[OOC] Pokemon: Sins of Avalon

[Sutoratosu]

Quite honestly, the reason it's set up like described with the choice of 1 mythic and one psuedo or 2 psuedos is because that while mythics and psuedos might technically be right around the same power level, Mythics were still supposed to be pokemon considered as being "Above" Regular mons, but yet were still easily trumped by the gods. One could compare them to greek demigods in a way; half of either world, neither completely normal, but yet not awesomely powerful or godly enough to be declared anything to right home about without actually doing something notable. It should also be noted that the majority of mythics have special abilities none of the psuedos come close to possessing (They're mostly just famous for their raw destructive/ combat power and really not much else. hell, with a psuedo legend, if you just took off 70 points from their bst they really wouldn't have anything too too special to make them continue to stand out at that point)

The idea was basically that the heirchy is supposed to be Normal Mons--> Psuedo Legends---> Mythical Pokemon---> The Gods

And while yes, there are only 7 psuedo legends, there are only seven slots. And I was hoping that the people I will chose, in addition to having sufficient writting skill, will also have enough common sense to avoid Fanboy Syndrome and realize that Psuedo legends are not the end all and be all in battle and that every mon has it's own use and possibilities...

so yeah... I'm really quite on the fence about allowing them to just be lumped together because of everything above. That and the fact that the existance of Mythical mons is actually something to be explained in the lore revealed throughout the story, so lumping them all together will very much cheapen my overall plan for their origin story

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

It mostly give me breathing room is the only reason i am asking. ((cause I actually looked... One Pseudo fits but it is a heeeeeeeeell of a stretch.)) and I don't want to duplicate like a bunch of Pseudos XD. Cause with a possible two slot limiter... we could end up seeing them all the flippin' time and it will probably get maaaad boring.

[Sutoratosu]

It mostly give me breathing room is the only reason i am asking. ((cause I actually looked... One Pseudo fits but it is a heeeeeeeeell of a stretch.)) and I don't want to duplicate like a bunch of Pseudos XD. Cause with a possible two slot limiter... we could end up seeing them all the flippin' time and it will probably get maaaad boring.

Well, to remedy it, I can always simply control the pseudo encounters by only providing the players encounters with pseudo species whom I think would fit that pc from data acquired over my observation in the story, but basically leave the mythic option up to their choosing.

And then there are mons such as Arcanine, Kingdra, Gyarados, Togekiss, Volcorona, etc who aren't quite at the level of psuedos and mythics, but still stand out among normal mons with both lore and bst. Those can be options to be considered as well

And the psuedo/ mythic encounters won't even start until everyone has around 4 party members anyway.

And Pseudos and mythics won't be as almighty as they're often portrayed as. If you fight smart and know your types, you can easily take out one with a normal mon thats at the same level in terms of strength and experience.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Oh I know lol. It's just with me theme limit is kinda bad for me... and probably only me XD. I figured out how to work around it though so... no issue there. ((also... are Megas to take the slot of one or are the Mega stones completely separate from that count?))

[Sutoratosu]

megas are completely seperate. Everyone will get the choose of one mega stone regardless of if they have mythics of not. and I might actually start giving them out before i do psuedos and mythics depending on how things go. otherwise I'll save them for some plot crucial moment.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Maaaaaaaaaan and I don't even plan on using one...

[Chevaleresse]

And while yes, there are only 7 psuedo legends, there are only seven slots. And I was hoping that the people I will chose, in addition to having sufficient writting skill, will also have enough common sense to avoid Fanboy Syndrome and realize that Psuedo legends are not the end all and be all in battle and that every mon has it's own use and possibilities...

i do have one issue with this particular statement and your approach in general. You say that you want people to realize that Pseudo-legends are not the clearly superior options people treat them as (they're not,) but by setting such harsh restrictions on their usage you are basically doing exactly what you are trying to prevent. You're saying that "no, they're too strong, you can't use them" while also saying no they aren't strong.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

^ this.

[Sutoratosu]

i do have one issue with this particular statement and your approach in general. You say that you want people to realize that Pseudo-legends are not the clearly superior options people treat them as (they're not,) but by setting such harsh restrictions on their usage you are basically doing exactly what you are trying to prevent. You're saying that "no, they're too strong, you can't use them" while also saying no they aren't strong.

You could say that. but at the same time, that's honestly just taking one single statement out of a far larger conversation and interpreting it without any real context.

Anyway question, are Pseudo-Legends/Mythical Interchangeable?

Because Pseudo-Legends are literally like 7 mons ((which most of them are way more powerful than Weaker Legends.)) so not sure if it expressly is allowing 1 of each or two Psuedos.

The main reason I am asking... my character can easily make use of Mythical Pokemon ((as they fit my theme which I personally am adhering too since it isn't as strict as a mono.)) but can't make any use of the Psuedo-Legends that exist at least to my own knowledge. I just find it sorta silly that one can have two Pseudos, but not two mythical when more Mythical Class mons are actually way weaker. ((unless we are talking Tao Trio, and maybe some of the Force of Nature Trio... but really only Landorus is much more significantly more powerful.)). But... eh. It'd just be helpful for me to have 2 Mythical mons rather than any Pseudos since I really can't fit a Psuedo in my team at all.

The other reason I'm asking... is if to have a more powerful mon we are basically required to have a Pseudo Legend... that we are most likely going to see a hell of a lot of repeats considering that Psuedo-Legends literally number 7... there are only seven of them in existence. why not just lump them into the Mythical Pool ((which they are stronger than a majority of anyway.)) and call it a day?

I dunno, just a thought cause it seems a bit weirdly set-up right now... if I am correct in saying that we can have 2 Pseudos, 1 Pseudo and 1 Mythical, or just 1 Mythical and not have another. Just asking for clarity's sake.

Quite honestly, the reason it's set up like described with the choice of 1 mythic and one psuedo or 2 psuedos is because that while mythics and psuedos might technically be right around the same power level, Mythics were still supposed to be pokemon considered as being "Above" Regular mons, but yet were still easily trumped by the gods. One could compare them to greek demigods in a way; half of either world, neither completely normal, but yet not awesomely powerful or godly enough to be declared anything to right home about without actually doing something notable. It should also be noted that the majority of mythics have special abilities none of the psuedos come close to possessing (They're mostly just famous for their raw destructive/ combat power and really not much else. hell, with a psuedo legend, if you just took off 70 points from their bst they really wouldn't have anything too too special to make them continue to stand out at that point)

The idea was basically that the heirchy is supposed to be Normal Mons--> Psuedo Legends---> Mythical Pokemon---> The Gods

And while yes, there are only 7 psuedo legends, there are only seven slots. And I was hoping that the people I will chose, in addition to having sufficient writting skill, will also have enough common sense to avoid Fanboy Syndrome and realize that Psuedo legends are not the end all and be all in battle and that every mon has it's own use and possibilities...

so yeah... I'm really quite on the fence about allowing them to just be lumped together because of everything above. That and the fact that the existance of Mythical mons is actually something to be explained in the lore revealed throughout the story, so lumping them all together will very much cheapen my overall plan for their origin story

It mostly give me breathing room is the only reason i am asking. ((cause I actually looked... One Pseudo fits but it is a heeeeeeeeell of a stretch.)) and I don't want to duplicate like a bunch of Pseudos XD. Cause with a possible two slot limiter... we could end up seeing them all the flippin' time and it will probably get maaaad boring.

Well, to remedy it, I can always simply control the pseudo encounters by only providing the players encounters with pseudo species whom I think would fit that pc from data acquired over my observation in the story, but basically leave the mythic option up to their choosing.

And then there are mons such as Arcanine, Kingdra, Gyarados, Togekiss, Volcorona, etc who aren't quite at the level of psuedos and mythics, but still stand out among normal mons with both lore and bst. Those can be options to be considered as well

And the psuedo/ mythic encounters won't even start until everyone has around 4 party members anyway.

And Pseudos and mythics won't be as almighty as they're often portrayed as. If you fight smart and know your types, you can easily take out one with a normal mon thats at the same level in terms of strength and experience.

I do not feel as though I was being self contradictory when one actually takes the full context of that entire convo me and hukuna had into consideration, the highlighted sectors of which especially so.

but by setting such harsh restrictions on their usage you are basically doing exactly what you are trying to prevent. You're saying that "no, they're too strong, you can't use them" while also saying no they aren't strong.

Again, context.

From what I can tell, the entire talk was started over a few concerns about variety concerning psuedo legends because of the rather limited number that count as such. The statement you're raising red flags about was not meant to contradict previous conceptions.

The harsh restrictions are not because Pseudos are all of a sudden "Too Powerful" and they must be kept as far away from the player base for as long as possible, even though I clearly stated that they're overly hyped and a normal mon with a good super effective move could handle one.

The restrictions; IE, only starting to give them out once 4 pokemon are already in all the players parties, choosing which Psuedo I feel would best suit the PC's personality, having it be set by default that the limit be 1 pseudo and 1 mythical mon, are more for the sake of ensuring variety and the fewest number of possible, if any, repeats so that people don't have a bunch of the same mon.

Then there's also the matter of acknowledging the fact that yes, there is some kernal of truth, statistically, that they're a bit higher up on the ladder compared to other most of the common species, not nearly as much as most people choose to believe, but still a bit. Otherwise, I wouldn't be restricting them at all.

And yes, one could continue to argue that I'm being contradictory in the logic here, that none of these restrictions are necessary because if I'm the one picking the players based on variables such as skill and experience that I should not need to worry about such things as this in the first place, so on and so forth. And perhaps such arguments have a point, but In my eyes, I'm just trying to be cautious with things here.

And I would far rather be guilty of the crime of being just a little bit overcautious from time to time, than be guilty of making some massive oversight that could've easily been avoided with more careful steps and planning, but wasn't because I didn't care enough to take the time to sit down and use some proper foresight on the matter-That's just something which in my eyes is absolutely unacceptable of a host

[Felicity]

You'll really need to step out of those comfort zones at some point, I'm telling ya... it's actually kinda fun once you get past the initial shock factor of what awaits outside your own little bubble. I'm honestly glad Dobby convinced me to try it long ago.

Damn straight! Which is why I am not retracting Nikkis gender. Need to write dem women.

Avalon is mentioned in Arthurian Legend. I think it's mentioned as the place where King Arthur's grave is.

And I can't decide between going mono or not.

Which is why I'm very interested. Arturian legend is p much the biggest reason I like my country.

Avalon is a bit more involved than that Chim. It is also the place where Caliburn ((or better known as Excalibur.)) was forged. ANd...there is a lot more that varies from retelling to retelling of the tale.

Excalibur = A superweapon the bad guys/Morally Grey guys are chasing JS

[Darvan Korematsu]

I'd like to petition this out in asking if we could instead dump the idea of having any legendaries and pseudos altogether. Instead, the idea of mythical common Pokemon (i.e - Arcanine, Volcarona, Ninetales, Lucario, etc.) floats more comfortably to me. I already dumped the notion of using a pseudo, and Strat kinda helped me realize there were better options. To me, I understand that pseudos and legends already just have that placebo effect of just POSSIBLY being included into our party. Granted, Strat could nerf them, but at the end of the day, I think it defeats the purpose of having such a Pokemon. This is in Stratos' own words "where the anime messed up" and not the games. BSTs should be irrelevant. (I mean when a Pikachu defeats a Dragonite, in the games it is irrelevant). Of course he's giving us options later on, but I believe most people might vouch for one. I certainly will if given the chance.

My point: I feel like legends and pseudos aren't something to just toy with, where I think it'll make smallish Mary Sues out of us. And the concerning the "character fitting" legends: there are other non-legendary options. Someone said Darkrai would fit their character perfectly. There's other viable options for what Darkrai represents, in forms such as Zoroark and Gengar.

I'd just think it'd be easier without legends or pseudos in the story, and leave it to NPCs.

[K_H]

I vote to Veto the above Statement. it simply makes a lot more sense to just have the current system Stratos has in place.

Edited July 17, 2015 by K_H

[Sutoratosu]

I'd like to petition this out in asking if we could instead dump the idea of having any legendaries and pseudos altogether. Instead, the idea of mythical common Pokemon (i.e - Arcanine, Volcarona, Ninetales, Lucario, etc.) floats more comfortably to me. I already dumped the notion of using a pseudo, and Strat kinda helped me realize there were better options. To me, I understand that pseudos and legends already just have that placebo effect of just POSSIBLY being included into our party. Granted, Strat could nerf them, but at the end of the day, I think it defeats the purpose of having such a Pokemon. This is in Stratos' own words "where the anime messed up" and not the games. BSTs should be irrelevant. (I mean when a Pikachu defeats a Dragonite, in the games it is irrelevant). Of course he's giving us options later on, but I believe most people might vouch for one. I certainly will if given the chance.

My point: I feel like legends and pseudos aren't something to just toy with, where I think it'll make smallish Mary Sues out of us. And the concerning the "character fitting" legends: there are other non-legendary options. Someone said Darkrai would fit their character perfectly. There's other viable options for what Darkrai represents, in forms such as Zoroark and Gengar.

I'd just think it'd be easier without legends or pseudos in the story, and leave it to NPCs.

Eh screw it...

this whole controversy on the policy with pseudos and mythic legends is obviously not going to lay down and die, so at this point I might as well just save the trouble and take Darvan's suggestion; get rid of it altogether so that it can stop detracting focus from things that actually matter in the RP.

Guess I'll simply take a page from Reborn's methodology over the planned system.

[Felicity]

I'd say no to that Darv. The pokemon exist, can't deny that. If someone wants to use them, so be it. That's the freedom the games gave and the anime exemplifies this with the "Caught" legends we see. Point in case, the first Battle frontier fight ash had, Charizard Vs Articuno.

Furthermore, power levels really will be irrelevant, which is why I felt comfortable going with the partner I did. RP battling is different to Pokebattling and even then, Legends aren't perfect. If anything Pseudos are the bigger threat but we have to consider the serious weaknesses most Pseudos have in that case. The laws of the very game cripple most of them. Almost all of the pseudos bar Goodra and Metagross have quad weaknesses. That seriously hampers them.

The only issue for having them in the party was dealt with immediately in Strats tactic: They're Rare As all Fuck. Simple, we probs one see any for ages...

But if Strat says, Strat says. Simple

[K_H]

this whole controversy on the policy with pseudos and mythic legends is obviously not going to lay down and die, so at this point I might as well just save the trouble and take Darvan's suggestion; get rid of it altogether so that it can stop detracting focus from things that actually matter in the RP.

Before you do that, at least take a vote.

[Sutoratosu]

Before you do that, at least take a vote.

No. I don't even know for certain who is going to be chosen yet because I'm still waiting for applications and haven't begun selection yet, so how can holding a phantom vote where probably about half or so of those involved will end up not in the thing it effects possibly be justified?

That's like if a group of people were to board a boat, and the captain asked them to decide among themselves where they wanted to be taken, and then afterwards he told half of them to get off because there isn't enough room, meanwhile the other half still on board is still going to be affected and subjected to the outcome of a poll that affects only HALF OF THOSE WHO FREAKING CAST A VOTE. That is not how democracy is supposed to work. So no vote on this, it's just a judgement call.

And again, this is exactly what I was talking about- it's obvious this is going to keep raising concerns and controversy and needless back and forth. I thought I had the system all in check to be able to allow it, but quite honestly I just don't want to keep hearing debates about this one single thing that really holds next to no importance at the end of the day given that if psuedos would've been allowed at all, they wouldn't have come up till late in the story and wouldn't have any real lasting impact on the plot or setting whatsoever.

So yeah. Enough. I just dumping the idea altogether and taking a lesson from the playbook of Pokemon Reborn instead.

I'm simply going to bump up the degree of Rarity to whole 'nother level and be done with this, and hopefully put this discussion to bed for good and for all.

[Darvan Korematsu]

...Wow. Didn't expect that to catch fire that quickly, or even any result. I actually did pull from Amethyst's playbook on pseudos. Simple: she gave us only one, and even then a meticiously circumstancial series of events needed to be trigged, it's easy to kill, and has a catch rate of practically nil.

[Felicity]

I'm fine either way. I plan to use a variety of non-meta powerhouses ((Provided I'm even in)).

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Wow... if I knew this was going to get this out of hand I would have never said anything.

[Felicity]

#BlameSensei

#Is#BlameSenseiBetterThan#FreeHukunaHugs?

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Considering that I don't like Hashtags.... Not much no.

[K_H]

#Yes#BlameSenseiIsMuchBetterThan#FreeHukunaHugs.

[Darvan Korematsu]

After seeing a lot of TL;DR's on this matter I thought it'd be best to see if we could just shut it down all together. I have nothing more to say about the policy for now.

EDIT: Sorry Sensei this is what happens when you have a third-party resolution like me come in.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Darvan Korematsu

[Sutoratosu]

Wow... if I knew this was going to get this out of hand I would have never said anything.

Don't get the wrong idea, sensei.

And stop blamin' Hukuna you all

no one individual triggered this, I'm just feeling a bit frustrated at the moment that folks were starting to get so fixated on one single thing that, compared to all the other work and thought and effort I have put into trying to make this something interesting that could live up to the mission that inspired it in the first place, is really pointless because it was more of just an added on extra than a main feature of the work.

It's kinda like how I imagine a game developer team would feel if they put a crap ton of time into making a world and the lore and thinking up and programming gameplay, and then when it releases, what are people talking about? not the meat of the game, not the main things, but instead the focus is for some reason on something like the pallete choice on a certain random enemy or something incredibly minor such as that.

But yeah. Let's all just drop the conversation here... leave it all in the past where it belongs.

Now...I beleive we were right in the middle of decoding the many clues I left...

[Felicity]

So, no Hashtags...

Would art be better?

#SmoothSegue