New York City Police Force "livid" over proposed police reform measures

[Antilegend]

http://nypost.com/2015/06/29/cops-livid-over-proposed-police-reform-measures/

The city council of New York have proposed changes to the way the NYPD conducts law enforcement, much to the chagrin of the police union representative Pat Lynch.

Thoughts on this? Personally, with the overwhelmingly negative news that have plagued the police force across the United States as of late, I think the big apple leading the way to start a change is a step in the right direction.

[Autumneverlast]

I think that, as usual, this is part of a complex issue affecting the safety of civilians and police both. There are some things there that I'm not sure are really going to endanger those on the police force, especially requiring officers to state who they are at every incident. I'm also seeing an attempt to reduce fiascos like those over the last few years where police step well beyond boundaries that they should have respected, though how successful this will be is unknown.

More than likely after the hullabaloo quiets down though, there won't be much of a change, for the nation or the city.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Autumneverlast

[Maelstrom]

Sounds like making a change just to say they're making a change and placate people. Although it wouldn't be a bad thing if cops had to give 'business' cards with some of their info on the front of it and the complaint department's phone number on the back.

I was given to understand that proportionally necessary force was already part of the system. Are they trying to re-invent the wheel? Some cops just have bad judgement and you have to deal with accordingly.

[Peepeepoopoo]

Move to Canada, our police force is nicer if only by a little bit.

[Antilegend]

Sounds like making a change just to say they're making a change and placate people. Although it wouldn't be a bad thing if cops had to give 'business' cards with some of their info on the front of it and the complaint department's phone number on the back.

I was given to understand that proportionally necessary force was already part of the system. Are they trying to re-invent the wheel? Some cops just have bad judgement and you have to deal with accordingly.

Well, with the overwhelming news the police force across the United States has been receiving in the past few years, I'd imagine a lot of people are growing concerned with how their actions have no virtual consequence. Civillians have been choked to the point of death, shot, punched and kicked, by officers who should be leading by example and upholding the law. There's been several instances where either their union or fellow officers break the very laws they were to uphold, and many crimes committed by police officers go largely unchecked because of it. It was only a matter of time before everybody wanted to see some substantial change to how they can hold their officers accountable.

I think that, as usual, this is part of a complex issue affecting the safety of civilians and police both. There are some things there that I'm not sure are really going to endanger those on the police force, especially requiring officers to state who they are at every incident. I'm also seeing an attempt to reduce fiascos like those over the last few years where police step well beyond boundaries that they should have respected, though how successful this will be is unknown.

This is a huge reason why body cameras were at one time encouraged, and is now slowly becoming the norm. However, a driving concern is when said body camera "malfunctions" at crucial times in an investigation, negating the entire reason for starting to wear them in the first place.

I'm not sure. Is there a reason not to do this? Should this be an issue for officers who supposedly have "nothing to hide"? In a few recent instances, camera phones from civillians have held extremely incriminating evidence against some police force whose police reports are nowhere close to matching what had actually transpired.

Move to Canada, our police force is nicer if only by a little bit.

For now. Toronto's been tasked with equipping their officers with body cameras, so we'll see how that goes. The instances of police brutality and fatalities in the RCMP and local/provincial police departments are staggeringly low, but then again, our country has approximately the same size of population as the state of California alone.

Wasn't Montreal's force protesting something to do with their pension by wearing clown pants to work?

EDIT: Hah. They are. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/rein-in-the-clowns-known-as-the-montreal-police/article25007867/

Edited June 29, 2015 by Antilegend

[Neo]

Of course the cops are livid over it. The moment you "threaten" their free reign over the people they're supposed to protect, they get upset. The NYPD is crooked as fuck, and just about anyone who has spent more than a week in New York can tell you that. Hopefully this is the beginning of an entire sweeping wave of reforms.

[DreamLady]

I'm not sure. Is there a reason not to do this? Should this be an issue for officers who supposedly have "nothing to hide"? In a few recent instances, camera phones from civillians have held extremely incriminating evidence against some police force whose police reports are nowhere close to matching what had actually transpired.

This year, a police officer was caught telling a false account of what happened. He claimed that Scott, the civilian, tried to take his taser. A struggle over the weapon ensued and Scott got shot and died in the struggle. This was the cop's version of events. He stuck with this story for a few days after the incident occurred. Scott's family and friends tried to defend Scott. They said how he was a good person. The cop is backed with the authority of the police department. He didn't need to prove his character. He placed the blame on the dead who couldn't defend himself.

The cop didn't know it, but there was a guy who was there and recorded everything. When the man saw the cop telling his version of events, he knew he had to contact the family and give them the video. He knew the cop was lying. When the video came out, it showed the events were different from what happened. Heck, it showed the cop planting the evidence! He could have gotten away with it and the only person who would know what happened is dead.

It's scary how it's so easy for cops to place total blame on civilians. They can slander our reputation and imply we're law breakers. They don't have to prove their character.

I found a link about Scott. I don't remember the exact article I read that included the man with the video.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/07/3644189/everything-police-said-walter-scotts-death-video-showed-really-happened/

[Peepeepoopoo]

Whenever someone is given a position of power over another, they are more than likely to abuse it. That is human nature at work. You can't be surprised when you find corruption in a city's police force or a province's government, nor can you be surprised when that person or group in a position of power gets upset when their perks are about to be taken away from them.

With the police, it's hard to find a balance in what they can and can't legally do to do their jobs. Give them too much leeway and it's easier to be a dirty cop. Give them too little privilege and they won't be able to protect the law as effectively.

[Hiss13]

All I can say, as a New Yorker myself, is that police reform is definitely welcome. Of course, the problem with police definitely is more than simply the police going overboard on individuals in terms of their attitudes towards civilians. Things like Civil Forfeiture and ticketing quotas also make for a huge problem and are also examples of the police going overboard.

In the end, it would be a small change but I have my doubts that we'll see any appreciable difference and I probably will still end up trying to avoid being anywhere near policemen regardless.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Hiss13

[Antilegend]

Whenever someone is given a position of power over another, they are more than likely to abuse it. That is human nature at work. You can't be surprised when you find corruption in a city's police force or a province's government, nor can you be surprised when that person or group in a position of power gets upset when their perks are about to be taken away from them.

With the police, it's hard to find a balance in what they can and can't legally do to do their jobs. Give them too much leeway and it's easier to be a dirty cop. Give them too little privilege and they won't be able to protect the law as effectively.

I couldn't agree more. However, in the United States, there is nothing in these reforms that would otherwise impact an officers ability to do their job. Pat Lynch, the man from the article I've linked above, has gone on record to say that police officers "fixing tickets" is a courtesy provided by the NYPD should you be lucky enough to be subject to nepotism. It's actually a felony, but who's the judge, right?

This year, a police officer was caught telling a false account of what happened. He claimed that Scott, the civilian, tried to take his taser. A struggle over the weapon ensued and Scott got shot and died in the struggle. This was the cop's version of events. He stuck with this story for a few days after the incident occurred. Scott's family and friends tried to defend Scott. They said how he was a good person. The cop is backed with the authority of the police department. He didn't need to prove his character. He placed the blame on the dead who couldn't defend himself.

The cop didn't know it, but there was a guy who was there and recorded everything. When the man saw the cop telling his version of events, he knew he had to contact the family and give them the video. He knew the cop was lying. When the video came out, it showed the events were different from what happened. Heck, it showed the cop planting the evidence! He could have gotten away with it and the only person who would know what happened is dead.

It's scary how it's so easy for cops to place total blame on civilians. They can slander our reputation and imply we're law breakers. They don't have to prove their character.

I found a link about Scott. I don't remember the exact article I read that included the man with the video.

http://thinkprogress...eally-happened/

Oh yes, I'm very familiar with that story. It's this one, and an abundance of others, that should not only spark outrage as a citizen, but demand a reform and hold those who did this accountable. Becoming a police officers does not place you above the law, and if you use your weapon unnecessarily you should be tried as if you weren't wearing a uniform at all. That isn't a daunting request to make; let the officers be acocuntable for their actions. Seeing victims such as this one gunned down for no good reason is exactly why these reforms need to happen.

If this was the only story, I'd happily play devil's advocate. Very unfortunately, however, it's quite the contrary. In these past two years alone, there have been dozens of weapon use on the job where there was no immediate threat to the officer, or anyone at all for that matter.

[fireflame]

Yeah, the entire culture of policing is centered around protecting the cops at all costs. The entire system is told to protect them, and unfortunately when a fellow cop blows the whistle on them, they are slandered and thrown out of their position and is next to impossible for them to be a cop again. it's a system that is disturbingly close to gang mentality.

[Neo]

Whenever someone is given a position of power over another, they are more than likely to abuse it. That is human nature at work.

Calm down there, Machiavelli.

[Antilegend]

Yeah, the entire culture of policing is centered around protecting the cops at all costs. The entire system is told to protect them, and unfortunately when a fellow cop blows the whistle on them, they are slandered and thrown out of their position and is next to impossible for them to be a cop again. it's a system that is disturbingly close to gang mentality.

It's more of a brotherhood; an "us vs. them" mentality. It seems that the vast majority of cops believe that it's them against the world, and if there isn't unity on their side, then there's total division. There are few cops who don't get caught up in that line of thinking, considering these are the men and women you work with daily. It's hard to "betray" them by being a good cop, or leaving them high and dry when they had a "lapse in judgement".

Bear in mind, these are the people that have sworn to uphold the law and protect the citizens of the city by using the power that's bestowed upon them. Sadly, it seems that it's become more about them against the civillians, rather than working with civillians and working to make a peaceful and meaningful difference.

[TRHStatement]

It's more of a brotherhood; an "us vs. them" mentality. It seems that the vast majority of cops believe that it's them against the world, and if there isn't unity on their side, then there's total division. There are few cops who don't get caught up in that line of thinking, considering these are the men and women you work with daily. It's hard to "betray" them by being a good cop, or leaving them high and dry when they had a "lapse in judgement".

Bear in mind, these are the people that have sworn to uphold the law and protect the citizens of the city by using the power that's bestowed upon them. Sadly, it seems that it's become more about them against the civillians, rather than working with civillians and working to make a peaceful and meaningful difference.