGC and they can't so they give unfair advantages.

THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT. If you want to use field effects to your advantage, you have to adapt your strategy to them.

Do you really expect to make Gym Battles against preset AI algorithms as difficult as winning a VGC tournament? Here's a protip: Winning a VGC tournament is hard because of the players you face. These players are just as good as you, if not better. They are capable of far more than any computer.

Furthermore, a VGC tournament has an entire metagame, rather than a predetermined team of six Pokémon. You have to create a team that performs optimally in that metagame, or else you get stomped by someone who's using a team with a favorable matchup against yours.

Anyway, the whole "get rid of all the non-Reborn City areas" thing is dumb. I certainly wouldn't want to spend my entire gameplay experience within Reborn City. It's not just a city; it's an entire region. Confining the player to a single area throughout an entire adventure in a game where exploration is one of the primary focuses just sounds like poor judgment.

"Now... I have to compare it to omicron because, that's how you know you're doing things write or wrong, right?"

What the heck? Are you claiming that Omicron is the poster child, the SHINING EXAMPLE of fanmade Pokémon games that everyone should follow? Because Omicron is mediocre at best.

"don't get me started on how stupid Terra the booty is. I get the jokes but they could have went with regular jokes, not uuf0000 m8 u wot fit me thing. Went from serious story telling to trolling there"

You realize that the characters in this game are based on people in an online league, right? Terra exists in this game because she exists in the IRL Reborn League.

Honestly, there are just so many things wrong with your argument that I can't possibly encapsulate them all in a single reply.

[Daniel Blackworth]

First Point: You're saying that you can't use field effects to your advantage without changing your team ... but there are still ways to beat a gym leader without really using the field. I myself find other ways to beat a gym leader by using other strategies. I'm not that good of a player but I can work my way up even without the best pokemon, trained evs, and good ivs because I think of the best way to overcome an obstacle.

Second Point: I believe that this game is really the BEST pokemon game I've ever played because the character of the game really have personalities not just there to be battled and then gives you a badge for your victory. The story is awesome and it's not all about becoming the champion or beating an evil team, you actually get to make choices and interact with the characters.

Third Point: There is actually a reason for going to a location, not just going there to be getting a badge and then going to another place. I absolutely love the arc about going to Kiki's place for the purpose of helping the kidnapped children. Bottomline, there's a purpose for every decision you make.

Fourth Point: The graphics are really good if you ask me. It's load better than other fan games I've played and if you want the whole region to just be that dark apocalyptic world, then you have a really depressing thought about life. Also, a region is composed of different environments and not just a stereotype place. I for one find the location really unique and I absolutely love exploring the overworld.

Fifth Point: The difficulty is different with other games , since there really is a point for the difficulty and it's not ultimately hard unlike other hacks who make excuses by adding overleveled pokemon.

Conclusion: If you don't want it, then better deal with it because you can't just waltz in and complain about the game, unless IF you have really reasonable reasons or if you have created a hack that is ultimately perfect.

By the way: I don't listen to the music actually so my view on it is okay and I have no problems with it. I tried listening to it once, and all I can say is it's good even though I'm not a fan of songs without lyrics.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Mr. Divergent

[Amethyst]

To reiterate what he said in the first place, he is just stating an opinion. That's fine. As a couple others have hinted at, the game is not for everyone.

In that same line of thinking, different people play the game in different ways. As we can see, while may not enjoy the field effects, others do. This happens to be the fan-game that started field effects, so they're staying. Fortunately, there's a ton of others for people who don't like field effects, too.

And he's already got that covered in the OP:

Just keep making the game the way it is. Some may like it more that way but if you make a second game I would like it to be different.

The feedback is useful. While I appreciate the defense, and I'm glad that so many of our members have enjoyed Reborn, I don't think threads like this always have to turn into an argument, but they often seem to take that tone. That concerns me.

In any case, it's sort of a moot point. I'll be the first person to admit that this game is flawed (as is Pokemon on a whole, if you ask me). I am making a second game, but it's not a Pokemon game. Nonetheless, I'll keep it in mind.