Heartless Souls: An Experiment in the Darker Side of Fantasy [Interest Check/Discussion/WIP]

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Forward:

Heyo everybody Hukuna Sensei here. Probably asking yourselves... "The heck does this weirdo have for us now?" at this very moment. However... I have a feeling if you read the title of this little excursion you might have an inkling. Well, I'd like to get this show on the road and if you've been reading this far I hope you'll listen to my incessant ramblings and generally put up with my annoyingness while I explain this here idea.~

Introduction:

Personally... I've always be a big fan of the darker things in fantasy, but not just that... the creatures and monsters that go bump in the night. The Undead, Werewolves, Lizardmen, Goblins, Orcs, and their ilk. They were always more fascinating to me then the Elves and the humans and the puny gnomes and Halflings ((or Hobbits considering on your taste, and disregard for copyright~ lol. Also Dwarves are awesome period. They are better than all those guys.)) They were always just boring compared to creatures. While Elves and what not had special powers were humans did not they still felt to safe and not different enough from humans themselves. Elves were just hippes running around in the woods hugging trees and being super androgynous and stuff. Gnomes were just Mad scientists that got their legs hacked off at the knees and had their foot stitched to the end. ((and also usually embodied everything annoying in humanity... for whatever reason they always got that unfortunate development.)) Hobbits just lazy layabouts that did nothing all day... also just known as me ((Ooooooh self-burn... might need a burn heal for that if I didn't knwo it was coming~)). And well... Humans are humans 'nuff said.

However, I've always wondered to myself... What are the monsters like? What do they do when not just waiting to kill some stupid adventurer that happened to wander by? Do they have feelings, or something that resembles feelings? Are they all evil? Should they always be just nameless entities that are used for players to slaughter endlessly? Do Monsters have families like we do? Do they have friends like we do?

And thus... this idea was sorta born. It was born out of these questions that I had and some of the media I've consumed that delves into this things. Like my current avvie Sir Daniel Fortesque in a game from my childhood. A game called Medievil... perhaps the thing that spurred my interest in these things in fantasy. A Knight given a second chance to be a true hero because the one he fought in his life accidently happened to resurrect the graveyard((you know... like Evil Sorcerers are want to do when they want to quickly get a sweeeeeet army of the dead.)) in which his body was held. I've also started watching and reading Overlord recently, a Light Novel ((with a pretty good anime adaptation.)) about a man who gets sucked into an DMMORPG ((they explain that if you read/Watch.... it's in all in tense and purpose an MMORPG though like you know.)), where he becomes the Ruler of his old Guild's base, the Tomb of Nazarick. All the characters are inhuman and really play with that idea of what non-human races would be like in a fantasy world... for me that's endlessly interesting.

This, is why I'm writing this... and what I want a few opinions on lol. I'm trying to make this the greatest thing I can and really really would love to explore these ideas with the lot of you guys. I'll be honest... if this does get made.... this probably won't be an easy RP for new folks to get into but I will definitely try and help any who do want to participate to do so.

Anyway, without further ado, the things I have need to ask. I please ask you throughly read these before commenting below with an answer, and please have a robust answer if you can. I really want opinions etc and reasonings behind these opinions. It's nice to hear the opinions, but they are sorta not very useful if I don't know why you think a certain way. Anyway, now actually without further ado... let's get this show on the road~

The RP, the Idea, and what things should I do?:

This RP intends to explore the other side of Fantasy, the Dark Creatures the ones we as players of games, RPs and consumers of any media with a fantasy theme usually watch get ruthlessly slaughtered by the so-called "Heros" of the works. However, I want to explore what it's like to be on that other side of the wall, those that are Creatures... what are Monster "cities" like? etc etc... many other numerous questions.

However I'm not sure how to best introduce this concept to players and definitely would like opinions. Some Ideas.

Have the players be a part of a unit of fighting creatures, sorta like an adventuring party, just with... stuff like Undead, Werepeople, Dopplegangers, etc... instead of typical Fantasy filler races. I'm not sure what I should attach them too though... should it be a town of monsters? A kingdom of them? Or would something like the arrangements in Overlord be a good idea? ((a single Fortress with a well structured chain of command. Players would probably be near the bottom at first.

Would it be good for the world around the Player's Characters to be totally unknown? This would cause a reason for them to be forced from the place they reside and explore the world. Or should it be known? Personally I'd like it to be an unknown probably finding someway to explain how the place they are located randomly ended up in a place they didn't find to be their normal surroundings. This gives a very express reason for exploration and going out of their way to possible gather information ((and make creatures with human appearances and the ability to take them have a very valuable reason for it. They could enter cities. How would I represent this though? Should it have a value that's kept track of or just common sense things?))

Would a more Player driven experience be better? With players allowed to be able to make some NPCs and encounters? Or would a linear approach be better?

I intend to use parts of the Signature Ability system from Clash of Fates for this, but... would Classes being more abstract be an idea people would like? After all... Monstrous races would probably develop very different classes from typical fantasy races. Maybe use modified version of the archetypes in Clash's system but make them tags that can be applied. Each denotes base abilities that the character would know. ((Warriors would know how to fight...Mages would know basic magic... you get the idea.)) with players being able to apply those. The more applied the more spread out the abilities and less time focused on each. ((if one was both a Warrior and a Mage, a normal warrior would be better at being a warrior than he.)) However, I want to create a Lesser Ability System as well. These would be Spells and Martial Arts ((A Warrior spells basically.)) that could be used by any player after their creation because they can be learned by anyone powerful enough. They would be lesser things used rather than the Signature abilities that are akin to a players trump card abilities, the strongest they have. They would discover and come up with these as play continued and probably be limited to a certain number so that they couldn't have an ability to counter literally everything ((other than SIgnatures... Signatures ALWAYS trump Lesser no matter what. Their power level difference is that great.)) DOes this sound like a good idea?

Characters would probably be considered OP in a normal situation, however this is not a normal situation, would people be okay with that?

What Races should be available? I know Undead ((in most forms imaginable, other than non-corporeal ones since they'd be way too OP.)) will be available, probably things like Lizardmen, Demons, and other more humanoid creatures. ((or at least ones that have a humanoid form at the least.)) But... would less human things be a good idea? Clearly nothing like a dragon would be permitted ((Half Dragon with a mostly human form maybe but not a full one.)), but what should the limit be? Should it be what I have it as now... things that have a humanoid form in some capacity only?

I would like to keep a lot of Graterras's under the hood things in this RP. Like how Magic works etc... Is this a good idea? Or Do you guys think I should make a fresh and new system for this world? ((My idea is that this would be in a separate plane of existence in Graterras's Universe. It would play by the same rules but not be that place.))

What do you think the name of the project should be? Heartless Souls is just my kinda working title, taken from the idea that people perceive monsters to probably not have souls... and if they do that they'd have no "heart" as people are fond of saying. It's idea is to invoke the fact that one is indeed playing a monster and the world at large... sees you that way. Will they give in and become that Monster they are seen as? Or... will they defy it? The question still stands though? is this a good name or would something else be more suffice?

((if people would like a Poll I'll add it then for now I'll just live it as is.))

Conclusion:

I know there's not a lot of info on plot etc... and things of that nature, but that is because I don't want to put in that work if there's no interest at all. There's a lot of questions that need answers right now as I'd like to see what people think or expect from a thing like this. ((other than Characters being very powerful compared to a normal RP.)) This is why I'm asking these things and really looking for some good quality answers. I'd like to know what you folks think in this matter and get honest opinions lol. This RP is still a very raw image in my mind and I want some hands to help me sculpt this masterpiece. After all, you guys will be the ones playing it if I make it... so I'd love your thoughts, your opinions on what I'm doing here and what I need answered.

Thank you for reading, if you have any specific questions please do not hesitate to PM me about them. Otherwise do comment below. Thank you for reading this far, it humbles me that people would read through some silly rant and hail of questions I write like this lol. Anyway, without further ado... Hukuna Sensei out~. Until next time... *points at the camera* PLAY MORE ROLES!!!

[Flux]

I'll try to write you up a decent response when I have more time, but for now I'll just say that I like the idea. One of the most interesting things for me in the two episodes of Overlord I've seen so far was the fact that you could play as a slime. (Yes, playing as a slime appeals to me for whatever reason. I don't know why either.) So I suppose my first question is, "Will slimes be playable? Jk, that's not that important.

Anyway, I could see this taking a few different routes. I think it might be interesting if players eventually encountered heroes at some point, so we get that kind of "reversed roles" dynamic. I could also see the RP avoiding this entirely, so it's definitely got a good number of paths open to it. Like I said, I'll try to write something more detailed later, but for now I'll leave this and my excitement at the idea!

[rustytengo]

you know Hukuna i have seen a book like this but i can't remember what it was called. it was about a group of monsters adventuring or something after the Heroes killed the big bad whose army they where part of. If i remember the cover there was an orc, gnoll, goblin and kobold who where part of it(i will go look for this books name). Also look up the web comic Goblins its sort of like this but a comedy.

this sounds interesting also i now need to watch that anime.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Keep in mind... I would like people to answer those questions in the middle section XD. It's really important since I want to know what people think etc... and what ideas they think are good and which they think are poor etc... yadda yadda reasons why would be helpful too etc...

Though I appreciate the things to look up there Rusty... they are a bit off topic and not helpful to the discussion at hand lol. I'd ask people to stay on track for this lol. ((I will give that a pass over though, sounds interesting.))

[rustytengo]

sorry sorry i will actually answer that when its not in the middle of the night for me. i just mentioned those to help with thinkning on your part.

well for the first part a lot of it depends if you want the players to he heroic or not, if not then have them be part of an army of some sort if you want them to be heroic then the town would be better for that.

i will get more answered as sometime later.

[Yours Truly]

well this seem's like a very interesting project and here are the things I thought of:

First of all I don't really know what Graterras is other than as a Fantasy RP that is mentioned in this topic a lot.

About the class thing I think you should just stick to standard "archetypes" but allow people to mix and match them somewhat (and possibly make up their own names).

The "Signature Abilities" thing seem's sort of reminiscent of "Limit Breakers" in the sense that they're "trump cards" that you can only get a limited amount of, but I do agree that a player should only get a limited amounts (like around 2-3?) and maybe you could give them to enemy "Boss" characters.

About the whole "Unknown Environment" thing make's some sense like maybe your Evil Overlord/Higher ranking demon/Necromancer needs a group of minions to explore the surrounding area and that can be the reason why your character is made to leave their "Home base", maybe include some minor PvP in the sense that your respective bosses want to claim a certain piece of land or magical maggufin maybe?

Well maybe you should give the PC's some freedom as to Npc's and item's but not so much that It just become's a Deus ex machina.

well lesser demon's ( vaguely humanoid one's and imps might fit) Lizardmen and Undead are pretty much a staple of any fantasy setting

Goblins too and Half dragon's seem like a good idea as long as they have something to nerf them somewhat. simply put i think pretty much anything goes as long as it has a weakness that balances them like Vampires not being able to go out in the sunlight without spells that can be dispelled or demons being weak to silver or "holy" objects.

Maybe make the "Heroes" a constant thorn in your side?

and maybe make the "Heartless Monsters" less obviously evil and more like creatures that do the "evil" things they do as a means of survival since they don't know any other way too live since the more "Heroic Races" are more powerful and they constantly try to hunt down the "Evil Races"?

( Like A vampire having to drink blood).

So in short I have given you another set of questions, YAAY?

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

So in short I have given you another set of questions, YAAY?

It's a discussion after all lol. I expected this to be a thing. One cannot expect collaboration without such XD.

well this seem's like a very interesting project and here are the things I thought of:

First of all I don't really know what Graterras is other than as a Fantasy RP that is mentioned in this topic a lot.

Graterras and Graterras: Clash of Fates are both RPs written by me that are on this forum. I might drop a ew links in the OP if not enough people know my works ((since it can be useful to inform... and I forget that people aren't as familiar with it here anymore as when it was still running. Clash of Fates is currently being run and it's where the Singature System came from... I'll come more to that in time.)) Either way, they are both Dark Fantasy/High Fantasy based RPs in the more traditional sense. It's a world I created from scratch and have been working on a very very long time. ((think my Westeros or my Middle Earth... it's a big world meant to house tales etc... much like many other fantasy series have. As such it's got it's own rules for magic and how the universe works etc...))

About the class thing I think you should just stick to standard "archetypes" but allow people to mix and match them somewhat (and possibly make up their own names).

The "Signature Abilities" thing seem's sort of reminiscent of "Limit Breakers" in the sense that they're "trump cards" that you can only get a limited amount of, but I do agree that a player should only get a limited amounts (like around 2-3?) and maybe you could give them to enemy "Boss" characters.

I tackle these at the same time since they bleed into each other a little. Clash of Fates has my current iteration of the system where normal combat stuff isn't covered but Signatures are. 4ish was the limit on Player Characters since they usually got a class one ((or two in some places.)) and 3 original ones that were unique to them. A Lesser System, or a Spell/Skill system fro things not of this level will solve the class based one and allow me to give a more mix and match approach to that for certain. Signatures are meant to be a characters unique abilities and one only the know. Perhaps with growth and the long term being something in this RP, players only starting with one or two would be good.

About the whole "Unknown Environment" thing make's some sense like maybe your Evil Overlord/Higher ranking demon/Necromancer needs a group of minions to explore the surrounding area and that can be the reason why your character is made to leave their "Home base", maybe include some minor PvP in the sense that your respective bosses want to claim a certain piece of land or magical maggufin maybe?

Yea, that's what I was thinking... not sure I'd want more than one faction though since that would drastically increase the number of players needed to make this run. Perhaps jsut a single group at the beginning... maybe flesh it out later.

Well maybe you should give the PC's some freedom as to Npc's and item's but not so much that It just become's a Deus ex machina.

Of course, no powerplaying would be allowed and things would always be required to be made in advance in regards to items or NPCs before a situation like that arises. No mid-battle creating of stuff that no one knows about~ ANd no random Knights saving you at the last minute deflecting a sword blow. ((unless it's me the host... I'm totes allowed to do that~))

well lesser demon's ( vaguely humanoid one's and imps might fit) Lizardmen and Undead are pretty much a staple of any fantasy setting. Goblins too and Half dragon's seem like a good idea as long as they have something to nerf them somewhat. simply put i think pretty much anything goes as long as it has a weakness that balances them like Vampires not being able to go out in the sunlight without spells that can be dispelled or demons being weak to silver or "holy" objects.

Definitely would be the case yes. Monsters have latent strengths like Undead being very resistant to certain types of weapons ((like Skeletons not being overly harmed by swords or piercing type weapons, but being defeated handily by blunt objects. Elementally Undead would be very weak to "holy"/light elements and Fire, while being generally resistant to Cold and probably being healed by "Unholy" elements.)). With a resistance or immunity comes an equal move in weakness towards that elements opposite. ((not to mention things will probably exist that can break those or do something to negate etc...))

Maybe make the "Heroes" a constant thorn in your side?

and maybe make the "Heartless Monsters" less obviously evil and more like creatures that do the "evil" things they do as a means of survival since they don't know any other way too live since the more "Heroic Races" are more powerful and they constantly try to hunt down the "Evil Races"?

( Like A vampire having to drink blood).

I kinda want to force these situations a lot, and further... ones where the players might have to trust or even get along with people. This would be super hard for players whose characters despise humans and even harder still for those with monstrous appearances. I really want to play with coexistence being possible, or the Monsters having to cooperate with the more normal race at times. Monster tend to be more innately powerful then these races, so... I think it be interesting if they were sometimes forced to help them or get information from them without killing them. It also gives things with very human appearances more value in some situations. ((like a Doppleganger could be used to infiltrate human society for a time and learn of the world around them from these humans.)) Just a thought XD.

[Chevaleresse]

What if you had a system kind of like Kurotsune's for race? Say, you don't lay out this list of lizardman, gnoll, skeleton, etc, but you let players more or less come up with their own?

I also think it'd be interesting to have completely non-humanoid races (yet still sentient for obvious reasons) playable.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Hmm,m this is a point to consider... however I want to be very damn certain of what each is capable of. I'd rather Players not just create them on a whim. It's important to know their weaknesses resistances, and Immunites, any special Race abilities, etc etc... I think have a list of things makes that better since I won't have any situation where I have to look directly at some one's app for confirmation and rather have it all known beforehand. Personally... that's why I'd rather not do it that way since it adds a lot more elements of me having to memorize specific cases of things for exact characters rather than preset stuff I already know for certain. Might be a tad selfish of me, but I'd rather do it that way then have to worry about the creations of a bunch of different players and need to memorize them on top of the other stuff that's very open for players to interpret. ((Lesser Spells and Martial Arts being an example, as well as stuff like items etc that I'm going to let a bit more open for players to create stuff with.)) I personally not add races to that because there's already a lot they will get to make.

It's a dilemma though... since i don't know how far I wish to push the limits in regard to that. I'm definitely thinking on it though and think it's going to be one of the last questions I end up answering.

[Pyon Pyon Kyuu!~]

Well, here is the important thing: alignment. I don't know if you play DND or not and if you are familiar with Lawful, Chaotic, Good, Evil. Are the players Evil, or does the world think they are evil because their races usually are? Are they serving an Evil master and are they neutral/good themselves? Are they just Chaotic disorganized monsters doing what they want, or are they Lawful orderly to wreck havoc in the world. My suggestion is evil. I love evil.

I also suggest going with the "Tomb of Nazarick" idea. The mage tower of a great Lich, the mansion of a long living vampire, the demiplane of a great evil deity of war, the circle in hell of an Archdevil.

I also suggest the following: instead of creating each individual race and take away player freedom, create templates. Again, in DND, templates decide what's common between races. Every monster with the giant template is at least "Large" sized and is weak to "Giant killer" weapons. All undead are immune to critical hits, and are normally vulnerable to radiant damage. Beasts normally have very low Int, etc. To make this fun make sure not to limit what people can play in term of races. To me, the fluff matters a lot more than the mechanics. I don't give a shit about what abilities my character gets, just let me play a slime girl.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Well, here is the important thing: alignment. I don't know if you play DND or not and if you are familiar with Lawful, Chaotic, Good, Evil. Are the players Evil, or does the world think they are evil because their races usually are? Are they serving an Evil master and are they neutral/good themselves? Are they just Chaotic disorganized monsters doing what they want, or are they Lawful orderly to wreck havoc in the world. My suggestion is evil. I love evil.

Uh... personally I think Alignment is the stupidest fucking ((pardon my French here. I do thusly apologize.)). system ever created within DnD and I never use it ever... other than a vague guideline. People can't really be defined by Alignments and I do not believe characters adequately can either. We're more complex than that Imo and therefore I resent that the system exists... it's tantamount to nothing and it doesn't do anything. Using it is needless restrictive and feels super pointless and restricts players in a way tat make no logical sense. Therefore whatever ever I end up doing alignment doesn't matter because it's a dumb system that amounts to nothing. Whether or not the PLayer wants their character to be "good' or "evil" is up to them entirely. Sorry if I'm coming off harsh here that's not my intent... I just adamantly hate the alignment system from my years of playing DnD. It's one I cut out of every single campaign I've DM'ed and I'll keep it that way. It's a system that doesn't even really change the game if you don't acknowledge it at all, so I just don't personally.

EDIT: think of it this way. Who on Earth goes around thinking "I'm Lawful Good, I gotta do Lawful Good things!!!" The answer is nobody... hell... alignment is a concept invented for ease of speak really a key of summary, not one that's an actual characteristic of a person. Heck a perosn that was "evil" wouldn't think in their own mind they are "evil" most would think that which they do is normal or the right thing to do... they would think they are good even. They'd think that the right thing to do since from their perspective... that;s what good is. This is why I don't really care for the alignment system. It's made from a point of view that's biased. Therefore it's not useful imo. It's really a hindrance if used as anything other than a guideline.

I also suggest going with the "Tomb of Nazarick" idea. The mage tower of a great Lich, the mansion of a long living vampire, the demiplane of a great evil deity of war, the circle in hell of an Archdevil.

It's seems like the best course of action as it gives a particular goal in mind and a way for me as the host to directly manipulate the characters... ((maybe even make them do things they might not want to do etc to spark moral dilemmas. Does one listen to their lord and do something they don't morally agree with? Or do they take a stand despite who he is and the consequences for doing so?))

I also suggest the following: instead of creating each individual race and take away player freedom, create templates. Again, in DND, templates decide what's common between races. Every monster with the giant template is at least "Large" sized and is weak to "Giant killer" weapons. All undead are immune to critical hits, and are normally vulnerable to radiant damage. Beasts normally have very low Int, etc. To make this fun make sure not to limit what people can play in term of races. To me, the fluff matters a lot more than the mechanics. I don't give a shit about what abilities my character gets, just let me play a slime girl.

Hmm, sounds like a plan. It definitely gives me an idea of what their extras are without going into detail and allowing them to expand upon their particular character in their own way. It would take some very detailed descriptions, however the group I'm targeting this RP at can probably handle that with relative ease. I'll probably split Undead into two categories "Bone Fiends" or ones that have no flesh, and "Walking Corpses" or ones with flesh. AS an example anything without flesh would fit under Bone Fiend, so typical Skeletons of humanoids or those of more... monstrous origin. The latter would house everything from Revenant's to zombies. Certain ones could fit under both as well. ((Liches for example, though very old and powerful liches would mostly be under Bone Fiend probably lol.)) Just brainstorming here lol. But yea seems like a good plan to allow a lot of freedom and still have a way to mechanically round them up in a concise way.

[Pyon Pyon Kyuu!~]

Alignment

Well... See this is a huge discussion that we should probably take into pms if you care enough but I'm pro alignment. Mostly because I don't think it limits a character at all. It's a way to allow certain super natural abilities to exist and it gives a vague idea of your character's nature. If your character sticks out for themselves, they are neutral. If your character is selfless and cares more about others they are good. If your character is selfish and would throw others into the tracks to save itself, it is evil. Simple as that. The reason why real life humans are hard to define with the alignment system is because we are almost all neutral. All of us act differently depending on the situation, most of us aren't willing to sacrifice and most of us aren't willing to sacrifice others. But anywho, that's irrelevant. Let the player decide and no alignment system probably for the best!

Templates

Just make sure to make a shit ton of these! Maybe take the DND list? The 5e list is:

Abberation, Beast, Celestial, Construct, Dragon, Elemental, Fiend, Giant, Humanoid (with a sub template for goblonoids to include bugbears, goblins, hobgoblins etc), Monstrosities, Oozes, Plants and Undead!

Do indeed split them up. But make sure to make the powers not too specific. A vampire is different from a zombie but they would both be "flesh undead"

[Notus]

Mate, slimes are getting OP here XD.

Anyway, down to business. It looks like a very interesting project Huk, I watch Overlord too and that kind of plot does have a heavy appeal. The Tomb of Nazarick concept is what I find to be more suitable, but perhaps instead of making it randomly appear at an unfamiliar place, maybe we could flesh out reasons for it to end up there (maybe the group of monsters in question was defeated by "heroic" races somewhere and are fleeing from them, or they want to expand their domain, or something like that). I like the race system proposed by Pyon, after all monsters come in all shapes and sizes, and having relative freedom to create characters that reflect this would be great. Also, your class and skill system from Graterras is ready and tested, so I think it would be better to keep it. It would probably be best to make some research on types of monsters and think specifically about what kind of classes would be best for them.

[Felicity]

The RP, the Idea, and what things should I do?:

This RP intends to explore the other side of Fantasy, the Dark Creatures the ones we as players of games, RPs and consumers of any media with a fantasy theme usually watch get ruthlessly slaughtered by the so-called "Heros" of the works. However, I want to explore what it's like to be on that other side of the wall, those that are Creatures... what are Monster "cities" like? etc etc... many other numerous questions.

However I'm not sure how to best introduce this concept to players and definitely would like opinions. Some Ideas.

Have the players be a part of a unit of fighting creatures, sorta like an adventuring party, just with... stuff like Undead, Werepeople, Dopplegangers, etc... instead of typical Fantasy filler races. I'm not sure what I should attach them too though... should it be a town of monsters? A kingdom of them? Or would something like the arrangements in Overlord be a good idea? ((a single Fortress with a well structured chain of command. Players would probably be near the bottom at first.

Perhaps joining a dungeon is akin to taking a job? You enter the service of a dungeon master and have various duties delegated to you. Be it to scour the Dragon lair of mouldy scales and poop, or to scout ahead to know when adventurers are approaching etc. The PCs can be new recruits, working for X reason.

Would it be good for the world around the Player's Characters to be totally unknown? This would cause a reason for them to be forced from the place they reside and explore the world. Or should it be known? Personally I'd like it to be an unknown probably finding someway to explain how the place they are located randomly ended up in a place they didn't find to be their normal surroundings. This gives a very express reason for exploration and going out of their way to possible gather information ((and make creatures with human appearances and the ability to take them have a very valuable reason for it. They could enter cities. How would I represent this though? Should it have a value that's kept track of or just common sense things?))

I prefer the idea of there being a mirror society for the monsters that every monster is somewhat aware of. sure, some species are more secluded than others but there still a sense of, uh, almost national camaraderie. Whenever a species meets another monster, there'd be like an unwritten code of conduct, you know? Plus, having a known world helps us to develop more of a motive to get into the word on the whole.

Would a more Player driven experience be better? With players allowed to be able to make some NPCs and encounters? Or would a linear approach be better?

Something I've noticed in these forums, it's rare that independent action is a strong suit of people in this forum. I'd advise against it to avoid the chance of any hiccups really and throw us into a more linear approach.

I intend to use parts of the Signature Ability system from Clash of Fates for this, but... would Classes being more abstract be an idea people would like? After all... Monstrous races would probably develop very different classes from typical fantasy races. Maybe use modified version of the archetypes in Clash's system but make them tags that can be applied. Each denotes base abilities that the character would know. ((Warriors would know how to fight...Mages would know basic magic... you get the idea.)) with players being able to apply those. The more applied the more spread out the abilities and less time focused on each. ((if one was both a Warrior and a Mage, a normal warrior would be better at being a warrior than he.)) However, I want to create a Lesser Ability System as well. These would be Spells and Martial Arts ((A Warrior spells basically.)) that could be used by any player after their creation because they can be learned by anyone powerful enough. They would be lesser things used rather than the Signature abilities that are akin to a players trump card abilities, the strongest they have. They would discover and come up with these as play continued and probably be limited to a certain number so that they couldn't have an ability to counter literally everything ((other than SIgnatures... Signatures ALWAYS trump Lesser no matter what. Their power level difference is that great.)) DOes this sound like a good idea?

More people are familiar with this system and you've already shown the capability to make it once. Doing it again with this system would help quantify battles more, give us a better understanding of our limits without restricting us so much, you know?

Characters would probably be considered OP in a normal situation, however this is not a normal situation, would people be okay with that?

Mst people in this forum are knowledgeable enough not to rock the boat. I see no issue with OPness, especially when I feel like you'll throw a roadblock in front of us that shows us how not OP we really are in the grand scheme of things.

What Races should be available? I know Undead ((in most forms imaginable, other than non-corporeal ones since they'd be way too OP.)) will be available, probably things like Lizardmen, Demons, and other more humanoid creatures. ((or at least ones that have a humanoid form at the least.)) But... would less human things be a good idea? Clearly nothing like a dragon would be permitted ((Half Dragon with a mostly human form maybe but not a full one.)), but what should the limit be? Should it be what I have it as now... things that have a humanoid form in some capacity only?

Depends on the effect of Races on the signature ability thing. If you don't plan to have outlines for that, then let people submit things and judge them on a case by case basis. There's so many monsters out there, it'd be a real shame to limit the players to just the humanoids.

I would like to keep a lot of Graterras's under the hood things in this RP. Like how Magic works etc... Is this a good idea? Or Do you guys think I should make a fresh and new system for this world? ((My idea is that this would be in a separate plane of existence in Graterras's Universe. It would play by the same rules but not be that place.))

Keep the system. Why fuck around with something new that you know works? This RP already sounds experimental enough, no need to add more untested elements.

What do you think the name of the project should be? Heartless Souls is just my kinda working title, taken from the idea that people perceive monsters to probably not have souls... and if they do that they'd have no "heart" as people are fond of saying. It's idea is to invoke the fact that one is indeed playing a monster and the world at large... sees you that way. Will they give in and become that Monster they are seen as? Or... will they defy it? The question still stands though? is this a good name or would something else be more suffice?

Perspective

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Well... See this is a huge discussion that we should probably take into pms if you care enough but I'm pro alignment. Mostly because I don't think it limits a character at all. It's a way to allow certain super natural abilities to exist and it gives a vague idea of your character's nature. If your character sticks out for themselves, they are neutral. If your character is selfless and cares more about others they are good. If your character is selfish and would throw others into the tracks to save itself, it is evil. Simple as that. The reason why real life humans are hard to define with the alignment system is because we are almost all neutral. All of us act differently depending on the situation, most of us aren't willing to sacrifice and most of us aren't willing to sacrifice others. But anywho, that's irrelevant. Let the player decide and no alignment system probably for the best!

It's personal taste really. I jsut really don't care for the system and don't think it's needs to be there... it asks one to be much to beholden to it... or at least every time I run a game people try to act that way and it effects their desicions... it's why I remove it because it pigeon-holes them... or they don't really use it anyway, so I personally don't care for it lol. I'm jsut not going to use it as anything other than a simple guideline ((such as... We know this guy is generally Good. Weeee! That's really the extent it will be. But it's not going to really be a stated characteristic.))

Just make sure to make a shit ton of these! Maybe take the DND list? The 5e list is:

Abberation, Beast, Celestial, Construct, Dragon, Elemental, Fiend, Giant, Humanoid (with a sub template for goblonoids to include bugbears, goblins, hobgoblins etc), Monstrosities, Oozes, Plants and Undead!

Do indeed split them up. But make sure to make the powers not too specific. A vampire is different from a zombie but they would both be "flesh undead"

Yea I wouldn't make them too specific, I think those certain characteristics of those undead would be more interesting if they were rolled in being signature abilities. They could be more powerful that way anyway ((you know stuff like Vampires having hypnotic eyes that do something magical etc...)) perhaps roll them into being specific Lesser Abilities for race. After all... players can make those... so having ones that are tailored to your race and available to it etc would be cool. ((I'd probably add a note for them then in the Masterlist since I will list all the created Lesser Skill in the OOC if I do end up making this that way there is an easy way to look them up.)) it also make it so some of that race can do something but others can't. I think that's interesting.

Mate, slimes are getting OP here XD.

Anyway, down to business. It looks like a very interesting project Huk, I watch Overlord too and that kind of plot does have a heavy appeal. The Tomb of Nazarick concept is what I find to be more suitable, but perhaps instead of making it randomly appear at an unfamiliar place, maybe we could flesh out reasons for it to end up there (maybe the group of monsters in question was defeated by "heroic" races somewhere and are fleeing from them, or they want to expand their domain, or something like that). I like the race system proposed by Pyon, after all monsters come in all shapes and sizes, and having relative freedom to create characters that reflect this would be great. Also, your class and skill system from Graterras is ready and tested, so I think it would be better to keep it. It would probably be best to make some research on types of monsters and think specifically about what kind of classes would be best for them.

I'd definitely have a reason plot-wise if I did that etc... I wouldn't just have it be entirely random. However it'd be super odd if they should reasonably know the area since they live there and yet you guys as players do not. SO I'd definitely think of something.

[K_H]

It seems quite interesting, you have me hooked.

Also, a quick suggestion: instead of Werewolves being the only Therianthropic race, make them a subgroup of the larger "Werebeast" race, so that Werecats and other human-animal morphing hybrids can be included. Vampires can also be included under this umbrella, if so desired, since there are several legends where a Vampire turns into a bat and back. This "Superspecies" would allow for people to make Were-creatures that are to their liking, rather than just being stuck with one race.

[EDIT]: Oops, didn't see the OP.

Edited October 3, 2015 by K_H

[Pyon Pyon Kyuu!~]

It seems quite interesting, you have me hooked.

Also, a quick suggestion: instead of Werewolves being the only Therianthropic race, make them a subgroup of the larger "Werebeast" race, so that Werecats and other human-animal morphing hybrids can be included. Vampires can also be included under this umbrella, if so desired, since there are several legends where a Vampire turns into a bat and back. This "Superspecies" would allow for people to make Were-creatures that are to their liking, rather than just being stuck with one race.

"Were" creatures are actually a huge beast family commonly found in DND games. However, Vampires are completely unrelated. Vampires are undead with a special strain of negative energy that gives them several different abilities. Were creatures comes from a disease.

[K_H]

It's a moot point, seeing as i realized that it was already covered in the OP.

[Yours Truly]

Well I think the race specific abilities thing could work, but I do hope that it's less bonus to certain actions, negative to certain actions and more like half dragons can breath fire, zombie's can inflict poison on enemies.

edit: although every single "race" should still I have weaknesses I just don't like the whole certain race's are naturally superior at certain classes thing in D&D.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Cronos5010

[WildChalice]

Seems like this is a mix of Overlord and Re:Monster. I like this idea a lot. Re:Monster Wiki link to MC "Rou"

I just woke up so my ability to think is kinda... slow? I'll answer some of the questions later on. Brain needs food!

Edited October 3, 2015 by WildChalice

[Gaunt]

Hey it's my firs time commenting in this part of the forum (all because of that beautiful title) now let's get to it. Dark Fantasy is good, Dark Fantasy playing as an "evil" creature is even better! I follow some comics/manga with a similar concept (most of them already mentioned here) so i'll probably enjoy this too. To answer your questions:

The "starting point": if you want the characters to interact more with "monsters" (with humans/elves being introduced mostly as enemies) then the "monster lair" setting is good but if you want them to interact (more or less peacefully) with humans&co then an "adventuring party" setting would be more "fitting" (and easier to pull off) imo.

World: it should be unknow to the players (except some areas near the "start") who didn't travel/explore (this can be one of the innate traits) the ones who did should know at least a little more (for example: an ancient Vampire/Lich would certainly know more than a goblin)

Approach to the game: i would much prefer a linear one as some players can ruin the game for everyone with their choises.

Classes: i know nothing about the Gaterras system but if it works why change it? Of course the names (and maybe some of the abilities) should be changed (to make them more "evil")

Strenght of the characters: OP protagonists/players become boring very fast in my experience (well written ones are an exception of course) so i think they should have some weaknesses that the "heroes" can exploit.

Races: you are going for a "monster game" so all the mosters capable of intelligent thought should be included i think and the ones that are not could still be included under special circumstances (like a blessing/curse from an evil God)

Magic: again i know nothing of that magic system but if it works in this "new" enviroment you should keep it (while changing some of the spell names of course) it would be easier to make/organize if you work with something familiar.

Project name: seeing as the current name is what brough me here it's probably ok to leave it as it is (well Dark Souls would be cooler but it's already taken), there is one consideration though, if you want your players to "be" evil the title is perfect but if it's about them "adapting" to the humans (or trying to survive in general) then something more "neutral" would be more appropriate...like idk "misfits" maybe?

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I think I'll go with the "Tomb of Nazarick" Idea. I like the idea of the intrigue and the expansion of the base. ((perhaps even pitting players against each other a bit to make be scary boss man happy and gain his favor etc as a sort of side objective lol.)) This way it forces the players not not just murder the more normal races since they might be more useful to them alive or as pawns. It also gives more humanoid looking monsters have an advantage for being used for stealth missions and covert operations right under the humans noses, while other creatures would be used for more specialized jobs. ((scouting, acquiring artifacts, eliminating forces in certain areas... you get the gist.)).

Of course I could have some control over plot stuff but Players would need to be able to hold onto some responsibility in the field. After all, I can't play everything and definitely not their characters and am not going to send an NPC with every single character. That would get insane lol. So they would definitely be a bit more player freedom in terms of plot etc as well. After all their actions will be pretty important and could effect relations. ((you show there is monsters in the area... the humans might catch wind and go looking. Perhaps they end up finding the "lair", if they get away then everybody in the area knows and they will mount a powerful force.... stuff like this etc...)). So, yea there's definitely going to be some player freedom and times they drive parts of the story ((I can take over NPCs if they wish so that they have somebody else controlling the created NPC, or another player could etc...)) I think a mixed narrative approach is best lol.

[Pyon Pyon Kyuu!~]

Never take anyone alive. Turn them into undead instead. More useful that way.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Yea until the village notices people are starting to go missing.... or they see one of them somewhere lol. Then People are going to start snoopin' about.

[K_H]

And if you do that, you'll give the participants a chance to see how their Characters react when the Middens hit the Windmill, which would be when the Humans come after them en masse with weapons!