[Guide] The definitively straightforward guide to roleplaying.

[Rezilia]

Perusing the roleplaying section, I have noticed that many roleplayers are unaware of basic roleplaying guidelines and have no idea how to increase their roleplaying potential. Let's be honest, the current guides for the roleplaying section leave much to be desired and lack examples. I will list a few links that can turn you from a roleplaying novice into a roleplaying master. Read them.

Da Rules:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/gaia-guides-and-resources/a-users-guide-to-roleplaying-leave-a-comment/t.70051961/

Literacy Levels:

http://subeta.net/forums.php/read/109608

The above does not include the Elite level. Elite is generally the same as Advanced with the requirement of having no spelling or grammar errors, being written with eloquent English, and containing what is equal to pages of text within one post.

Various excellent examples of Gaia-style roleplaying, which basically consists of pimped out Literate+ posts:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/test-forum/roleplay-layouts-no-posty-posty-c/t.76125425_1/

An excellent example of an Advanced RP, Gaia-style:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/series-related-miscellaneous-role-play/hogwarts-is-home-hp-next-gen-o/t.96897863_1/

You don't need to pimp your posts. This is not Gaia Online. Those examples simply exist to train RP building skills and help roleplayers understand how to properly contribute to an RP.

Many of you would like to TL;DR those. Don't. Read them properly and I guarantee that you will no longer make any roleplaying mistakes.

Thank you for your time.

[Kurotsune]

I've various issues with how you've worded this. I'll go over them one by one.

Perusing the roleplaying section, I have noticed that many roleplayers are unaware of basic roleplaying guidelines and have no idea how to increase their roleplaying potential.

Roleplaying ability is subjective. I'll elaborate more on this later, but let's not start with the basic premise anyone is better than anyone else, or that anyone is bad. People have styles and yes, some can improve, but much like drawing, writing is a subjective art. The beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Let's be honest, the current guides for the roleplaying section leave much to be desired and lack examples.

The authors of the guides are all active members of the community. Why don't you suggest the improvements they clearly lack rather than simply pointing it out?

I will list a few links that can turn you from a roleplaying novice into a roleplaying master

Only thing that can make anyone a "roleplaying master" is roleplaying. Guides do a good job at sugarcoating things, but if you want to get better at writing, write. Most importantly, find your own way of doing so; Mirror other people and the only thing you're going to become a master of is mimicry.

Da Rules:

http://www.gaiaonlin...ent/t.70051961/

While I understand those are generalized roleplaying terminology and rules, they're also from Gaia online. This forum has it's own rules, so why not link to them instead?

Literacy Levels:

http://subeta.net/fo...php/read/109608

Forgive my french, but qu'est que cette mierde? Let's not again part from a principle that you can rank people based on ability. Roleplaying is subjective. The idea of calling someone "illiterate" or "semi-literate" as perfectly-acceptable terminology depicting rank or level of ability is preposterous. I'd have no one be put down or be made to feel bad because they've been measured and they've "just come up short of semi-literacy". No. Some people write better than others, no one here is illiterate.

An excellent example of an Advanced RP, Gaia-style:

http://www.gaiaonlin...o/t.96897863_1/

I read this, and this forum has much better examples of roleplaying skills. I'm not going to go into detail or nitpick, but by page 4 there's already a gigantic amount of things I'd consider the opposite of proper roleplaying.

You don't need to pimp your posts. This is not Gaia Online.

Here we agree.

Those examples simply exist to train RP building skills and help roleplayers understand how to properly contribute to an RP.

Here we don't.

Anyone can contribute to a storyline regardless of skill level. If anything, it's the DM's job to make sure players are engaged and contribute. If they're not that good at doing so, the DM has to be the best among them so he can motivate them in the correct way of doing so. That's the tabletop way of doing it, admittedly, but one I much prefer over saying "you must be this tall to ride".

Read them properly and I guarantee that you will no longer make any roleplaying mistakes.

A tall claim if I've ever seen one. I've been roleplaying in it's various forms since the 90s and I still make mistakes more often than I'd care to admit.

[Nero Chaos]

Roleplaying isnt something thats quantitative as the user above has pointed out. Its a highly subjective thing and attempting to judge it is a flaw of bias in the first place.

The only real elements of writing one can improve upon in roleplaying are standard character creation skills, knowledge of tabletop, and GM preferences. Most everything is a highly effort based venture that is mostly reliant upon past experience with writing, which heavily contributes to how well one can paint vivid images or let others resonate with the sentiments of a character.

"Rules" are just requirements that are site specific so as to narrow down the scope of what is acceptable. Now the term acceptable is a word with a massive connotation and you cannot slap down another site's definition of rules onto a separate and distinct site.

If people want casual roleplays, so be it. If people want novella esque advanced roleplays, so be it. Both of them aren't intrinsically worse or better than each other. The only real separation of "quality" is mechanical nuances like grammar and word flow.

Why you are attempting to classify people here based on other site rules is beyond me. They might be subverting basic etiquette or something, but then again I highly doubt that isnt covered by this own sites rules.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Nero Chaos

[Noir]

Roleplaying isn't a fixed thing. Apart from the basic etiquette, it's not something that should be restricted by a platform or rules, nor compared in terms of superiority. The world of roleplaying with each forum is unique; nothing should shape that, nor should a fixed precedent be set.

With respect to your intentions of this, it will not necessarily be relevant as it is ultimately speculative and subjective. At the end of the day, roleplaying is at the hands of it's creators, not bound by restrictive rules or should it require us to adhere to another established roleplay.

[Felicity]

I don't think this is really necessary. The guides here in Reborn are actually quite nice as just tools to start someone off and allow hosts to help a player grow. As said before, the best way to learn is to either do or observe, people will naturally progress just by participating and reading other players posts. We work together to improve and progress with an RP.

[Chevaleresse]

seconding the opinions of those who have already posted, this tone is quite unnecessary.

in addition, the idea of "literacy levels" is irrelevant and quite frankly a bit offensive.

[Rezilia]

I do not find it offensive when a person acknowledges the difference between this:

"haxor l33t :D meowmeow 456'd dat junk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@"

...and this:

"As she pondered her plight, Madame Jezebel Tutor moved briskly through the evergreen wood. Acknowledging the severity of her predicament, the young lady could place few friends and a plethora of enemies. If only she had made more alliances than rivalries, perhaps her situation would not have been so grim."

Literacy levels are not the same as competency levels. They exist as a tool for RP Masters to specify the base level of literacy they desire in their RP.

The rules linked above are general rules found in any RP, described in better detail than I have seen them described in any threads in this forum so far. They contained many terms useful for RP Masters to use to describe the parameters they want in their RP; they are not meant to govern every RP in this forum and I never stated as such.

As for writing ability, I have found that writing itself does not improve said ability. Rather, it is the reactions to one's writing and the reading of others' writing that improves writing ability. If you do not set a standard for people to look up to and improve upon, they will never improve, period.

The idea that writing itself improves writing ability is the foundation of sites like FanFiction.Net, and the writing there is terrible. Many members of such sites believe that they're ready to write novels just because similar authors applauded them for their terrible writing. That method does not work.

I'm not saying that the writers on here are terrible. Most are atleast good enough to pass high school English, which is good enough for the Internet. What I am saying is this: If you tell someone that their writing is good enough, that their roleplaying is good enough, that anything they do is good enough, they will NOT aspire to get any better. This principle is universal and it also applies to roleplaying, no matter what site that roleplaying is on. Skill is not subjective, only testable.

[Nero Chaos]

The term Roleplay Master seems laughably entitled to me. Its an arbitrary stratification thats hilariously biased and non inclusive to fringe writers thats also subject to change from site to site.

I'll simply imply reiterating of my stance about rules, as I feel I and others here have made clear points which have largely gone unaddressed.

All im saying is that you cant generalize unless you are doing such at the most basic of levels, which is simply in regards to finesse in English mechanics. To say that sophisticated writing does not make a sophisticated roleplayers is an absolutely inane statement, and utilizing FF, a wealth of both the worst and best, and stating that writing level does not necessitate good roleplaying is both a logical fallacy and rather lacking tact.

[Rezilia]

All im saying is that you cant generalize unless you are doing such at the most basic of levels, which is simply in regards to finesse in English mechanics. To say that sophisticated writing does not make a sophisticated roleplayers is an absolutely inane statement, and utilizing FF, a wealth of both the worst and best, and stating that writing level does not necessitate good roleplaying is both a logical fallacy and rather lacking tact.

What.

I don't get it: Are you stating that good roleplaying requires good writing or that good writing is not required for good roleplaying and vice versa?

[Kurotsune]

do not find it offensive when a person acknowledges the difference between this:

"haxor l33t meowmeow 456'd dat junk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@"

...and this:

"As she pondered her plight, Madame Jezebel Tutor moved briskly through the evergreen wood. Acknowledging the severity of her predicament, the young lady could place few friends and a plethora of enemies. If only she had made more alliances than rivalries, perhaps her situation would not have been so grim."

Yes, one is a poor usage of ad ridiculum, the other is a subjective example of proper roleplaying.

Literacy levels are not the same as competency levels. They exist as a tool for RP Masters to specify the base level of literacy they desire in their RP.

I'll be brief. If you want to nitpick your players and you're unwilling to help others improve, then you've failed as a DM before you've even begun.

The rules linked above are general rules found in any RP, described in better detail than I have seen them described in any threads in this forum so far. They contained many terms useful for RP Masters to use to describe the parameters they want in their RP; they are not meant to govern every RP in this forum and I never stated as such.

I'll trust the RP Masters themselves to list what they want in their RP, rather than someone else.

As for writing ability, I have found that writing itself does not improve said ability.

Experience improves ability. This is non-debatable. To claim otherwise is nonsensical.

Rather, it is the reactions to one's writing and the reading of others' writing that improves writing ability.

Two processes called analysis and feedback, which are a part of developing experience, and not at all independent from it.

If you do not set a standard for people to look up to and improve upon, they will never improve, period.

I'd rather set an example.

The idea that writing itself improves writing ability is the foundation of sites like FanFiction.Net, and the writing there is terrible.

The idea that doing something several times improves your ability at doing said thing is the foundation of the worldwide educational system, and one website being the exception does not disprove the rule.

Many members of such sites believe that they're ready to write novels just because similar authors applauded them for their terrible writing.

That's their opinion.

That method does not work.

This is yours.

I'm not saying that the writers on here are terrible. Most are atleast good enough to pass high school English, which is good enough for the Internet.

I don't think you're trying to come across as arrogant, but I'd just drop the friendly warning that you are. And as patronizing. And ultimately wrong.

While I'll agree that not everyone here is a writer, it doesn't mean they're intrinsically bad players, or that you have a right to rank their English level.

As a side note, the irony that you've made a typo there isn't lost on me.

If you tell someone that their writing is good enough, that their roleplaying is good enough, that anything they do is good enough, they will NOT aspire to get any better.

Motivation should come from the self. That's their problem.

This principle is universal and it also applies to roleplaying, no matter what site that roleplaying is on. Skill is not subjective, only testable.

The principle that motivation is necessary to improve? Yes. What you're preaching, however, is an ideology.

Lastly, skill is subjective when it comes to art because what you may perceive as bad others may perceive as good. It's as simple as that.

[AuthorReborn]

Forgive my french, but qu'est que cette mierde? Let's not again part from a principle that you can rank people based on ability. Roleplaying is subjective. The idea of calling someone "illiterate" or "semi-literate" as perfectly-acceptable terminology depicting rank or level of ability is preposterous. I'd have no one be put down or be made to feel bad because they've been measured and they've "just come up short of semi-literacy". No. Some people write better than others, no one here is illiterate.

I'd really like to point out and add to this point here that a large portion of this community learned English as a second, third, or more, language. There's no reason to judge their illiteracy, as they are already aware that they may not be the very best like no one ever was, as they are already aware of that fact and are working to better themselves.

How are they working to better their English, both in writing and in general?

The same way anyone gets better at anything-by practicing. You don't immediately gain muscle tone from lounging around your house thinking, "Huh. I'm pretty fat. I should go work out." No, you'd actually have to exercise your muscles. Only through practice and rigorous dedication can you become better at any art or matter in general and writing is not exempt from this category. You cannot truly know something you do not partake and understand in. For example, I'm a guy. Not a woman. I don't presume to understand women simply because I am a guy and I cannot truly understand what they are going through due to a lack of experience of their circumstances. If I had the experiences of being a woman, perhaps I would understand and be able to relate and understand other women. But I am not a woman, so thus I have no such experiences and thus no understanding.

I'll leave one closing note here: the world is not won through skill alone. Practice and dedication are required to hone any skill to an optimum level. Inante skill and ability are truly boons to one's self, but it is possible for one who was initially less skilled over take the one who previously seemed more skilled through a ton of, to quote Winston Churchill, "Blood, toil, tears, and sweat." Only through an offering of these four things, along with a desire to change and adapt, can anyone become a better and improved version of themselves.

[Rezilia]

I'll be brief. If you want to nitpick your players and you're unwilling to help others improve, then you've failed as a DM before you've even begun.

foundation of the worldwide educational system

And ultimately wrong.

While I'll agree that not everyone here is a writer, it doesn't mean they're intrinsically bad players, or that you have a right to rank their English level.

As a side note, the irony that you've made a typo there isn't lost on me.

Motivation should come from the self. That's their problem.

Lastly, skill is subjective when it comes to art because what you may perceive as bad others may perceive as good. It's as simple as that.

I would rather fail potential RPers than fail my RP.

Last time I checked, the foundation of the worldwide education system was teaching to the test.

Wait, so you're complaining to me about not understanding the subjectivity of things, and yet you claim that what I'm saying is ultimately wrong?

I did not say they were intrinsically bad. And yes, I do have that right when I am the RP Master. Having a tier of literacy to point to when describing my own rules for my own RP is helpful; you may not use it but others will, which does not invalidate my action to post that link for others to see.

Please point out the typo.

If you fail to inspire others, you've failed as a leader. No one is going to follow someone who lacks faith in them. You may not believe it is important to contribute motivation, but I do.

Art skill is not subjective; the meaning of art and aesthetics of beauty are. Every discipline of art and concept of beauty has a sliding scale of technique, which is traveled upon when training. The totality of that training is skill. Skill is testable and is not subjective.

[Felicity]

Skill is subjective. Simplest example: A goal in football doesn't mean jack shit to me. Other people sure as hell seem to love it. Is that not quite literally a difference between two subjective views in regards to an act of skill?

EDIT: To elaborate, that example links in because in quite the same way, peoples writing in this Forum can be seen differently. Stratos tends to write a lot of detailed posts in his RPs and I appreciate the skill in that but some people may see that as just a lot of detail that leaves little to the imagination. Two different views on Strats level of skill (Sorry to use you as an example bud, first for me to think of)

Also Rez, your tone is beginning to sound a little too confrontational. No one is here for that, this is supposed to be a respectful discussion and there's no need for emotions to run high for anyone.

[Rezilia]

(Ah, sorry about that.)

I did not mean the worth of the skill but how well the skill was performed. A goal in football doesn't matter to me, either, but it takes practice to do so - which is the skill I was referring to.

[Felicity]

Well in this Forum skill isn't as much of an issue. It is the goal of everyone here to cooperate and hone our writing to competent levels whilst building a story we can all enjoy. Thus there's no need for a form of ranking for that skill.

[Pyon Pyon Kyuu!~]

I don't think there is an issue to begin with. Don't people have fun here in the roleplaying section? I'm part of only one active roleplay the moment but I sure as hell am having fun. Everyone's skill doesn't matter. This isn't the Band Orchestra club where we are working for nationals or something. We are here to have

**FUN**

[Kurotsune]

I would rather fail potential RPers than fail my RP.

Games are made for the player. If you want full control, write a book.

Last time I checked, the foundation of the worldwide education system was teaching to the test.

University level education teaches in the form of both theoretical and practical experience how to do something. I wasn't clear there.

Wait, so you're complaining to me about not understanding the subjectivity of things, and yet you claim that what I'm saying is ultimately wrong?

You're ultimately wrong because most people here would pass university level english, rather than high school level. Thus your point of "most people being good at a high school level" when in fact the great majority are much better if bothered to be is ultimately wrong.

I did not say they were intrinsically bad.

If you're referring to the roleplayers, you've made it sound like you did.

If you're referring to the tiers, you didn't, but I did.

And yes, I do have that right when I am the RP Master. Having a tier of literacy to point to when describing my own rules for my own RP is helpful; you may not use it but others will, which does not invalidate my action to post that link for others to see.

Ranking people by skill may not be a huge sin, but the way it's presented is boisterous and offensive.

Please point out the typo.

At least is not a single word.

If you fail to inspire others, you've failed as a leader.

Agreed.

No one is going to follow someone who lacks faith in them.

Agreed.

You may not believe it is important to contribute motivation, but I do.

Disagreed. I've never said it's not important to contribute to motivation. In fact, I've opposed your system because it's demotivating, and to say I'm against motivation is contradictory. I said motivation is the person's problem because it is. I can contribute to it and aid it as much as I can, but motivation lies ultimately within the self. You can keep the fire burning and even fuel the flames, but you can't start them if the person doesn't let you.

So it's their problem.

Doesn't mean I won't help.

Art skill is not subjective; the meaning of art and aesthetics of beauty are. Every discipline of art and concept of beauty has a sliding scale of technique, which is traveled upon when training. The totality of that training is skill. Skill is testable and is not subjective.

This one's gotten redundant, so I'm going to stop commenting on this.

The irony of you mentioning that technique is refined by training, however, is also not lost on me.

[Shamitako]

Okay, so, there's one point I'd like to point out where you are flat wrong, Kuro

Roleplay ability absolutely does not always improve purely with time. It only does so if the roleplayer wants to improve (which imo isn't a requirement to continue roleplaying, I'll comment on that in a moment) I encountered a roleplayer who had been RPing for some ten years and still wrote posts like this:

"how dare you!" she said *punches him*

(Okay, so that's a bit exaggerated, their posts were usually longer)

I personally use this system of illiterate to advanced to rank things (though I'd be content to use different, less degrading terminology, however this terminology is fairly universal as I've seen) But I don't consider writing at an illiterate level to be bad so long as you're in an illiterate level RP. Further, if you're in an illiterate RP, writing at a literate level is bad. You should be writing at the level the RP is at. Take Dobby's earlier example of Stratos, there's been some RPs I've been in where his posts would be pure nuisance because nobody wrote more than a paragraph a post

Also, @King Midas. I for one do not enjoy an RP unless it is at least on a literate level. This doesn't mean someone else can't enjoy a higher or lower level roleplay, just that I personally write best at that level. Not saying you're wrong, just saying that "fun" is as subjective as beauty owo

TL;DR

Improvement requires a want to improve, not just time

Improvement isn't required

Different levels are for different people

I'll use different terminology if someone has a suggestion

[Kurotsune]

Okay, so, there's one point I'd like to point out where you are flat wrong, Kuro

Go on.

Roleplay ability absolutely does not always improve purely with time.

Never said that.

In fact, from another post of mine in this very thread:

The principle that motivation is necessary to improve? Yes.

And "doesn't always" sounds like trying to use an exception to invalidate the rule. Which you proceed to do in:

I encountered a roleplayer who had been RPing for some ten years (...)

One.

The rest is your opinion, which is yours and I choose to respect.

If new terminology were to be proposed, I'd admittedly be willing to give this a second glance.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

At this rate I am just locking this thread. Nothing good is coming out of it and it is just a circle argument of a bunch of different opinions. I rather not have things explode over this so, I am want to lock this before said things happen. ((and I really don't see it going anywhere else.))

While I appreciate the thought Rezilla, I am sorry, but it isn't how things are run here. I am not about to go around ranking people etc... because it is not something I am going to do ever. Also, every example of yours posts away to some other communities rules and RPs. They are not Reborn... if you are looking for RP communites like that I am sorry, but REborn is not currently set up in this fashion and never will be as long as I am around. It isn't what I feel is good for the community. We are small we don't have the luxury of doing such things etc... nor do I think it is right to rank people as such, it is horribly condescending... and frankly I don't really care for the entire attitude of the post. Maybe that wasn't your intention but that is how you come across right now, so excuse me if I feel that way about it.

[Shamitako]

Oh trust me, I know a lot more than that one guy. That's just the example I chose

[Flux]

Yo yo Hukuna bro, where are you? This thread might need the old 'Kuna lockdown if things don't calm down.

EDIT: Nvm, he's a ninja mod.

Anyway, I think certain people are taking this a bit too personal. Let's just calm down, yeah? Rez, I'm not sure what you're used to, but around here, a big focus of our roleplaying forum is to help everyone improve -- both veterans and new roleplayers alike. I've been doing this for almost two years now, and I can still see places where I'm a bit shaky. Whether you'd believe it or not, time does contribute to the improvement in roleplaying. (Just look at my early posts in Aftermath. ) As others have said, improvement also does require a willingness to learn, but I haven't found anyone here who lacks that. Yes, sometimes it can be frustrating to see poor grammar or whatnot, but I'd much rather deal with grammar than shun people from all roleplays just because of that factor. I have a friend here who started off with very poor grammar in his roleplaying, but with the help of the members in this subforum, he's grown exponentially better.

[Chevaleresse]

I'm shutting this down before it gets further out of hand.