Cassius Tain Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Well, the Title says everything. Basically this is my first competiive Team that doesn't get oblitterated by everything that it has to face. I just wanted to see, how I'd do in a competitive battle and created a Team losely using the HO Tread as a basis. I somehow ended up with a Monotype so I thoght "Hell why not?" and tried it. Next came some fiddling and twiddling and piddling and this is what it currently looks like. I am not entirely satisfied, so I hope for some suggestions. Mega Flare: The Idea: Well, Basically, what does every Fire type like the most? Right, when It's nice and warm. So Drought Ninetails will make the sun shine while offering some supporting moves from its diversive movepool Now to the main force. Quiver Dance Volcarona and Mega Charizard-Y both have a disastrous Special Attack while offering a nice variety of moves. Also Mega Charizard-Y too has the Ability Drought to keep the sun from setting when the battle lasts a little longer (He's like the Snickers of my Team) So, A pretty solid Special Attacking force, but Oh No! What if I run into a special wall? Well, That's what Arcanine is for. Access to a nice Variety of Physical Moves and a solid Speed make him not only a good physical attacker, but also a great revenge killer. Extreme Speed helps a lot with the latter. Now with the offense taken care of it's time to think about the defense. Because of the Team being all fire types, Stealth Rock is a pretty dangerous thing to have on your side of the field. So we need a defogger or rapid spinner. Because It is crucial for me to always have Stealth rocks on the other side of the field however, I have to go for Rapid spin. And there is no other Fire type than Torkoal, that can learn it. Now to the last Pokemon and the one I feel the most unsatisfied with so far. Camerupt is pretty bulky and has a good Sp Attack. It also learns the Move Stealth Rock, Earth Power and Flash cannon, covering a good amount of weaknesses, while at the same time being pretty resistant to the common counters for fire types. Analysis: This is going to be bad Sheila (Torkoal) (F) @ Leftovers Ability: Shell Armor EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD Sassy Nature IVs: 0 Spe - Stealth Rock - Lava Plume - Sunny Day - Rapid Spin Usually being the Lead, setting up Stealth Rock and (if taken damage is low enough) Sunny day, before Rapid Spinning away the opponents Hazards. with a still not to underestimate special attack she is able to do some massive damage to some spin blockers while tanking theirs, forcing them to switch out and then spinning anyway. Vixi (Ninetales) (F) @ Heat Rock Ability: Drought EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def Calm Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Flamethrower - Will-O-Wisp - Solar Beam - Hypnosis secondary lead and support she goes in first against Teams that are too dangerous to let them set up. With Drought setting up most of what I need and Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers and Hypnosis to sleep the target her main objective is to give Volcarona time to set up one or two quiver dances. Also perfect lead for setting up against water type monotypes, because of the Sunny Day, Solar Beam combo. Dorn (Charizard-Mega-Y) (M) @ Charizardite Y Ability: Solar Power EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Air Slash - Fire Blast - Solar Beam - Dragon Pulse The Mega of the Team. Fast Special sweeper with Fire Blast and Air Slash as STAB moves and Solar Beam and Dragon Pulse as coverage. probably the most straight forward in the whole team. Mothra (Volcarona) (F) @ Life Orb Ability: Flame Body EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest Nature - Fiery Dance - Giga Drain - Quiver Dance - Hidden Power [ice] There is not much to say about Volcarona: Con: She needs one turn to set up with quiver dance Pro: after that she just burns through enemy teams like a Flamethrower through paper. With Fiery Dance as a strong STAB move that further boosts her Special Attack and Giga Drain to restore the HP lost through the Life orb it is difficult to get around her once she got the tempo up. HP Ice is a nice coverage ove to deal with nasty dragon types and Flamebody hopefully cripples any Revenge killer that managed to hit her. Rexy (Arcanine) (M) @ Choice Scarf Ability: Flash Fire EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Extreme Speed - Close Combat - Wild Charge - Flare Blitz Choice scarfed Physical sweeper/revenge killer. Extreme speed guarantees that he'll outspeed even the fastest opponent. Urmel (Camerupt) (F) @ Passho Berry Ability: Solid Rock EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Earth Power - Lava Plume - Stone Edge - Flash Cannon Camerupt. Nice bulk and a good coverage with stone edge and flash cannon. the Passho Berry along with Solid Rock pretty much guarantees her to survive switching into a strong water type move. Export: Sheila (Torkoal) (F) @ Leftovers Ability: Shell Armor EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD Sassy Nature IVs: 0 Spe - Stealth Rock - Lava Plume - Sunny Day - Rapid Spin Vixi (Ninetales) (F) @ Heat Rock Ability: Drought EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def Calm Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Flamethrower - Will-O-Wisp - Solar Beam - Hypnosis Dorn (Charizard-Mega-Y) (M) @ Charizardite Y Ability: Solar Power EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Air Slash - Fire Blast - Solar Beam - Dragon Pulse Mothra (Volcarona) (F) @ Life Orb Ability: Flame Body EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest Nature - Fiery Dance - Giga Drain - Quiver Dance - Hidden Power [ice] Rexy (Arcanine) (M) @ Choice Scarf Ability: Flash Fire EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Extreme Speed - Close Combat - Wild Charge - Flare Blitz Urmel (Camerupt) (F) @ Passho Berry Ability: Solid Rock EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Earth Power - Lava Plume - Stone Edge - Flash Cannon Treads: Sashed Dragon Dancers, amplyfied by the ability Moxxie. Azumarril with sap sipper, Aqua Jet. probably some more, that I am not too well aware of, because of my inexperience. Well, I'd really like to hear, what you think and how you would improve this Team. I still don't know how serious I want to get into competitive play, but I had fun so far. Also, like I said, this is my first competitive Team, so please go easy on my noobish ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomahawk Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Where did you get volcorona? Because the only way i know to get it is through the mystery egg which has a 1/18 chance in success. A viable substitute would be a typhlosion which you can get at SPOILER : 7th Street. For typhlosion maybe... - Eruption- Extrasensory- Earthquake- Fire Blast You are obviously going to teach some of them solar beam as soon as it becomes available right? Edited September 25, 2015 by NinjaGod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drymus Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Pretty sure this is a competitive monotype team, not a monotype run. Looks awesome to me, but I'm also a noob, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Considering you're using stuff that aren't available in Reborn in-game yet, I'll assume this is for all-in competitive purposes. That said, I have a lot to ramble about here, but my apologies if you find it a bit inappropriate. Frankly speaking, this team is...quite undesirable. While I'm unsure as to the limitations of what specific Fire Pokemon such as Talonflame are banned in Monotypes sometimes, you're still missing out on quite the number of important Pokemon that you shouldn't neglect on a Fire run, and opt for inferior options. While it's nice of you to be wary of keeping hazards away from the field while having hazards of your own, Torkoal is highly outclassed by two Pokemon that can do the respective roles; Heatran, which provides nifty resistances, and, albeit a debatable case, Moltres, which despite having an x4 weakness to Stealth Rock, has much better stats to work with, reliable recovery, and good Speed and offensive presence, as well as an extra immunity to Ground, in which most, if not all, Fire type teams appreciate. Even Infernape can function as a potent hazard lead, but you'd appreciate it's offensive capability more than its utility. I'll get to the specifics of this below. Moltres can remove entry hazards via Defog and Roost off stray damage, although you'd want to avoid the opponent setting up SR altogether, which is manageable apart from leads such as Custap Berry Skarmory/Forretress, should you lack the aid of Taunt. This can be put on Heatran, that can Taunt all common SR tanks that are slower than it even without significant investment in Speed, while it can also set up Stealth Rock itself. Defensively orientated spreads are desirable, for both, although offensive sets are viable for the two as well. Ironic as this may sound, if you're still pressed for a physical wall Fire type, you get two options in bulky Mega Charizard X and Defensive Arcanine, that have good bulk, the latter having Intimidate, as well as reliable recovery and Will-O-Wisp. Although they won't hit as hard as you want them to be with the given spreads, their attack stat allows little to compromise for physical damage output. One of the important things you're missing out on is Rotom-H. I'd go as far as to call it a staple on any serious mono-Fire, given it provides both a Ground immunity and a way to deal with Water types courtesy of Electric STAB. Even better, it can grab momentum with Volt Switch since Fire-type teams tend to be really hyper offensive and can't take hits all the time, but instead rely on sheer offensive pressure. Coming to more important offensive Fire types, let's get back to Infernape. Infernape's Fire/Fighting typing is really important in dealing with Rock-monos as well as other disadvantageous resists; most importantly, it helps to deal with mono-Ground teams where Excadrill can go on a rampage, and priority Mach Punch means Excadrill can't sweep so long as the monkey's around. Infernape's offensive typing and utility also helps in defeating most common Stealth Rock leads, and can also buy momentum in U-Turn. Using Ninetales along with Mega Charizard Y for consistent sun sustenance is actually more redundant that you'd think, meaning Ninetales may potentially be dead weight most of the time bar heavy weather wars, particularly against teams that have Tyranitar, that can easily strip apart both your Sun users. That said, while sun is a great thing for mono-Fire teams, it doesn't have to be there all the time, if at all. Ditch one or the other, depending on the team you wish to make; if you're lacking a physical attacker, Darmanitan and Emboar, preferably Choice Scarfed ones, as well as Entei, make for good options. Alternatively, you can keep Ninetales and get a Mega Charizard X, running a bulky or pure offensive set. I'm not sure if it's banned, but it's not included in the banlist. Edited September 25, 2015 by YagamiNoir4896 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassius Tain Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Soooo, Thanks for the answers. First: Yes, this is a competitive monotype, as it has a few things in it that are not currently available in Reborn. Where did you get volcorona? Because the only way i know to get it is through the mystery egg which has a 1/18 chance in success. A viable substitute would be a typhlosion which you can get at *spoilers* For typhlosion maybe... - Eruption- Extrasensory- Earthquake- Fire Blast You are obviously going to teach some of them solar beam as soon as it becomes available right? Yes, indeed, I did not get a Volcarone from the egg, but instead was blessed with a Drilbur which gave me the much needed advantage over Corey. And also yes, I do have a Typlosion which I run on my Reborn mono fire team as a Fast Special sweeper. I don't have the TM for Earthquacke, which I either missed or did not have the chance to get yet (I am currently residing at Agate Circus) Considering you're using stuff that aren't available in Reborn in-game yet, I'll assume this is for all-in competitive purposes. That said, I have a lot to ramble about here, but my apologies if you find it a bit inappropriate. Frankly speaking, this team is...quite undesirable. While I'm unsure as to the limitations of what specific Fire Pokemon such as Talonflame are banned in Monotypes sometimes, you're still missing out on quite the number of important Pokemon that you shouldn't neglect on a Fire run, and opt for inferior options. While it's nice of you to be wary of keeping hazards away from the field while having hazards of your own, Torkoal is highly outclassed by two Pokemon that can do the respective roles; Heatran, which provides nifty resistances, and, albeit a debatable case, Moltres, which despite having an x4 weakness to Stealth Rock, has much better stats to work with, reliable recovery, and good Speed and offensive presence, as well as an extra immunity to Ground, in which most, if not all, Fire type teams appreciate. Even Infernape can function as a potent hazard lead, but you'd appreciate it's offensive capability more than its utility. I'll get to the specifics of this below. Moltres can remove entry hazards via Defog and Roost off stray damage, although you'd want to avoid the opponent setting up SR altogether, which is manageable apart from leads such as Custap Berry Skarmory/Forretress, should you lack the aid of Taunt. This can be put on Heatran, that can Taunt all common SR tanks that are slower than it even without significant investment in Speed, while it can also set up Stealth Rock itself. Defensively orientated spreads are desirable, for both, although offensive sets are viable for the two as well. Ironic as this may sound, if you're still pressed for a physical wall Fire type, you get two options in bulky Mega Charizard X and Defensive Arcanine, that have good bulk, the latter having Intimidate, as well as reliable recovery and Will-O-Wisp. Although they won't hit as hard as you want them to be with the given spreads, their attack stat allows little to compromise for physical damage output. One of the important things you're missing out on is Rotom-H. I'd go as far as to call it a staple on any serious mono-Fire, given it provides both a Ground immunity and a way to deal with Water types courtesy of Electric STAB. Even better, it can grab momentum with Volt Switch since Fire-type teams tend to be really hyper offensive and can't take hits all the time, but instead rely on sheer offensive pressure. Coming to more important offensive Fire types, let's get back to Infernape. Infernape's Fire/Fighting typing is really important in dealing with Rock-monos as well as other disadvantageous resists; most importantly, it helps to deal with mono-Ground teams where Excadrill can go on a rampage, and priority Mach Punch means Excadrill can't sweep so long as the monkey's around. Infernape's offensive typing and utility also helps in defeating most common Stealth Rock leads, and can also buy momentum in U-Turn. Using Ninetales along with Mega Charizard Y for consistent sun sustenance is actually more redundant that you'd think, meaning Ninetales may potentially be dead weight most of the time bar heavy weather wars, particularly against teams that have Tyranitar, that can easily strip apart both your Sun users. That said, while sun is a great thing for mono-Fire teams, it doesn't have to be there all the time, if at all. Ditch one or the other, depending on the team you wish to make; if you're lacking a physical attacker, Darmanitan and Emboar, preferably Choice Scarfed ones, as well as Entei, make for good options. Alternatively, you can keep Ninetales and get a Mega Charizard X, running a bulky or pure offensive set. I'm not sure if it's banned, but it's not included in the banlist. Ooooookay... First, I don't find it offensive in any way. keep it going, as this might be a big help, even if it hurts to let some of my favourite mons go I'll read this again a few times and decide try some of these out in a secondary team, to see how it rolls. However I do know of Heatran and that it outclasses Torkoal in any aspect, BUT I actively decided against Legendaries, as I just don't like the whole concept of them (sounds stupid, but I can't help thinking of an overconfident 9 year old when I see legendaries in competitive battle) I'll try to overcome it, if I feel the necessity. I am not that sure about the sun, because it is mostly there not because of the 50% boost (Most opponents get OHKOed by a super effective move of any of the mons), but because of the Solar beam. At the moment I am thinking to switch back to Infernape as my scarfed revenge killer/physical sweeper. I just overlooked the Mach Punch when I first set up a build. Fake out and scarf are not really good friends. as a matter of fact I will look into Rotom-H, another mon that just slipped over my head probably because of my long absense of the Pokemon world. Same goes for Darmanitan. I did decide aggainst Emboar, as I remember it to be prettty slow from my current reborn playthrough, albeit his Reckless ability paired with the huge pool of recoil moves make it to be a force to be reconed with. Soo, lastly, I'd like to ask, if you may like to post some sample builds. I am mainly interested in the builds for Darmanitan, Rotom-H and Infernape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Goodbye, post #300. A mono-Fire team shouldn't be excessively reliant on Solarbeam, especially when you're only letting two or three Pokemon use it. It's more of a liability in some cases, especially against Pokemon such as Drizzle Politoed, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon. Predicting Solarbeam on their switch utterly spells death for your sun setter, so HP Grass, or in Ninetales' case Energy Ball, is more consistent and reliable. As for the three Pokemon you mentioned, all are viable Choice users, but I'd recommend against a Choice Scarf Infernape and opt for either Choice Band or Life Orb, since while there are no full counters to as to what the monkey can do, mono-Fire teams generally appreciate as much damage output from it as possible. That said, a physically offensive set, particularly CB, can work with a set like this: Infernape @ Choice Band/Life Orb Jolly Nature 252 Attack/4 Def/252 Speed Iron Fist Flare Blitz Close Combat U-Turn/Thunder Punch Mach Punch I'll let the set speak for itself. As for the other two, the set you want to run is largely dependent on fixed team composition; both are preferably Choice Scarfed, but can also run Choice Specs/Band. Rotom-H can also run a more defensively-orientated set. I'll give you all the options, but considering you have sun, I'll only give Scarf Darmanitan. Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf Jolly Nature 252 Attack/4 Def/252 Speed (make sure the HP is even to reduce SR damage) Sheer Force Flare Blitz U-Turn Rock Slide Superpower Rotom-H @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf Timid Nature 252 Special Attack/4 Def/252 Speed (again odd HP) Levitate Overheat Volt Switch Trick Hidden Power Ice/Grass/Will-O-Wisp OR Rotom-H @ Leftovers or Assault Vest (the former is better though) Timid/Bold Nature 248 HP/8 Special Attack/252 Speed with Timid or 248 HP/252 Def/8 Speed with Bold Levitate Overheat Volt Switch If Lefties: Will-O-Wisp/Thunder Wave Pain Split/Rest If AV: Hidden Power Ice/Hidden Power Grass Thunderbolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronoise Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I just want to contest something that's been mentioned, that Torkoal is outclassed by Moltres/Tran in mono fire While it's true that in general play, Torkoal has absolutely no niche in OU, mono fire is a whole different story. Torkoal is fire's best answer to SR, defog Moltres/Char just can't come in as freely as Torkoal can to remove rocks. You end up with a team that gets controlled by SR, which is something you desperately want to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassius Tain Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 Goodbye, post #300. A mono-Fire team shouldn't be excessively reliant on Solarbeam, especially when you're only letting two or three Pokemon use it. It's more of a liability in some cases, especially against Pokemon such as Drizzle Politoed, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon. Predicting Solarbeam on their switch utterly spells death for your sun setter, so HP Grass, or in Ninetales' case Energy Ball, is more consistent and reliable. As for the three Pokemon you mentioned, all are viable Choice users, but I'd recommend against a Choice Scarf Infernape and opt for either Choice Band or Life Orb, since while there are no full counters to as to what the monkey can do, mono-Fire teams generally appreciate as much damage output from it as possible. That said, a physically offensive set, particularly CB, can work with a set like this: Infernape @ Choice Band/Life Orb Jolly Nature 252 Attack/4 Def/252 Speed Iron Fist Flare Blitz Close Combat U-Turn/Thunder Punch Mach Punch I'll let the set speak for itself. As for the other two, the set you want to run is largely dependent on fixed team composition; both are preferably Choice Scarfed, but can also run Choice Specs/Band. Rotom-H can also run a more defensively-orientated set. I'll give you all the options, but considering you have sun, I'll only give Scarf Darmanitan. Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf Jolly Nature 252 Attack/4 Def/252 Speed (make sure the HP is even to reduce SR damage) Sheer Force Flare Blitz U-Turn Rock Slide Superpower Rotom-H @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf Timid Nature 252 Special Attack/4 Def/252 Speed (again odd HP) Levitate Overheat Volt Switch Trick Hidden Power Ice/Grass/Will-O-Wisp OR Rotom-H @ Leftovers or Assault Vest (the former is better though) Timid/Bold Nature 248 HP/8 Special Attack/252 Speed with Timid or 248 HP/252 Def/8 Speed with Bold Levitate Overheat Volt Switch If Lefties: Will-O-Wisp/Thunder Wave Pain Split/Rest If AV: Hidden Power Ice/Hidden Power Grass Thunderbolt Thanks again. I know about Hippodown, Politoed and Tyranitar and the danger they pose against my team. I'll try to switch Ninetails for Rotom-H and Camerupt for Life orb Infernape. however the minimal speed stats on Torkoal and Camerupt where pretty nice against a Trick room strategx one oponent tried to use. I just want to contest something that's been mentioned, that Torkoal is outclassed by Moltres/Tran in mono fire While it's true that in general play, Torkoal has absolutely no niche in OU, mono fire is a whole different story. Torkoal is fire's best answer to SR, defog Moltres/Char just can't come in as freely as Torkoal can to remove rocks. You end up with a team that gets controlled by SR, which is something you desperately want to avoid. YES! YES! YES! Groundwork for an argumentation. I have not seen anything 2HKO Torkoal, that wasn't boosted in any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neosong Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Nidoking kinda destroys the team so you'd better get a dedicated counter to it , replacing camerupt for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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