Bad guys in reborn

[Juniper]

I have just realized that all of team meteor's pokémon obey them.

For pokémon of such a level to do so would require them to have gym badges, no?

In fact, approximately the same amount of badges as the main protagonist.

Do the gym leaders just let meteor's waltz in and take gym challenges, knowing they'll use the pokémon for evil??

I suppose it's possibl for the grunts to just dress up as civilians but what about the commanders??

it's not as though people like ZEL blend in superbly.

I can't imagine Sirius walking into the gym like "Hey, so... can I challenge you or?...."

And they can't possibly have stolen the badges either, they'd need to steal one of every badge for each member of meteor, there's no way the gyms have security that bad.

And if they could somehow do that, why don't they just steal a ton of rare candies and make every meteor's pokémon level 100??

This is preposterous.

It's an interesting system though, I'm just ranting because it counters my primary Pokémon strategy.

(LEVEL UP)

Got a new pokémon?

LEVEL UP

Trainer too tough?

LEVEL UP

Serious type disadvantage against a gym leader?

....Catch new pokémon?-NO,

LEVEL UP!

[Vlado Vladimir]

That's cause they are bad pokemons too(? I think.

[DashingStorm]

And now I pose to you the question;

In what Pokémon game throughout the entire franchise has it ever mattered whether the bad guys have overleveled Pokémon or not?

[SkyRunner]

1. T3RR4 could have given them all her Badge, which meant that they could level their Pokémon up to Level 75. This operates under the assumption that the number of Badges doesn't matter as much as the rank of the Gym Leader in question does.

2. Team Meteor has a machine that lets them bypass the Badge requirement.

3. Does it really matter?

[Juniper]

No, it doesn't really matter when the game is this good.

It just doesn't make sense, no big deal x.x

[TRHStatement]

Well since El is an Elite 4 member and affiliated with Team Meteor, he probably did some ritual or spell that made all the PKMN listen to their owners. That or the Meteors have one hell of a training regiment.

[BlackMage]

I don't think that the badge requirement is a necessity for Team Meteor...I mean it has never happened in other pokemon games for other teams and besides Pokemon was never a realistic game to begin with.

Or if it really does matter, then like others said above, El or Terra could've have caused all the Pokemon to obey them or they might've stolen the badges.

Btw, for topics relating to Reborn, please post them in the Reborn City forum .

Edited August 18, 2015 by BlackMage

[Juniper]

My bad, can't seem to post things in the right place x_X BUUUUUUT in other games, there is no badge requirement for controlling your pokémon, only for controlling traded ones.

Excuse ME! Pokémon is the MOST realistic game ever. are you trying to tell me that you don't believe in our lord and alighty savious arceus? are you saying that large dragons don't even have control over space and time?? Are you saying animals can't really be stored in digital form inside small balls? Another thing, why do the bad guys still only carry a max of 6 pokémon, why can't they just break the rules? also do they buy medicines in the pokémart? do they heal at pokécenters? (oh wait no, they have healing machines, never mind.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Juuzou

[TRHStatement]

Another thing, why do the bad guys still only carry a max of 6 pokémon, why can't they just break the rules?

HEY HEY HEY!!! Although the bad guys do really inhumane thing to people and PKMN, they also respect the code of honor.

[Juniper]

but the bad guys in this game kill people and use steroid machines on pokémon x.x

[BlackMage]

My bad, can't seem to post things in the right place x_X BUUUUUUT in other games, there is no badge requirement for controlling your pokémon, only for controlling traded ones.

Excuse ME! Pokémon is the MOST realistic game ever. are you trying to tell me that you don't believe in our lord and alighty savious arceus? are you saying that large dragons don't even have control over space and time?? Are you saying animals can't really be stored in digital form inside small balls? Another thing, why do the bad guys still only carry a max of 6 pokémon, why can't they just break the rules? also do they buy medicines in the pokémart? do they heal at pokécenters? (oh wait no, they have healing machines, never mind.

1) That's right, I don't believe in Arceus . He's unreal!

2) They don't . Dragons are supposed to be ferocious beasts who spout fiery breaths and stomp on puny humans, not control the time-space continuum.

3) Noooooope, sorry!

4) Apparently, if you gain more than 6 pokemon they are stored in your pokeball permanently until you release one of your team members or store them away in the box .

5) The mystery of why medicines are found only in pokemarts and hidden rocks or trash cans is still a mystery.

6) You answered it yourself.

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

Ame said other trainers might have their own way of making Pokemon obey, and we just don't see because we're the protagonist.

[Juniper]

Ame said other trainers might have their own way of making Pokemon obey, and we just don't see because we're the protagonist.

That's not fair x.x none of my monsters listen to me and it makes me feel like an inadequate trainer.

"Here, let me grind your levels up for an hour"

"Thanks chump, now I don't have to listen to you anymore"

[ZEL]

The basic principle is that Pokémon choose to obey trainers that earn their respect.

For player characters in the main games, that's usually done through obtaining badges, but if you look at spin-off games like Ranger or Conquest, it's apparent that there are more ways to achieve that.

Now, it's probably debatable as to what extent Conquest fits into what's regarded as the canonverse, but we do see Rangers as a trainer class in the regular games, so apparently that works.

So even if we leave aside the obvious explanation that badges are simply a milestone mechanic to introduce certain elements to the game (HMs, plot progress, level cap) and are a thing that we're meant to obtain because the core games are all about becoming the new Champ, it's pretty clear that there's more than one way to make Pokémon obey.

The basic key appears to be respect.

Respect doesn't even mean that a Pokémon has to like its trainer, considering the existence of moves such as Frustration.

(Though if we're picking this apart, we might as well consider the fact that some Meteors have Pokémon that evolve through friendship. Could they have been stolen? Sure, but I'd say just because a character is a jerk and has err, problematic motives, doesn't necessarily mean they don't have what it takes to raise a Pokémon team. Just look at Fern; the majority of people hate his guts, he's made some questionable decisions in-game, it's established that he is not a nice person to other people (at least not recently), yet we see his Budew grow into a Roserade throughout the game.)

Respect is a broad term, and badges are merely one way to get it.

They're supposed to be proof of a trainer's skill in battling, but there's nothing saying that a Pokémon can't recognize/acknowledge it in any other way.

[Lord Drakyle]

Fern has been collecting Badges too and Roselia evolves into Roserade from a Shiny Stone I believe so im not catching your point as to what Fern's guts being hated and his Budew becoming Roserade have to do with anything

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

Roselia evolves into Roserade with a Shiny Stone, but Budew evolves into Roselia with max happiness during the day.

[ZEL]

That had nothing to do with the level cap and merely to do with Friendship evolution, because I wanted to point out that someone who is a "bad person" as far as the game's storyline is concerned doesn't necessarily have to be a "bad person" to their pokemon, thus potentially being able to earn their love or respect anyway.

So if people like Fern or Zero who are generally jerkasses to other humans are able to obtain Pokémon that evolve through friendship (Roselia and Umbreon), who's to say trainers like the various members of Team Meteor can't gain the respect of their Pokémon through something else than the League challenge/badges?

There's got to be huge numbers of trainers in the Pokémon world who don't want to challenge the league/gym leaders, it's be implausible for that to be the only way to get a Pokémon to obey.

[Kiroen]

I keep reading "bad guys" this and "bad guys" that, and even If it's a bit off-topic, I wanted to mention that both Team Meteor and the Arceus' crazy freaks zealots have systems of beliefs that lead them to think that THEY are the good guys. Good and evil are relative, they think they are doing greater good to the world (or, at least, the new world) that is far beyond their crimes they have to commit for it - and, of course, they have no reason to treat their Pokemon in a bad way.

The exception to all of this is Fern. Fern is just a jerk. Keep hating him.

[Frostilicious]

I keep reading "bad guys" this and "bad guys" that, and even If it's a bit off-topic, I wanted to mention that both Team Meteor and the Arceus' crazy freaks zealots have systems of beliefs that lead them to think that THEY are the good guys. Good and evil are relative, they think they are doing greater good to the world (or, at least, the new world) that is far beyond their crimes they have to commit for it - and, of course, they have no reason to treat their Pokemon in a bad way.

The exception to all of this is Fern. Fern is just a jerk. Keep hating him.

How can you hate Fern? He's so arrogant that he fights you everytime and he loses everytime so that means free exp

[Juniper]

I keep reading "bad guys" this and "bad guys" that, and even If it's a bit off-topic, I wanted to mention that both Team Meteor and the Arceus' crazy freaks zealots have systems of beliefs that lead them to think that THEY are the good guys. Good and evil are relative, they think they are doing greater good to the world (or, at least, the new world) that is far beyond their crimes they have to commit for it - and, of course, they have no reason to treat their Pokemon in a bad way.

The exception to all of this is Fern. Fern is just a jerk. Keep hating him.

Yeah technically there are no "bad guys" in real life (Exceptions to sociopathic serial killers and such like)

But Team meteor is generic pokémon game bad guy team.

They have a belief that most people will disagree with (just like Plasma and Galactic) So the protagonist has to shut them down.

Besides, "bad guys" is more fun to say then "guys (and girls) who aren't really bad but have a different set of beliefs than me"

How can you hate Fern? He's so arrogant that he fights you everytime and he loses everytime so that means free exp

How can you NOT hate fern... he's just so... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I actually waited in that stupid nuzleaf cage because I refused to submit to him. And he's an AI. That's how much I hate him. I hate him so much that an AI is capable of making me feel conscious about my own self-respect and pride ¬¬

Edited August 19, 2015 by Juuzou

[ZEL]

Purely from the player character's perspective I'd still much rather encounter Fern than, say, Sirius/Solaris/El/[pick your poison].

I mean, say what you want about how much of a jerk he is, at least he hasn't killed anybody yet.

I don't understand why people keep saying that Fern is "just" a jerk.

If we can excuse the cultists and the Meteors and allies like Saphira and Titania from their actions, why not Fern?

Do we know why he's behaving the way he does? Let's take a look

- has an older sister who, through something that happened in her youth (which Fern was probably witness to/knows something about) decided that ridding herself of emotion is the best solution (that didn't work out very well for Cyrus, Rini)

- is constantly overshadowed by said sister, "merely" the reserve leader

- once he starts doing the League challenge, he just can't seem to prove himself better than you either (you keep beating him and he's only margially faster at obtaining badges)

- as of E16, still can't beat you, and has to listen to his Boss praising you while his sister points out how hard he's failed

- as of E16, during the little "Fern's a hostage" fake, has to listen to Florinia basically saying that it doesn't matter if he's her brother, she's not gonna save his ass (regardless of her own obvious loss of composure during the whole scene, that must be bad to hear)

Is Fern a jerk? Yes. Does he say really cruel things about people? Yes.

But at least he hasn't tried killing me with my back turned yet. Thanks a lot, Solaris.

Neither does he go into a blind killing spree of everything that's in his way. Really, what's with Saphira and Tania?

Neither is he continuing to allow an organization like Meteor to keep using his invention to destroy cities and kill people, even after the blackmail that started it no longer works. Following a desperate pipe dream there, Eve.

Neither has he attempted to brainwash his own daughter because she's got different beliefs. El please.

His reasoning for siding with the Meteors? He wants his rightful place. He said that he doesn't give much of a damn about anything else they believe in or do. He wants to be "where he belongs", on the top.

Sounds to me like he's really desperate for recognition/attention that he probably never got.

And yes, he's a jerk. But I hate him less than Sirius \o/ jk jk Sirius is also a cool character. But y'know, not the nicest of the bunch.

[Frostilicious]

Purely from the player character's perspective I'd still much rather encounter Fern than, say, Sirius/Solaris/El/[pick your poison].

I mean, say what you want about how much of a jerk he is, at least he hasn't killed anybody yet.

I don't understand why people keep saying that Fern is "just" a jerk.

If we can excuse the cultists and the Meteors and allies like Saphira and Titania from their actions, why not Fern?

Do we know why he's behaving the way he does? Let's take a look

- has an older sister who, through something that happened in her youth (which Fern was probably witness to/knows something about) decided that ridding herself of emotion is the best solution (that didn't work out very well for Cyrus, Rini)

- is constantly overshadowed by said sister, "merely" the reserve leader

- once he starts doing the League challenge, he just can't seem to prove himself better than you either (you keep beating him and he's only margially faster at obtaining badges)

- as of E16, still can't beat you, and has to listen to his Boss praising you while his sister points out how hard he's failed

- as of E16, during the little "Fern's a hostage" fake, has to listen to Florinia basically saying that it doesn't matter if he's her brother, she's not gonna save his ass (regardless of her own obvious loss of composure during the whole scene, that must be bad to hear)

Is Fern a jerk? Yes. Does he say really cruel things about people? Yes.

But at least he hasn't tried killing me with my back turned yet. Thanks a lot, Solaris.

Neither does he go into a blind killing spree of everything that's in his way. Really, what's with Saphira and Tania?

Neither is he continuing to allow an organization like Meteor to keep using his invention to destroy cities and kill people, even after the blackmail that started it no longer works. Following a desperate pipe dream there, Eve.

Neither has he attempted to brainwash his own daughter because she's got different beliefs. El please.

His reasoning for siding with the Meteors? He wants his rightful place. He said that he doesn't give much of a damn about anything else they believe in or do. He wants to be "where he belongs", on the top.

Sounds to me like he's really desperate for recognition/attention that he probably never got.

d

And yes, he's a jerk. But I hate him less than Sirius \o/ jk jk Sirius is also a cool character. But y'know, not the nicest of the bunch.

The fact that someome has lost someone, missed something or wasn't treated like they should have been, doesn't mean they should act in the same way or even worse towards others. Fern may just be a character from a game, but there are many Ferns in the real world with that kind of attitude and nothing poses an excuse to their behavior.

[ZEL]

I wasn't saying that it's okay for him to behave the way he does, but just like the other antagonists, he does have reasons behind why he acts like that.

They're not necessarily valid reasons, but they're reasons.

What I was trying to say is, Fern is a jerk, but it's not something he just does. There'll be things that caused him to be that way, but unlike characters such as bratty Heather, he hasn't yet experienced a real turning point.

I don't think it's okay of him to be an ass all the time, especially with remarks as the ones towards Shelly or Corey.

I just think that he's as much of a deep character as any of the others, and tends to get brushed aside by people as being nothing more than "that one unlikable jerk".

If the Meteors and Cultists aren't "just bad guys", then Fern's not "just a jerk", is all~

The thing is, I have a huge soft spot for jerkass characters. <3

[Kiroen]

Purely from the player character's perspective I'd still much rather encounter Fern than, say, Sirius/Solaris/El/[pick your poison].

I mean, say what you want about how much of a jerk he is, at least he hasn't killed anybody yet.

I don't understand why people keep saying that Fern is "just" a jerk.

If we can excuse the cultists and the Meteors and allies like Saphira and Titania from their actions, why not Fern?

Do we know why he's behaving the way he does? Let's take a look

- has an older sister who, through something that happened in her youth (which Fern was probably witness to/knows something about) decided that ridding herself of emotion is the best solution (that didn't work out very well for Cyrus, Rini)

- is constantly overshadowed by said sister, "merely" the reserve leader

- once he starts doing the League challenge, he just can't seem to prove himself better than you either (you keep beating him and he's only margially faster at obtaining badges)

- as of E16, still can't beat you, and has to listen to his Boss praising you while his sister points out how hard he's failed

- as of E16, during the little "Fern's a hostage" fake, has to listen to Florinia basically saying that it doesn't matter if he's her brother, she's not gonna save his ass (regardless of her own obvious loss of composure during the whole scene, that must be bad to hear)

Is Fern a jerk? Yes. Does he say really cruel things about people? Yes.

But at least he hasn't tried killing me with my back turned yet. Thanks a lot, Solaris.

Neither does he go into a blind killing spree of everything that's in his way. Really, what's with Saphira and Tania?

Neither is he continuing to allow an organization like Meteor to keep using his invention to destroy cities and kill people, even after the blackmail that started it no longer works. Following a desperate pipe dream there, Eve.

Neither has he attempted to brainwash his own daughter because she's got different beliefs. El please.

His reasoning for siding with the Meteors? He wants his rightful place. He said that he doesn't give much of a damn about anything else they believe in or do. He wants to be "where he belongs", on the top.

Sounds to me like he's really desperate for recognition/attention that he probably never got.

And yes, he's a jerk. But I hate him less than Sirius \o/ jk jk Sirius is also a cool character. But y'know, not the nicest of the bunch.

All of that is true, but it only makes it worse. Solaris is murdering people and causing disasters because he wants to change the world for the better (even If we could prove, without a chance of being mistaken, that his posture is incoherent or irrational), Fern supports such a group and everything they're doing because he's an attention whore, because he's a spoiled brat, maybe even without any considerations at all of the grand scheme.

Having said this, I loved the "Fern was here. MC is a loser." graffiti - ...And obviously, Blake is worse.

[BlackMage]

I keep reading "bad guys" this and "bad guys" that, and even If it's a bit off-topic, I wanted to mention that both Team Meteor and the Arceus' crazy freaks zealots have systems of beliefs that lead them to think that THEY are the good guys. Good and evil are relative, they think they are doing greater good to the world (or, at least, the new world) that is far beyond their crimes they have to commit for it - and, of course, they have no reason to treat their Pokemon in a bad way.

The exception to all of this is Fern. Fern is just a jerk. Keep hating him.

Exactly how I wanted to state my views but I couldn't properly word them. However people like Solaris have good intentions but those intentions do not matter if the method he uses to apply them is wrong...he just doesn't get it :3.

Also, I think Sirius and Blake should join Fern. (Blake is self-explanatory. As for Sirius, I think he just wants power)

Edited August 19, 2015 by BlackMage