Possibility of New Reborn Online League

[mde2001]

This thread is discussing the idea of a new league for the Reborn Community. It is by no means the old official league (however it still will only be created with Amethyst's permission). Thanks for pointing out that I hadn't made this clear Kurotsone.

Okay, so after I made a status update about the online league today I thought that maybe it was time for a thread.

We were discussing the possibility of a new online Reborn League being created and the practicalities of it. Lots of people sounded really keen on the idea of having a new run of the league so I thought it would be best to have a place to discuss the idea.

So the point of this thread is to discuss the practicalities of it or whether you would like to see it happen.

Older members will probably be able to shed some light on whether it is practical to even think of doing this (I know Hukuna made some very valid points in the status comments). And if people do think it is a good idea there can be discussion over how it could work and where it would be held (for example it seems like Pokemon Online has a sour history with Reborn- I'm not sure why).

Obviously leaders of this league wouldn't be incorporated into the game as it would be more for people who are around now to have fun with if it did happen.

So this topic is pretty much just a discussion about the idea of a new reborn league being made so doesn't really have any set direction that the conversation must flow.

I can't wait to hear ideas and discussion about it!

Edited September 21, 2015 by mde2001

[dead account]

I was kind of disappointed that I wasn't around for the Reborn online league when it was still a thing. It seemed like fun.

I would like to know what it was about Pokemon Online that makes this sort of thing possible, as opposed to Showdown.

[Nova]

Ame did state that she had no intentions of fixing/re-starting the league. I don't know whether or not she minds US trying to re-do the league thing, so...

I don't know if any of the old leaders are still on the forums, but since I have never seen one, I doubt that's the case. That should be no problem, though, it won't be hard to find forum people that would be willing to take those roles.

Whatever system Ame used for the badges was for Pokemon Online only, so it probably won't work for Showdown. What we could do, however, is keeping track of it manually with the following:

-Players make their Trainer Cards as they used to with the old League.

-Players show their Trainer Card images to the leader they're battling.

-If the challenger wins, the Leader puts their Badge graphic in the Trainer Card image using a simple image editing program, then returns the new version to the player.

-The player puts the Trainer Card, with new Badge, in their signature.

This should work perfectly, but it is very vulnerable to abuse; What would block a player from simply editing in all the badges themselves? To solve this, we could use several methods:

-Add some sort of "watermark" to the Trainer Cards that cannot be removed by anyone except the Gym Leaders, enabling only them to put in the Badges (If anyone else were to edit the watermark, it would be visible)

-The leaders keep a log of the battles (time, challenger, win/lose) and compare the data to see if players actually have the required badges. Might take some time from every battle to check the logs and everything, but should work just fine.

-The Trainer Card image would be a special file type that only the Gym Leaders have the tools for to edit. Only Trainer Cards with that file type would be accepted to show before battle.

There are enough ways to "revive" the league. It might take some more time to keep track of everything due to the lack of Ame's system, but together, this could be very possible. With Ame's permission, of course.

Let's hope this becomes a thing

[mde2001]

Yeah, we'd obviously need Ame's permission. I like all of your suggestions though Nova!

I think that the log is probably the most practical option of the badges system. It would be in combination with the editing program.

If this is given permission by Ame I'd be happy to buy as a room on Showdown that we could organise it through.

I was thinking with the log of challengers the leaders could have a google docs page with a list of members who had beaten them.

If we were to do it the way the original league worked we would have to rank the leaders in order (at least I think that this is how it worked) so that you have to be within three badges of the leader you are challenging.

If people want this to happen I'm happy to deal with the bulk of the organisation. I have quite a bit of free time for now!

Edited September 20, 2015 by mde2001

[Fumble]

If this does become a thing, should we retain the old rules? Like you can only challenge Leader ? after you have at least X badges? And no Megas or Legendaries?

Anyway, Showdown's tournaments don't really work for a League like this, so manual challenges will have to be done instead (or if we find something that can support it), which might be difficult since we have to make sure a Challenger has this many badges.

[mde2001]

If this does become a thing, should we retain the old rules? Like you can only challenge Leader ? after you have at least X badges? And no Megas or Legendaries?

Anyway, Showdown's tournaments don't really work for a League like this, so manual challenges will have to be done instead (or if we find something that can support it), which might be difficult since we have to make sure a Challenger has this many badges.

I'd vote for keeping most of the old rules. They seem pretty good to me.

The leaders could create a database on who had beaten them allowing the higher ranked leaders to have a list of challengers eligible to challenge them. It isn't a very efficient method though...

[DashingStorm]

I mean- There was an idea floating around of creating one and we (myself including a handful of others) actually put together a new League concept already.

But we sorta just- Stopped.

We had a few badges designed, a system and a new theme too.

I'll see if I can get in touch with everyone and see whether they want to pick up where we left off or just abandon the entire thing.

[Hexagoen]

I would be down for a new league! The problem, like a bunch of us have already stated, is obvious issues such as schedules coding the thing and, well to see if people are interested in the thing.

Good luck to all in attempting to make a new league

[Juniper]

Seems obvious to me that there are already a decent amount of people interested, right?

And if it becomes "a Thing" on the forums, I'm sure it'll attract even more attention.

Like Aqua said, I didn't get a chance to experience this either (Though I am still relatively new)

It's certainly an interesting concept to me.

Not only do I want to see this succeed though,

I'm also willing to help out if I can

good luck and whatnot.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Older members will probably be able to shed some light on whether it is practical to even think of doing this (I know Hakuna made some very valid points in the status comments). And if people do think it is a good idea there can be discussion over how it could work and where it would be held (for example it seems like Pokemon Online has a sour history with Reborn- I'm not sure why).

That's spelled with a U thank you very much.

Anyway joking aside I believe the reason for the move form PO was due to the fact that they decided to stop updating for the Linux OS or were at least a few versions behind etc as this is what Ame's Operating system was and due to this if you updated PO you couldn't access the server for Reborn anymore. This of course... caused a lot of issues and since they weren't really making any progress to change that. ((and it was evident they were going to really try.)) Thus, we moved to PS. That's how I remember it anyway, trust me it's wasn't an easy decision and there was quite a heated discussion over it between the members at the time since a lot didn't want to move while just as many didn't mind it. It was sorta a big mess.

Now onto another point... I'm not sure how much work you guys think this is or not but it is a giant amount of work without all those automated systems in place. Without the queues for battles you going to have to set-up all the match by hand, then have people that are on hand remembering what order people are in, then people remembering who has battled already tonight to not put them back in the queue. Then you or the gymleaders have to remember who won and who lost while they are constantly being bombarded by battles they need to complete. It should be noted also that Gym Leaders need to be anonymous and not ahve their face to their Gym Leader character because people will harass them non-stop when they aren't doing gym battles and in general jsut will be pestered non-stop. Trust me... people don't have self=control and if it gets big enough the server will be a living hell for those people if they are known.

THis is without someway to keep track of all the badges in a neat and concise manner, without someway before the battle to know what badges these people have right away rather than background checking them every time before a battle. ((because you can;t just check their REborn Profile, those wouldn't update the badges anymore.))

Trust me... there's too much work here for you guys and your not going to enjoy running it at all. The Automated systems were in place for a reason. They made everything smooth and not a mess. Them breaking the first time is the reason there is no longer a League, because without them it's a giant mess for the players, for the management and for the Leaders. There's no possible way this is doable. You guys are human after all. Just let the idea go. You going to dig up a corpse and not be happy with the results after desecrating it's grave. Leave it at rest and don't dig it back up. It's not worth the trouble, the grief, and the chaos that will come afterwards.

Every other project that tried to emulate League, died horribly, hell half of them never even got started after a week or 2 they gave up on it becuase it was too much damn work. Don;t try and bring back the Reborn league because this will never be that league. It will never live up to that and it will never deserve that name in the eyes of those that were here during those days. So, if you make it a separate project under a different banner, by all means go ahead. But, leave the Reborn League where it is, it's not worth the trouble. You'll never be what it was... so don't try and be it.

[mde2001]

Hmmm, once again Hukuna (sorry for the prior mispelling) makes some very valid points.

I guess given that most of us weren't around in the time of the actual league we don't really know how it worked or how amazing it was.

I think you are right about it never being able to live up to the initial league so if we do go ahead with this it should be rebranded as something else so that it is a league for the members of our community rather than the Reborn League.

Your points about automation are clearly valid too. To have it work we'd have to have made a list before battles commence of people who were planning on battling each leader on the night rather than having them join a queue at the time.

I'm interested in your point about the anonymity of leaders though. Were they all anonymous back in the original league? You'd hope that people would have enough self control not to annoy them but you are probably right that it would add extra difficulty.

[Deleted User]

Well a big part of it had to do with the lack of ability to generate trainer cards and changes something something python coding something something Nyu.

Would we even have enough people who'd want to challenge the league anymore? There's a whole bunch of things that need to be asked, but that one is one of the most important. Is there sufficient interest in it?

[mde2001]

Well a big part of it had to do with the lack of ability to generate trainer cards and changes something something python coding something something Nyu.

Would we even have enough people who'd want to challenge the league anymore? There's a whole bunch of things that need to be asked, but that one is one of the most important. Is there sufficient interest in it?

I've added a poll to the topic to gauge interest in the community for the hypothetical league.

[InnocentSerenity]

Honestly, i don't know much about the actual Reborn League, but I would've loved to been able to challenge it. I may not have the competitive knowledge to do well, but I'd love to at least watch the battles.

I do hope I can see something similar to maybe take part in. I'll wait for the day you possibly go through with it.

[Flux]

I agree that this should be under a different banner than the old League, but I wouldn't call it impossible. As I've said earlier, I would love to volunteer as a leader, and also to help with organization if this gets rolling. It will take some manual work, yes, but it's not as bad as people make it sound. Here are some regulations that I think would make things more manageable.

1. There must be an order in which gym leaders can be challenged, based on the overall skill of the leader compared with the typing. (Some types are obviously just easier to beat than others.) We could do tiers of leaders, such as two or three gym leaders that can be challenged from the start, and then two or three more who can be challenged with one badge, etc. This would prevent leaders from being completely overwhelmed with challengers, which leads to my next point.

2. Set some kind of limit as to the number of challenges a leader will take per night. It may take some experimentation to find the right number, but I think this would work. This again prevents leaders from being overwhelmed, and it allows them time to finish up whatever concerns the real world may bring them as well. There would also have to be a time zone in which a leader is open for challenges. I imagine these would be specifically tailored to the leaders' schedules, so as to make it easiest for them to accept challengers.

3. For a badge system, leaders would be required to keep track of who beat them. This is by no means a difficult task. Simply write down the names of those who win in a notepad, or a Word doc or anything you won't lose, really. We could report the results to a main thread on the forums so everyone can see who has made it where in the league. With a limited number of challengers per night, this would be an easy task.

4. As for trainer cards, we could attempt to revive them with Ame's approval, but I don't think they're really necessary if things are being kept track of in a main thread. They would be a cool bonus, rather than a necessity. That could be looked into further.

5. And as I've mentioned so many times already, just keep track of things in one main thread. It would have a list of challengers and their place in the league, so it would be public knowledge as to who has beaten what leader. This removes the necessity of dealing with an automated trainer card.

6. We would need volunteers for leaders. They would need to realize that this is a strict commitment, and know that if they are consistently unable to deliver what is expected of them, they may be replaced by a leader who can keep up with the schedule. They would also need to show proficient aptitude with the type they volunteer for, or at least moreso than the other volunteers for that type.

7. League would reset at the end of every "season," which would be a predetermined length of time. I don't remember exactly how long the Reborn League seasons lasted, but we could use a similiar system. Those who conquered the entire league would be remembered in a separate hall of fame.

That's what came to mind initially for me. Like I said, it's a commitment, but by no means impossible, nor as hard as some make it sound.

[Chevaleresse]

Moving to Hall of Champions.

[mde2001]

Flux, I agree with everything you said in the comment.

I really think we can make this happen guys! If we go on what has been going on in the thread we won't have much trouble finding leaders if it does happen. I can deal with a lot of organisation and be a leader and it seems like a lot of people would be happy to help with either organisation or being a leader.

I don't think we need a trainer card system and we can just record it. We could limit the challenges of leaders to 20 or so a night.

We could have the tournaments on a room in the smogon server.

Really the only problem at the moment is working out how to make a list of challengers for each night.

[Yours Truly]

well If this thing actually get's started It would be great you could probably expect to see me as part of the hordes of people clamoring to be a gym leader or as a challenger, seems really interesting hope ame gives her approval

[Guzam]

Guys, please. The league can't happen quite yet...

We even agreed to wait until RCBA was over

[Dark Desire]

Guys, please. The league can't happen quite yet...

We even agreed to wait until RCBA was over

it looks like they still have a lot of planning to do so I doubt things will coincide with each other

As one of the few remaining line hosts still active from the online league, I can attest to how much work running a league can be, many hours each day were spent focused on it even with an automated system

Some concerns I see off the back is challengers, I'm assuming a huge part of you guys want to help with this and I know you don't want to be battling yourselves, PO league had nearly twice the amount of users online during league times then we currently get on PS during peak hours

Another issue I potentially see is that we're currently not in summer anymore, a ton of you will be busy with school and won't be able to focus all your time for a league, also unlike PO, PS reborn doesn't have a huge competitive following like we use too

Some suggestions would be to start small, possibly do something similar to the Reborn Frontier that AO had made for PRCL, only host league on weekends, this would be better for those who have shit to do on the weekdays

Honesty I don't see this going anywhere arm, I've seen way to many things like this try to work during better parts of the year, but if you guys need someone to look over your finished concept, I'd be glad to look at it

Ps: Google docs will be your best friend during this, I can't even remember if it was a thing yet when online league was around

[mde2001]

it looks like they still have a lot of planning to do so I doubt things will coincide with each other

As one of the few remaining line hosts still active from the online league, I can attest to how much work running a league can be, many hours each day were spent focused on it even with an automated system

Some concerns I see off the back is challengers, I'm assuming a huge part of you guys want to help with this and I know you don't want to be battling yourselves, PO league had nearly twice the amount of users online during league times then we currently get on PS during peak hours

Another issue I potentially see is that we're currently not in summer anymore, a ton of you will be busy with school and won't be able to focus all your time for a league, also unlike PO, PS reborn doesn't have a huge competitive following like we use too

Some suggestions would be to start small, possibly do something similar to the Reborn Frontier that AO had made for PRCL, only host league on weekends, this would be better for those who have shit to do on the weekdays

Honesty I don't see this going anywhere arm, I've seen way to many things like this try to work during better parts of the year, but if you guys need someone to look over your finished concept, I'd be glad to look at it

Ps: Google docs will be your best friend during this, I can't even remember if it was a thing yet when online league was around

Thanks for offering to look over a finished concept.

I don't see any problem with it not starting until the RCBA is over.

You're right about a smaller competitive battling community but this league probably wouldn't be quite as hard as the initial one so some people may challenge it without being competitive battling experts.

I wasn't around in the time of the initial league. Would there be more members of our community (not necessarily on showdown) than during the online league.

I didn't think about the summer thing- as I'm in Australia I don't really think about American holiday times.

[Nova]

As said before, it's best to start small, only doing League hours on the weekends. Hopefully we can have two different timezones - American and European - for people to challenge different Leaders, since the inability to access the American times meant I could not challenge the league, even though I was a member when the League was still there. And we should possibly limit the amount of challengers each night to something like 25/50/100, slowly raising the limit as we find better ways to do the progress.

There should be plenty of programs out there we can use to keep track of queues and logs of win/losses, so that should be no problem. If we can't find any, a simple Word document should suffice too.

It's likely the Reborn League won't return to its former glory, especially not early on, but we can at least try to give the Reborn League experience to those who missed it and see where we get from there.

I support this project, and I volunteer to be a Gym Leader and League manager as well.

[Sparky]

I wouldn't mind seeing a new version of the Reborn league to be brought up. I was one of the few that did discuss a similar idea with Pyrr, Dash, and others. We do have a few badges and all made as well. I can picture this doing alright with starting out small and such.

[mde2001]

As said before, it's best to start small, only doing League hours on the weekends. Hopefully we can have two different timezones - American and European - for people to challenge different Leaders, since the inability to access the American times meant I could not challenge the league, even though I was a member when the League was still there. And we should possibly limit the amount of challengers each night to something like 25/50/100, slowly raising the limit as we find better ways to do the progress.

There should be plenty of programs out there we can use to keep track of queues and logs of win/losses, so that should be no problem. If we can't find any, a simple Word document should suffice too.

It's likely the Reborn League won't return to its former glory, especially not early on, but we can at least try to give the Reborn League experience to those who missed it and see where we get from there.

I support this project, and I volunteer to be a Gym Leader and League manager as well.

Time zones are going to be tricky but I think Leaders will have to operate in their time zones and challengers may have to work around it. This may complicate things somewhat as we won't be able to have one set time where challengers can challenge any gym leader but it might make organisation easier as we might only have one or two leaders on at a time.

I think we can get this to work. Thanks for volunteering to help manage the league Nova. We'll defiantly need several manages so it would be great to have you on board. I don't think we are quite at the stage of finding leaders yet but if you are helping manage it you are pretty much guaranteed a spot as a leader I would think.

We'll have to start of small but I think we can get this going. So anyone who is interested in helping get this started post here and we'll find some way of communicating effectively (whether it is in a group PM or just in this thread).

It is cool to see all of this interest.

I'm not sure how we should organise getting this lea

[AuthorReborn]

I like the idea of a league and I've actually been craving a similar challenge for a while now, but I can't see myself being available for much of the coming months with school and other commitments popping up. If it this were to begin in May or so, I could certainly get behind it and support it more, but as it stands, this is just kinda the wrong time of year to be starting a league that requires 18 gym leaders, managers, and a plethora of challengers. The Gym leaders I'm sure would be slowly selected from the existing community and the managers would be those who truly had a lot of time to dedicate to a project of this scale, but the challengers would be a problem. There are only so many people who play Reborn and only a small portion of those actually participate in the community and hang out with us on PS. If we were to do this, the time of year would have to be a little better and we'd likely have to attempt to draw in PokeTubers to advertise the league as "a challenging test of one's true master of Pokemon." Granted, PokeTubers have given coverage to the community before in the forms of play-throughs of Reborn and Rejuvenation (as well as the other fan versions that have sprouted and taken root in the Fan Game Expose), but this is slightly different. I wish you folks luck and I ask that you keep these things in mind as you advance with your plans. I'm rooting for your success even if I don't have the time to dedicate that the idea deserves.

Although, I do support what Hakuna said earlier about calling it a different name as it seems that while you attempt to emulate the former league as much as you can, there is only so much you can restore and the rest must be filled in with newer, updated bits. Maybe call it "The Phoenix League," in reference to its roots in the Reborn league while still establishing itself as a different, and unique, entity? It's up to you though.