[Spoilers] E16 Status Discussion

[Amethyst]

I would like to ask Ame though: In your opinion what is the hardest puzzle of the game currently? Will there be even tougher later on? If so, would you be so kind as to give us a hint on what kind of puzzle it would be?

Probably the Chess puzzle for those unfamiliar with it, or Shelly's pre-the current change. Assuming people don't look stuff up anyway. I don't think most of the puzzles in the game are hard, but I'm also a little biased, since I sorta know all the solutions.

I don't really plan the puzzles in advance; I let that happen as I make each area. So who knows! But ideally puzzles would scale in difficulty as the game goes on. I can only do so much though... so we'll see.

I do plan on having a field day with the Victory Road puzzle though.

@ Ody:

-the Steel types distribution in the game is going from bad to worse

Even distribution of types at all stages is not a goal of the project.

-Do you like promoting the game as being inconsistent?

I would rather promote the game as 'dynamic', but you might argue that the two aren't all that different. In any case, I don't view things changing as a bad thing in itself. If people want to call it inconsistent, I don't really care because,

And that two Pokemon still exclusively found in the Wasteland, Spiritomb and Inkay, are the definitions of reliance on luck:

It's true, they are! I also don't think this is a bad thing. I will disparage the role of luck in a battle system time and time again but currently I feel that it has a pretty nice role in affecting availability per playthrough. You'll notice as of E15, espeically in the early game, there's a lot of luck-based events now. You get a random egg pokemon. You get a random pokemon between pachirisu/zigzagoon, or drowzee/ducklett, so on. I've seen that this sort of variance is a good thing because it creates different experiences (especially for second-time players) between different playthroughs.

-Do you like continuing with the "first come, first served" mentality that older players get all the good stuff?

Do they really? Because how I see it, current players get a lot nicer stuff than old ones do. I mean, do any older players get the new content per episode? Do old players have Lapras, Sneasel, or a chance at Volcarona, Haxorus and so on? They might-- if they're also still current players. But I think that everything new in a given episode makes up for the few sacrifices along the way.

Frankly, that mentality is just impatience. "I want this thing that was removed NOW, daddy!" Settle down, Veruca. It'll come back. And the game will be better for the change in the end.

And don't try to force stuff. To axe Gastly, you forced a Pokemon who's theme is mischief (Misdreavus) lose its perfectly suiting event of hide and seek to be in a very creepy, very negatively ladden event where it pretends to be a dead person. Gastly can do that job, Misdreavus doing it is just not fitting at all.

That's strange, because I think Misdreavus is actually more fitting. While Gastly -is- shown to use illusions and whatnot in the anime, Misdreavus is actually known for it (well, moreso Mismagius, but close enough.) The Pokedex says that Misdreavus likes to startle people, and feeds on fear. Gastly just puts people to sleep or gasses around. Misdreavus wins.

Another reason to not axe them: the availiability of Steel types in the game won't be balanced at all: we're 75% done with the game, and we have 13 fully-evolved Steels (Steelix, Forretres, Mawille, Aggron, Empoleon, Wormadam, Bastiodon, Bronzong, Lucario, Escavalier, Bisharp, Durant, Klingklang) , leaving out 9 (Magnezone, Scizor, Skarmory, Metagross, Probopass, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Aegislash and Klefki). 13-9 or 14-8 if someone is lucky enough to get Exca. I am fairly confident that no other type not named Dragon comes close to a 61% availability with the game being at 15/19 episodes released (axes included).

I'm also pretty sure that no other type not named Dragon has 40% of its Pokemon in OU or Ubers (counting Swagplay for Klefki anyway).

Yes, I do not see any reason to axe Magnezone. Yes, it is OU. Because it has a certain niche to trap some steel Pokemon and can kill them unlike Probopass. And the steel-trapping ability doesn't even matter outside OU because there is another Pokemon that can do it almost as well (Magneton) but there are no Skarmory, Klefki, Ferrothorn and Scizor outside OU. And the AI doesn't do switches, so trapping isn't really a thing. Axe Gothitelle if trapping is the issue. Yes it is a fan favourite. Nothing we can do on that one. It's impossible to eventually keep fan favourites from getting some big usage. Under that logic, axe your favourite Gardevoir.

I really don't care about Magnet Pull. I care that Magnezone's typing + popularity + Mirror Coat + coverage + sturdy makes it too good of an option compared to other things at the same point-- you've got the 'peerless' part right. Fortunately, there -is- something I can do about it, and I did.

I already axed Gardevoir once. Not sure what you expected with that comment.

Probopass is an unfortunate casualty, but next to no one cares about it anyway, so that's fine. I plan to add an event to give it relevance despite being forced back.

Also, you know who uses a Magnezone? Shofu, the most popular Reborn LPer. Do you like promoting the game as being inconsistent?

I really don't understand this logic. Shofu's entire team except Cofagrigus has already been axed. Including Magnezone. That aside, you want me to not make choices for the game's balance because a youtuber uses certain Pokemon? I was willing to put some of shofu's d a n k m e m e s into the game but that's too far.

-fix the AI to be able to read Air Balloons

See the part in this topic where I said I already did.

If you think that the centralization merrits axing, let me retort with this argument: centralization is the result of a Pokemon being not only very good, but also unique, peerless. A quality Metagross has, because, simply, there is no other pokemon with the pseudo tag to rival it.

Thus, we put Metagross into a part of the game where it has some peers. Problem solved. ^~^

E15 was exhibit 0, and E16 is exhibit 1 of much longer development times. You have to consider each episode you release a stand-alove game that will be played, finished, replayed, challenge-run-played, mono-run-played, and replayed some more. You have to concern yourself both with E19 as a finished product and E16 as a finished product.

To an extent, yes. However, the E19 finished product is a much higher priority, so I make changes for the sake of that. Nonetheless, I think this point counters your purpose, because I wouldn't be making this change right now if I weren't concerned about the performance of these Pokemon in the interim of development. Otherwise I'd just wait to axe them on the final release.

Stop micro-managing availiability, Ame.

With all due respect, stop telling me how to make my game. I accept feedback, not instruction.

Also like??? Magnezone and Metagross are still in the game. Per the definition of 'axe' from before, it includes not only being removed, but just being pushed back later in the game.

pls calm

[Odybld]

Ok, there has been a misinterpretation on my part: I thought that "axing" explicitely meant completely removing Pokemon X from the game in its current stage, as opposed to moving it back. And, since this is a case of movebacks and not complete removals, many of my points are moot, because I made the case for something that it is not the case.

I guess i was too fast to jump the gun.

For that, I apologize, and I also apologize if I sounded too harsh or patronizing. I hope you can accept my apology.

Some minor points:

-OU viability =/= in-game viability, especially for Steel types that more often than not have defensive and utility roles in teams.

-older players still carry their Gyarados and the less-than-healthy "I swept last gym with Gyarados" mentality.

-The difference between the Peridot quarter and the Mystery Egg shuffles (which I both loved as a concept and I hope we get more randomized events to increase variance, which in turn increases the replayability of the game, and you are really cool for thinking ahead of the E16 curve and planting that ahead) is that in those events, you will get your Pokemon without any pain, no matter what, at that moment. Well, pick the wrong player character name and you can bang your head on the very few Wasteland trees while getting barely anything. The mechanic was made back in Gen2 iirc with these long rows of headbuttable trees. And the odds are stacked in favor of endless mining in Spiritomb's case. Certainly a profitable activity, but quite tedious after a while.

I will stand by my concepts. My worries have been at large eliminated, since there wasn't the removal case I was arguing against, and I hope that everything will short itself out in the end.

Thanks for taking the time to answer me though, I really appreciate it.

[Commander]

So to change the topic, Probopass. What do you guys think might be done with that one? (Unfortunately, my mind is trying to figure out how Sirius's could be used to torture somebody without looking silly.)

[CURIE]

Also like???

HAS FLASHBACKS TO TUMBLR

NOPES THE HELL OUT

Anyway, have you seen any particularly cool animations latley? It's been a while since any got posted.

[Damage]

Pokemon availability should be pretty varied and location specific just like the old games. I love metagross and used it several times but I'm pretty sure in its debut game it was post-game content as it should be. I like the idea of having a psuedo early on but it should be damn hard to find and even if it becomes easy due to the community it should have a puzzle that always requires thinking and backtracking like a quiz that asks "how many grass patches are there in aya's gym".

As far as puzzle changes I think you should totally change Rad's puzzle. Not due to its difficulty but because of things like Shofu's run. I have never even attempted to solve that puzzle on my own. I watch shofu's solving it Every. Single. Time. I applaud everyone who does it the normal way or by memory but I think all puzzles should require honest effort. (i don't like chess....) but Puzzle wise I still think if you haven't seen it or have gone on enough playthroughs where you've memorized it then its still a pretty challenging puzzle.

[The God Fist]

I do plan on having a field day with the Victory Road puzzle though.

...This statement gives me a sinking feeling that I'm not gonna like victory road.

TBH though I don't think any of the puzzles need to be nerfed least of all Shelly's, most of the puzzles in the game aren't crazy hard and the few that are still aren't hard enough that it's super unpleasant trying to solve them. The only puzzles that I thought were difficult was the Blackstream factory cage puzzle and the last board of the chess puzzle, other then that the only puzzles that I thought were "hard" were the ones that: were tediously long, made you restart because you made one wrong move, were bogged down by lag, or in rare cases all three * cough cough fucking route 2 cough*. It kinda sucks that parts of the game that aren't to hard are getting easier, but I guess if enough people think it needs to be changed it probable would be better.

Also I just want to clarify, I'm not trying to sound like a Fern, and seem like I'm superior to everyone else just cause I'm moderately decent at solving puzzles. I don't know if it was necessary to say this, but I just felt like I might have been coming off like a bit of an egotistical dick and didn't want to offend anyone.

[Amethyst]

I'll start posting animations on weekends, since that's usually all I work on at that time.

like a quiz that asks "how many grass patches are there in aya's gym".

Beat you to it.

Today I finished the TV weather reports, changed the weather system to never select the same pattern twice in a row, added in the Amplifield Rocks to mining and content, made PULSE Pokemon start the battle as shinies (most of their shinies match the PULSE forms) where appropriate, and solved for another AI bug I found.

To elaborate on the bug, it's from base Essentials, so it'll exist in past releases and other Essentials fangames too. Part of the AI for doubles wants to take its partner into consideration. Only, it doesn't do this very well, because it looks for the wrong class of moves (it looks for moves that target the user's side, as opposed to moves that target everyone). On top of that, the syntax in that section is incorrect so the moves that it finds will never be chosen. Meaning there's a selection of moves that are basically never going to be used in doubles, and it's not considering the partner as it should be when using moves like Earthquake. So that explains a thing or two.

Anyway, that should be better now.

[DJWongTong]

Orderly John and Solaris bout to inflict all sorts of pain now with the not-ass doubles AI, can't wait to see how it's been improved!

[Damage]

looking forward to it haha

I'll start posting animations on weekends, since that's usually all I work on at that time.

Beat you to it.

[Drymus]

On the plus side, better AI means our partners will be smarter as well.

(I'm looking at you, Aya and Florinia)

[Genesis]

Holy shit it just dawned on me.

Amaria's jewelry key that was given to her by Titania that found it across a lake in a pile of ash is most likely Laura's.

I was following Derogitory Trainer's nuzlocke and seen the part where Laura mentioned she lost her Bracelet in the fire that consumed her parents.

What if Titania had a role in causing the fire?? I know the fire was caused by Charlotte playing with a Vulpix.

But why the fuck did Titania end up with it. This is Reborn and nothing here is a coincedence

[mde2001]

The fire was caused by Sirius, Charlotte just thinks it was her fault.

Sirius said that this would be the second house he burned down for the rings in E15, pretty much confirming that is was him who burned down the house.

I'm not sure why Titania had it I just doubt she burned down the house.

[Genesis]

The fire was caused by Sirius, Charlotte just thinks it was her fault.

Sirius said that this would be the second house he burned down for the rings in E15, pretty much confirming that is was him who burned down the house.

I'm not sure why Titania had it I just doubt she burned down the house.

AH true, I forgot about Sirius, although the question still remains about how Titania ended up with it. Considering she says she was wondering around and seen it across a lake in ashes or something. Pretty weird place to be wondering around...

There is definitely more to her than we know currently

The plot thickens.

[Gaunt]

I do plan on having a field day with the Victory Road puzzle though

Finally good news!

I hope it'll live to the title of "ultimate challenge for a trainer" as it should be.

[Cobalt996]

AH true, I forgot about Sirius, although the question still remains about how Titania ended up with it. Considering she says she was wondering around and seen it across a lake in ashes or something. Pretty weird place to be wondering around...

There is definitely more to her than we know currently

The plot thickens.

You forget her near-wordless correspondence with Team Meteor on Route 1 (North Aventurine Woods), I think.

[Foamy]

So to change the topic, Probopass. What do you guys think might be done with that one? (Unfortunately, my mind is trying to figure out how Sirius's could be used to torture somebody without looking silly.)

I can imagine it looming over the victim ominously, glaring down while it holds its three submagnets to the recipient's head and scrambles their brain function with a torrent of magnetic energy.

But we still run into the inherent problem of Probopass being, well, Probopass.

Because Probopass just looks silly.

AH true, I forgot about Sirius, although the question still remains about how Titania ended up with it. Considering she says she was wondering around and seen it across a lake in ashes or something. Pretty weird place to be wondering around...

There is definitely more to her than we know currently

The plot thickens.

Tanzan Mountain is a location that is teeming with Steel-types. Titania could have been doing some League-related stuff, or she could have been there for another reason entirely. What we do know is that:

-Laura received the Sapphire Bracelet from her mother when she was a child

-Sirius used his Chandelure to burn the Belrose Manse to the ground

-The Bracelet was lost in the house fire, although it was unscathed by the flames

-Titania came upon the charred remains of the Manse, where she discovered the Bracelet in the smoldering rubble

-She then decided to take it, and later opted to give it to Amaria as a gift

How Sirius didn't manage to snag the Bracelet before Titania stumbled upon it, I'll never know.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Foamy

[Lost Lore]

I do plan on having a field day with the Victory Road puzzle though.

Okay I had initially said "well this puzzle is going to be a fun time" and moved on but then I looked at the sentence again and considered-

Is this a pun. Is the victory road puzzle going to involve field effect switching. Because this both makes me cringe at the pun and think it's going to be even more terrifying than I'd initially thought.

(...I could also just be reading too much into this. I probably am. That, or I just gave you ideas. Oh dear.)

[Cobalt996]

I don't really plan the puzzles in advance; I let that happen as I make each area. So who knows! But ideally puzzles would scale in difficulty as the game goes on. I can only do so much though... so we'll see.

I do plan on having a field day with the Victory Road puzzle though.

Balls, hills, and cliffs. Calling it now,

...Oh dear. Ooohhh dear. That's going to be a nightmare, for sure.

EDIT:

inb4 just a small, straight corridor.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Cobalt996

[CMV]

It is going to take shofu three to five episodes at least I reckon.

[bepe]

Okay I had initially said "well this puzzle is going to be a fun time" and moved on but then I looked at the sentence again and considered-

Is this a pun. Is the victory road puzzle going to involve field effect switching. Because this both makes me cringe at the pun and think it's going to be even more terrifying than I'd initially thought.

(...I could also just be reading too much into this. I probably am. That, or I just gave you ideas. Oh dear.)

That would be a pretty cool way to make a puzzle.

[Leon99]

Probably the Chess puzzle for those unfamiliar with it, or Shelly's pre-the current change. Assuming people don't look stuff up anyway. I don't think most of the puzzles in the game are hard, but I'm also a little biased, since I sorta know all the solutions.

I don't really plan the puzzles in advance; I let that happen as I make each area. So who knows! But ideally puzzles would scale in difficulty as the game goes on. I can only do so much though... so we'll see.

Ame -looks around worriedly- its ok, its just a noob who's crying over her mon. as for the puzzle, go ham... as long as its not a variable slider/rotator puzzle like that one at the circus im game. SHOW ME WHAT YA GOT!!!! -stands with feet shoulder width apart crounched down wearing a baseball mit to catch it all-

[TheSpinyOne]

Victory road is going to consist of raising bookcases and pushing crustles in order to access chess puzzles.

[Cobalt996]

You forgot that the puzzle resets if you leave the room, which you need to do to drain lava, so you can plug the drain with a Crustle and drain water into the basin. All of that for 10% of the road.

Or just an empty 3x10 corridor where someone says "What, you thought this'd be hard?"

[Amethyst]

Shoot, they're onto my games.

Ame -looks around worriedly- its ok, its just a noob who's crying over her mon. as for the puzzle, go ham... as long as its not a variable slider/rotator puzzle like that one at the circus im game.

I mean, I do have a still-unused variation of that puzzle that I've been saving...

Today I did a few different things, like change the Iolia Crystal Plugs names to be Crystal Keys instead (because apparently the word 'plug' implies different things to the rest of the world than it does to me), and added special original trainer names to event Pokemon where appropriate (corey's, 7th street, snubbull trainer, etc).

Also, this was this evening's project:

[Damage]

Finally a cafe, I know my character needs to unwind with a nice cold... Do they serve beer?