Tier Changes the 3rd

[Kiozo]

@Ame, I'd say so.

@Cloud, your arguements are funny sometimes <3

@Darkrai, Whyy...Ok. So , I get that the whole thing was brought up, but since the speculations were supposed to be on Moody shouldn't the proposal be the only mention of it until later? I don't mind seeing the proposal but these threads get hard enough to follow without 8 topics at once QQ. Just saying...

I'll throw my comments in later, meta-wise.

I really have a problem wiith the way other people view counter, as opposed to check.

[Cloud]

Don't laugh at me. ;-;

Ame; Can anyone say Blaziken can't learn Dark Pulse? I CAN. I meant that Darkrai would have something to take the Fighting weakness it has sitting there, and Jellicent just popped into my head.

[Neo]

Assuming that Jellicent or Giratina or something to stop it are even on the same team. Anyway, lemme get around to some testing.

[Cloud]

Tenshi made that exact same conclusion, therefore, I was building off of it, Erick.

By the way, Blaziken is OU here and we're referencing, oh yeah, OU so Giratina wouldn't be a possibility. Just sayin'. :x

[Neo]

Well, since Darkrai is ubers at the moment, I was also factoring in an uber counter. xd

[Cloud]

Anyway, guys, I believe there was a post we missed.

BIDOOF UP!

Why:

-Simple (doubles any stat change)

-Amnesia gives a +4 Special Def boost

-Curse gives a +2 Atk and Def, lowers speed by 2 which doesn't matter.

I fully agree with this. With STAB Tackle / any normal move (mainly Frustration or Recover), not even Scraggy stops this monster of a normal type beaver. It absolutely devastates that LC tier. That being said, Moody is an unreliable ability, therefore, if it doesn't raise an offensive stat + speed or a defensive stat, it gets killed in a minimum of two moves.

Now...onto Cincinno. Out of everything in the LU tier, Cincinno dominates them all, barring Registeel and a couple of other stragglers. Cincinno has a base speed that matches that of Azelf and Ambipom, both of which are UU or higher. It also has Skill Link, an ability it shares with Cloyster, that raises the hit ratio of multiple hit moves, such as Bullet Seed and Rock Blast that Cincinno gets all of. It absolutely dominates whatever it battles, especially in the lower tiers. Sure, maybe it balances those tiers out, but it should be moved up for the sake of having some competition in UU, as well as something to balance out UU's 'tanks.'

[Amethyst]

We don't... have an LC tier yet. That's NU. ._.;

[Cloud]

That said, Bidoof sucks.

Oh. Well, I'll leave my argument there.

[A Pink Cheetah]

Sleep Clause does knock off one of Darkrai's main uses' date=' but have you seen its base stats? 125 Speed and 165 Sp. Attack aren't [b']amazing[/b] but they aren't anything to laugh at.

Sorry Cloud, but there are two things wrong with that, one of which, I deleted. Darkrai does NOT base base 165 special attack. That would put it higher than Mewtwo. This is bullshit, as only one thing is stronger than Mewtwo special attacking wise. Deoxys-A. Also, you stated that at base 165, it hits 405 attack. Yeah. If it is base 165, then it would hit 471. You did get the actual stat right, but not the base stat.

Also, someone said that Absol has that Sucker Punch STAB to work with. Yeah, that isn't its only appeal. Did you know that it has a 25% crit chance with said Sucker Punch? Also, you give it Night Slash. Which then has a 50% crit chance. It also has barely average speed, and is a great counter to OU and UU Pokemon like the Slows and Reuniclus. And about the critical hit chance, you might be asking HOW such a thing is even damndably remotely possible. I'll tell you how.

Critical hit ratios are divided up into Stages, much like stats, but work quite differently from normal stat stages.

Stage 1: 6.25% The standard critical hit ratio. Almost every move has it, a lot of people know this.

Stage 2: 12.5% The standard for high crit ratio moves. I.e., Night Slash, Psycho Cut, Stone Edge (Absol gets all of these) Leaf Blade, Razor Wind, etc.

Stage 3: 25% Somewhat difficult to reach, but possible with a certain ability and a certain item.

Stage 4: 33.3% Very difficult to reach, except for those with a very nice ability and a high crit ratio move.

Stage 5: 50% Yeah, this seems damndable scary.

(Link here. http://www.serebii.net/games/criticalhits.shtml )

How can Absol hit 50%? Super Luck and a high critical hit ratio move. You see, Super Luck doesn't increase the critical hit stage by one, it doubles it. Meaning a Stage two attack goes up to a stage 4, and a stage one moves up to a stage 2. Add on Razor Claw, and you add an addition stage to the total. Meaning Night Slash = a 105 power move that crits 50% of the time off of base 130 attack. Did I mention Swords Dance? I might have forgotten Swords Dance. So, what can you expect from a 105 power attack off of 788 attack that crits, literally, half the time? How about "Holy shit, I'm screwed."

[Bullet]

Well, Absol is honestly reeeeally frail. A powerful STAB or a super effective move can take it out no problem. Also, Burn cripples it. Absol's speed is also average at best, so it has to consistently rely on that Sucker Punch when it's in danger of being OHKOed. Either way, if you go for the 50% crit then you lose out on any other item, and it makes Sucker Punch weaker from lack of Life Orb or w.e. Also, your moveset is pretty fucking limited in your options, if you do choose to go Swords Dance, along with Sucker Punch and Night Slash, woah, you only have 1 moveslot left. If you don't go Swords Dance, your chance of sweeping is pretty much nil. If you don't go Night Slash, you're bait for Pokemon that can just status you, if you don't go Sucker Punch you'll get KOed immediately without accomplishing anything. Even with your crits, Fighting types still have a resistance to your dark moves, and Mach Punch isn't exactly reassuring for Absol. Assuming we are talking about which of the lower tiers should be in, and not its performance in OU, even if it's strong it's honestly far from a really dominant force.

[A Pink Cheetah]

Gastrodon. Gastrodon is a Sand team's wet dream. Most Sandstorm Pokemon have a weakness to water and Gastrodon is there to hep remove the weakness entirely. Not only that, but it is bulkier, has a great stockpile set, and excellent recovery with reliable statusing with Scald (Seems like it burns every two turns, doesn't it?) and an excellent typing with only one weakness. Grass. I'm proposing a tier change for it from Neverused up a few tiers.

[Bullet]

Ehhh, Toxic and Grass moves all pretty much cripple Gastrodon, and those aren't exactly uncommon moves. I don't really see its synergy with sand teams as relevant for the argument of raising it from NU; you can't really make a coherent sand team in NU anyways and you can still use Gastrodon in OU Sand teams regardless of whether it's moved.