[Spoilers] E16 Status Discussion

[Gheist]

Please don't implement an IV altering system. Not only would it be ridiculous since IVs are suppose to represent the Pokemons genes. It should be unchangeable after the Pokemon is hatched/encountered. Also I spent like 2 days breeding my 31 IV Milotic. . .and less time breeding my Gengar, Alakazam and Sneasel with 31 in important stats.

It would just suck having all that be for nothing. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who took the time and effort to breed for IVs either.

[rakky]

True, IV stats are genetics, it shouldnt be changed

[Anstane]

Agreed, IV's should be set from the start, as I don't even want to imagine what the heck changing IV's would be. I'm having enough of a horrifying time imagining how changing natures works, especially from a doctor in 7'th Street.

[DemICE]

if thats how you feel about it, then altering IVs by some shady ex-meteor genetist (instead of those new items) could have the side-effect of reducing your pokemon's happiness to 0. just to make you guys feel bad about doing genetic alterations to your 'mon.(which you won't do i guess )

[NickCrash]

Please don't implement an IV altering system. Not only would it be ridiculous since IVs are suppose to represent the Pokemons genes. It should be unchangeable after the Pokemon is hatched/encountered. Also I spent like 2 days breeding my 31 IV Milotic. . .and less time breeding my Gengar, Alakazam and Sneasel with 31 in important stats.

It would just suck having all that be for nothing. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who took the time and effort to breed for IVs either.

So you are against them not because you think it's ethically immoral but because you spent all this time breeding them. That's supporting the right cause for the wrong reasons there. When you breed and crossbreed for moves and IVs you are trying to manipulate their genes. When a scientist comes and does the same exact thing much faster and with much more precision, somehow he becomes the bad guy? It's one thing to protest against genetic manipulation by drawing an analogy with pets in the real world, and a completely different thing to dislike it because of the time lost indulging in the "traditional" methods.

if thats how you feel about it, then altering IVs by some shady ex-meteor genetist (instead of those new items) could have the side-effect of reducing your pokemon's happiness to 0. just to make you guys feel bad about doing genetic alterations to your 'mon.(which you won't do i guess )

As of episode 15 we can get our hands on the TM Frustration. I wouldn't even mind.

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

You could just bring them up to max happiness again with a Blue Moon Ice Cream

[Commander]

I suppose we should go a bit more into the pokemon or moreso what differs between IVs and nature despite both being genetics per say. Here's why the nature changer works the way he does: he can mortify/put a pokemon through very immoral conditions to make it's personality flip. Kind of like seeing how a child can be scarred for life simply by watching someone be murdered in front of their eyes type deal.

IVs are a little bit different since you were born with them. You can't simply have some guy say he can change them easily/randomly as it wouldn't make sense. Yeah, they could make the Pokemon work out, but that's kind of what EVs are for. There is one unusual thing in real life that can be used as a real life base example of making someone stronger without the use of exercising: steroids. That's kind of why I was hinting at a tonic idea to boost a Pokemon's IVs if we should do it. I wouldn't want to randomize them, but the ability to boost them a smudge. Believe me +4 to an IV stat doesn't impact the game all that much but pleases perfectionists.

My personal playstyle is that I could care less about IVs (though I do gripe about being IV screwed hard), but after seeing so many people reset due to poor IVs, and almost all requests in request a mon ask for IVs above 20, it's mostly something for people to think about. Now I'm just repeating myself here a bit.

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Though interestingly enough, I'm just hoping E16 isn't the nightmare of exploration as Episode 14 was when we all got dive. I swear the sheer amount of time I wasted trying to explore everything in those mountains only to be blocked by waterfall. If I have to go through that again with rock climb at the bottom of the lake after 3 years of waiting, I will probably be spamming rage boxes in the status.

[Anstane]

I suppose we should go a bit more into the pokemon or moreso what differs between IVs and nature despite both being genetics per say. Here's why the nature changer works the way he does: he can mortify/put a pokemon through very immoral conditions to make it's personality flip. Kind of like seeing how a child can be scarred for life simply by watching someone be murdered in front of their eyes type deal.

IVs are a little bit different since you were born with them. You can't simply have some guy say he can change them easily/randomly as it wouldn't make sense. Yeah, they could make the Pokemon work out, but that's kind of what EVs are for. There is one unusual thing in real life that can be used as a real life base example of making someone stronger without the use of exercising: steroids. That's kind of why I was hinting at a tonic idea to boost a Pokemon's IVs if we should do it. I wouldn't want to randomize them, but the ability to boost them a smudge. Believe me +4 to an IV stat doesn't impact the game all that much but pleases perfectionists.

My personal playstyle is that I could care less about IVs (though I do gripe about being IV screwed hard), but after seeing so many people reset due to poor IVs, and almost all requests in request a mon ask for IVs above 20, it's mostly something for people to think about. Now I'm just repeating myself here a bit.

Point one: That's kind of the point I've made. I mean it depends on the person's playstyle. Those who only care for results can play as ruthlessly as they want with all the resources given to them, while those who actually care for their Pokemon on a deeper level (That probably sounds wrong but I can't think of a better way to say that) would never allow their Mons to go through treatment like that. I mean we already got a demonstration of what it might be like, thank you Dr. Sigmund.

As for the other points...alright, I will concede that perhaps for those kind of people who require perfection an option to put it in is not bad. My main gripe, I'd say, is that with the options in it, people will assume you will use them to breed/make a perfect team, regardless of your own opinions on whether or not you want to use said resources for ethical or practical reasons.

I for one simply hope that such manipulation will not end up being necessary for end-game and post-game content. As I've personally maintained, it's much more satisfying to fight, try and win with a team of true friends, with all their quirks and flaws, because it's more personal then just going in with a numerically perfect team.

So yeah, from an ethical perspective I'm against, but from a practical standpoint I can't really say no simply because it's that or hours spent breeding and, if not perfect, abandoning the Pokes. Now that I say that, can't tell if that's even worse. So...yeah, as long as it doesn't become borderline mandatory to use it, then sure, might as well have ways to change IV's slightly.

[NickCrash]

IVs are a little bit different since you were born with them. You can't simply have some guy say he can change them easily/randomly as it wouldn't make sense. Yeah, they could make the Pokemon work out, but that's kind of what EVs are for. There is one unusual thing in real life that can be used as a real life base example of making someone stronger without the use of exercising: steroids. That's kind of why I was hinting at a tonic idea to boost a Pokemon's IVs if we should do it. I wouldn't want to randomize them, but the ability to boost them a smudge. Believe me +4 to an IV stat doesn't impact the game all that much but pleases perfectionists.

Steroids are hormones administered to replace testosterone and provide the athletes ways to score higher in their respective fields. The way this works includes stimulating the metabolism, thus needing lots of exercise to get the desired results. The side-effect is the long term effects on the body, since its messing up its endocrinal system and excessive use could result in heart failure or damage in the liver, kidneys and/or reproductive system. So, if such a mechanism were to be implemented, there should be a chance of decreasing the pokemon's HP stat or make it incapable of breeding.

The plus side of a mechanic like this is that it brings casual players to equal footing with those using cheat engine to breed for IVs and moves.

[Imperial]

Cheaters are the exception, you can't balance of the game using cheated pokemons as a reference, even more since there's no online battle. Otherwise why not allow pokemons to have up to 100 IV per stat since cheaters can surely do that ?

But I admit a way to improve IV could be good. In official games you don't see them, most people don't even know they exist, so outside of competitive play people don't care. But in Reborn you see them, sometimes shitty values you can't change. It can be frustrating, even though you can still easily finish the game with 0 IV for all your pokemons. And there's the time between episodes when most people improve their teams and can't improve IV. Even more frustrating. That's why a way to improve IV, though not really needed, can be interesting.

But I'm not sure something like steroids would be suited for that. First it's not definitive, you need to take them regularly. Then you would need a full cocktail of different products to improve several IV. It would give a complex system that would give much more importance to IV which isn't the point.

Someone said IV reflect genes right ? I don't know the current state-of-the-art in the domain of genetic modifications, but I know there's a lot of research to modify human genes (to cure genetical deseases mainly). And I know many of them involve the use of viruses, since viruses naturally change the infected cell's genes to make it produce new viruses. So something like gene therapy to boost a stat could work I think. And in order to keep something fixed to make each pokemon unique, it could replace the psychologist. Good nature are much easier to obtain with soft reset and much easier to breed too. And even though the technology doesn't exist in reality yet, I think it's more realistic to change someone's genes in one session than changing its personnality. Even after years of psychotherapy people don't change that drastically.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Imperial

[colers25]

Otherwise why not allow pokemons to have up to 100 IV per stat since cheaters can surely do that ?

IV's? I doubt it. I've tried to do it with cheat engine but iirc it won't work; not sure whether the variable allows values of this length (iirc all pokemon game values in cheat engine are their base value * 2 + 1, which means the CC value for a max IV is 63. If the variable is assigned as a "byte" type, then 63 is the maximum numerical value it can support)

Also, yes, i am not a very strong man and i knoweth no shame

[FairFamily]

If we're going with IV changing (moral issues and genetics aside) I would like that not only to add positive stat changers but also negative stat changers and that you can target specific IV's. Trick room teams would like to have 0 speed IV's.

[sound of silence]

I'd prefer to have IV increase options available if only to level the playing field for post game PVP battling (heheh, level the playing field, so punny)

[crobatlover91]

IV's? I doubt it. I've tried to do it with cheat engine but iirc it won't work; not sure whether the variable allows values of this length (iirc all pokemon game values in cheat engine are their base value * 2 + 1, which means the CC value for a max IV is 63. If the variable is assigned as a "byte" type, then 63 is the maximum numerical value it can support)

Also, yes, i am not a very strong man and i knoweth no shame

changing IVs using cheat engine is really easy....

[Timber Dragon]

IV boosting? Puh-lease. Back in my day we soft-resetted until we got what we wanted and WE LIKED IT.

[Phi-Bi]

I don't care about IVs although I can see why people care about it. However, easier to change IVs means it's easier to change Hidden Power-type which is nice, I guess.

On a side note, the sidequest is already over halfway~ If Ep. 16 is out in October, that means Ep. 16 is finished in 16 months which reminds me of this post...

Yay! EP16 will be out in 16 years everyone.

Nice to see that the Animations are getting worked on. It's the only thing that really holds back the greatness of Reborn.

I also didn't think of the Music Updates, but now that you mentioned it, I'm excited to see the new music for Reborn City.

[colers25]

changing IVs using cheat engine is really easy....

It is really easy, but as i said, can it be increased above the internal value 63?

[Imperial]

I don't know with cheat engine, but modifying the game's scripts for that shouldn't be hard. But I said that only to say its pointless to take cheats as a reference for the game's balance. I didn't mean to give ideas xD

[PokeFailure]

Why cheat?

Why not work hard and do it the way you're supposed to. I know you're lazy but still.

Catch 30 pokemon to get the IVs/soft reset. Don't subject them to pixelated torture just bcuz you want numbers to be perfect. They can't feel pain tho so...

Should you treat pixelated pokemon like you'd treat your real pets? Would you subject them to borderline torture/steroids/whatever gene editing thing the process is.

Who says pokemon doesn't have harder choices than choosing your starter?

[NickCrash]

I don't know with cheat engine, but modifying the game's scripts for that shouldn't be hard. But I said that only to say its pointless to take cheats as a reference for the game's balance. I didn't mean to give ideas xD

Nobody takes it as a reference. It's mentioned in a single line, whereas all the negative arguments take paragraphs and essays (and multiple comments) above it. Not being able to manipulate something has its own charm. Leave your HP-type to RNGesus.

[DemICE]

@Anstane you must immerse yourself in the game too much.

I can't really feel the need to follow any ethics towards data and pixels, especially when they do not play an active part in the story, or they dont display any personality, but rather just being your pixelous means to progress the game further.

I will let them faint in battle (by enemy, or explosion) for another to take exp or to set up, i will replace old 'mons with stronger ones through breeding or other things, i will use some exclusively as HM Slaves, and i WILL name them, "Slave", i named my Charizard Parasect because he was effin' losing HP during Sun! (because of solar power). I will preserve a poison condition with potions on my Guts user while walking so i can beat an upcoming hard battle easier.

Though as i have stated at this topic, my poke-ethics would be completely different when dealing with living, breathing(most of them at least), conscious beings.

Edited August 30, 2016 by DemICE

[5hift]

Chances are the nitty-gritty content that real die-hard fans like to go into may be added to the game without needing to cheat.

Things like natures, abilities, and EVs now have means of changing them in-game like the Poke-Psychologist on 7th Street, ability capsules and stat-boosting drinks.

I think its pretty ridiculous to get real upset over such things as you literally don't have to do it if you don't want to.

If you ask me, may as well implement ways to easily change features of Pokemon in-game instead of having the players rely on cheats or other unorthodox methods.

Edited August 30, 2016 by 5hift

[Timber Dragon]

@Anstane you must immerse yourself in the game too much.

I can't really feel the need to follow any ethics towards data and pixels, especially when they do not play an active part in the story, or they dont display any personality, but rather just being your pixelous means to progress the game further.

I will let them faint in battle (by enemy, or explosion) for another to take exp or to set up, i will replace old 'mons with stronger ones through breeding or other things, i will use some exclusively as HM Slaves, and i WILL name them, "Slave", i named my Charizard Parasect because he was effin' losing HP during Sun! (because of solar power). I will preserve a poison condition with potions on my Guts user while walking so i can beat an upcoming hard battle easier.

Though as i have stated at this topic, my poke-ethics would be completely different when dealing with living, breathing(most of them at least), conscious beings.

I let my mons faint for a safe setup, or send them out knowing they might faint so I can heal another mon, and I sometimes feel a little bad about it. I suspect that I'd be an awful awful trainer in the real world.

[Zane0144]

I suppose we should go a bit more into the pokemon or moreso what differs between IVs and nature despite both being genetics per say. Here's why the nature changer works the way he does: he can mortify/put a pokemon through very immoral conditions to make it's personality flip. Kind of like seeing how a child can be scarred for life simply by watching someone be murdered in front of their eyes type deal.

IVs are a little bit different since you were born with them. You can't simply have some guy say he can change them easily/randomly as it wouldn't make sense. Yeah, they could make the Pokemon work out, but that's kind of what EVs are for. There is one unusual thing in real life that can be used as a real life base example of making someone stronger without the use of exercising: steroids. That's kind of why I was hinting at a tonic idea to boost a Pokemon's IVs if we should do it. I wouldn't want to randomize them, but the ability to boost them a smudge. Believe me +4 to an IV stat doesn't impact the game all that much but pleases perfectionists.

My personal playstyle is that I could care less about IVs (though I do gripe about being IV screwed hard), but after seeing so many people reset due to poor IVs, and almost all requests in request a mon ask for IVs above 20, it's mostly something for people to think about. Now I'm just repeating myself here a bit.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Though interestingly enough, I'm just hoping E16 isn't the nightmare of exploration as Episode 14 was when we all got dive. I swear the sheer amount of time I wasted trying to explore everything in those mountains only to be blocked by waterfall. If I have to go through that again with rock climb at the bottom of the lake after 3 years of waiting, I will probably be spamming rage boxes in the status.

I've always liked the comparison that IVs are natural born things like long legs or better eyesight. Which is why you can't really change them (and if you did it would indeed be shady). But stuff like that can be bred as well both in pokemon and real life.

[kalzone678]

I personally think the IV boosting shouldn't be added. It COMPLETELY ruins the competitive aspect of the game, and just makes things too easy.

I'm already mad at Game Freak for ruining this, Ame pls don do dis.

P.s It's sooooo satisfying when you complete a perfect IV mon and use it in battle.