Timekill Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Ciel was surprisingly easy. I used Emolga to paralyze her Togekiss and it killed Emogla while it was at yellow health. Then I went into Excadrill, set up a swords dance and took out Togeikiss, Archeops, and Noviern(cause it used Dragon Pulse), used Destiny Bond with Gengar to take down Gliscor, switched into Crobat on Talonflame and used fly, and brought Mega Altaria to red with Gardevoir and finished her off with Crobat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted June 12, 2015 Administrators Share Posted June 12, 2015 -Altaria: Left Noivern in to use another Boomburst, it leaves her in the yellow, and he gets OHKO'd by a (crit) Hyper Voice. Talk about overkill. Sent out Chandelure. Will-o-Wisp, she uses Hyper Voice... for some reason. Hyper Potion, Shadow Ball. Shadow Ball, Earthquake, Chandy is KO'd... but Altaria faints from the burn at the end of the turn. Tl;dr not too bad. I figured Altaria would give me more trouble than it did, but, apparently not. Maybe if the AI weren't being a bit silly and had used EQ in the first place. In a case like this, isn't Hyper Voice actually the better move? EQ = 100 * 2 SE / 2 burn = 100 BP total Hyper Voice = (90 * 1.3 pixil * 1.5 stab * 1.5 field)/ 2 NVE = 120 BP total Now, that's admittedly not counting the Field Bonus on EQ, but that's random, so it's tough to rely on that for AI anyway. Also, in that point of the game, we are pretty much given a decent selection of Pokemon to use - so she is naturally going to be easier than the previous leaders. I think every leader we have yet to face, except for the ones we'll be facing in a double battle, will be pretty easy to beat. This is what I'm struggling with. That said I also have to remember people on this forum are over-prepared compared to the average player. Nonetheless, there's room for improvement here. I held back on some things, such as the Dragon Dance set posted. I did want to give Hyper Voice some love though since we already had a dance sweeper, so I tried to make it work. The thing is, it seems like it has. M-Altaria already seems to do most of the work on the team; it's the other stuff that falls through. Crobat > Archeops: Defeatist just makes it a bit too easy, and crobat has nice bulk and speed to make people at least try somwhat harder for taking the easy way out. Chatot > Noivern: STAB boomburst, sing, chatter, nasty plot if needed. All the tools necessary for maximum rage inducement. Like I wanted to save Sing for Altaria, for sure, and Chatot is Taka's territory. Crobat was considered, but Ciel's struggling a lot with steel/rock types so I wanted Archeops's EQ. Like was mentioned, Aero doesn't get Acrobatics, so Archeops has to be the one to abuse the field. (did i really give aero acro though? awkward...). Currently I'm looking at a base damage increase for Acrobatics in that field for E16, and if I can figure out something to do with Fly that -isn't- just base damage but also isn't totally broken that would open some other options too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odybld Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Currently I'm looking at a base damage increase for Acrobatics in that field for E16, and if I can figure out something to do with Fly that -isn't- just base damage but also isn't totally broken that would open some other options too. Don't hold back and make it broken, again, Ame. Rain with Thunder and a Swift Swimmer for her water weaknesses already destroy everything she has other than Altaria. There's also Smack Down and Golurk with No Guard. Just find a way to inform the player in-game about the decreased priority so there won't be any surprises when they see themselves lose two rounds because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 This is what I'm struggling with. That said I also have to remember people on this forum are over-prepared compared to the average player. Nonetheless, there's room for improvement here. I think it's also important to note that most people playing this game play on shift rather than set. This means that any player will have a literal HUGE "unfair" advantage over the computer. At this point in the game I'm hesitant to think that it's going to be possible to create a legitimately challenging trainer for people with this advantage without making uber strong pokemon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zane0144 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Also remember Ame that fire resists fairy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sound of silence Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Like I wanted to save Sing for Altaria, for sure, and Chatot is Taka's territory. Crobat was considered, but Ciel's struggling a lot with steel/rock types so I wanted Archeops's EQ. Like was mentioned, Aero doesn't get Acrobatics, so Archeops has to be the one to abuse the field. (did i really give aero acro though? awkward...). Currently I'm looking at a base damage increase for Acrobatics in that field for E16, and if I can figure out something to do with Fly that -isn't- just base damage but also isn't totally broken that would open some other options too. Aerodactyl does have all its STAB's and coverage in EQ boosted by the high striker effect (sky drop and smack down respectively). Otherwise a pokemon like braviary with sheer force could work as it gets strength, sky drop and superpower. Sheer force would allow it to hit hard every time too, and it gets bulk up for the defensive set up sweeper feel too. Ciel can avoid struggling with rock/steel though. I mean you have gliscor, which is just a pain to kill without ice types (also cop that excadril). Maybe a gyarados to stop being so weak to ice while abusing the field effect with dragon dance and bounce? You could have it with intimidate to weaken physical rock and steel types, or moxie to make it a nightmare while abusing high striker earthquakes. If you go with that, I'd probably replace noivern, since it just adds to a major ice weakness and there's no need for TR + Ice attacker to be so effective. I know Ciel is meant to be the weaker flying type trainer, but she needs to be challenging at the same time given how far into the game we are. DD mega Altaria might be broken, but I think gyarados would be a lot less broken given its slow to start with, the player has access to good stops to it setting up (sturdy magnezone, rotom-w, any electric with air balloon really) and there just needs to be some sort of danger aspect to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiri Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 This is what I'm struggling with. That said I also have to remember people on this forum are over-prepared compared to the average player. Nonetheless, there's room for improvement here. I held back on some things, such as the Dragon Dance set posted. I did want to give Hyper Voice some love though since we already had a dance sweeper, so I tried to make it work. The thing is, it seems like it has. M-Altaria already seems to do most of the work on the team; it's the other stuff that falls through. Yeah I agree that Mega Altaria does most of the work for her team - but some of her other Pokemon aren't too much of a pushover - like Gliscor and Archeops (although I haven't battled Archeops yet - I battled the Pokemon that got replaced with it). Her other Pokemon do seem to 'fall through' though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odybld Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yeah I agree that Mega Altaria does most of the work for her team - but some of her other Pokemon aren't too much of a pushover - like Gliscor and Archeops (although I haven't battled Archeops yet - I battled the Pokemon that got replaced with it). Her other Pokemon do seem to 'fall through' though Both are actually very weak against rain, a Swift Swimmer will one-shot them. And Talonflame may actually be outsped and OHKO'd by SS Golduck with Aqua Jet in the rain. And it surely does after Stealth Rocks. How much of defog support does she actually have? Couldn't she use a Xatu to have one more measure against them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biboo195 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 My opinion : Switch Noivern with a Choice Banded Dragonite (E-Speed/Outrage/Fire Punch/Earthquake), and switch Talonflame with Staraptor/Honchkrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashonem Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I basically cheesed my way to victory The team: Lvl 73 Metagross Lvl 68 Granbull Lvl 71 Gyarados (you know where I'm going with this) Lvl 74 Magnezone Metagross went out first and took care of Togekiss without any real issues. Her next Pokemon was Archeops, which meant that I had my chance. I swapped in my Granbull, Intimidate/Charmed it to -5 and put it into Defeatist range just to be safe. I swapped in Gyarados, DD'd once, and it was mostly GG. I missed my Ice Fang on her Mega Altaria which stopped my sweep short (should have just used Waterfall, I was at +5 =/), but Magnezone took care of that issue. I was still in FUCKING KILL EVERYTHING mode after the marathon battle in which we face Fern, Blake, and Solaris' Garchomp again, Ciel was unfortunately caught in Gyarados' crossfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmegakid Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Stealth rock Golem to start dies against Togajet Charizard Rock tomb 3 hits Switch to Alakazam trick room And laugh at how Welrein cleans everything still mega Alteria go out to Amphoras and Twave We all know why Welrein was there lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 How's that for a non-suspicious title? SO HOW DID Y'ALL FARE AGAINST CIEL? I'd like the full run down, your team, what you thought of her team, what strategy did you use? For me : I found her to be pretty easy. Her team really did not even come close to what I imagined for her to have. Where's the elegance? Where's the beauty? Very misleading. So, my team consisted of Whimsicott(47, still have to train it more), Gigalith(56,only there because Sturdy and Stealth Rocks), Dragalge(74), Galvantula(75), Swampert(75) and Houndoom(73). So I started off with Whimsicott against Togekiss, Stun Spore, it got hax, Leech Seed. Switch for gigalith, Togekiss still out sped, Gigalith flinched. Second round it got haxd again so I set up stealth rocks and have it a stone edge, plus hax and Leech Seed damage it went down. Out came Gliscor, so I switched into Houndoom, hoping to out speed. I did and landed not only a crit with Flamethrower, it got burned as well. Houndoom got KO'd by a crit from EQ I believe. Then I sent out Swampert, Ciel used a potion, I hit it with Waterfall, that went on for three rounds, Gliscor still alive, I go for another waterfall and that dumb git switches in her Talonflame! Like what? Takes massive SR damage of course, walks into a waterfall and goes down. It comes Archeops, I switch back into Whimsicott to sun it cuz this thing is fast, but the stun spore misses and it takes down Whimsicott. I send out Dragalge but it out speeds as well, I believe hitting an earthquake. I send out gigalith while I max revive Swampert, gigalith goes down and out comes Swampert. I manage to take it down with a waterfall as well. Back into gliscor, which also went down again to waterfall. Out came Altaria, so I healed Swampert up a little, then went for a rock tomb (good thing I found that tm in the water treatment center) which dropped the speed, after which an earthquake took it down. She really shouldn't take the flying part out of a flying gym. I forgot her 6th Pokemon tho. Was it Chatot or Arodactyl? Either way it probably went down to Galvantula. What's your experience with Ciel? Still stuck? Or all set for E16 with a fresh badge? All I did was Calm Mind 6x while healing up whenever I got to low HP (with my Alakazam). Them I gave him 2 battle items (speed ones) and I sweept through her entire team... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaris Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I think it's also important to note that most people playing this game play on shift rather than set. This means that any player will have a literal HUGE "unfair" advantage over the computer. At this point in the game I'm hesitant to think that it's going to be possible to create a legitimately challenging trainer for people with this advantage without making uber strong pokemon. Then... shift mode could be axed... why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Because it's restrictive and will turn people away from the game. It wouldn't affect me personally, but I don't see it as a particularly good design choice, if people actually want a challenge then the option is always there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikana Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Ciel was pretty easy for me. I just had to use my Solrock against her whole team, I would keep spamming cosmic power while she had her Togekiss out and would heal when necessary. I gave it an x attack and spammed stone edge, luckily he never missed, so she was easy for me. Edited June 13, 2015 by Ikana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helia Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 I think it's also important to note that most people playing this game play on shift rather than set. This means that any player will have a literal HUGE "unfair" advantage over the computer. At this point in the game I'm hesitant to think that it's going to be possible to create a legitimately challenging trainer for people with this advantage without making uber strong pokemon. Now that I'm thinking about it I believe Ash had the option to switch his mons during gym battles as well from time to time. So it's not all unfair imo. If Ash van do it, we can too without feeling bad about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 No no, you're misunderstanding what I meant by that. The unfair part is specifically in quotation marks because some people would consider it to be unfair, I don't. The truth is that it's a massive advantage, but not an unfair one by virtue of the fact that the game lets you do it legitimately. You don't have to cheat to switch your pokemon, its an inbuilt feature of the game and hence fair for use, though the computer doesn't get access to this function so it does advantage you. The same can be said for things like X-items and revives. I choose not to use them because I can't honestly say that I'm better than this game unless I play with the rules that it uses, but it's not unfair for others not to do the same. That being said, what Ash does in the anime has no bearing whatsoever on what is fair and unfair in this game. The anime doesn't play by the game series' rules and vice versa so they're not really comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowStar Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Now that I'm thinking about it I believe Ash had the option to switch his mons during gym battles as well from time to time. So it's not all unfair imo. If Ash van do it, we can too without feeling bad about it. Eh I played on Set and Magnezone just had a good match-up vs everything and could takes an EQ w/ Sturfy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hahohehu Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Seel was pretty okay for me~ Other than the fact that her gliscor almost sweeped my whole team T_T And the mega altaria was wow. Crobat > mega altaria tho hohoho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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