New Team of Run 2

[Dragon116]

Hey guys. I'm going to rebuild my team for my 2nd run and would like some advice before I start. Here is my planned team and the reasoning behind it.

Sneasel - Ice/Dark

Adamant - 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP

Keen Eye

Icicle Crash, Bite Dig, Poison Jab

- This is my Ice type foremost, enabling it to deal with Grass, Ground, Flying, and Dragon. The Dark type is also needed, mainly for dealing with Psychics, but useful against Ghosts too. I picked Sneasel over Mamoswine because I was trying to lessen the water weakness in the team, and no other Ice type looked as promising. IC for mandatory primary STAB, Bite for the secondary STAB, and Dig and Poison Jab for those backup coverage. Other than IC, not sure whether the other moves are recommendable or not.

Heracross - Fighting/Bug

Adamant - 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP

Moxie

Close Combat, Megahorn, Night Slash, Aerial Ace

- This is my Fighting type foremost, hitting SE on Normal, Ice, Rock, Dark, and Steel (Those last 2 are especially pesky to deal with). The Bug type is supportive when fighting Grass and Psychic (Sneasel main method for handling these). Chosen as I have no Blazekin, and Dark type Scrafty increases Fighting weakness of the team. Toxicroak's mediocre moveset gives it an unappealing niche use.I was running Gallade in my team prior to this, but I wanted more power from it. Moveset is pretty standard, Aerial Ace is the only replacable move, but given what we have I'm not seeing anything worthwhile besides HM slot.

Hippowdom - Ground

Impish - 252 Atk/252 Def/4 HP

Sand Stream

Earthquake, Crunch, Curse, Slack Off

- The Ground type to handle pesky Electric, Fire, and Poison types, but also supports in Rock and Steel (Heracross main handler). Tied with Ryhperior in my view, I opted to try this in my second run team and Ryhperior in my first run team. Exadrill or Swampart would be preferable, but I have neither. Again passed on Mamoswine to not bring double Ice weakness to the team. Was running Krookodile, but it was getting swept and struggling to make the impact Moxie needed. Slated to be the Physical wall, Curse and Slack Off should give it some really nice staying power. EQ and Crunch seem to be standard choices, but Crunch is replacable.

Staraptor - Flying/Normal

Reckless

Adamant - 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP

Close Combat, Brave Bird, Take Down, Quick Attack

- The Flying type to handle Fighting and Bug, and supporting Grass (Sneasel again). Tied with Archeops for the destructive glass cannon opener, it looked more appealing than Honchkrow and Yanmega. Moveset is standard, but Take Down seems so pointless. Thinking of using it as a Fly slot, but not sure how that would impact performance. Also unsure on EV spread, as 252 Spe seems overkill, but it's defenses don't support investment in anything else.

Rotom-Heat - Electric/Fire

Levitate

Calm - 252 Sp.A/252 Sp.D/4 HP

Discharge. Overheat, Hex, T-Wave

- The Electric type to handle Water types, and backup against physically defensive Flying types. Fire type helps support Grass, Ice, Bug, and Steel. Slated to be the Special Wall (opportunity to be physically resilient too because of all those resistances), no other electric type offers this diversity. T-Wave and Hex abuse seems so very easy. Discharge and Overheat for those STAB offensive moves.

Magnezone - Steel/Electric

Sturdy

Modest - 252 Sp.A/252 Spe/4 HP

Discharge, Flash Cannon, Electric Terrain, Metal Sound

- The Steel type to deal with Fairy types (unaccounted for elsewhere in my team), it's also backs up for Ice and Rock. Electric type backs up Water and Flying (can never have enough backups for those). Although Metagross is tempting, it's movepool didn't seem to support the above team very well. Poison types are an option, but 11 resistances is tough to pass up. However, this is definitely the weakest link of the team, and is open to suggestions to replace it. Discharge and Flash Cannon are the mandatory STAB moves, while ET gives field manipulation and MS the ability to weaken the opponent, although it's replaceable with T-Wave to take advantage of that Sturdy.

[mde2001]

That team looks good to me.

You'll obviously need to have other pokemon with you for a while as some of those are only available quite late in the game.

[TimTim]

Looks like a fun team, i dont know about many of the party members having 4x weaknesses tho~

[Sevonic]

Looks like a fun team, i dont know about many of the party members having 4x weaknesses tho~

It does give him a little extra challenge. You just REALLY have to know what you are doing.

[Dragon116]

Oh I forgot to mention this run is done, up to the end of E15. Prior I was running Vanilluxe, Gardevoir, Gallade, Krookodile, Magnezone, and Floatzel, with Prankster Meowstic for those walls. Bred Gardevior with Destiny Bond for those gimmick fights, but otherwise it served me very well. However, now I'm at the end of E15, time to upgrade.

And the 4x weakness doesn't bother me and they will likely not get sent out against those types. Hawklucha seems to be one of the few flaws I find in this team.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Dragon116

[Etesian]

I'll disagree with you saying "The Dark type is necessary", Psychic- and Ghost-types have been no issue whatsoever since Radomus. And for other Ice-types, Avalugg, Vanilluxe and Lapras are all pretty good.

-Avalugg gets a really strong Avalanche, Sturdy+Mirror Coat for all the "boss fights", access to Rock Slide/Stone Edge and Gyro Ball via E12-or-earlier breeding (check the pinned guide in this section for details, PM me if you need anything further clarified).

-Vanilluxe can increase both it's Defense and Speed by 50% in one turn with the combo of Weak Armor and Acid Armor, making it both fast and really hard to take down after 2-ish turns. It has perfect neutral coverage with Ice Beam+Water Pulse+Freeze-Dry and it also has Mirror Coat.

-Lapras isn't the strongest thing in the world right off the bat, but it has access to Dragon Dance, Curse and also has pretty alright coverage as a special attacker. You can run DD, Ice Shard, Waterfall, Body Slam/Facade/Bulldoze//Drill Run/Secret Power. You can run Curse, Avalanche, Waterfall, Ice Shard. You can run special with Surf/Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt/Psychic/Hidden Power/Ancient Power/Dragon Pulse/Freeze-Dry/Future Sight/Icy Wind/Perish Song.

All of these^^ hit at least equally as hard as Sneasel while actually being able to take a hit. Think about benching Sneasel till we can actually evolve it.

Next, about Sneasel itself, should you want to keep it. There's no real point in running Keen Eye on it, not like you'll have any Sand Attacks thrown at you at level 80 Pickpocket can both help get items from Wild Pokemon (like Heart Scales and Wide Lens) as well as borrow items from Gym Leaders (might grab some useful stuff like a Life Orb or something(just remember you can't keep items you steal from trainers)). For your Dark STAB, Bite can flinch your foe, which is neat when it happens, Sneasel isn't the type of thing that can take hits, it's really not a good idea to stay in and hope you can get a flinch against something that can kill you if you don't flinch it. Punishment has the same initial power as Bite, but it gains another 20 BP power for every stat-up the foe has. In other words, it has 60BP initially, but if the foe sets up a Swords Dance or something, Punishment has 100 BP (200 BP is the max BTW). Next up, get rid of Poison Jab. It really only hits Fairy types, which is a really physically frail type and you have a bunch of physical powerhouses. Alternatives would be X-Scissor to hit Dark types, Fake Out for some nice free damage or Ice Shard as a last ditch effort.

Aaaaaaand if you're looking just for Ice coverage instead of Ice STAB, there's Sheer Force Dragon Dance Feraligatr, that also gets Ice Punch.

That's really not an ideal Heracross set. Whatever you're trying to hit with Aerial Ace is hit harder or at least equally by your STAB moves (resisted CC is still 90 BP). Instead of Aerial Ace and Night Slash (which I doubt I need to say anything about), run either Earthquake and Rock Slide/Stone Edge (chain listed in the guide) or, since we're getting closer and closer to the end of the game and already have Heracronite, run Rock Blast and Bullet Seed (and Pin Missile instead of X-Scissor). And let's be real here, Heracross is definitely not the fastest thing in the world, run HP EVs instead of Speed.

Nor is it the best. I think you went wrong with Toxicroak. It's set of Bulk Up, Drain Punch, Poison Jab and Sucker Punch is really good. But if you really don't wanna try it again, people ask a lot about Fighting types, so I'll just copy-paste:

Now, for a Fighting type, there's 5 really good ones in Reborn, Hitmonlee, Toxicroak, Mienshao, Hawlucha and Scarfty. The only ones of those you can get right now are Toxicroak, Machamp and Scrafty, though you'd have to wait a few gyms more and you can get all of them, but you'd need to wait almost as long to get their best moves, like Dragon Dance on Scrafty. For movesets, best would be:

-Unburden, Blaze Kick, High Jump Kick, Bullet/Mach Punch, Thief (TM later) for Hitmonlee. Another option would be Reversal and Endure instead of High Jump Kick and Blaze Kick or the priority, that option lets you get the Unburden boost easier, though Gems are a thing, so it's no big deal anyways.

-Poison Touch, Poison Jab, Drain Punch, Sucker Punch, Bulk Up (E12) for Toxicroak. The chain for both Drain Punch and Bulk Up is in the guide.

-Reckless, High Jump Kick, Knock Off, Acrobatics(E12 or TM waaaaay later)/Poison Jab(E12)/Rock Slide (E12) for Mienshao (Farfetch'd for Knock Off, Acrobatics and/or Poison Jab, Camerupt>Donphan>Mienfoo for Knock Off and Rock Slide(Acrobatics is a TM you get way later)).

-Unburden, High Jump Kick, Acrobatics, Swords Dance/Poison Jab(E12)/Rock Slide(E12) for Hawlucha (just continue the chain for Mienshao to get these moves onto Hawlucha) (Feather Dance is also an option to make setting up stupidly easy, which is why I'd say it's the best Fighting type in the game right now)

-Moxie, Dragon Dance, Ice Punch, High Jump Kick, Crunch for Scrafty. Since this one doesn't have Unburden, you can give it a Wide Lens to make High Jump Kick 99% accurate.

-But if it's a Bug-type you want instead, Durant is by far the best you can get. This thing even swept Charlotte for me (as you'd expect from something with essentially 190 Base Attack due to Hustle). The ideal set is Hustle with Hone Claws(E12), Rock Slide(E12, chain for both in guide), X-Scissor, Iron Head.

For Hippowdon, Slack Off is a complete waste of a moveslot since we have actual healing items, Curse is bad since it has terrible Sp.Def and not even a priority move. Crunch also has pitiful coverage. Instead, there's the Elemental Fangs, Rock Slide/Stone Edge (E12), Yawn and Body Slam for some paras. You could also try a weird stall-y set of Stockpile, Toxic, Earthquake, Swagger.

Also, with your EVs, run HP instead of Defense. Faff about here, you can see that the difference between max HP and max Defense is really small, while HP helps you with taking special hits when you're forced to.

-You could also look into Stunfisk, since it's ideal Ability (Static) doesn't harm the rest of your team and has a high chance to para. It's also surprisingly bulky on both sides and gets status spam in with Sludge Bomb, Scald, Discharge and Yawn.

Grab a Buneary, evolve it, get it Return and breed Lopunny>Woobat/Farfetch'd>Starly to get Return onto Staraptor. It has exactly the same power as Reckless Take Down, but without any recoil. Or, if you get really really unlucky and your Mystery Egg happens to be Toge, get Double-Edge. And while Quick Attack can come in handy I guess, I'd run Thief (TM in E14). Just run those EVs, that's perfectly fine.

-And I think that's a bit too fast to dismiss Honchkrow. Most people don't like it cause of it's Speed, but it's simple. Just run Moxie with Tailwind, Drill Peck, Night Slash (and a Scope Lens to crit 50% of the time) and Sucker Punch. Set up Tailwind, spam away with Drill Peck and NS, get a few boosts like that, spam Sucker Punch once Tailwind is done. Though I'd still say Archeops is the best Flying type in the game, with Rock Slide, Acrobatics/Fly/Bounce, Earthquake (E12), Dragon Claw(give it a Wide Lens if you're not running RS). There's also Nasty Plot Crobat (with NP, Venoshock, Air Slash, Hidden Power Fighting/Ground (use this to know what IVs you want and the guide to see how to do it)), Guts Swellow (that has almost exactly as much power as Staraptor, but a lot more Speed, but no CC), Sigilyph (Cosmic Power, Stored Power, Charge Beam, Tailwind/Mirror Move/Trick Room) and the aforementioned Hawlucha.

Again, HP over Sp.Def. Also, Rotom really isn't the best thing to run in Reborn, especially cause it doesn't get the same toys that make ti so popular in comp, those being Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split. And it doesn't even hit that hard! I'd say use some other Fire or Electric type. For Fire types, there's Ninetales (ideally with Drought with Nasty Plot, Flamethrower, Energy Ball(E12), Hidden Power Rock) which works especially well with something I'll recommend a little bit later; there's Growlithe (CC, Outrage, Flare Blitz, Agility), Darmanitan (Flare Blitz, Dig(E12), Rock Slide(E12, chain for both in guide), Superpower), Delphox (Psychic/shock, Flamethrower, Grass Knot, Shadow Ball) and Chandelure (Flamethrower, Shadow Ball, Energy Ball(E12), Trick Room/Hidden Power/Minimize).

For Electric types, there's still Stunfisk, Galvantula (Discharge, Sticky Web, Bug Buzz, Energy Ball/Hidden Power), Eelektross (Coil, Spark/Iron Tail/Bounce/Crunch/Brick Break) and the best Electric type available, Heliolisk (Heliolisk works especially well if you have a Ninetales around, it gives it a 50% Sp.Atk boost with Solar Power. it also has coverage all Electric types (except for Eelektross) can only be jealous of, the set I run is Thunderbolt, Grass Knot, Dark Pulse, Hidden Power Ice (it gets Surf, but Sun weakens Water moves yet doesn't affect Ice).

I'd say ditch it. You say it's your Fairy counter, but like I said, you've can hit them hard on the physical side, on which they're veeeeery weak (and you might already have a counter to those anyways if you decided on Durant over Heracross (which, again, I'd really advise. you lose Fighting moves, but have plenty of other ways to hit the things Fighting hits anyways). And while it does have plentiful resistances, it's really slow and not even that bulky, so it'd do down soon enough. So I'd say run a combo of Ninetales instead of Rotom and Heliolisk instead of Magnezone.

If that doesn't appeal to you, Steel-type replacements would be Bisharp (SD, Rock Polish, Iron Head, Sucker Punch), Empoleon (Agility, Grass Knot, Scald/Surf, Ice Beam) or Excadrill if you keep Hippowdon (although it's best Steel STAB is Metal Claw, so think about it).

[TimTim]

I'll disagree with you saying "The Dark type is necessary", Psychic- and Ghost-types have been no issue whatsoever since Radomus. And for other Ice-types, Avalugg, Vanilluxe and Lapras are all pretty good.

-Avalugg gets a really strong Avalanche, Sturdy+Mirror Coat for all the "boss fights", access to Rock Slide/Stone Edge and Gyro Ball via E12-or-earlier breeding (check the pinned guide in this section for details, PM me if you need anything further clarified).

-Vanilluxe can increase both it's Defense and Speed by 50% in one turn with the combo of Weak Armor and Acid Armor, making it both fast and really hard to take down after 2-ish turns. It has perfect neutral coverage with Ice Beam+Water Pulse+Freeze-Dry and it also has Mirror Coat.

-Lapras isn't the strongest thing in the world right off the bat, but it has access to Dragon Dance, Curse and also has pretty alright coverage as a special attacker. You can run DD, Ice Shard, Waterfall, Body Slam/Facade/Bulldoze//Drill Run/Secret Power. You can run Curse, Avalanche, Waterfall, Ice Shard. You can run special with Surf/Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt/Psychic/Hidden Power/Ancient Power/Dragon Pulse/Freeze-Dry/Future Sight/Icy Wind/Perish Song.

All of these^^ hit at least equally as hard as Sneasel while actually being able to take a hit. Think about benching Sneasel till we can actually evolve it.

Next, about Sneasel itself, should you want to keep it. There's no real point in running Keen Eye on it, not like you'll have any Sand Attacks thrown at you at level 80 Pickpocket can both help get items from Wild Pokemon (like Heart Scales and Wide Lens) as well as borrow items from Gym Leaders (might grab some useful stuff like a Life Orb or something(just remember you can't keep items you steal from trainers)). For your Dark STAB, Bite can flinch your foe, which is neat when it happens, Sneasel isn't the type of thing that can take hits, it's really not a good idea to stay in and hope you can get a flinch against something that can kill you if you don't flinch it. Punishment has the same initial power as Bite, but it gains another 20 BP power for every stat-up the foe has. In other words, it has 60BP initially, but if the foe sets up a Swords Dance or something, Punishment has 100 BP (200 BP is the max BTW). Next up, get rid of Poison Jab. It really only hits Fairy types, which is a really physically frail type and you have a bunch of physical powerhouses. Alternatives would be X-Scissor to hit Dark types, Fake Out for some nice free damage or Ice Shard as a last ditch effort.

Aaaaaaand if you're looking just for Ice coverage instead of Ice STAB, there's Sheer Force Dragon Dance Feraligatr, that also gets Ice Punch.

That's really not an ideal Heracross set. Whatever you're trying to hit with Aerial Ace is hit harder or at least equally by your STAB moves (resisted CC is still 90 BP). Instead of Aerial Ace and Night Slash (which I doubt I need to say anything about), run either Earthquake and Rock Slide/Stone Edge (chain listed in the guide) or, since we're getting closer and closer to the end of the game and already have Heracronite, run Rock Blast and Bullet Seed (and Pin Missile instead of X-Scissor). And let's be real here, Heracross is definitely not the fastest thing in the world, run HP EVs instead of Speed.

Nor is it the best. I think you went wrong with Toxicroak. It's set of Bulk Up, Drain Punch, Poison Jab and Sucker Punch is really good. But if you really don't wanna try it again, people ask a lot about Fighting types, so I'll just copy-paste:

Now, for a Fighting type, there's 5 really good ones in Reborn, Hitmonlee, Toxicroak, Mienshao, Hawlucha and Scarfty. The only ones of those you can get right now are Toxicroak, Machamp and Scrafty, though you'd have to wait a few gyms more and you can get all of them, but you'd need to wait almost as long to get their best moves, like Dragon Dance on Scrafty. For movesets, best would be:

-Unburden, Blaze Kick, High Jump Kick, Bullet/Mach Punch, Thief (TM later) for Hitmonlee. Another option would be Reversal and Endure instead of High Jump Kick and Blaze Kick or the priority, that option lets you get the Unburden boost easier, though Gems are a thing, so it's no big deal anyways.

-Poison Touch, Poison Jab, Drain Punch, Sucker Punch, Bulk Up (E12) for Toxicroak. The chain for both Drain Punch and Bulk Up is in the guide.

-Reckless, High Jump Kick, Knock Off, Acrobatics(E12 or TM waaaaay later)/Poison Jab(E12)/Rock Slide (E12) for Mienshao (Farfetch'd for Knock Off, Acrobatics and/or Poison Jab, Camerupt>Donphan>Mienfoo for Knock Off and Rock Slide(Acrobatics is a TM you get way later)).

-Unburden, High Jump Kick, Acrobatics, Swords Dance/Poison Jab(E12)/Rock Slide(E12) for Hawlucha (just continue the chain for Mienshao to get these moves onto Hawlucha) (Feather Dance is also an option to make setting up stupidly easy, which is why I'd say it's the best Fighting type in the game right now)

-Moxie, Dragon Dance, Ice Punch, High Jump Kick, Crunch for Scrafty. Since this one doesn't have Unburden, you can give it a Wide Lens to make High Jump Kick 99% accurate.

-But if it's a Bug-type you want instead, Durant is by far the best you can get. This thing even swept Charlotte for me (as you'd expect from something with essentially 190 Base Attack due to Hustle). The ideal set is Hustle with Hone Claws(E12), Rock Slide(E12, chain for both in guide), X-Scissor, Iron Head.

For Hippowdon, Slack Off is a complete waste of a moveslot since we have actual healing items, Curse is bad since it has terrible Sp.Def and not even a priority move. Crunch also has pitiful coverage. Instead, there's the Elemental Fangs, Rock Slide/Stone Edge (E12), Yawn and Body Slam for some paras. You could also try a weird stall-y set of Stockpile, Toxic, Earthquake, Swagger.

Also, with your EVs, run HP instead of Defense. Faff about here, you can see that the difference between max HP and max Defense is really small, while HP helps you with taking special hits when you're forced to.

-You could also look into Stunfisk, since it's ideal Ability (Static) doesn't harm the rest of your team and has a high chance to para. It's also surprisingly bulky on both sides and gets status spam in with Sludge Bomb, Scald, Discharge and Yawn.

Grab a Buneary, evolve it, get it Return and breed Lopunny>Woobat/Farfetch'd>Starly to get Return onto Staraptor. It has exactly the same power as Reckless Take Down, but without any recoil. Or, if you get really really unlucky and your Mystery Egg happens to be Toge, get Double-Edge. And while Quick Attack can come in handy I guess, I'd run Thief (TM in E14). Just run those EVs, that's perfectly fine.

-And I think that's a bit too fast to dismiss Honchkrow. Most people don't like it cause of it's Speed, but it's simple. Just run Moxie with Tailwind, Drill Peck, Night Slash (and a Scope Lens to crit 50% of the time) and Sucker Punch. Set up Tailwind, spam away with Drill Peck and NS, get a few boosts like that, spam Sucker Punch once Tailwind is done. Though I'd still say Archeops is the best Flying type in the game, with Rock Slide, Acrobatics/Fly/Bounce, Earthquake (E12), Dragon Claw(give it a Wide Lens if you're not running RS). There's also Nasty Plot Crobat (with NP, Venoshock, Air Slash, Hidden Power Fighting/Ground (use this to know what IVs you want and the guide to see how to do it)), Guts Swellow (that has almost exactly as much power as Staraptor, but a lot more Speed, but no CC), Sigilyph (Cosmic Power, Stored Power, Charge Beam, Tailwind/Mirror Move/Trick Room) and the aforementioned Hawlucha.

Again, HP over Sp.Def. Also, Rotom really isn't the best thing to run in Reborn, especially cause it doesn't get the same toys that make ti so popular in comp, those being Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split. And it doesn't even hit that hard! I'd say use some other Fire or Electric type. For Fire types, there's Ninetales (ideally with Drought with Nasty Plot, Flamethrower, Energy Ball(E12), Hidden Power Rock) which works especially well with something I'll recommend a little bit later; there's Growlithe (CC, Outrage, Flare Blitz, Agility), Darmanitan (Flare Blitz, Dig(E12), Rock Slide(E12, chain for both in guide), Superpower), Delphox (Psychic/shock, Flamethrower, Grass Knot, Shadow Ball) and Chandelure (Flamethrower, Shadow Ball, Energy Ball(E12), Trick Room/Hidden Power/Minimize).

For Electric types, there's still Stunfisk, Galvantula (Discharge, Sticky Web, Bug Buzz, Energy Ball/Hidden Power), Eelektross (Coil, Spark/Iron Tail/Bounce/Crunch/Brick Break) and the best Electric type available, Heliolisk (Heliolisk works especially well if you have a Ninetales around, it gives it a 50% Sp.Atk boost with Solar Power. it also has coverage all Electric types (except for Eelektross) can only be jealous of, the set I run is Thunderbolt, Grass Knot, Dark Pulse, Hidden Power Ice (it gets Surf, but Sun weakens Water moves yet doesn't affect Ice).

I'd say ditch it. You say it's your Fairy counter, but like I said, you've can hit them hard on the physical side, on which they're veeeeery weak (and you might already have a counter to those anyways if you decided on Durant over Heracross (which, again, I'd really advise. you lose Fighting moves, but have plenty of other ways to hit the things Fighting hits anyways). And while it does have plentiful resistances, it's really slow and not even that bulky, so it'd do down soon enough. So I'd say run a combo of Ninetales instead of Rotom and Heliolisk instead of Magnezone.

If that doesn't appeal to you, Steel-type replacements would be Bisharp (SD, Rock Polish, Iron Head, Sucker Punch), Empoleon (Agility, Grass Knot, Scald/Surf, Ice Beam) or Excadrill if you keep Hippowdon (although it's best Steel STAB is Metal Claw, so think about it).

What nature for Avalugg would you suggest? I was thinking of careful nature to make up for its weak sp defense?

[Etesian]

What nature for Avalugg would you suggest? I was thinking of careful nature to make up for its weak sp defense?

The difference between a Sp.Def+ nature and a neutral one is only 19 points at level 100, not worthwhile. So I'd say Impish or Adamant, that's 40 Defense or 27 Attack at level 100, respectively. Or Relaxed/Brave instead, if you're running Gyro Ball.

[Dragon116]

Thank you very much for the evaluation. Just a few notes.

1. I'm trying to make a toolbox team that can face anything thrown at me, so even though Psychic and Fairy may not seem a major threat, I still want to make sure I have a STAB SE on them, or something similarly powerful (DD Feraligatr).

2. I also want to make a team as legitimate as possible (barring CE speedup), as such I'm not going to do E12 breeding.

Ice - Sneasel is definitely an option as floors 9 and 10 should be open at that time (assuming Ame doesn't laugh at us and have the department store out of stock). Keen Eye also ignores evasive boosts (no snow cloak/brightpowder bs). Avalugg might have Avalanche, but it's significantly weaker than Weavile in the offense department. It's defense is nice, but I rather not have more than 1 physical wall on my team. Offense wins battles, defense helps stall while you heal. Vanilluxe is actually a good idea while I wait for Razor Claw, so I'll use that idea as I already have one made.

Fighting - Toxicroak is 106 attack, 85 speed compared to 125 attack 85 speed Heracross. I'm failing to see the advantage of Toxicroak here, especially given Toxicroak's poor defenses. Hawlucha is the only one of these I can see using over Heracross because the duplicated Electric weakness is minor. I'll give it some thought,

Ground - I will remember that about HP ev, didn't think they'd be that helpful. A stall-y set actually seems like a good plan, but I'm thinking EQ, Ice Fang, Stockpile, Yawn. Ice Fang hits Ground and Flying for SE, which are 2 types it would be stalling against. Dragon and Grass just seem like they'd overwhelm Hippowdon. Fire Fang hits types Hippowdon is weak against, meaning it's get toasted due to that weak speed. Thunder Fang only hits Water and Flying for SE, so that's no good. Yawn over Toxic for all the sleep hax. EQ is the reason I don't want Stunfisk - No good Ground support.

Flying - Already running Archeops on my first run, wanted to try Staraptor for this one. In regards to Guts Swellow, it hits a lot lower than Staraptor does. BB on Staraptor (with Sharp Beak, because what else am I going to put on) does 169-199%, while Swellow(Toxic Orb) does 94.5-111%. In addition, Swellow has worse defensive stats than Staraptor, making it even more glass with less cannon. Honchkrow needs time to set up, and one of the best features of Staraptor is that it's able to just hammer out KOs on turn 1. NP Crobat, with 1 NP boost, is still 71-84%, and at 3 NP boosts it deals 143-168%, still less than Staraptor (although granted Sp.D is a lot easier to take advantage of). Sigilyph would also be interesting, but the set up time is not appealing.

Electric - After playing around on that calculator you linked, I see that Rotom, while defensive, really needs Leftovers to overcome it's failure to guarantee 2HKO. Drought Ninetales I forgot about (wasn't considering Fire types for obvious reasons), however Ninetales would be able to wreck Water types just as well as any Electric or Grass, so I'll drop Rotom for Ninetales.

Steel - Although a Special Attacker would be really nice, Durant seems to be the best for this role. Heliolisk is an option to combo with Ninetales, but I'd really like that dedicated Fairy check. I'm torn here.

So the planned team as it stands:

Vanilluxe (Weaville when able), Heracross, Hippowdon, Staraptor, Ninetales, Durant

Options:

-Heracross, +Hawlucha

-Durant, +Heliolisk

Main Issues:

Half team seriously weak to Fire.

Even more weak to Rock (likely outspeed however)

1 Special Attacker.

No Sp.D wall.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Dragon116

[Etesian]

I understand wanting to make a "toolbox", I've never ran more than 6 Pokemon, never had more than a single Ghost/Dark move, never had any issues whatsoever.

I'll mention that guide again, Avalugg does have a weaker attak stat, but it has the much stronger move, so, if Weavile and Avalugg have the same investment, Avalugg does more.

And by the way, this isn't comp. You really don't need any roles, any designated walls and whatnot. For as long as I've been playing Reborn, I've only ever used one wall (if you wanna call it that), everything else I've been using has been attack spammers like Archeops or set-up-ers like Lilligant. You really don't need to worry about having one too many walls if it's there cause it hits hard, which Avalugg definitely does.

Toxicroak has a typing that lets it set up Bulk Ups pretty easily so power is no issue, it gets Drain Punch to both attack and heal at the same time, isn't completely useless against faster thing because it has Sucker Punch which hits like a truck and Bulk Up with Defense investment lets it take almost any physical hit and heal up almost all damage with DP, has an ability that gives it a high 30% chance to poison on contact (44% for Poison Jab).

Keep STAB in mind. A neutral STAB EQ is 150 BP. An SE Ice Fang is 130, so running that for Ground types is pointless, and Rock moves are the better option against Flying types for higher power. I also see no point in Stockpile on this set. The Toxic one would be about taking any hit while letting Toxic whittle your foe's health down. With this, you have no reason not to just attack with Hippo and switch out to when you have a bad match-up.

Y'know, Stunfisk gets Earth Power.

You messed up that calc and didn't actually activate it's Guts (by selecting something other than "healthy" or "asleep" in the "Status" tab). Against the Abomasnow set that's given by default, Brave Bird from Swellow does 193.1 - 227.2%, while Staraptor's does 193.8 - 229.1%, so Staraptor has the slight edge, but Facade from Swellow does 112.3 - 132.1% while Staraptor's Double-Edge does 96.9 - 114.5%. And lets be real here, neither of them can take any hits, though Swellow outspeeds more, so more things get outsped and killed.

Dunno what you've got against needing time to set up with Honch. It's "set up" is literally just 1 turn for Tailwind, and what that does is making sure you outspeed everything for 4 turns, then making sure you kill anything in one hit.

Your call. Both have around the same Base offensive stat, both have an extra 50% power boost (Hustle and Solar Power), but Durant can set up even more after that (Heliolisk can also do that with Charge Beam, but it's not guaranteed to work and it can't take a hit(especially because of SP draining it's health each turn)). Honestly, I'd make room for both, because they're both incredibly good.

For your issues, like I said, Durant swept the Fire gym for me, +1 Hustle Rock Slide is stupidly powerful. For Rock, as you say, you outspeed and can kill anything, especially considering the trash Sp.Def those have (so Stunfisk is even a more solid Rock check than Hippo). Doesn't matter how many physical or special attackers you have since they all hit incredibly hard and have great total coverage so you can hit super-effectively with something and if all else fails, walls really can't do all that much to you if you set up on them, so that's free set-up for Durant or Toxicroak. And you need no Sp.Def wall, like I said, offense spam has gotten me through the entire game multiple times without any trouble.

[TimTim]

Since this is not competitive play, you can invest Sp D EV on ninetales to wall sp attack major threat~ Better yet, you can add another mon that utilizes sandstorm to the fullest, esp mons with sand force, sand rush, or sand veil, namely sandslash , heliolisk with sand veil~

[Dragon116]

So thinking through this again, the ultimate plan is:

Mamoswine - Ice/Ground

Adamant - 252 Atk/252 HP/ 4 Def

Thick Fat

Avalanche, EQ, Ice Shard, Curse

- This is my Ice type foremost, enabling it to deal with Grass, Ground, Flying, and Dragon. Following the advice to add in Heliolisk, and the lack of Water weakness on my team, I dropped Hippowdon and Weavile for this. If Avalugg's Acalanche is strong, then Mamoswine's will be more so (especially with Adamant nature on base 130 Atk). Meanwhile EQ still gives that STAB EQ. Ice Shard will be useful if a priority move is needed. I still need a 4th move though, and Curse to boost Atk and Def for that powerful Avalanche.

Hawlucha - Fighting/Flying

Adamant - 252 Atk/ 136 HP / 120 Speed

Unburden

Acrobatics, High Jump Kick, Swords Dance, Feather Dance

- This is my Fighting type foremost, hitting SE on Normal, Ice, Rock, Dark, and Steel (Those last 2 are especially pesky to deal with). Heracross's Bug type is getting moved to Durant, so why have more than 1? Although I have 2 Flying types on my team now, Hawlucha's Atk is close to Heracross's, but the speed is the fastest possible thanks to Unburden. Feather Dance, as stated earlier, makes it ridiculously easy to set up. Granted it will be 3 turns before it gets full value (Feather Dance, Swords Dance, Gem Unburden), it seems worth it. Could skip set up all together and just go into attacking, since Hawlucha has enough attack to threaten right out of the gate. 120 Speed EV should let it outpace everything until Unburden kicks in to double its speed. 252 Speed EV is just overkill, and 120 might not be the right number, but at level 100 it has 302 speed with 120 EV. Rest of the EV I just dumped into HP.

Heliolisk - Electric/Normal

Timid - 252 Sp.A/252 Spe/4 HP

Solar Power

Thunderbolt, HP Ice, Grass Knot, Electroweb

- The Electric type to handle Water types, and support Flying types. Combos really easily with Ninetales, and is a special attacker. The moveset seems solid for coverage.

Staraptor - Flying/Normal

Reckless

Adamant - 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP

Close Combat, Brave Bird, Quick Attack, Endeavor

- The Flying type to handle Fighting and Bug, and supporting Grass (Mamoswine, Staraptor, Hawlucha). Tied with Archeops for the destructive glass cannon opener. I just want this thing to be my lead when I enter fights that I have no idea about. Fly was added because Double-Edge is pointless, and a Fly user is always handy.

Ninetales - Fire

Drought

Timid - 252 Sp.A/252 Speed/4 HP

Flamethrower, HP Rock, Nasty Plot, Baby Doll Eyes/Captivate

- The Drought abuser to combo with Heliolisk. Max Speed investment should provide enough outspeeding to get a Nasty Plot off and then start wrecking. HP investment would reduce damage, but not enough to avoid a 2HKO in many cases. I'll stick to Mamoswine as the wall. Baby Doll Eyes/Captivate because no Energy Ball. Baby Doll Eyes has priority though, so that's handy.

Durant - Steel/Bug

Hustle

Jolly - 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 HP

Iron Head, X-Scissor, ???, ???

- The Steel type to handle Fairy types. The Bug type handles Psychics and supports Grass. Can't use Hone Claws or Rock Slide without E12 breeding, which I would prefer not to do. I could run Iron Defense, but I think Fairy and Psychic usually hit Sp.D. Agility is another option to make sure it outspeeds everything.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Dragon116

[Etesian]

I dunno about running Avalanche on Mamo since speedy is usually the way to run it, but whatever works. Actually, what would really work on this is Curse, since you're taking hits for Avalanche anyways and Ice+Ground is coverage only resisted by Surskit, the top tier threat Other options include Body Slam for paras and Rock moves TMs.

By the way, Avalanche has negative priority, so no reason to run Brave.

...not even addressing my points about Toxicroak and Swellow (and you even end up using something that sets up 3 times longer than Honchkrow), but whatever floats your boat, it's your team. And about Double-Edge being pointless? It's your freaking STAB! I'd also like to say that Fly isn't something you can find yourself randomly needing in the middle of a cave or whatever, you really don't need it on something that's a constant member of your team (especially since HMs are TMs since E15, so that makes finding a good "HM slave" even easier). But if you're really really really set on not running Return/Double-Edge on Staraptor, at least give it Thief or Endeavor.
And what's with the super-specific EVs on Hawlucha?

You're never gonna be using Dark Pulse on Heliolisk, so I'd say use the tutor for Electroweb since your team might have Speed troubles if Durant and Hawlucha go down. Or give breed for Glare, you can change between that and Dark Pulse on the fly since E15 made it so you can Heart Scale moves you hatched stuff with. Another option is Charge Beam to give it a shot at a +1 or Parabolic Charge to heal off the Solar Power damage, and it'd still hit pretty hard in Sunlight.

Run Timid on Ninetales. The lower a base stat, the less points you gain from a +Nature. That, and 100 Base Speed isn't good enough not to run Timid (which is also why I'd recommend Jolly on Staraptor). And you have Nasty Plot anyways.

Durant's best set by far is STABs, Hone Claws(E12), Rock Slide(E12). I'd run Jolly since this thing definitely doesn't have power issues.

[Dragon116]

Adjusted previous post to fix Mamoswine, Ninetales, and Durant.

Here's what I'm looking at in comparing Hawlucha and Toxicroak. Primary point is to kill Normal, Ice, Rock, Dark, and Steel types. Toxicroak is slower than most of these types, and almost all have the ability to one shot Toxicroak with Psychic, Flying, or Ground attacks before it's even able to set up a Bulk Up. If it does use Sucker Punch, it hits hard but not OHKO hard. Hawlucha is faster than almost all these types, and has the speed to Feather Dance them into weakness, or HJK them into submission right off the bat. If Hawlucha fails to do that, however, it's weak to Electric, Ice, Flying, Psychic, and Fairy, which are pretty common. Hawlucha just looks more advantageous to me.

Swellow and Honchkrow are in competition with Staraptor for the Flying role (yes I'm determined to have roles), not Hawlucha for the Fighting role, so the comparison is moot. Staraptor still beats Swellow in Neutral and Resistant cases (even in your super effective comparison, Staraptor had a slight edge). Honchkrow requires 1 turn Tailwind and at least 1 KO for Moxie boost to match the out-the-gate wrecking force of Staraptor.

Double-Edge (or any Normal attack) is pointless because the only thing resistant to Brave Bird that isn't resistant to Double-Edge is Electric type. Staraptor would be slaughtered mercilessly against Electric, and would only be brought out in a clutch moment. Endeavor over Fly seems like a good plan. It will be holding Sharp Beak, so Thief is not a good option.

Hawlucha's specific EVs are so it doesn't over-invest in Speed, since it gets doubled thanks to Unburden. 120 may not be the right number, but at level 100 it has 302 speed. Not sure how to evaluate it to get most coverage.

Went with Electroweb on Heliolisk because you can never have too much speed support (especially without a T-Wave user in the team). Ninetales and Durant changes above.

[Dragon116]

Just found out Mamoswine doesn't have access to Avalanche without TM72 from gen 4. Meaning I have to go with Icicle Crash. Sob

Also going with Mist (Terrain Change) instead of Curse, since there's no use in Curse without Avalanche.

Totally forgot about Smeargle. Yay! Plan is still good.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Dragon116