Hearthstone V2

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

It's also not been a top tier deck constantly in every meta either. It tends to be a decent contender but it rarely if ever has gone up to tier 1, a.k.a top tier. It's also been a more 2nd tier deck. It's good but it's hardly broken due to the fact that it's so slow that most mid-ranges can outpace it. When mid-range is strong Control Warrior is weak as hell. It's gotten a bit rougher as well with the nerf to Execute ((it's only 2 mana but that's actually... relevant since it makes combo'ing it cost more. COmbo'ing with Slam 3 mana, basically going to use your whole turn on turn 4 and 5 now for sure. With Ravaging Ghoul, it is 5 mana. It's heftier than it seems.)) It's more often a tournament deck than it is a ladder deck unless it counters a super popular deck a.k.a extreme aggro as the weapons allow Control Warrior to keep the board clear in the early unlike other control decks that struggle a bit with stabilizing in the early. 

 

It's usually just solid. It's never been the op op deck. It's never been THE deck to beat throughout all of HS. There's alwyas something higher up there defining the meta, something better. It's just a reliable game-plan and deck. It's Consistency is high and it often is why it lands in the area where it's always played. It's a backbone of a meta, not a meta definer.

 

Also as a note Ragnar... it's not really easy to say that now of all times. We're only a few days in to Mean Streets, the meta has had NO TIME to settle yet so there's no way to say that Control Warrior has 0 place in it. It's impossible to say it's entirely outclassed right now just cause we don't know the full of the landscape yet. We've got inklings and ideas but decks are still refining and sharpening themselves and finding what works etc etc... SO it's hard to say. Like for example Zoo was stupid strong for awhile right at the onset of the last Expac. It quickly dropped off as the meta refined.

[Shamitako]

So I like Priests. Priests got buffed. I will probably still only play super gimmicky decks because I'm silly. But I'm happy anyways

 

Still sad I couldn't get the lady priest, RIP

 

Am I the only one who thinks the 1-cost card that buffs Paladin's hands is both super neat and really annoying to play against?

[Anstane]

The idea is nice, yeah, and I agree that it can get quite annoying to fight against. (9/9 Tirion anyone?)

 

Indeed, as Priest is my favorite class, I am really glad that they got good cards, especially after the whole Purify fiasco during ONiK.

 

'tis a shame I don't have most of ONiK, otherwise I'd be able to use Netherspite Historians and Book Wyrms in my Dragon Priest deck...

[Tartar]

6 hours ago, Ragnar said:

Actually you don't have to worry about control war anymore unless someone builds a good one, the standard kill'em control warrior is dead in this format, their stacking of massive armor, their board removal and their golden monkey win condition isn't gonna cut it anymore in this new meta. Imo, it's being outclass by Reno warlock and Raza/Reno priest, they're are the better control decks at the moment. Handbuff paladin, Jade druid and midrange jade shaman are pretty nice too. And priest just got a massive buff with a lot of good cards, like dragonfire potion and that 5/6 dragon steal a card.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you're right, and that it'll stay that way. The problem is that the deck always makes a resurgence. And I'm pretty certain that the current Taunt-Warrior will slowly develop into a more control'ish direction. 

The thing I dislike about the deck isn't the fact that it's strong or oppressive, just that games can drag out past the 10-minute mark when playing against the deck. That's what I dislike about the deck. 

 

 

And on a sidenote, I've been having lots of fun lately with Miracle Jade Druid. Summoning +10 atk Jade Golems can be so satisfying. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Tartar

[Anstane]

Funny, I actually prefer slower control games. I dunno, they just feel so much more satisfying then "SMOrc all face" decks. Hence why Priest is my favorite class 

[Tartar]

1 hour ago, Anstane said:

Funny, I actually prefer slower control games. I dunno, they just feel so much more satisfying then "SMOrc all face" decks. Hence why Priest is my favorite class 

The problem is that as someone who doesn't have a lot of time to play, I can only dedicate around 2-3 hours a week at most to play. Therefore in meta's where games last longer than 5-6 minutes I have a hard time completing all quests for the given week in the time-frame.

 

Though otherwise many of my most memorable games were drawn out control/midrange matchups. 

[Shamitako]

I don't mind long games. But I do mind slow opponents. I usually take my turn between 15 and 30 seconds and it drives me nuts to face people who take 45-60 seconds for every turn. Occasionally needing to think about something is fine, but most of the time my opponents total time will be two or three times mine when a game ends

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

 

23 hours ago, Tartar said:

Control Warrior is probably the deck I hate to play against the most. 

 

And the main problem is that it will always stick around, since all the core cards of the control warrior deck are in the classic set. I deeply hope that they'll nerf it, because it's been a top-tier deck in every meta since the beginning of the game. 

 

6 hours ago, Tartar said:

I hope you're right, and that it'll stay that way. The problem is that the deck always makes a resurgence. And I'm pretty certain that the current Taunt-Warrior will slowly develop into a more control'ish direction. The thing I dislike about the deck isn't the fact that it's strong or oppressive, just that games can drag out past the 10-minute mark when playing against the deck. That's what I dislike about the deck. 

And not liking a deck cause it drags out games is fine, but... like you were calling for nerfs on a deck that you just admitted isn't oppressive or overpowered.

 

Like if you're going to posit an opinion at least be consistent. You were just saying it was a top tier threat in every meta and calling for a nerf, but then say it's neither strong nor oppressive which is you know... the opposite of that. So, why nerf it then? Nerfing things unnecessarily is extremely bad for meta health. Especially after a deck did just got hit ((the Execute nerf.)). Even if it's a minor nerf it still is one as I pointed out earlier. But random nerfs to backbone decks is VERY VERY bad in a meta since it just makes the warp even bigger. Cause if Control Warrior, a consistent run of the mill performer is suddenly weaker that means the bar on control lowers making all other archetypes shift in power level. Not to mention if there's a high tier deck that is quelled by Control Warrior or at least held in check by it nerfing Control warrior instead of the problem makes the problem worse. 

 

Like I get not liking a deck. Trust me I do, but don't try and justify a personal dislike of a deck by saying it should be nerfed on a meta reason. Control Warrior hardly needs or deserves a nerf. Control Decks struggle enough as is in HS, and have never ever piloted the meta other than maybe Freeze Mage back in beta. ((but Freeze Mage isn't what I consider true control and is more stall combo deck tbh.))

 

37 minutes ago, KosherKitten said:

I don't mind long games. But I do mind slow opponents. I usually take my turn between 15 and 30 seconds and it drives me nuts to face people who take 45-60 seconds for every turn. Occasionally needing to think about something is fine, but most of the time my opponents total time will be two or three times mine when a game ends

Ye my turns tend to be fast on average unless it's a thinking turn or I need to be like "What's optimal here?" and those happen more the higher on ladder I am. But ye... there's times were DAMN do people take forever. I mostly hate turn one ropes... cause the hell you thinking about turn one my dude? 

 

On favourite class note, Shaman is still mine. ((nad I liked it prior to the Meta of Shamans, bout fuking time they weren't trash tier though.)) What can I say, I'm a simple man. I enjoy throwing fucking lighting at shit from on high while I punch them in the face. It's great.~ I tend to dig it's more mid-rangey centric style as Mid-range is my preferred deck style as it's a little defnesive, a little aggressive. It's not full out aggression like aggro and but it's not as passive as control styles, making me enjoy the mix. I tend more towards mid-rangey styles so I tend to run Druid and well I did run Hunter but Mid-range Hunter at least was totally ded by the Call of the Wild Nerf. Maybe it'll see resurgence in Mean Streets though due to the more mid-rangey valuey way that Grimy Goons cards work.

[Tartar]

8 minutes ago, Hukuna the Undying said:

Like I get not liking a deck. Trust me I do, but don't try and justify a personal dislike of a deck by saying it should be nerfed on a meta reason. Control Warrior hardly needs or deserves a nerf. Control Decks struggle enough as is in HS, and have never ever piloted the meta other than maybe Freeze Mage back in beta. ((but Freeze Mage isn't what I consider true control and is more stall combo deck tbh.))

 

 

Oh, it's also strong and oppressive, in some metas, in others not so much. But that wasn't the point of my post. I apologise if my words were a bit conflicting, it was not my intention. Let me explain my point of view. 

 

 I want to nerf the deck because it drags the game in a direction I don't like. The Control Warrior archetype is all about drawing the game out till fatigue and winning the game through attrition. This in and of itself wouldn't be bad, were matches shorter than the 10-minute average these games tend to be. If any other deck (like if Freeze Mage was more viable) was equally viable I'd level the exact same complaint against those. To me, Hearthstone is at its best in the early- and mid-game, and falls short in the late-game topdeck wars that result from  attrition decks. 

 

And this is the problem, the core cards that facilitate this strategy are in the core set, meaning that Control Warrior will come back time and time again, something I do not want. 

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I mean such is the way of cards games, things are strong some metas, weak others. Control as I said has never really been thus in Hearthstone other than in maybe beta, but combo decks were much more powerful.

 

I respect that though cause I get ya in some regards, But I don't really agree with nuking a playstyle out of existence just cause it's not one you like to play against etc or dislike in how it's a thing. Control Decks of that type are always going to be a thing it's just the natural cycle of TCG, and taking that archetype out of the equation isn't good. Control decks fill a certain slot in a meta and are pretty important to overall meta health. A lot of styles should be present in any one given meta just just a few. I feel like there's a lot of interesting late game things that can happen etc and that control decks are very interesting even though I don't typically play them. ((however I used to run Freeze Mage a lot, which imo is more a combo deck not a control deck, it doesn't stall like control warrior does, it's not like Concede Mage))

 

While I agree a bit with you in the fact that maybe right now it's a bit too stally I feel that due to cards like Elise Starseeker moreso than any of the backbone cards in the base set. Even without the base set toolkit, Control Warrior would literally always be a thing. There's always going to be big stompy dudes that as a Warrior with that hero power you're going to try and stall out the game to get to playing. Warrior's Hero Power etc entirely endears it to palying as a control deck as it's hero power is extremely slow. Even Priest's isn't as slow cause it can be used for tempo plays by using Auchani with it or other similar things. It's why a lot of the other warrior decks will run Sir FInley, in an effort to change their hero power to something much more useful to them than Armor Up.

 

It's just no matter what Warrior will always have a slant towards control. Will it always be it's more powerful style? Probably not, if Pirate Warrior is any indication. But, remember, a game needs to not only cater to other styles, other styles kinda... need to exist to keep a meta healthy. If every single deck period was mid-range... well... people would find THE deck and only play that deck period cause it was better than everything else. Having different style makes match-ups more dynamic and actually allows a lot more wiggle room and creativity. ((though it may seem at times like there's none to do just how... refined HS lists get. The amount of resoruces out there jsut make it really easy.))

 

Let's jsut say, Warrior is nowhere NEAR what pre-nerf Druid was... a.k.a it ran nearly all basic and classic set cards because it's base set was so strong that old Mid-range Druid basically never changed other than a card or two and it's flex tech spots from the beginning of Naxx until pretty much right before Whispers of the Old Gods. 

 

Let's jsut say this, if the fatigue mechanic is in the game... why not use it? It is clearly within the game as an intended mechanic. Therefore decks that want to use this strategy and take this approach to the game are within the game's design space. Just cause you dislike them or think it's not where HS's strengths lie doesn't mean those decks should be nerfed into oblivion. It's A. Shortsighted as hell and does a lot more damage to a meta then you think. and B. It's... kinda an extremely selfish mindset. ((which by the way is TOOOOOOOOOTALLY OKAY. Not judging ya on that merit so long as you're not going to stright up deny it's your opinion etc...)) just like don't pretend it's cuase of a meta concern when it's the case.

 

I mean, I hate aggro decks. I defs want to see them nerfed into oblivion cause I ahte palying against them. But, in the cases where these decks aren't oppressive and stifling a meta... ((and it's toxic to said meta as a result.)), I realize that it's not going to happen and it SHOULDN'T happen. Because random nerfs to things that aren't doing that... hurt the game a lot more than they help. Like as a note, I still think that SHaman's nerfs before Mean Streets were much to weak with how oppressively strong Mid-range shaman was. And this is my favourite deck. lol. It's jsut like... so long as that's realized, cool beans~

[nepeta100]

so ungoro has been out for a week and I was curious about how peoples opinions of the expansion are?

[Zarc]

well : 

 

- war pirates is always broken

- hunter is back 

- you can OTK with quest mage 

- elementary shaman and warrior quest are good.

 

 

conserning myself i troll the ladder with my astral communion kill T3 deck  ( with epic luck )

[Dreamy]

56 minutes ago, nepeta100 said:

so ungoro has been out for a week and I was curious about how peoples opinions of the expansion are?

 

I think there's good class and deck diversity, and lots of cards with fun and interesting mechanics. however because most of the cards that you can build around have high dust cost, as F2P with low dust amount, I can't really just try out new stuff for the fun of it yet, I sorta have to wait and see if something is decent first, so I don't waste all of my slow-earned dust.

[Zarc]

yeah now you can see many different decks on ladder , it make a change from always have war pirates , dragon priest and reno lock.

[Anstane]

That might be the case, but, from what I heard (Haven't played Standard much yet because prohibitively expensive due to the quests being legendary), Quest Rogue is kind of broken and is dominating the meta. And the best counter for that? Freaking Pirate Warrior.

[Zarc]

rogue quest is annoying , especially when you can play it T4 or T5 :/

 

 

i don't know play rogue , guess it's time to test it

[Tartar]

@Zarc From what the statistics say, it actually seems that Rogue isn't doing too hot right now. They're being beaten regularly by Pirate Warrior, Taunt Warrior and Hunter. We can't say anything for certain before the new Data Reaper report comes out due to the lower sample size of their Live Reports, but so far the top decks in Legend are Freeze Mage, Pirate Warrior, Midrange Paladin and Midrange Hunter. In that order. 

 

Which is surprising since Rogue is winning lots of tournaments, though this is either due to it simply being a deck which is hard to pilot and thus performs badly on ladder as most don't know how to play it, or the ladder decks have started pushing Rogue out of the meta. 

In either case, I doubt Rogue will be viable for much longer. It punished the greedier list the meta produced early on, but will be outclassed as Aggro and Midrange Decks start to dominate. 

[nepeta100]

according to tempostorm tier one decks are quest warrior,quest rougue miracle rougue and pirate warrior also every class has a tier two or above deck except shaman

[Tartar]

3 hours ago, nepeta100 said:

according to tempostorm tier one decks are quest warrior,quest rougue miracle rougue and pirate warrior also every class has a tier two or above deck except shaman

Tempostorm hasn't been relevant for a while now. They're too slow and have failed to predict the rise of new decks before they've already overtaken the Meta. That isn't to say they're useless, just that they state what the meta was a while ago, instead of vS Data Reaper which has successfully predicted the rise and Fall of Reno Mage, the fall of pirate warrior, and the rise of aggro shaman in the short term and the rise of midrange shaman in the long term, and once the nerfs hit, the rise of aggro shaman, among other small trends in the meta. 

Frankly speaking, vS Data Reaper is magic and I don't know how, but they've successfully predicted every single change in the meta that has happened in the past 6 months. 

 

So while Tempostorm may say that Rogue is top tier at the moment, I'm gonna trust vS Reaper stats for now and say that Rogue will be pushed out of the meta quite quickly as their matchups are bad against the other top tier decks. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Tartar

[nepeta100]

thanks for letting me know about data reaper unfortunately it seems they don't have a one for ungoro yet or am I mistaken

[Tartar]

13 hours ago, nepeta100 said:

thanks for letting me know about data reaper unfortunately it seems they don't have a one for ungoro yet or am I mistaken

No, the meta hasn't settled yet, and they need to collect data. They get around 15k game submissions a day, which is available to the public in their Live Reports. 

But they tend to wait a few weeks once the meta stabilises before posting their reports, and then post them every few weeks after that. 

[Eviora]

Well, as someone who has access to a lot of cards and dust, I'm finding Un'goro to be a blast! Time warp mage is hilarious. I imagine this set would be pretty miserable for players with fewer resources, though.

 

My most successful deck so far:

 

Spoiler

Discard Zoolock

 

[Tartar]

@Eviora I should probably craft something... But I'm way to stingy for some reason, and have 16k dust hoarded up, and probably 5k more if I want to disenchant cards that aren't duplicates but merely worthless. 

... By chance, what have you crafted thus far this set?  The only thing that looks interesting to me is the Murloc archetype, with Finja and Gentle Megasaur looking fun in Paladin and Shaman. But I'm uncertain about how viable they will be in the long term. 

[Eviora]

@Tartar

 

I crafted the mage and druid quests, plus a few assorted epics, such as the mage rune for 2 mana that lets you discover a spell and it costs 2 less. (I forget the name.) I believe I have over 22k dust right now. I never disenchant non-duplicates, because I am a hoarder. =p

[Tartar]

20 minutes ago, Eviora said:

@Tartar

 

I crafted the mage and druid quests, plus a few assorted epics, such as the mage rune for 2 mana that lets you discover a spell and it costs 2 less. (I forget the name.) I believe I have over 22k dust right now. I never disenchant non-duplicates, because I am a hoarder. =p

 

Wow that's pretty amazing, and here I thought I had a lot after crafting nearly nothing for 1½ years. 

It must've taken such a long time to amass such an amount ~ Have fun, and remember to not spend it all at once...