Things that you DONT like on Pokemon Reborn.

[DerogatoryTrainer]

I'm assuming he'll be redeemed in the future (where he'll use this sprite) and I'll forgive him then, but for now, > : ( is my opinion of him.

That doesn't seem like a redeeming kind of outfit...

[ZEL]

its not as if he has shown any traits that make him likeable. He has no inherently good traits outside his determination (which he misuses for "evil" purposes").

Bennett shows that he is curious and passionate about knowledge when it comes to things he feels emotionally invested in. His hobby is something he excels at and he's portrayed as studious and possibly also a fast learner.

He seems to be striving for personal growth, not just strength, and that's what makes me believe that he is in fact redeemable, because while he can't undo the mistakes he's made, he does have the potential to see the error of his ways and improve to be a better person.

I forgot who brought up the possibility of Bennett's character theme being metamorphosis, but I like that idea a lot and see it as a likely outcome.

Bennett is someone who needs to learn to guide his determination and passion with more care, instead of acting on greed.

That's really what he needs to understand the most - that he is being greedy about what he wants, and that he doesn't have a right to everything he desires.

I dislike the idea that a character is "irredeemable" after they've done a bad thing. Bennett still has plenty of chances to prove himself as a better person than he is now.

His immaturity and lacking understanding of boundaries is nowhere near the level of characters like Sirius (who legitimately feels neither sympathy nor pity for anyone else). He's just that - an immature boy who is being emotionally manipulated by a far older person with ulterior motives. He is being exploited, and this is what turned him into the kind of character we currently know him as. El knew exactly what he was doing.

Bennett may not be a super sympathetic character who we'd all rush to protect with our lives, but with all his flaws, he didn't turn into who he is right now completely on his own accord. He just needs a chance to redeem himself, and I think he'll eventually get it.

[FairFamily]

Bennett shows that he is curious and passionate about knowledge when it comes to things he feels emotionally invested in. His hobby is something he excels at and he's portrayed as studious and possibly also a fast learner.

He seems to be striving for personal growth, not just strength, and that's what makes me believe that he is in fact redeemable, because while he can't undo the mistakes he's made, he does have the potential to see the error of his ways and improve to be a better person.

I forgot who brought up the possibility of Bennett's character theme being metamorphosis, but I like that idea a lot and see it as a likely outcome.

Bennett is someone who needs to learn to guide his determination and passion with more care, instead of acting on greed.

That's really what he needs to understand the most - that he is being greedy about what he wants, and that he doesn't have a right to everything he desires.

I dislike the idea that a character is "irredeemable" after they've done a bad thing. Bennett still has plenty of chances to prove himself as a better person than he is now.

His immaturity and lacking understanding of boundaries is nowhere near the level of characters like Sirius (who legitimately feels neither sympathy nor pity for anyone else). He's just that - an immature boy who is being emotionally manipulated by a far older person with ulterior motives. He is being exploited, and this is what turned him into the kind of character we currently know him as. El knew exactly what he was doing.

Bennett may not be a super sympathetic character who we'd all rush to protect with our lives, but with all his flaws, he didn't turn into who he is right now completely on his own accord. He just needs a chance to redeem himself, and I think he'll eventually get it.

I don't know if he is irredeemable but still he's had his second chance and blew it. He could have accepted that Luna didn't reciprocate his feelings and move on with his life. Instead he tried to steal the plug, failed an runned back to El who he admits does not try what is best for Luna.

[5hift]

Mystery egg...

[ZEL]

I don't know if he is irredeemable but still he's had his second chance and blew it. He could have accepted that Luna didn't reciprocate his feelings and move on with his life. Instead he tried to steal the plug, failed an runned back to El who he admits does not try what is best for Luna.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that was actually meant to show a chance for him to redeem himself. I don't think that at the point where you meet him in Iolia Valley, Bennett actually understands why he should apologize, and what for. He clearly still seems to fail to realize that he cannot change Luna's feeling no matter what he tries. He hasn't grasped yet what's the issue.

Before he can make an honest apology and better himself, he needs to clearly see what's wrong.

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

I dislike the idea that a character is "irredeemable" after they've done a bad thing. Bennett still has plenty of chances to prove himself as a better person than he is now.

His immaturity and lacking understanding of boundaries is nowhere near the level of characters like Sirius (who legitimately feels neither sympathy nor pity for anyone else). He's just that - an immature boy who is being emotionally manipulated by a far older person with ulterior motives. He is being exploited, and this is what turned him into the kind of character we currently know him as. El knew exactly what he was doing.

I don't know why, but characters like Bennett always get to me more than characters like Sirius. Sirius is most likely either the worst person in Reborn or second-worst after Lin, but it's not the merciless house-burner and soul stealer that sets me off. It's the misguided kid who's easily influenced and has a poor control over (and possibly understanding of) his own emotions.

I've noticed this in a lot of games, books, etc. The people I absolutely can't stand usually aren't the major villains that are global-level threats.

They're the random throwaway assholes whose mouths and egos are bigger than their threat level, the school bullies, the abusive parents/guardians, the confused/misguided ones who are easily influenced, etc.

With someone like Sirius, it's like "You did bad thing or are trying to do bad thing, and I'm going to stop you!" and that's the end of the emotional investment. He needs to be stopped, but his actions, goals, and words don't make me angry on a personal level. But with Bennett, I want to rip him to pieces.

The best explanation I can think of for this is that it has to do with the way the characters carry themselves. Usually, those categories of villains I mentioned not being able to stand just act petty and disgusting and ridiculous (not in the good/fun way) and have very little if anything for me to like about them, while the main villains have a better chance of acting like a boss and/or having a personality or history that catches my interest.

In Bennett's case, he also kind of reminds me of creeps who can't take no for an answer which is why I said if I were Luna I'd slice through with him with Bisharp. I'd feel threatened enough to do it by reflex, and anger enough to do it even not by reflex because I despise those people.

I do think Bennett will be redeemed, and I'm looking forward to when/if it happens.

[Gh0stStark]

Bennett is portrayed as just young and misguided, that's the main picture I got of him at least after his introduction. However, during the rescue of Luna and Iolia Valley sections of the game, we see that he is conceited, obsessive and prone to violence once he doesn't get what he wants.

Bennett isn't stupid, so I believe he knows that Elias is in cahoots with Team Meteor, but he(Bennett) is still willing to associate himself with a man who's in league with a terrorist organization responsible for countless deaths and the destruction of a city, just for the sake of his ambition. That's actually the reason why I don't like him. So far he's just as much of an a**hole as Fern, less abrasive of course, but he is willing to become the lackey of a criminal just to achieve his goal and obtain the respect he thinks he deserves, whilst being unaware that if he fulfills his ambitions by those means, he will be shunned even more.

When thinking of redemption, I wish for him to look at himself, see what's wrong and then, set off on his own to solve those things the right way, instead of the impending moral spanking he will get from Serra. To put it simply, the only way by which Bennett can redeem himself in my eyes, is growing a pair, freeing himself from his crush, mom and El, giving the finger to those who think that he and his tastes are weird and grow as a person, while nursing his qualities and without losing his identity.

I've read that a few people here believe that Fern will turn on meteor as a means of redeeming himself, but I feel that it would be much better if it was Bennett to do that. After realizing the error of his ways, he could screw one of their plans himself or aid the player in doing so. It would be even more awesome if he chooses to keep his actions a secret, because it would show that he now seeks something more important than recognition and flattery.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Gh0stStark

[DerogatoryTrainer]

I've read that a few people here believe that Fern will turn on meteor as a means of redeeming himself.

How would that even redeem him really?

Did anyone actually like him before he joined Team Meteor?

I mean he's funny in a pathetic kind of way but that's about it

Edited July 21, 2016 by DerogatoryTrainer

[Gh0stStark]

How would that even redeem him really?

Did anyone actually like him before he joined Team Meteor?

I mean he's funny in a pathetic kind of way but that's about it

I don't remember precisely where I've read that, but I'm sure there are people who want Fern to improve as a person and believe that turning on meteor would be his chance to achieve that. I agree with you however. There's nothing likeable and redeemable about him, and seeing how he is always a jerk to Florinia, I can't even feel sympathy towards whatever issues he may have regarding his sister's behaviour.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Gh0stStark

[ZEL]

I remembered blabbering about Fern a bit after E15 came out, found the post, too.

http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14860&page=2#entry343299

I pity him, though how much depends on what we might or might not learn about what happened back when the Onyx girls had their drama / whatever else caused the rift between Fern and Florinia.

Fern is one of the characters I'm most curious about when it comes to future character development, because up until now it feels like he's so bitter and tries so hard to hide it, but something's clearly eating him, and I wanna know what.

He may not be a sympathetic character at all, but... I kind of like him anyway? In the sense that I like him as a character, rather than a person.

[Oxygen9]

I think it's pretty clear that Bennett was written to have autism (aspberger's/"on the spectrum"). Bennet has a narrow focus for which he's very passionate (bugs) and struggles with understanding social norms and interactions. He fantasizes about the idea of being with Luna rather than caring about her actual feelings, a common trope for the "nice guy" that people frequently associate with autism.

Bennett doesn't believe that he's doing anything wrong. His mind works differently from most; he isn't able to empathize as well as most people can. He doesn't understand why Luna is resisting him or why she denies him because in his mind he's doing what's best for Luna.

[TheMrQuit]

Oh wow, I didn't think writing a few sentences about one character could change this topic from "Things you don't like of Reborn" to "Why (almost) everyone hates Bennett". So, could we get back to a broader discussion? I mean, feel free to talk about Bennett, but add something else you didn't like; would that be okay?

So, did anyone here hate the puzzle where you have to go through a giant room Metal Gear Solid style without making a single mistake, just to discover you have to go half the way back to write a bunch of useless verses? Because I did.

Anyway, back to Bennett:

But Luna and bug types are literally the only thing he talks about. It's kinda hard to NOT notice hos obsessed he is with Luna from the get go. [...] Through there is a definite shift after he met El, and how he developed his stalkerish mentality once we saw him in Iolia Valley. Its easy to imagine how it first started to develop after he was taken in by El and he started rising in the ranks quickly. For someone who's been looked down upon and ignored their whole life, once put in a position of power its easy to imagine how get full of themselves once they suddenly get treated like someone important like Bennett did under El. In general I get the feeling that he solely joined El because he said he was Luna's father, just notice his reaction when El said Luna was his daughter. And thus after he got taken in and was brainwashed/fed lies by El his current mentality developed. Its kinda tragic really, since our hate towards Bennett should really be directed toward El who encouraged and begot his behavior.

But no, instead Bennett gets treated as the most hated character in all of Reborn...

As I've already said, fair enough about his obsession for Luna. But for that reason, I can't really believe it's going to be just a temporary crush, something that will go away that easily, considering the possessive nature he tends to have. And I have NOT said I hate Bennett as a character, rather HOW he's been developed, as I feel he fails to be the disgusting, squishy sort of a character I expected him to be: he feels like a SOMEWHAT reasonable person, and that's why I said I thought his love confession was a bit out of character, just as much as his decision to join El. It feels to me the game is forcing me to hate him, rather than being a natural thing. Also, I'm sorry I can't agree with hating of El instead of Bennett, first of all because the decisions you make are your own, also it's clear his decision was a deliberate way to make the player hate him. Thirdly, because:

I don't know why, but characters like Bennett always get to me more than characters like Sirius. Sirius is most likely either the worst person in Reborn or second-worst after Lin, but it's not the merciless house-burner and soul stealer that sets me off. It's the misguided kid who's easily influenced and has a poor control over (and possibly understanding of) his own emotions.

I absolutely agree with you on this, and I believe it's the main reason people hate Bennett so much in the first place. People like Lin, El or Dr. Sigmund are smart and powerful (El's lies and tricks are VERY convincing, Lin is just broken), as much as their brilliant minds are used to do evil; this quality is always, if subconsciously, respected and appreciated: you feel they are dangerous people because they know a lot and they are powerful, and a part of us wants to become stronger than them, or they are so mighty we fear them. That's also why we tend to have a soft side for antagonists which play the role of a main character, because they're always intelligent and competent with whatever they're doing. Characters like Bennett or Fern instead, they just come off as petty or antisocial: they are fundamentally weak, and on top of that they act cocky as if they knew better than us when they clearly don't. They are spoiled brats, which are among the worst people you can interact with, and you just wish you could slap them over and over and over to knock some common sense into the little, ignorant heads.

Bennett is portrayed as just young and misguided, that's the main picture I got of him at least after his introduction. However, during the rescue of Luna and Iolia Valley sections of the game, we see that he is conceited, obsessive and prone to violence once he doesn't get what he wants.

Bennett isn't stupid, so I believe he knows that Elias is in cahoots with Team Meteor, but he(Bennett) is still willing to associate himself with a man who's in league with a terrorist organization responsible for countless deaths and the destruction of a city, just for the sake of his ambition. That's actually the reason why I don't like him. So far he's just as much of an a**hole as Fern, less abrasive of course, but he is willing to become the lackey of a criminal just to achieve his goal and obtain the respect he thinks he deserves, whilst being unaware that if he fulfills his ambitions by those means, he will be shunned even more.

When thinking of redemption, I wish for him to look at himself, see what's wrong and then, set off on his own to solve those things the right way, instead of the impending moral spanking he will get from Serra. To put it simply, the only way by which Bennett can redeem himself in my eyes, is growing a pair, freeing himself from his crush, mom and El, giving the finger to those who think that he and his tastes are weird and grow as a person, while nursing his qualities and without losing his identity.

I've read that a few people here believe that Fern will turn on meteor as a means of redeeming himself, but I feel that it would be much better if it was Bennett to do that. After realizing the error of his ways, he could screw one of their plans himself or aid the player in doing so. It would be even more awesome if he chooses to keep his actions a secret, because it would show that he now seeks something more important than recognition and flattery.

Exactly what felt weird to me was how a young and misguided character could be turned into a conceited, obsessive, "stalkerish" kind of character: it's too extreme of a change. And while I do think he will get a redemption, I honestly wish he will not, to avoid cliches (isn't Cal enough?): he could become a villain of the worst kind, because he has the intelligence and the determination (*game saved* ) to grow from a petty person who's always commanded, subordinated and rejected to someone who truly wishes the destruction of everything and everyone as payback for all the world has done to him. He isn't stupid, as you say, at the same time he feels the world has been unfair to him, because he's intelligent yet he has no relevant position in society. Then, he is betrayed by El, he is betrayed by Luna and everyone else... that would be the point at which he breaks, and really becomes dangerous as he seeks revenge. Although I do have to say, the idea of a metamorphosis connected to the bug type IS pretty cool.

[Gh0stStark]

Oh wow, I didn't think writing a few sentences about one character could change this topic from "Things you don't like of Reborn" to "Why (almost) everyone hates Bennett". So, could we get back to a broader discussion? I mean, feel free to talk about Bennett, but add something else you didn't like; would that be okay?

So, did anyone here hate the puzzle where you have to go through a giant room Metal Gear Solid style without making a single mistake, just to discover you have to go half the way back to write a bunch of useless verses? Because I did.

Anyway, back to Bennett:

As I've already said, fair enough about his obsession for Luna. But for that reason, I can't really believe it's going to be just a temporary crush, something that will go away that easily, considering the possessive nature he tends to have. And I have NOT said I hate Bennett as a character, rather HOW he's been developed, as I feel he fails to be the disgusting, squishy sort of a character I expected him to be: he feels like a SOMEWHAT reasonable person, and that's why I said I thought his love confession was a bit out of character, just as much as his decision to join El. It feels to me the game is forcing me to hate him, rather than being a natural thing. Also, I'm sorry I can't agree with hating of El instead of Bennett, first of all because the decisions you make are your own, also it's clear his decision was a deliberate way to make the player hate him. Thirdly, because:

I absolutely agree with you on this, and I believe it's the main reason people hate Bennett so much in the first place. People like Lin, El or Dr. Sigmund are smart and powerful (El's lies and tricks are VERY convincing, Lin is just broken), as much as their brilliant minds are used to do evil; this quality is always, if subconsciously, respected and appreciated: you feel they are dangerous people because they know a lot and they are powerful, and a part of us wants to become stronger than them, or they are so mighty we fear them. That's also why we tend to have a soft side for antagonists which play the role of a main character, because they're always intelligent and competent with whatever they're doing. Characters like Bennett or Fern instead, they just come off as petty or antisocial: they are fundamentally weak, and on top of that they act cocky as if they knew better than us when they clearly don't. They are spoiled brats, which are among the worst people you can interact with, and you just wish you could slap them over and over and over to knock some common sense into the little, ignorant heads.

Exactly what felt weird to me was how a young and misguided character could be turned into a conceited, obsessive, "stalkerish" kind of character: it's too extreme of a change. And while I do think he will get a redemption, I honestly wish he will not, to avoid cliches (isn't Cal enough?): he could become a villain of the worst kind, because he has the intelligence and the determination (*game saved* ) to grow from a petty person who's always commanded, subordinated and rejected to someone who truly wishes the destruction of everything and everyone as payback for all the world has done to him. He isn't stupid, as you say, at the same time he feels the world has been unfair to him, because he's intelligent yet he has no relevant position in society. Then, he is betrayed by El, he is betrayed by Luna and everyone else... that would be the point at which he breaks, and really becomes dangerous as he seeks revenge. Although I do have to say, the idea of a metamorphosis connected to the bug type IS pretty cool.

Well, I believe the whole metamorphosis idea is the crux of his character, and if he is denied that, then it will definitely feel weird. I wouldn't like it if he were to become the "Obito" of reborn: A shunned kid that suddenly turns evil because of a girl and the influence of an old man. I think it's pretty obvious that if he ever becomes truly evil, Luna's rejection will be the main reason behind that, and that's just small.

I don't think the world has done many bad things to him, only an unanswered crush and tastes not shared by everyone, so nothing can justify his turn from a misguided kid with poor social skills into a vengeful behemoth. It would actually betray what we believe is his theme as a character.

The metamorphosis on bugs, is a growth process and to me, the word growth is intimately tied to personal improvement. Take a caterpillar for example: a bug that many consider disgusting, some species are toxic, it sluggishly crawls from plant to plant devouring several leaves but then, it grows into a butterfly. It becomes a creature that is viewed as a symbol of beauty and grace in several cultures, welcome in all gardens because on top of adding to their beauty it is also a very efficient pollinator.

That's what I would expect of Benett. He doesn't need to become Prince Charming, or a psycho. He should just become normal. And by normal I mean accept that not everyone likes what he likes, learn that he can't have everything he wants, learn he doesn't know everything and more importantly, earning his own niche in that world by staying true to those two qualities that he mentions: diligence and commitment.

[mr-mooster]

I just started playing this last week and I have about 10hrs logged already. I am about to fight Florinia but I need to level up my very imbalanced team first.

I like Reborn so far but here's the things I don't like that much about it.

-The map. It's too small and there's no way to zoom in.

-The encounter rate is very low. I would like it increased since there's not many places to find wild Pokemon and it takes forever to find just one thing to fight.

-The music can be a little much sometimes. The Pokemon Center music is not very good. It get off time and feels very uncomfortable to listen to.

-A way for the game to teach you about the field effects. Maybe NPCs in the gyms can give you hints about what the effects do.

-Trainer Rematches (unless those are actually in there and I just didn't get to that point yet)

-Better descriptions for the food items like ice cream and pokesnax.

[Gh0stStark]

Regarding the field effects there's a place that will explain them in game or you can check the Field Effects readme file on Reborn's download folder...

Edit: There are trainers that can be rematched. They will be found a little further.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Gh0stStark

[Tartar]

-A way for the game to teach you about the field effects. Maybe NPCs in the gyms can give you hints about what the effects do.

-Trainer Rematches (unless those are actually in there and I just didn't get to that point yet)

1: There's actually a location just before you arrive at the 3rd gym where all the information is gathered. Sadly its a bit remote and not easily accessable for revisits, but the information is there.

2: In the Reborn Hall (First Pokécenter) there are a bunch of trainers you can re-battle, so do your grinding there.

[Anstane]

1: There's actually a location just before you arrive at the 3rd gym where all the information is gathered. Sadly its a bit remote and not easily accessable for revisits, but the information is there.

2: In the Reborn Hall (First Pokécenter) there are a bunch of trainers you can re-battle, so do your grinding there.

With the second point, be warned that you DO need to beat the Beryl Ward gym leader before the rematch NPC's start appearing. Until you get to that point...yeah, have fun fighting wild pokemon over and over again

[Amanojaku]

With the second point, be warned that you DO need to beat the Beryl Ward gym leader before the rematch NPC's start appearing. Until you get to that point...yeah, have fun fighting wild pokemon over and over again

That's thankfully going to be fixed on EP16, though.

[Craxuan]

Completely subjective opinion that you may ignore: The wasteland. I know it's meant to make people uncomfortable, but yeah, traveling through it makes me want to strangle someone. And I'm still not sure why I couldn't find Squirtle even though I lit everything red and went on a rainy day to the spot where it's supposed to be, but it's not, and the thought of redoing it again makes me want to rip skulls in half. So, I'm going to let it drown in mud and die.

And puzzles can go to hell I'm using guides on ALL of them.

Subjective opinion that you probably should consider: Lots of side quests require you to backtrack an insane amount of times, and attempting to find Event Pokemon sometimes feel like whack-a-mole on the entire Reborn map.

Silent protagonists are staple in literally every official Pokemon game ever, but in this game the player feels so god damn powerless. Coming face to face with Corey and seeing him jump and the protagonist doing NOTHING - and the dialogue suggests he said NOTHING either - is... like wow. There are also a lot of bad moments that could've been prevented if the protagonist said or did something that's 'common sense'.

Also, I'm a new player and I haven't finished this yet, but are we truly expected to win EVERY battle, even 'impossible/you-can-lose-and-still-proceed' fights, to get the best ending? Not to mention the choices you pick such as Sirius or Sigmund battle. This seems really very unnecessarily harsh, considering that replaying the whole game *shudders* takes a minimum of tens of hours. Don't take this the wrong way - if Evoas was allowed to expand to the same scale as this it would be my top #1 Pokemon fan game, but since it's not this is currently the indisputable #1 Pokemon fan game in my list. Nothing even comes close to beating it (although, somewhere in the world, a new Pokemon fangame plots to dethrone Reborn once and for all...), but at the same time, jesus christ lord save me from having to play this massive game again from the start, with no deviations allowed in either choices or battles (WIN OR RIGHT OR NOTHING).

Edited July 23, 2016 by Craxuan

[Razkar]

For squirtle, it has to be rainy when you speak to the scientist but sunny when you are at the pokemon location

[mr-mooster]

With the second point, be warned that you DO need to beat the Beryl Ward gym leader before the rematch NPC's start appearing. Until you get to that point...yeah, have fun fighting wild pokemon over and over again

1: There's actually a location just before you arrive at the 3rd gym where all the information is gathered. Sadly its a bit remote and not easily accessable for revisits, but the information is there.

2: In the Reborn Hall (First Pokécenter) there are a bunch of trainers you can re-battle, so do your grinding there.

Thanks! Unfortunately I'm still grinding for the 2nd gym so it'll be a while before I get to rebattle anyone.

[Craxuan]

For squirtle, it has to be rainy when you speak to the scientist but sunny when you are at the pokemon location

What if none of my weather says sunny?

[Personthing]

What if none of my weather says sunny?

Actually, I think it just has to be clear weather to find the squirtle, after you've already triggered the event with the guys who mentions it.

[ebonywolf]

I guess people complained enough about terra and other characters.

So let me try to bring something new.

Lack of tms and trainers is one thing, but not even being able to inherit moves by breeding(because of stupid gen 6). Makes pokemons completely dependent on their moves by level up, which makes several tm dependent pokemons quite useless/underpowered like ludicolo, klefky, eevee evolutions.

Also, route 1. Wasted so much time thinking it was the right way to go and all that for a heracross.

[Tartar]

Lack of tms and trainers is one thing, but not even being able to inherit moves by breeding(because of stupid gen 6). Makes pokemons completely dependent on their moves by level up, which makes several tm dependent pokemons quite useless/underpowered like ludicolo, klefky, eevee evolutions.

You can still learn Egg Moves, though you can't get TM's through breeding anymore.

Though i don't really see this as a negative, since if we had access to powerful moves like Earthquake, Flamethrower etc. the game's difficulty would be too low.