[OOC] Fate/Empty Vessel [Sign-Ups for Third War and Servants needed]

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I dunno, interesting Berserkers are actually kinda cool. Ones that are sorta augmented by it rather than horribly weakened in anything but raw power. I just like the idea of a Berserker that wants to be one. It's not something I feel Fate plays with enough.

[rustytengo]

Well in Fate the orginal idea behind the berserker class is that's it's a class that normally weak heroic spirit would take in order to be stronger. Most of the servants in the anime and what not are ones forced into it during summoning. So you don't really ever see any of the ones that want to be. then again the only really good berserker I thought of I gave to you to you Hukuna.

Just keep in mind Hukuna that bravery is sealed under mad enhancement. (hercules has bravery but it's sealed do to the mad enhancement)

Now I really want to get Spirit of the West down for this then we could have a battle of concept and ideals hehehe.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Just keep in mind Hukuna that bravery is sealed under mad enhancement. (hercules has bravery but it's sealed do to the mad enhancement)

And? Just cause it's true of Herc doesn't mean it holds true always for all Berserkers. Just because it happened once doesn't mean it will happen every time a Servant has that combo of personal skills. Bravery on Herc is incapable because it. However it's probably makes more sense to put Mental Pollution to more accurately represent that this guy isn't exactly the easiest individual to get along with.

[Shamitako]

Well in Fate the orginal idea behind the berserker class is that's it's a class that normally weak heroic spirit would take in order to be stronger. Most of the servants in the anime and what not are ones forced into it during summoning. So you don't really ever see any of the ones that want to be. then again the only really good berserker I thought of I gave to you to you Hukuna.

Just keep in mind Hukuna that bravery is sealed under mad enhancement. (hercules has bravery but it's sealed do to the mad enhancement)

Now I really want to get Spirit of the West down for this then we could have a battle of concept and ideals hehehe.

Correction: Herc's Mad Enhancement locks Herc's Bravery. There's no hard and fast rules about what Mad Enhancement locks

[rustytengo]

Correction: Herc's Mad Enhancement locks Herc's Bravery. There's no hard and fast rules about what Mad Enhancement locks

Bravery

Bravery (勇猛, Yūmō?, localized as "Fortitude") is the ability to negate mental interference such as pressure, confusion and fascination. Not usable under the effects of Mad Enhancement.

Straight from the wiki on bravery

Any yeah mental pollution probably would make more sense. Since that most people seeking revenge don't usually do it for brave reasons.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Bravery

Bravery (勇猛, Yūmō?, localized as "Fortitude") is the ability to negate mental interference such as pressure, confusion and fascination. Not usable under the effects of Mad Enhancement.

Straight from the wiki on bravery

Any yeah mental pollution probably would make more sense. Since that most people seeking revenge don't usually do it for brave reasons.

The thing is... I like it being Bravery that breaks the rules, cause Revenge basically represents the Anti-hero in some ways. I kinda want it to be ore or a Bravery from not heroic sources and to really feel like he's breaking the mold in that way. It sounds weird, but it paints a picture that I like. That one doesn't have to be 100% a hero to be Brave. I like breaking that, and Fate loves breaking it's rules a lot.

[Shamitako]

A wiki is not a source, it's just a compendium of information, don't cite it as fact. I just triple checked the skills page and none of the sources it lists back up that statement, so it could very easily be inaccurate

[rustytengo]

Yes but it's the only resource that we have for stuff like that. I agree that it could be wrong but it could also be right. The big reason I think they say that is because mad enhancement is basically the opposite of bravery.

It's just bravery and revenge don't really mesh to well. (ugh I hate trying to explain things through typing)

[Shamitako]

The difference is that it's a much simpler answer to say "it depends on the servant" than it is to say "these don't work" when looking at Fate (since literally everything "depends")

And, they actually do. Revenge is known to make people go to any length to achieve it, even overcoming their greatest fears. In fact often they're taking revenge specifically against their greatest fear. And while "overcoming your greatest fear" may not be what the skill Bravery does, it is representative of the same concept

[rustytengo]

okay, no people don't over come their fears when they seek revenge they act upon those fears through usually anger and aggression, if one over comes their need for revenge that is bravery.

Mental Pollution fits better and makes more sense since people who are seeking revenge do it out of obsession and their desire for that revenge which fits mental pollution better then bravery.

hopefully that explains why bravery really doesn't fit the theme of Revenge to me anyways, and keep in mind i never said he couldn't do anything i just said something i remembered and showed where i got it from.(ugg...some times i feel like y'all jump on me if i say anything about anything trust me if you think I'm nitpicking things i could be a lot worst.)

[Chevaleresse]

oh yeah, keep in mind: Canon Servants are allowed, just submit them like a normal one. Though, if you -have- to use one, I recommend not grabbing any of the ones that have cropped up in a lot of works (people like Artoria or Gilgamesh) and/or have extensive roles in the works in which they appear. Unless you take a Berserker and bring them into a different class (say Archer Herakles, though he'd be basically unstoppable), which might work better. Just try to be consistent with canon depictions unless there's a reason. (For example, the two versions of Vlad III; one being the embodiment of Dracula, the other being the actual Romanian hero, or Jack the Ripper with a similar case.)

[rustytengo]

Well technically there's three versions of Vlad in Fate the two you mentioned and one from Fate/Extra whose kind of a mix of the other two(berserker Vlad is a mix of the other two since Extra's Vlad and Lancer Vlad came first)

Good ones to choose for that would be some of the newer ones from Grand Order since most of them don't have any baring on any plot in any continuity.

and just because I'm nice here's some ideas for servants that i just never got around to making...for various reasons.

Shaka Zulu(would work as either lancer or berserker)

Napoleon (rider or archer more likely rider though his NP would most likely relate to artillery)

William Tell(Archer)

Brutus(Assassin)

Rasputin(Caster)

Ivan the Terrible(Lancer i think. could never quite figure the right class for him)

Lewis and Clark(not sure on them at all really).

[Bfroger6]

Yo, why did my Caster go unnoticed?

[Chevaleresse]

I was referring to both Lancer versions of Vlad, though my phrasing might have made that unclear. Berserker and Apocrypha Vlad are the the same thing; the former is just the latter with Legend of Dracula forced on by the Berserker container.

[Shamitako]

okay, no people don't over come their fears when they seek revenge they act upon those fears through usually anger and aggression, if one over comes their need for revenge that is bravery.

Mental Pollution fits better and makes more sense since people who are seeking revenge do it out of obsession and their desire for that revenge which fits mental pollution better then bravery.

hopefully that explains why bravery really doesn't fit the theme of Revenge to me anyways, and keep in mind i never said he couldn't do anything i just said something i remembered and showed where i got it from.(ugg...some times i feel like y'all jump on me if i say anything about anything trust me if you think I'm nitpicking things i could be a lot worst.)

If that's how you want to view it, sure. But that takes on a very narrow view of the concept of revenge that assumes it's an evil thing that needs to be overcome. Which is definitely not how Huk was designing his character when he made it Chaotic Neutral. And really, at this point this is all conjecture and opinions. And since it's Hukuna's character and I trust his roleplaying skills I'm going to give his opinion the highest value and let him decide whether or not to keep Bravery

Also, sorry Bfroger, I'll check on that later

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

If that's how you want to view it, sure. But that takes on a very narrow view of the concept of revenge that assumes it's an evil thing that needs to be overcome. Which is definitely not how Huk was designing his character when he made it Chaotic Neutral. And really, at this point this is all conjecture and opinions. And since it's Hukuna's character and I trust his roleplaying skills I'm going to give his opinion the highest value and let him decide whether or not to keep Bravery

Also, sorry Bfroger, I'll check on that later

Basically if I wanted to paint all of human emotion as a vile evil thing Mental Pollution would be in. But what I'm doing here represents more or less, the Anti-Hero or those that find Bravery form what could be considered a selfish source. Revenge, and the emotions of Anger don't need to be considered evil and too often are. They are a part of being human after all. TO me, saying that it's flat out evil is more or less wrong. That is, the very meaning of ideals, the ones that say what is good and desired of people and what you shouldn't do, that people tell you how you should be how you should, how you are a good person. Don't give into your emotion because to them, that's wrong. They are afraid of that, because if people can get mad and stand up for themselves have the drive to do that,... things might not go well for them.I want this character to more or less fly in the face of that. Because Emotion is not inherently evil or not heroic. I want this specifically, because Bravery, isn't just from the sources that Fate has shown. SOmetimes it comes from a more selfish place, but to me... that isn't wrong or evil. It might not be the shining example of a hero, but Heros are just that, a collection of antiquated ideals. They are barely human... as evidenced that it works while his Mad Enhancement is one. Cause perhaps... his Mad Enhancement isn't a forced evil. Perhaps it because it's a manifestation of the want to stand up for one's self to take their life into their own hands and do something. There's a reason their sanity is not lost this time... because Revenge is very sane.

Also, thinking of changing Revenge to female mostly cause all my current characters are male at current.

[Shamitako]

Making Revenge a woman would be perfect for fighting Honor

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Kinda why I thought of doing it, but mostly jsut cause people would once again assume Revenge to be a "Male" emotion or Idea. I'd like to subvert that.

Also, jsut not enough Lady Berserkers out there.

(ugg...some times i feel like y'all jump on me if i say anything about anything trust me if you think I'm nitpicking things i could be a lot worst.)

and huuuuuuuuuush you're fiiiiiiine. Just cause I'm explain why I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm make or jumping on you. I'm just defending what I see in the concept and why I want it that way. I'm trying to explain the story I'm telling or want to tell with this character. Your input is still valuable and I don't want you to not challenge the things you see. If you didn't hold a differing opinion it wouldn't be any fun nor would mine hold as much weight. The reasoning you presented rusty IS the reason I want Bravery to be there. Because more often or not it's seen as wholly evil, Revenge is considered wholly evil... However... it doesn't have to be and some of the greatest people were driven to action by it. They become what they were. The world is really messy, an more grey than black and white. This character is meant to skirt the boundaries of white and black in the sense of morality. They are meant to be looked at and maybe be able to be seen from some perspectives as evil, but... to also be looked up to. It's a matter of perspective. I like characters that aren't just fully goody two shoes mcgee, or Mister "I'mma twirl my mustache some more" McEvilDoer. I like grey because it's how life is... form different perspectives different things look different. So na, it's cool and I get where you're coming from. But this character is meant to challenge that very thing you said. That is why I'm going with what I want here. No hurt feelings dude, I'm a big boy. Just cause I don't agree and want to take something a different direction doesn't mean I'm mad you brought it up. I actually enjoy the conversation and want to make it so you see maybe where I'm coming from and why they have that Personal skill. I like a lot of what you have to say and enjoy the back and forth. Just cause I bring up soemthing in contrast doesn't mean "Hukuna doesn;t care what you're saying etc..." I'm definitely listening. I'm conversing back to you, I jsut want you to understand where I'm coming from is all. So chill, we're cool dude XD.

[rustytengo]

When you put it like that Hukuna it makes a lot more sense to me she's brave not because she's revenge but because she's going against the usual veiew if things that's fun by me and fits.

It's not you I have any problem with Hukuna we've done this many times before it's when other people jump in and try to tell me things is the problem. I feel like it goes from me trying to discuss something to having to defend myself on multiple fronts.

And revenge as a female works since well it was the goddess of revenge in Greece and Rome.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Na, they are probably just trying to help me out and also get to see what I'm going for if you can't. Trust me, they don't mean to jump on you and make it feel that way even if it does happen. People tend to forget the more numbers that pile on... the scarier it gets and the more it seems like you're ganging up on them even if that's not the goal. It jsut sorta happens. No one's trying to do that to you, but I totally get why it feels that way. SInce it's just like "Ahhh... now's there's tow that don't agree with me. OH LORD NOW THERE"S THREE" like jsut the pile on effect and even if it's not meant to do that it can. No worries dude lol. I totally get where you're coming from.

[rustytengo]

Hmm... I just noticed something that will either open a giant can of worms again of make us all laugh.

If you look at the bit that I took from the wiki on bravery and read the other part of it other then the mad enactment bit it kind of changes how we have been looking at it.

Bravery

Bravery (勇猛, Yūmō?, localized as "Fortitude") is the ability to negate mental interference such as pressure, confusion and fascination. Not usable under the effects of Mad Enhancement

[Chevaleresse]

Character (Player): Cene Chihide (Murdoc)

Gender: Male

Age: Difficult to discern by looking at him, though a guess would place him in his late twenties.

Alignment: Chaotic Good

Appearance: A man of somewhat greater than average height, at least in Japan. Both Western (likely European or American) and Japanese heritage show on his features, though he strongly takes after the former, with brown hair and blue eyes. He has sharp features, with a somewhat narrow chin, and he is well-muscled from constant rigorous training. He possesses a few scars on his body from fights and duels, magical and otherwise, but they are all faded as if inflicted a very long time ago. Clean-shaven, with hair kept somewhat short and in no real style.

Personality: Straightforward, with a trait that many would call "an utter lack of tact." He prefers to move directly to the gist of any matter he is involved in, and dislikes excessive speech or showiness. As a result, he is a man of few words. This could also be considered a flaw of his; he does not often stop to consider alternative approaches to something; in fact he is nearly incapable of doing so. Essentially, in all matters he acts in accordance with his origin. He is very good at operating alone and conversely is terrible at working in a team, though contradictorily he requires partners and opponents to truly hone his skills and use his abilities to their fullest.

History: A description of their personal history, this may be skipped over during your first War, but if you reuse a Master for multiple wars you will need to add a summary of what happened to them during and after the previous war to this section

Skills: He is aware of his origin of "cutting" and this shows in his skills. He is an expert swordsman and his magic mostly revolves around this concept, fortifying his speed and to a much lesser extent strength by "cutting away weakness." He can also "cut" magecraft, including Bounded Fields, provided he is aware of it. Most of his magecraft is performed using a blade dubbed Cyrf - a Mystic Code constructed over generations of his family and eventually shaped by Cene itself into its current form. (The Code is designed to enhance the user's own origin and simultaneously assist in the discovery of such, though Cene is the first one in the family to fully utilize it.) His ultimate technique is essentially a perfect slice; it is a single strike and can be anticipated and dodged, or stopped from activating fully, but is an absolute enforcement of "cutting" upon the world and cannot be blocked.

Servant: Cene does not possess a catalyst of any variety, though his own self might act as one if regarded as a "peerless cutting device."

[Shamitako]

...So after like 20 minutes, I can't think of anything to say about it. Dammit XD I'll edit him into the OP after I sort out the next thingamathing

Were there any servants I had missed or forgot about during my little(read: really long) hiatus? I know Revenge happened, but if anyone happened before that and I hadn't gotten around to them I forgot them >_<

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I think it's just Revenge. But I can remember revenge... cause I made her XD.

[Bfroger6]

I posted Orpheus.

Character (RPer): Orpheus (Bfroger6)

Classes: Caster

Alignment: Neutral Good

Parameters

Strength: E

Endurance: E

Agility: D

Mana: C

Luck: C

Phantasm: D

Class Skills

Item Construction: A (It is not items that Orpheus creates, but songs which bend the reality to her will. But it is those songs that transcend the limits of this set ability, and allow the poet to express themselves in the form of tangible objects.)

Territory Creation: C (Oh, my noble satyr, thy hooves sound the beginning of my end. But I shall not disdain, I refuse to give in, and with this rhyme, I make thy forest mine.)

Personal Skills

Eye for Art: EX (Orpheus's songs are the source of all the world's music. As such, she possesses an extraordinary taste for the auditory arts.)

Arcane Melody: EX (An innate ability of Orpheus's to make the world dance with the songs she plays on her lyre. As such, she needs no mana of her own, as it is her songs that change the shape of the flow of mana in everything. With her songs, she can bend the elements to her favour. It is indeed her songs that make the winds dance, rivers flow, earth crumble and fire shine.)

Poetica Orphica: EX (A poem has the power to encapsulate one's full attention, and allow them to reach what they truly want to reach.)

Noble Phantasms:

Apollo's Moonstring: The Lyre of Gods (D, Anti-Perception)

Orpheus's lyre is her main weapon. It is the source of her magic and the catalyst for the songs she weaves in her heart. The songs it plays have the power to charm all living things, and even matter itself, just by how beautiful the tunes are. It can be utilized in the form of a special attack that breaks the barrier of reality around the target and effectively incapacitates their senses, overcoming them with auditory stimuli. Those with higher magic resistance are able to resist the charm of her lyre, but normal humans and other beings will fall victim to the beautiful melody that seems to have originated from someplace beyond the realms of our understanding.

Ode to the World: The Eggshell of the Cosmos is a Lyre (EX, Anti-World)

The song which has shaped the universe. It is the ultimate concept of creation, a level of conciousness reached only by the gods and those alike. It is the first and final word translated into the voice of Orpheus's lyre, a voice that can create as well as destroy. When utilized, it brings about unimaginable power, but what form it takes depends on the user. In Orpheus's case, as is expected, it takes the form of a song so beautiful, it sways the whole of the universe, and has the power to shift one's will beyond the recognition of one's senses and into a trance-like state of eudaimonia, before crushing down at them like a powerful tidal wave.

It has the potential to tear one's world apart.

"The inescepable death and the unending life, when her lyre strikes the hand of god, all that's been will once again fly."

For Eurydice: Ballad of Light and Darkness (B~EX, Anti-Unit/Self)

Only by one's own blood can the song of their heart and soul truly be written. With her blood, Orpheus can weave the fabric of her masterpiece song, the ballad to her lover, and unlock the truth beyond...

It is one of few of Orpheus's techniques that isn't channeled through her lyre.