Lack of player independance, and why this is a massive issue for the forum

[Bfroger6]

Even introverts can be thrown into comical character interactions

Being a loner is no excuse for not interacting with others, just be creative and be fun

*nods solemnly*

[Tomas Elliot]

JESUS CHRIST YOU GUYS.

Remember when this topic was about improving the roleplay section? Can we PLEASE go back to that for two seconds? I actually made a serious suggestion and, guess what, I would like to hear people's opinion on that, instead of watching Dobby and Alexus quarrel over unrelated stuff.

So, allow me to repeat:

There IS a lack of player independance in our roleplays. This has to do with 3 factors:

1) Personal issues (some people just aren't good at taking initiative)

2) Game-related issues (some people just aren't good roleplayers, I know one thing or two about that from my experience with the YGO roleplay)

3) Forum-related issues (the fact that each roleplay takes place in a single topic, which I expanded on in a previous post of mine)

We should try and find solutions for each of these points. Topics like this, possibly even a formal guide and a stricter set of rules, can help with oint 2. Point 1 cannot really be solved, and as far as point 3 goes... Again, that is pretty much a fatal flaw of roleplays held on forums whose main focus is not the roleplay itself. I don't really think Ame will be willing to branch the RP section into God knows how many sub-sections...

... Unless, you know, we play it cleverly. I mean, you know how each roleplay would need many sub.sections? I was thinking that ALL the roleplays would need more or less the same amount of sub-sections, and for more or less the same goals. We can even go as far as to narrow it down to 3 kinds of sub-sections: plot-advancing roleplays, personal interactions and combat. SO yeah, having such sub-sections for EACH roleplay is absolutely imposible, but what about having 3 sub-sections used by everyone? Like, we divide the roleplay section in 3 sub-sections: "plot-advancing", "personal interaction" and "combat". All roleplays that start the topics that are now known as "IC topics" post them in the "plot-advancing" sub-section. People willing to have separated roleplays for interaction and character development post them in the "personal interaction" sub-section, and everything related to combat (be it YGO duels, Pokemon battles or D&D-style combat) goes... You get the idea. With strict rules as to how each topic needs to have not only specific labels in the title, but also specific tags, we can make it work without it getting too chaotic IMO.

To clarify, here is a quick scheme of ho I envision the roleplay section

ROLEPLAY SECTION

All the topics we currently know as "OOC topics" would be posted here. For example, Ymora's OOC would be here.

Plot-advancing sub-section

All the topics currently known as "IC topics", i.e. the topics started by hosts, in which all roleplayers post in order to, you guessed it, advance the plot, are posted here. For example, the latest Ymora's IC topic would go here.

Personal interaction sub-section

Let's just say myself and Dobby want to get our characters in Ymora to know each other better. We start a topic in this section (CLEARLY LABELED in both its title and its tags to make it clear it is part of Ymora, we would need strict rules about this point) where it's just the two of us interacting, without having to cope with 15 more people doing their stuff at the same time. IMO this would encourage player independance more than anything else.

Combat sub-section

You know how posts dedicated to describe combat slow down a roleplay considerably, and generally feel out of place in the same topic in which other people are just having a random chat? Well, to remove this problem, anything combat-related would go into dedicated topics posted in thi sub-section. For example, if I were to have a Pokemon battle with Dobby as part of Ymora, we'd start a topic here (again, with specific labels to make it clear it belongs to Ymora).

But Tomas, wouldn't this overwork the hosts, by forcing them to go back and forth between many different sub-sections? Well, not necessarily: all it takes is a clever use of the tags. If all the topics related to a roleplay have the same exact tag(s), then all the host has to do is to use the "search by tag" function, and just like that, they'll see all the topics they need to see in just one page.

Without an excessive waste of resources, roleplays in this community can be greatly improved this way. Or at least, this is my opinion.

[Felicity]

@Tomas, you're blowing it out of proportion. We're still discussing reason as to why initiative in RPs is an issue. Pinpointing the cause of the problem is necessary to fixing it, right?

Usually large groups of introverted RPers have the exact opposite issue. Maybe it can effect it, maybe it can't. But based on my personal experiences and observations it doesn't

Also, what evidence do you have? If we're really going to start talking about reliability then you should really bring some reliable evidence of your own instead of just presenting a hypothesis and disregarding any evidence against it

You're right that my personal observations might be faulty, but when it comes to something as abstract as initiative, there's not much more than personal observation to go on. Unless you have some way to make initiative countable? In which case I'll be happy to go poll some RP communities on whether or not the members are introverted and then track how much initiative the introverts take as opposed to the extroverts

My evidence lies in the terms Extroverted and Introverted. They're core aspects of ones personally that dictate how concerned you are with those around you and yourself. Naturally if you're more concerned with yourself you aren't going to be approaching people as much as an extroverted person who is naturally, and I stress this word because it's important, outgoing. It's sheer common sense. Go look at any number of studies into these terms, you'll find a general consensus in this.

As for quantifying initiative, a study could be done throughout a variety of RPs. Select an assortment of RPs within different genres, have the involved RPers test for Intro/Extroversion and then perform a content analysis of the RPs, tallying the amount of times a PC independently started a conversation, approached an area without explicit or implicit direction from the host or attempted to interact with an object, again without hints. Then slap the results onto a bar graph, comparing initiative taken by introverts and extroverts respectively.

And I'd be willing to put money on the fact that 7/10 times it's the same people taking the initiative in these RPs, with various others trailing along after them.

[Rosesong]

I'm still not sure that the RP community here would be large enough to warrant these different subsections in the first place, Thomas. Don't get me wrong, it would be a fantastic thing for RPs with large amounts of people, and if memory serves, some RPs here have actually split into multiple threads before. However, for the purposes that we have here, I'm just not sure that it's a plausible idea.

[Sutoratosu]

Hell Tom, I can't really see anything too glaringly wrong with the layout suggestion. It certainly would help cut down on the amount of clutter and debris floating about here... and if we had an actual plan before we just went to administration about possibly adding subsections, had something we could show them that we've drafted up so that they don't have to rack their own minds...

Though rose also has a point about the relative small size of this sub culture here. We don;t have too many RPs like Ymora that get character recruits numbering somewhere upwards of the teens and into the twenties- which is one of the reasons why it stood out so much back during the original. Most of the RPs here are smaller, ten people at the most if they get lucky, maybe more... that small size could be a potential hurdle in a conversation with the Upper Auths about the need for it...

And then there's also the matter that alot of the clutter could be cleaned up with just an actually competent use of tags... if people started using them better, that would make the fact that you can't find a particular topic in the main page irrelevant because you could just search at the bottom of anything related to it... but that's beside the point, cause technically... still clutter... but clutter isn't the main objective of this chat... still a potential point we could use though.

Right now, I'm trying to just put together whether the plausibility of convincing Ame or Ikaru or someone that this type of addition to the forum would be justified than anything else. Even if we all were to agree that it's needed, it would still be kinda pointless if we had no argument actually put together to present to them...

[Commander]

Thomas, I get what you're say, but that in and of itself is a problem within a problem. This is not a roleplay site so something like that would not work and with 10 or so roleplays getting at once, we're just going to get into a mess of keeping track of what stuff goes where. I do prefer the everybody on one page method for smaller groups so that I don't have to keep flipping topic after topic to figure out what is going on. Ymora is one of the very rare big ones so...I can't justify that many topics. At the most, we'll have a sub-sub forum where OOCs go and then have the ability to create more than one post topic in the main section. However, now is not the time or justification to do such actions.

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I also think the forum is still quite young so most people are not too familiar with the basics and we often go through waves of new members. Instead of trying to fight about what we need to do, maybe it might be a good idea to ask some of the less involved and not very well know RPers who have been on for a short amount of time. I know when I first joined, I felt like a deer in the headlights and still have days where I'm not quite too sure what to do to start off in an RP.

We are not a community built around roleplay which is the big reason why people are so quiet or not knowing. It's kind of like asking any of us to build a program for a game...with little to no instructions. Those who are familiar with it will succeed rather quickly and others will start slow and force themselves to catch up (like me), but the majority will struggle so much they'll simply quit before it begins. We just need to rework RPs so that they're easy to learn and that the community is really trying to help.

[Rosesong]

Right now, I'm trying to just put together whether the plausibility of convincing Ame or Ikaru or someone that this type of addition to the forum would be justified than anything else. Even if we all were to agree that it's needed, it would still be kinda pointless if we had no argument actually put together to present to them...

On this note, I'm going to very strongly ask that no one in this thread jump the gun on an idea like this. We as players need to actively discuss the pros and cons of this sort of format and then present the ideas to Murdoc and Hukuna. They, in turn, as the mods of the subforum, should go to Ame/Ikaru/Dan. If singular people go to them with no clearly thought out argument complete with pros, cons, and implementation, as well as guidelines and the other things, the idea would be vetoed straight away.

Tl;dr-- Follow the chain of command and don't get too excited

[Tomas Elliot]

I'm still not sure that the RP community here would be large enough to warrant these different subsections in the first place, Thomas. Don't get me wrong, it would be a fantastic thing for RPs with large amounts of people, and if memory serves, some RPs here have actually split into multiple threads before. However, for the purposes that we have here, I'm just not sure that it's a plausible idea.

Yes, I do understand this concern. In my view, it all depends on how things start: I mean, if we were to introduce this solution at a time when many large RPs are being active, then many people would immediately make use of the new feature, which in turn would encourage even the roleplayers of the small RPs to make use of it, which in turn would improve our roleplaying community as a whole.

But if this solution is introduced at a time when activity is dwindling, then it would probably result in a massive failure and a waste of time...

So yeah, it's a gamble. I understand what Stratos is saying: we need to provide convincing arguments to the people in charge to have this feature implemented... But quite honestly, I don't have such arguments. It's a gamble, it can turn out very good or very bad depending on the timing. Heck if someone accepted to be my co-host, I'd actually be willing to revive the YGO roleplay just for the sake of having one RP with over 15 members, so that this new feature could be put to good use right off the bat...

In short: with this kind of stuff, the first impact is everything. If such a new feature sees regular usage within its first week of existance, then we can rest assured that it will turn into a long-term success. But if it doesn't, then it is doomed to fail...

And as far as Commander's point goes, I did mention that people not being used to roleplaying, or not being good at it, is also an issue, and I am well aware that implementing the feature I am suggesting without solving that issue first could set up a potential disaster. But well, how about we work on that too? It's what I always say to noobs: have you tried, I don't know, NOT BEING A NOOB?

By definition, people are inexperienced because they lack experience. But if we help them gain such experience with guides, more precise rules, maybe even a bunch of volunteers willing to provide step-by-step assistance, then the problem is solved, isn't it?

[Felicity]

On this note, I'm going to very strongly ask that no one in this thread jump the gun on an idea like this. We as players need to actively discuss the pros and cons of this sort of format and then present the ideas to Murdoc and Hukuna. They, in turn, as the mods of the subforum, should go to Ame/Ikaru/Dan. If singular people go to them with no clearly thought out argument complete with pros, cons, and implementation, as well as guidelines and the other things, the idea would be vetoed straight away.

Tl;dr-- Follow the chain of command and don't get too excited

Um

I might have already brought something up to Huk and Murdoc. The conversation had just touched on the idea of subsections when Tomas mentioned it, so I brought it up to them in private. Below is an outline of the idea along with the pros and cons I could think of.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WpEp4vmgjWyJYOYZMv5zTuNZ7D8I0x9uluacmWxc-cQ/edit

[Rosesong]

Um

I might have already brought something up to Huk and Murdoc. The conversation had just touched on the idea of subsections when Tomas mentioned it, so I brought it up to them in private. Below is an outline of the idea along with the pros and cons I could think of.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WpEp4vmgjWyJYOYZMv5zTuNZ7D8I0x9uluacmWxc-cQ/edit

Dobby, if we as players go to Hukuna and Murdoc, that's fine. But we do not need to go to Ame/Ikaru/Dan-- that's the point I was making. Doing that offers more of a chance for the idea to be vetoed as there wasn't a clear meeting where all the outcomes were thought of. At the same time, communication with the Three Powers that Be is also one of the reasons that Hukuna and Murdoc have their jobs as mods; we shouldn't try to go over their heads when they're probably on the same side that we are.

[Tomas Elliot]

Leave it to Dobby to jump the gun.

IMO the idea of purchasable sub-sections would be much more complex and more difficult to implement than, you know, just having 3 sub-sections in this forum that everyone can make use of...

[Felicity]

Oh, gotcha. Yeah, I didn't take that to Ame yet. Just to the RP mods. Not sure if they've seen it yet...

Leave it to Dobby to jump the gun.

IMO the idea of purchasable sub-sections would be much more complex and more difficult to implement than, you know, just having 3 sub-sections in this forum that everyone can make use of...

How so? You buy the item and poof, a sub-section appears for the allocated host or RP due to the graces of the forum gods that be.

[Tomas Elliot]

But the act of implementing a system that makes sub-sections available for purchasing is, IMO, way too complicated. On the other hand, with my idea you just make 3 sub-forums and that's it.

Also, with my idea the 3 sub-forums would be there for everyone to use, meaning that, even if a roleplay that exploits them regularly (on the account of having many roleplayers) suddenly fails or has a loss of activity or simply reaches its intended end and is closed, those sub-sections still remain there for new roleplays to use. They are a service to the community as a whole.

But your purchased sub-sections are a service exclusively for one roleplay: what will happen to them if the roleplay fails/is suspended/ends?

[Felicity]

But the act of implementing a system that makes sub-sections available for purchasing is, IMO, way too complicated. On the other hand, with my idea you just make 3 sub-forums and that's it.

Also, with my idea the 3 sub-forums would be there for everyone to use, meaning that, even if a roleplay that exploits them regularly (on the account of having many roleplayers) suddenly fails or has a loss of activity or simply reaches its intended end and is closed, those sub-sections still remain there for new roleplays to use. They are a service to the community as a whole.

But your purchased sub-sections are a service exclusively for one roleplay: what will happen to them if the roleplay fails/is suspended/ends?

Look to the precedents I mentioned briefly. PZA and nations. They had their own subsections made and, later, closed down. I'm assuming they were essentially hidden from public view. If the RP dies, the same thing would happen. Any talk of revival would be started in the main RP forum and later moved into the old sub-section should it be purchased again.

[Sutoratosu]

On this note, I'm going to very strongly ask that no one in this thread jump the gun on an idea like this. We as players need to actively discuss the pros and cons of this sort of format and then present the ideas to Murdoc and Hukuna. They, in turn, as the mods of the subforum, should go to Ame/Ikaru/Dan. If singular people go to them with no clearly thought out argument complete with pros, cons, and implementation, as well as guidelines and the other things, the idea would be vetoed straight away.

Tl;dr-- Follow the chain of command and don't get too excited

This right here, to all those youngsters out there who might get ideas...

plus, given the fact that we're still going back and forth trying to debate the pros and cons anyway, we're stll not even ready to decide if it's worth approaching the chain of command and actually proposing it to anyone at all. And even if we do by some miracle come to a decision, you don't send small fish to talk to big wigs.

I also think the forum is still quite young so most people are not too familiar with the basics and we often go through waves of new members. Instead of trying to fight about what we need to do, maybe it might be a good idea to ask some of the less involved and not very well know RPers who have been on for a short amount of time. I know when I first joined, I felt like a deer in the headlights and still have days where I'm not quite too sure what to do to start off in an RP.

We are not a community built around roleplay which is the big reason why people are so quiet or not knowing. It's kind of like asking any of us to build a program for a game...with little to no instructions. Those who are familiar with it will succeed rather quickly and others will start slow and force themselves to catch up (like me), but the majority will struggle so much they'll simply quit before it begins. We just need to rework RPs so that they're easy to learn and that the community is really trying to help.

And as always, commander has a point as well... I've seen it more than enough times, with a few rare exceptions here and there, whenever any overall action happens around here, it's always the same people doing it- the more experienced, more versed members... I have seen very little attempted by any newbies... and this is from an observation in quite a few different RPs.

Hell, the same can said for this thread. Look at it. The same more experienced, more versed members who are doing all the discussing. With two or three exceptions, I don't see too many who can be considered "New" to the forum or who isn't as involved trying to speak up... But Tom has a point that there's only so much of an excuse this can offer.

Being new and inexperienced at something isn't an issue that can be solved be merely staying in the corner and acting meek as a mouse. By the very definition of the concept, the only way to stop being new, and stop being inexperienced, is to JUST DO IT. The only solution is to try, because if you try, that opens the doorway for progress, and progress opens the door for grow.

So while yes, people being new and feeling abit unsure and intimidated is a factor here, one has to take into account that there is only so much a senior or more experienced member can do to help them and try to bring them out of the corner and learn. We can spend all night and day trying to help them, but if they don't want to take the first step in helping, there's not much we can do for them. We may post all the guides, discussion topics, hyperlink to all the resources we wish, but... if people don't use them, or don't come for further help if they need it, what else are we to do? how else are we to try?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink. The excuse only extends so far before one has to ask the question tom Posed; have they at least tried not being a "noob"? tried to get better? Cause if not, well... at the end of the day, people can go blue in the face trying to help you out, but if you don't want to take that first step and lend them a hand, take that first bit of responsibility for yourself and your own improvement, then not much is gonna come out of the endeavor.

[Rosesong]

To be completely honest, Commander's suggestion of having a separate place for ICs, OOCs, and InterestChecks seems like a fantastic idea to me. Now, the following is commentary on the GoogleDocs that Dobby linked:

• The problem with purchasing subsections would be that I'm not entirely certain creating subforums is in Hukuna and Murdoc's domain of power, meaning that the Three Powers that Be (this means Ame/Ikaru/Dan, for future reference) would need to step in and actually create these. That would create more strain on them as they try to improve the site in other ways. Also, the feasibility of that would come into question. Would the subsections stay forever, would there be a time limit before they disappear and would have to be repurchased, would there be a renewal/continued use fee per month? In my opinion, the logistics of having something like this would be extremely messy and drag more people into the workings of the RP forum than are honestly needed.
• The idea of subsections would seem to do the opposite and cut down on the clutter; however, for newer players that haven't met those with more experienced players, this set up would be highly confusing. Guides can be of help, sure, but if a system seems too confusing from the getgo, prospective new players would be less inclined to attempt to figure it out. Clarity is a major point that needs to be considered, so that the format is easily understood to all that would like to try RPing.

That's just what I see as of right now.

Also, Dobby, the PZA and Nations subforums were deleted, meaning that all topics moved back into the main Hall of Champions thread.

[Tomas Elliot]

Those are not relevant examples, Dobby, as those were events that interested the whole community. Or at least a relevant part of it: this is a Pokemon-themed forum, so you'd think that the majority of people here would be interested in, oh I don't know, a competitive Pokemon event maybe?

So yeah, if I were Ame, who is already a rather busy person, I'd find it worth it to go through the chore of eliminating unused sections if it is for the sake of having a Pokemon event many people are interested in.

But a roleplay about something other than Pokemon, that started out with big plans and then went nowhere? Uh... Not so much.

On the other hand, with my original idea Ame would simply create 3 sub-forums and leave them there for everyone to use. It requires a MUCH smaller amount of work on her part and, because of this, it has the highest chance of getting approved IMO.

And as far as the "only a limited amount of veterans ever do relevant stuff" thing goes, I stand by my point: LET'S CREATE MORE VETERANS. There must be something we can do about it... You know what? After an initial moment of confusion and "I don't really know how to use this", which is to be expected whenever something you is implemented, I actually think that the idea of the 3 sub-forums would help us in helping noobs to stop being noobs.

I mean, think about it: you are a noob. You have the chance to engage in a character-developing roleplay, just you and a veteran, in a separated topic in a separated section, without the time constraints and without the posts of 15 more people to go through. And the mentioned section is full of such topics from many other veterans you can read as an example.

Leading by example is all we good roleplayers can do. Let's get ourselves the best tools and the best circumstances to do it.

[Felicity]

Hm. Noted.

In regards to sorting out the logistics, it's pretty simple, should a rent system be applied, like with server rooms.

Buy a subsection, wait a month, pay the rent. continue until a payment isn't made, then the subsection is deleted and subsequent topics are dumped into the regular subforum, organised by date of post. If the RP goes defunct, it doesn't interfere with the ongoing RP because they would be sorted behind the ongoing ones.

I came up with that in 10 minutes. The only thing making it messy is the idea of it. Because dealing with numbers is terrible.

As for the issue of complication, whilst I still think it could be sorted with adequate clarification and guides I see your point in that a bustling subforum can be disorienting. This isn't too serious a problem though until the RP starts losing players and signups start to dry out. Still, it'd be an issue for the host to handle in regards to clarification. Some may go with a similar idea as Tomas' and not be complicated at all. Just larger than the average RP.

EDIT: We also can't comment on the ease of making a subsection until a knowledgable mod steps in. Too many assumptions being made, so let's stay away from that point until Huk or Murdoc get here.

[Chevaleresse]

From what I understand, it -might- be possible to give sub-subforum creation permissions to local moderators, but I wouldn't count on that.

[Tomas Elliot]

I stand by my point: let's create 3 sub-sections usable by everyone. Easy to do, doesn't create confusion (if the "renting sub-sections" idea catches up, the amount of sub-sections could rapidly and needlessly escalate), and is a service for the whole community, as the 3 sub-sections remain there for everyone to use even if one individual roleplay ends.

Welp, I believe I have explained/defended/expanded on my instances enough. If I were to further post I would end up repeating stuff I have already said, and that would be rather pointless, so I shall drop out for now (also because it's past 1 AM and I need some sleep). Murdoc/Huk please do read my posts on page 2 if you haven't yet, and let me know what you think.

[Rosesong]

And as far as the "only a limited amount of veterans ever do relevant stuff" thing goes, I stand by my point: LET'S CREATE MORE VETERANS. There must be something we can do about it... You know what? After an initial moment of confusion and "I don't really know how to use this", which is to be expected whenever something you is implemented, I actually think that the idea of the 3 sub-forums would help us in helping noobs to stop being noobs.

I mean, think about it: you are a noob. You have the chance to engage in a character-developing roleplay, just you and a veteran, in a separated topic in a separated section, without the time constraints and without the posts of 15 more people to go through. And the mentioned section is full of such topics from many other veterans you can read as an example.

As Strat reasonably pointed out though, unless the newbies are actively trying to improve, there isn't much we can do. It's akin to the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it." We as vets can offer, guide, and provide assistance to help new players become skilled, but at the end of the day it's up to the new players to implement the help into their own RPing.

As for the issue of complication, whilst I still think it could be sorted with adequate clarification and guides I see your point in that a bustling subforum can be disorienting. This isn't too serious a problem though until the RP starts losing players and signups start to dry out. Still, it'd be an issue for the host to handle in regards to clarification. Some may go with a similar idea as Tomas' and not be complicated at all. Just larger than the average RP.

I would think that we would want to proactively catch the possibility of this occurring so that RPs don't lose players and sign-ups are still plentiful. And of course about the ease of sub-forum creation; I'm merely going off of what I've heard from some of the auths, though I admit heresay isn't a viable form of evidence.

[Commander]

Trust me when I say very few people will be able to do a rent sub-section as we're making a very high bar on it (It'll be about 7,200-9,000 for the first full years). It's not some simple everybody make one as that'd be like saying everyone can buy ace. I still don't think completely changing the layout is the key problem in all of this as we have a small group of roleplayers. However, it is something to consider down the line to speed up some roleplay. I myself prefer a more linear type roleplay and would probably pass on a bigger roleplay idea like Thomas suggested.

This is already starting to go around in circles so I do suggest we stop presenting changes in the overall layout and get back to the main focus of the problem and what power a normal user has to fix it. We're a community within a community, so changes need huge justification and proof that they will work. Just saying it will isn't exactly proof and the full Reborn community is a bit...strange which is why I love it here.

[Darvan Korematsu]

Like Commander said. We've pretty much worn out most of our considerably good ideas, from what I and others have seen, without us going in another loop.

This is stemming a tad too far from the original question and statement that was presented to us, instead talking about changing the subforum rather than RPs themselves 'round here.

Please shaddap people.

That and I'm tired of seeing these walls of text that all allude to about the same point and counter point.

[Rosesong]

Well, I'd like to present something that has intrigued me during the course of this conversation. I would like to make an observation and say that in the course of this conversation, a fair few RPers have taken initiative and actively taken part in this conversation, whether it be through discussion or providing solutions.

My inquiry for everyone, including myself, is that why is this format so much different from the RPs that we take part in? The basic premise is, to me at least, sort of the same. We're all here, under aliases, and have taken a topic set forth by our host, whom happens to be Murdoc as he created the topic, gave us our plot (a problem within the subforum) and a setting to do so in (the forums). Why can we not apply these same skills to the RPs we're in?

Maybe I'm absolutely crazy and drawing parallels where none can be reasonably drawn, but if we were all to apply the level of engagement that we've shown in this discussion into our RPs, it would help to solve the problem.

[Commander]

I think it has to do with the levels of engagement, Rose. Obviously, all of us are quite interested in the topic and believe we have something to bring to the table though we don't know what will come of it, we're not afraid to say it. Half the reason I couldn't keep that old Fire Emblem RP was that I couldn't make the battles interesting as it was mostly me controlling them and had to explain so much. It didn't feel like much thought was being put in it from the players.

For the reroll, I'm trying out a roll type system where basically higher numbers are good while lower numbers are bad. Basically, it's an easy way to force some independence or trying things out when a bad draw happens as it's possible to get out of it if you use the system to your advantage. Bloody 10s are insta-death to whoever is attacking so nothing is ever certain. It's kind of like giving advice without giving advice at all as they are the ones who have to make the decisions.