Nhadala Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Ok i feel like i need to start this. Blaziken is too strong, too overpowered, it can sweep things too easily, with Bulk-up and Speed Boost along with High-Jump Kick, Flare Blitz and Brave Bird make it have too much type coverage and base 120 stab moves, one of which doesnt have a severe drawback unless ur cursed by the RNG gods by that 10%. Ive swept 3 gyms with this thing and its starting to feel a little bit ridiculous now, granted 2 of those were against pokemon that i had a type advantage against, but still. I dont know how you guys feel about this, but i feel like Blaziken kind of invalidates some of the difficulty that this game is meant to have. I was sorta scared to make this thread at first because of the reactions that i would get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biboo195 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Ok i feel like i need to start this. Blaziken is too strong, too overpowered, it can sweep things too easily, with Bulk-up and Speed Boost along with High-Jump Kick, Flare Blitz and Brave Bird make it have too much type coverage and base 120 stab moves, one of which doesnt have a severe drawback unless ur cursed by the RNG gods by that 10%. Ive swept 3 gyms with this thing and its starting to feel a little bit ridiculous now, granted 2 of those were against pokemon that i had a type advantage against, but still. I dont know how you guys feel about this, but i feel like Blaziken kind of invalidates some of the difficulty that this game is meant to have. I was sorta scared to make this thread at first because of the reactions that i would get. Actually i agree with you, Blaziken is very powerful. But the thing is, even with his Speed Boost and brute power, he's not gonna last long in a tough fight. His Flare Blitz(+Brave Bird) has recoil damage, and his HJK can take half his HP if you miss. Even more, almost any Super Effective move having at least 80 BP can kill him outright. He's a example of a glasscanon, sp if you let him do his thing (aka setting up), you will get rekt. Edited June 30, 2015 by biboo195 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foamy Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I picked Torchic because Blaziken is my favorite starter by a country mile, but I agree wholeheartedly. There's a reason why this thing is in the Ubers tier, and that's because it can set up and tear teams apart with startling consistency and minimal investment. I've solo'd several of the gyms in this game with an underleveled Blaziken, and it hardly feels satisfying. I've actually been keeping him in the PC ever since I swept Samson with him. Granted, Blaziken without Speed Boost is quite tame - rather underwhelming, actually. Although it probably won't happen, I would totally understand if Ame decided to remove Torchic's and Chimchar's Hidden Abilities from the starters at the beginning of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oracle Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Why remove Iron Fist? It's not nearly as OP as Speed Boost. The only moves it boosts are Mach Punch, Fire Punch (which with the boost reaches 90 BP, noticeably less than Flare Blitz), and Thunder Punch (which hits only as hard as a neutral Close Combat). Edited June 30, 2015 by Oracle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foamy Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Why remove Iron Fist? It's not nearly as OP as Speed Boost. The only moves it boosts are Mach Punch, Fire Punch, and Thunder Punch. No, but Infernape is still an absolute monster. An extra 20% to a STAB priority move and a relevant coverage move is SUPER good. On another note, what did y'all nickname your Blazikens? Mine is named "Capt. Falcon," for obvious reasons. Edited June 30, 2015 by Foamy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oracle Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 That's fair, especially compared to most other starters' DW abilities it certainly is one of the best (arguably second to blaziken) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 No, but Infernape is still an absolute monster. An extra 20% to a STAB priority move and a relevant coverage move is SUPER good. On another note, what did y'all nickname your Blazikens? Mine is named "Capt. Falcon," for obvious reasons. Infernape's really good but at this point in the game Blaze is a better ability than Iron Fist for it. The chance of getting elemental punches on an Infernape if you play the current version is nix, and Mach Punch isn't exactly what I'd call useful when Infernape already hits base 108 speed. I still have it on mine, but I could probably count the number of times I've actually used it post getting Close Combat on one hand. At least with Blaze you can fire off a very powerful kamikaze Flare Blitz. 100% better abilities for other starters (outside of the aforementioned Speed Boost) are Sheer Force on Feraligatr, Contrary on Serperior, Reckless on Emboar, and Protean on Greninja. Debatably even abilities are Chlorophyll on Venusaur, Flash Fire on Typhlosion, and Bulletproof on Chesnaught. So I personally don't think removing Iron Fist Infernape should really even be considered as a possibility. On topic, yes Speed Boost Blaziken is broken, this is very well known but I'm 99% sure it's not getting removed from the early game any time soon because a more important aspect than difficulty is the freedom to pick one's own favorite starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foamy Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Infernape's really good but at this point in the game Blaze is a better ability than Iron Fist for it. The chance of getting elemental punches on an Infernape if you play the current version is nix, and Mach Punch isn't exactly what I'd call useful when Infernape already hits base 108 speed. I still have it on mine, but I could probably count the number of times I've actually used it post getting Close Combat on one hand. At least with Blaze you can fire off a very powerful kamikaze Flare Blitz. 100% better abilities for other starters (outside of the aforementioned Speed Boost) are Sheer Force on Feraligatr, Contrary on Serperior, Reckless on Emboar, and Protean on Greninja. Debatably even abilities are Chlorophyll on Venusaur, Flash Fire on Typhlosion, and Bulletproof on Chesnaught. So I personally don't think removing Iron Fist Infernape should really even be considered as a possibility. On topic, yes Speed Boost Blaziken is broken, this is very well known but I'm 99% sure it's not getting removed from the early game any time soon because a more important aspect than difficulty is the freedom to pick one's own favorite starter. Truuuuuuuue. I forgot how much Infernape's movepool suffers due to Reborn's lack of decent TMs. Although to be fair, Protean Greninja also suffers from that same lack of TMs. That's the exact reason why I feel that Torchic's Hidden Ability won't be removed. Removing one starter's Hidden Ability and no one else's would be awkward at best and upsetting at worst. "So all of the starters can come with their hidden abilities... except this one??? THE COMPLETIONIST IN ME IS CLAWING FRANTICALLY AT THIS TRAVESTY" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Chaos Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 No, but Infernape is still an absolute monster. An extra 20% to a STAB priority move and a relevant coverage move is SUPER good. On another note, what did y'all nickname your Blazikens? Mine is named "Capt. Falcon," for obvious reasons. Torry :s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joltz Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 No, but Infernape is still an absolute monster. An extra 20% to a STAB priority move and a relevant coverage move is SUPER good. On another note, what did y'all nickname your Blazikens? Mine is named "Capt. Falcon," for obvious reasons. FaceKickChic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumneverlast Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I've never actually done a Reborn run with a Blaziken, but my Iron Fist Infernape was nice, mostly due to fire typing that I've never done a playthrough with either. Felt REALLY good to just blatantly sweep through Florinia without even worrying. However, now that I'm nearing the late game, Infernape is turning out far more underwhelming than my Contrary Serperior from a previous run. It's really cool to have priority and fewer weaknesses to fire/ice, but it hasn't really shined the way Serperior did once it learned Leaf Storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega_Ra1der Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Let me tell you, my first run ever had a blaziken but w/o speedboost and actually did average. But I got stuck on aya and my patience tells me no more and I restarted. I realized the true power of this monster in my rejuvenation run where it destroyed 4 out of 6 of the 3rd leader pokemon and one of them was the ace. Overall, I think torchic should have a lower chance getting a HA. Same for OP starters except torterra because it only saved it from the hax but minor anyways. Edited June 30, 2015 by OmegaRa1der Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biboo195 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) The thing is you can't exactly stop Blaziken's Speed Boost unless you remove it straight from the game. Since even if you remove the chance of Torchic having Speed Boost when you're picking a starter, people can just use 1 of the early Ability Capsules to get that. And if you also remove those capsules, then it'll be unfair to the people who didn't choose Torchic. The only thing you can change is just add more water/psychic/earth type trainers in the game, just to make it a little bit harder for Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken users. Edited June 30, 2015 by biboo195 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostelle Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 dondon's reading this post as I type this and he's probably doing into detail about it so I don't want to ninja him too much, but Blaziken has trouble with a decent amount of fights in the game. Corey, Aya, Radomus, (one of the Cain fights I think.) And it needs support for Samson, and there's no way Blaziken can solo the new gym leader, who's name I won't say because I think the forum is still in spoiler-lock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Blaziken can still solo more boss fights than any other starter, though. I personally do not want to see Blaziken or Speed Boost removed because it's a super important Pokemon for the speedrun route, and any other option is less reliable and/or more tedious. The most annoying thing about using Blaziken in the speedrun route is that Wide Lens cannot be reliably found and a lot of strategies rely on HJK to be done quickly, which basically means that the game can't be done in a single session (although there are a handful earlygame battles that are potentially run-ending and Blaziken and Diggersby require amazing IVs plus a perfect nature and their HAs so it's not like that would be a great idea to begin with). The idea to reduce the frequency of Torchic's HA is bad because people will just reset for Speed Boost or use the Ability Capsule near the Mosswater Factory. The only issue with having a clearly superior Pokemon available as a starter is that it marginalizes Reborn's philosophy of always axing OP Pokemon (especially when they're not OP). It's hard to justify good Pokemon and moves not being available early when the best Pokemon is available from the very start. However, I don't really like the concept of always axing OP Pokemon because it's not like Blaziken is an auto-win in most difficult battles. Edited June 30, 2015 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaunt Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 The only thing you can change is just add more water/psychic/earth type trainers in the game, just to make it a little bit harder for Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken users. And all the other people who chose a less powerful fire mon, no thanks. On topic: Blaziken is OP and everyone knows that but it will (probably) not be removed (as already mentioned) because it's a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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