Gaunt Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I'm not sure if this is the right place for a topic like this (if not please move it) but let's begin. Recently i finished Shadowrun: Hong Kong and one of the NPC (Racter, my favorite) was "obsessed" with this (controversial for someone) idea so i thought about asking everyone what they think about it. For those of you who don't know what this 'movement" consist of here's an (incomplete and noobish) explanation: The "goal" of transhumanism is to enhance and eventually transform humans into "better" life forms via bioengineering or cybernetics (or other means i know nothing of) to overcome our natural limitations. If you played or know of Deus Ex you basically get the picture (even though that game "explores" only one of the possible paths). Now (if you want of course) tell me if you agree with this idea (or not) and why...ah another thing! If you have a better "explanation" please write it and i'll edit my post. P.S. Almost forgot to state my opinion: I'm all for it (the sooner the better) why? Because i want my cool cyberarms...no but seriously i see only benefits in making ourselves "better" and yes of course there will be risks and accidents but that's normal when a totally new technology comes out, the cost of such upgrades will be prohibitive (at least at the beginning) but hey it was the same with PC, the "moral" aspect of it doesn't concern me in the slightest, it will happen (if we don't destroy ourselves first like Racter said) and nothing should stay in the way of progress (this is of course my personal opinion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 *Puts on creepy metallic voice* Join the Glorious Evolution! Okay, done with the silly. Sadly I don't have time for a full post right now, I'll try to say something serious later, because this is a very interesting topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combat Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 "I never asked for this." -Adam Memeson Face it, someone had to post this, so it was best to get it out of the way. In my honest opinion, I feel like humanity is eventually going to hit this point (assuming we don't royally mess up first and end up destroying the world) and as the Sign Painter from the World of Goo says... "You Can't Stop Progress." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etesian Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) "Why not?" sums up my answer. Only issues I can see are moral issues, but those aren't really issues if you're asking me. Well, and overpopulation. As great as it would be to have your lifetime extended (or maybe somehow possibly even immortality), places like China already suffer from overpopulation, so maybe put more work into space travel first or something. Edited September 8, 2015 by Etesian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Elliot Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 My only contact with transhumanism was that one time when I had to attend to this kid who would not shut up about it. Basically, a long-time family friend got engaged with a russian woman, who is divorced and has a son from her previous marriage. This son came to Italy with her, but he doesn't speak italian (he makes it a point to proclaim that he "hates" it), so whenever I am in my hometown I have to spend some time with him because, being good with English, I am the only one in this circle of friends who can communicate with him. So yeah, my sole contact with this theory was a 13 or 14 kid who, in a rather broken English, explained to me that his mother is a slut and that the one to blame for this is no other than God, Who made humans flawed: it therefore falls on humans now to set right what He did wrong by perfecting our species with techological means. You will admit this is not the best way to get to know what is a rather serious theory, also because the kid was clearly repeating words he had read on God knows what website, without really understanding them. But you see, my personal opinion is that humans are a pathetic, self-absorbed race full of complexes. We are unable to accept that we are creatures like there are many in the universe, that our individual existances are not that important in the grand scheme of things. You are born with your flaws, with your flaws you live, and with your flaws you die: is it so difficult to accept this simple truth? Humans are the only race that ever spent time speculating about being something other than humans. I am a human. Why would I want to be something else? I like being a human. I strongly believe that the struggle to find a meaning for your life is itself the meaning of your life: if there are no struggles because you are perfect, then what's the point in being alive? I mean ok, you remove all of your flaws via technological means, and you become immortal: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO THEN? Has anyone ever thought about this? What do you do once you are immortal? What do you do once you are perfect? What do you do once robotics can take care of all of your problems for you? P.S.: I am being serious here, so please avoid answers like "I would play Reborn all the time!" <.< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Squad Felicity Posted September 8, 2015 Support Squad Share Posted September 8, 2015 gimme wings, built in Super-heelies and impact absorbers. Then I can rush wherever I want without having to worry too much about things lime physics or getting hit by cars. Oh, and a computer UI that I can see like in Accel world. That would be dope af. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaunt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I am a human. Why would I want to be something else? I like being a human. I strongly believe that the struggle to find a meaning for your life is itself the meaning of your life: if there are no struggles because you are perfect, then what's the point in being alive? I mean ok, you remove all of your flaws via technological means, and you become immortal: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO THEN? Has anyone ever thought about this? What do you do once you are immortal? What do you do once you are perfect? What do you do once robotics can take care of all of your problems for you? P.S.: I am being serious here, so please avoid answers like "I would play Reborn all the time!" <.< Whatever you want, literally, be it entertainment (so yes playing videogames is a serious answer) or scientific discovery, or learning everything you wanted but didn't have the time for or even exploring the universe to see it's beauty, or...exc exc. After you did all this (and lived a VERY long and interesting life) you can go to sleep to awaken after 1000 (or more) years to experience something new but all this talk about "eternal life" is distant future stuff in the near one the best we'll probably get is an extended life and a more resistant body what's bad about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Elliot Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I just don't see the fun in that. Our limited, flawed, mediocre existance could be lots of fun if you gave it an actual chance, instead of spending your days dreaming about being something else... That's all I am saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRHStatement Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Well, if we can ensure that the Earth's resources can preserved for another 1000 years, we should then move towards transhumanism. Because what is the point of living essentially forever if you're going to see the world you live in be destroyed in front your eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The best things in life are free. Long story short, I'm not for cybernetic enhancements of the human body unless it's for the sake of health. Call it what you will, but I don't like it at all. I'd rather go to simpler times than continue down the path we're going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meruem Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 no. i really dont want to sound like some close-minded elder born almost century ago, but i absolutely hate things like that. ive watched and enjoyed sci-fi shows like psycho-pass and ergo proxy, where things like this are possible, but in reality, i would much prefer it if everything remained simple and pure as it is. i strongly dislike the thought of cyber-humans or anything similar to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidStar Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I'll have to say yes to it, for more than my own reasons and opinions. It is not something that humans need to continue living until we eventually die out as a species. It is something that will ensure we last longer and possibly wouldn't even need to stay on this planet. It will take out some weaknesses that we have as well as give us new ones. There is much more to be said about why it would benefit humanity, however there is just as much to be said against it as well -even if it's not good reasoning by people who prefer to stay "human"- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutoratosu Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I'm a fan of both real world scientific advancement as wel as sci-fi, but... the idea of transhumanism honestly seems a bit silly to me, to be honest, at least from the current standing point of the human race. Our global environment is deteriorating more and more, we're getting to the point where in the relative-near future, large scale shortages of basic resources such as water is likely to become very real, far more worse and extensive than they are now, and a host of various other issues that are honestly far more pressing, and, In my personal opinion, far more deserving of devoting valuable manpower and intellect into developing the solutions for, over simply pimping out the human body with enhancements that, from a pure logical stand point, are not necessarily needed to ensure the general survival of the species. Evolution and nature itself have already done enough work to ensure humans can technically function just fine independent of any advancements, as much as certain aspects of the modern world make that hard to believe. In biology, if something don't work, it dies off. and we're still here I'm not against it now, don't get me wrong... I think it would be great to have a bit more control over one's body and being, whether that be achieved through classic cybernetics, nano technology, etc... but at the same time, there are wants, and then there are needs; necessities and desires. Devoting more time and effort towards trying to resolve the current issues in front of us is a necessity, being able to pimp out your body with some sweet, sweet enhancements is a Desire. There's really no way around that simple fact that I can see. It would be far wiser and better for the future of the human race if we prioritize. TL;DR- I'm not against it, but I seriously think that not a whole lot of effort should be spent on it until more pressing matters have been resolved. EDIT: And this just covers the Priority section of my stance and reasoning, not the other issues such as basic human nature which will inevitably lead to people, organizations, and probably whole nations abusing this new technology in some way shape or form, which also leads directly into the issues of Ethics and laws being necessary, just as they were when it was proven cloning was possible with the current level of technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 What do you do once you are immortal? What do you do once you are perfect? What do you do once robotics can take care of all of your problems for you? Sit around hating the world and myself, duh Personally I'm strongly against this. Humanity is an inherently flawed species and improving our physical state isn't going to do shit for fixing any of that. In fact, it would probably just amplify them. Humans can barely be trusted when they aren't walking weapons Once we've fixed the billion and one issues with our minds I'll reconsider trying to enhance our bodies However, it's inevitably going to happen. So we should start preparing by making rules about what can and can't be done with these sorts of things, even though those rules will also inevitably be broken. Maybe we can minimize the damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Squad Felicity Posted September 8, 2015 Support Squad Share Posted September 8, 2015 What do you do once you are immortal? What do you do once you are perfect? What do you do once robotics can take care of all of your problems for you? You take up a hobby. You'd need more than several lifetimes to experience every book, show, game, play or any type of media worth experiencing as well as keep tabs on what is being created all the time.That's just assuming you don't feel any moralistic need to improve the world on the whole. You could do anything given time and as an immortal you have that. A lot of people underestimate the scope of what that means.If that can be achieved through transhumanism then shoot. Plus there's going to be millions of self-destruct buttons ready for use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiryuu Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) For those that have no idea of what this post mean look at this 3 min video. This will 100% happen in the future and will be a thing. It will most likely be introduce first on the US military and whether you agree with it or not, it will happen. Now, my opinion. I do believe this is a great step to the right direction. It doesn't matter how much enhancement we do to our body, we are still humans. You may be able to fly, take over 100 bullets on your body etc. Of course, with new technologies, new laws are created. The last thing we want is somebody with a cybernetic arm, install a light machine gun on it and wipe out a whole town. I mean, ending disability would be a HUGE success not just in US but worldwide. Being able to share thoughts with another human is pretty fucking sick too. Being able to see everything clearly at night is huge perk too. The people that disagree with this are just afraid of change. WE ALL afraid of change, including myself. I struggle with this every single day in my life. We have to move forward not only with our lifes but with technology has well. It will a matter of time before a TV is just a "Square" thin has fuck, 56 inches and weighting about 20 pounds. It will be matter of time we can detect cancer on a baby before is born. It will be matter of time _____________ you get the gist. Edited September 8, 2015 by Kiryuu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meruem Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The people that disagree with this are just afraid of change. WE ALL afraid of change, including myself. I struggle with this every single day in my life. We have to move forward not only with our lifes but with technology has well. not true, i couldnt care less about change and i still strongly disagree with this. subjectively, ive already stated how i feel about it overall, but even objectively there are countless flaws that would be brought up if something like this ever happened. i could make a huge post on that, but it's pointless because anyone can figure them out if they think about the human society and how it works for 10 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trippineverywhere Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) The closer we come to this, the more problems develop. Instead of trying to make things more complicated and difficult and etc, we should just stay simple. Like yeah, it might be "cool", but it can also be a disaster. If we transform everything into "better" things, what is to stop ourselves? We will continuously want to become better and better. (Which is already a problem with just our looks and personalities in today's society.) And then once a disaster happens, so many people will pay the price for it. And that's one of the very many scenarios that could happen. It's cool in video games and fantasy of course, but it shouldn't become reality. ~Of course this is just my opinion and I like listening to everyone else's viewpoints on it.~ Edited September 8, 2015 by deathoftheflame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexagoen Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 like 99% of you guys, i too, am a fan of all this sci-fi cyborg crazy cool power shenanigans, but those things, could, and should remain as fiction. WE. ARE. HUMANS! we aren't some crazy man made ro-bo thingamajig with like cyborg arms and sharingan eyes, we ARE natures product. 100% genuine human! lets keep it that way and not kill ourselves with this robot nonsense!!! just my 2 cents in the matter~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuthorReborn Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I personally believe that it's an intriguing route to go down and science has always fascinated me. That being said, there becomes a point where you either need to stop where you are or ditch your hunanity in the dust. Even in Shadowrun, this is acknowledged through the form of "essence" which measures how metahuman you are. More essence (max of six) is closer towards being a normal person and less comes from cybernetic implementation. One you lose essence, it's gone and there is no going back. And while Racter may think that his particular sect of insanity will be able to surpass the essence limit, that remains to be seen. He could very well just be an astral anomaly. But I digress. Basically, I believe that such augmentation is perfectly fine so long as one does not cross the line in the sand between a living being into the state of that of a drone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mde2001 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The idea sounds cool but I am personally against the technology becoming available. What is to say some person couldn't create a superhuman army with it and have a mass genocide or something along those lines. We get into dangerous territory when we start enhancing ourselves beyond our current species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Man, you are all so afraid. Simple is a matter of perspective. Bacteria is simple. We are not. We are complex. We are complex because we are capable of interacting with and manipulating our environment. This is just more of the same. Maybe it's not for everyone but for those who can adapt to this change, it opens an incredible host of new possibilities. It is simple historical fact that those who resist change the most are left in the dust and then overtaken by everyone else. Just look at the Middle East, Africa, 'native' races on each continent. Sure, there will be issues that come up, but there will be different approaches and solutions as well. Humanity has stopped evolving physically. Hereditary diseases are coped with and physical and mental issues persist instead of being weeded out as they once were. This is both strength and weakness of living together as a society. I'm for the idea of directing and controlling changes. Just because we change doesn't mean we reckless and heedlessly toss away moral values at the same time. Even as I changed from catholic to atheist, there were still many moral foundations that I kept with me. Because they still work but have a different, rational explanation to back them. That logical foundation doesn't just vanish. Especially when logic is the force behind these technological advances. If you cannot mentally adapt to physical changes, you will be weeded out and humanity will evolve mentally without you. Make no mistake, there will be losses and gains with modification. You will have to figure out the best route for you. Popular references: Cyborg, teen titans Gattaga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiryuu Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Man, you are all so afraid. Simple is a matter of perspective. It is simple historical fact that those who resist change the most are left in the dust and then overtaken by everyone else. Just look at the Middle East, Africa, 'native' races on each continent. If you cannot mentally adapt to physical changes, you will be weeded out and humanity will evolve mentally without you. ^ this guy beat me to it. I was going to said this on response to @Gore. This movement have the potential of ending disability. Do you know how huge that is? Go to the video I posted here, around 0:42, the girl playing the instrument. That girl was on the news few years ago. She was 100% deaf until that day. Hearing music sounds tear her up! The people that disagree with this are just living in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eviora Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 What do I think about this? I hope it becomes widely accessible before I die. To bastardize a Voldemort quote, "Only everyone can live forever". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamitako Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 No, I'm observing human nature and realizing that we are nowhere near ready to handle our "next stage of evolution." This is getting way ahead of ourselves, not that the opinion of one girl on the internet is going to change the fact that it's gonna happen anyways Also you'll note that I did put in an exception for medical reasons. Bringing people who are behind up to the level of regular (regular is mean word, but I can't think of a better way to say it) humans is a different thing from enhancing regular humans to superhuman levels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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