[SPOILERS] Star Wars Episode VII Discussion Thread

[Meruem]

Surprised this hasn't been created yet. So what did you guys think? I found it pretty good. It was somewhat similar to the original trilogy, but the nostalgia I felt while watching this was too real ESPECIALLY WHEN CHEWIE AND HAN MADE THEIR APPEARANCE. At first I thought BB8 would be a shitty R2D2 knock-off, but he turned out to be even cooler than either R2D2 or C3PO XD. The scenes where he pulled out that taser sold me for him. Also, the minor comedy relief moments weren't cheeky like the original movies, which was pretty nice.

Now, onto the actual plot.

- FUCK THAT ENDING, WAITING TWO YEARS IS TOO MUCH

- They haven't stated it clearly yet, but Rey has to be a Jedi.

- FUCK KYLO REN

- I like Finn. He's cool.

- FUCK THAT VOLDEMORT KNOCK-OFF GUY

- Rey = Chewbacca's daughter confirmed, 100% flawless theory.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Gore

[Hexagoen]

Because no one responded yet. i accidentally made a topic if this caliber.

IMO the movie was goo! the gci was on point and it gave that star wars galaxy feel. and im pretty sure the sequel (cause c'mon guys you all know they will make a sequel) will tell us more about some of the cast such as kylo ren's master and how the force chick (cause i dont know the name) is gonna be trained in some badsass ninja moves!

[Meruem]

Because no one responded yet. i accidentally made a topic if this caliber.

IMO the movie was goo! the gci was on point and it gave that star wars galaxy feel. and im pretty sure the sequel (cause c'mon guys you all know they will make a sequel) will tell us more about some of the cast such as kylo ren's master and how the force chick (cause i dont know the name) is gonna be trained in some badsass ninja moves!

yeah, episode 8 and 9 are already scheduled to air in 2017 and 2019 respectively.

[Texasblazed]

What's the topic of discussion here?

Thoughts? Predictions?

I thought it was ok. Not a big fan of J.J's humor attempts but overall I enjoyed it.

I must say tho that I can't wait for the next one.

[Maelstrom]

I liked it. Thought it was a bit short though.

It definitely follows along the same plot lines as the original trilogy.

I don't like who they picked for Kylo Ren. He has zero resemblance to Han or Leia. And the amount of acting ability he shows sure as hell doesn't overcome this.

We all knew who was gonna die in this movie. It wasn't a surprise at all. But now I'm really curious as to where they're taking things after this.

[Maelstrom]

I think Kylo Ren as a character has some potential but I don't like who they picked to act the part.

It wasn't a spoiler thing, it was something you saw coming pretty early on as you watched it.

[Texasblazed]

I think Kylo Ren as a character has some potential but I don't like who they picked to act the part.

It wasn't a spoiler thing, it was something you saw coming pretty early on as you watched it.

I agree. He was obviously supposed to be the trilogy's "old Ben" AKA OBK

Lol I can see it now

"Rey, you must go to the degobah system."

"Oh ya and you better not get a scratch on her"

Lol

[Chevaleresse]

I. . . didn't like it all that much. Blatant Space Nazis with no attempts to hide it, not very many nods to the EU, and Kylo Ren stopped being an effective villain like 1/3 of the way through the movie. Plus lots of stuff that's just flatly impossible (random stormtrooper beating trained sith knight in lightsaber duel what) or just a rehash of the old stuff.

[Sutoratosu]

I. . . didn't like it all that much. Blatant Space Nazis with no attempts to hide it, not very many nods to the EU, and Kylo Ren stopped being an effective villain like 1/3 of the way through the movie. Plus lots of stuff that's just flatly impossible (random stormtrooper beating trained sith knight in lightsaber duel what) or just a rehash of the old stuff.

They completely discarded the Extended Universe canon and instead are going to flesh out a new one of their own, Murdoc...

you may proceed to rage a bit, just like I did upon finding this out the first time.

Also...

Finn didn't actually beat Kylo. Now, granted, it is highly unusual how he managed to hold his own as long as he did despite the only prior experience he had being the few brief scenes where he wielded the saber earlier in the film, and he never displayed any real evidence of being force sensitive... But yeah, during the fight between him and Kylo, Finn managed to fend him off for a while but more or less got his ass wrecked in the end and was even in a coma from his wounds at the end of the movie.

[Texasblazed]

They completely discarded the Extended Universe canon and instead are going to flesh out a new one of their own, Murdoc...

you may proceed to rage a bit, just like I did upon finding this out the first time.

Also...

Finn didn't actually beat Kylo. Now, granted, it is highly unusual how he managed to hold his own as long as he did despite the only prior experience he had being the few brief scenes where he wielded the saber earlier in the film, and he never displayed any real evidence of being force sensitive... But yeah, during the fight between him and Kylo, Finn managed to fend him off for a while but more or less got his ass wrecked in the end and was even in a coma from his wounds at the end of the movie.

Well "officially" the extended universe is now non-canon.Thanks Disney

NOT!!

I personally think kylo ren was made to be that way purposely. So that Snoke can "complete his training".

But Ben solos actor was a bad choice.

[Chase]

I'm going to disagree here and say that - aside from the nitpickiness that is forcing Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford to conceive their own "Ben Solo" (which could have happened, as 'Return of the Jedi' was released all the way back in 1983, which would make Ben Solo 33 if he were conceived during that year.) - Adam Driver was a very good actor with regards to Kylo Ren's part.

Even though it's not Han and Leia's biological son in appearance, he does have a similar look to his grandfather, Anakin. The long hair, the clean chin, and the reckless demeanor - to me - seemed perfectly in line with his fixation on Darth Vader as Anakin is something a deity to the youngest confirmed Skywalker.

Looking past that, the temperament that a lot of people complain about -also- falls in this line. Remember when Anakin slaughters a bunch of Sand People because they killed his mother? Or when he Force choked his beloved Padme because he assumed she had brought Obi-Wan to Mustafar in order to kill him? Down the line, Luke even shows flashes of anger. Like Father, Son has a bout of recklessness when Vader taunts him about turning Leia to the Dark Side instead.

Seeing Kylo Ren's anger displayed in the manner that it was is exactly what the rest of the saga is. Mirrored, now THRICE with the birth of the sequel trilogy.

In comparison, this makes Adam's performance on the contrary, rather well done. I can understand if you're salty because Ren kills Han and you needed something to be mad at him for - or if you don't like the fact that Star Wars mirrors itself nearly ALL the time - but do keep in mind, for it being the first movie in the trilogy and us not knowing the direction they want to take Kylo - we can't definitely say this was a poor performance at all. Yet.

---

A lot of people are also pointing out that former-Stormtrooper Finn being able to shortly bow up to the next equivalent of the "apprentice of the Dark Side" was rather bogus as well - but remember what Maz Kenada(?) says back in her cantina to Rey - The Force surrounds EVERYONE.

On top of that, remember the first opponent Finn fights using Melee combat? That stormtrooper is canonically a part of Finn's former division - and in the newly released EU stuff that compliments 'The Force Awakens' - Finn is known to indeed have experienced melee combat training with this division under Captain Phasma. The stormtrooper even goes far enough to call Finn "Traitor" - before Kylo Ren does the same prior to HIS dust-up with Finn. - which supports that Finn wasn't just a hermit on Starkiller Base.

---

Driver is an actor who played a very risky role in this movie. Many, many people are going to criticize him heavily because he killed a character that is nearly 40 years popular in movie history. I hope the rest of the trilogy finds a way to redeem Kylo Ren in some way, either as a fallen villian, or through "actual" redemption and finding his way back to the Light Side of the Force. Or something.

Driver's acting career hinges on it.

[Texasblazed]

You make a very good point.

Hans death was actually nessisary in my eyes so he can be reys version of Kenobi.

To be honest he did do a good job portraying keylo but I just feel it could have been better based on drivers previous roles.

It can be said it could have been a lot worse tho.

[Maelstrom]

No no, I know his character is supposed to be conflicted and all that baggage but he has the facial emotional range of that chick from Twilight. Okay, not as bad, but it's bad. I know because I was watching him specifically throughout the whole movie. His acting is just fine. Until he takes off the mask and then he's just complete weaksauce from there.

Driver just doesn't fit the role at all. I know his character is supposed to be young and prone to emotions but he really does just come off as some angsty teen who kills people instead of turning to cigarettes and shit.

I ain't salty that Han died because poor Ford is getting old. Driver just is... bad. I have no clue what he had done before this, so whatever he has done does not color my view of him now so I have to skeptically wonder if he does that for people familiar with him from before.

I'm sure a lot of hardcore nerds are saltier that we didn't get to see his defection to the darkside as another movie.

---

I read an article wondering about Mace Windu's light saber. It's purple and many fan theories were wondering if that was a sign that he was part dark and light and whatnot. It wasn't the case. Samuel L. motherfucking Jackson just wanted a purple lightsaber so he could stand out and see himself easily in the mass fight scene. It still looks badass.

Which is a tangent from the main reason I'm posting in here again: What it means to bring balance to the force.

The light side is about coldness, reason, restraint, logic. My kind of dudes.

The dark side is about the power of emotions. Anger, hate, sadness... and happiness. Yes, happiness. You think you know what it means to become a Jedi? Think again.

As it stands, the Jedi were at their own extreme of cold logic. The dark side sith were always self-gratuitous, selfish. There has never been a middle path.

I think a true balance of the force is an order that mixes both emotion and reason. Application of force (emotion) as directed by intellect (knowledge) is the key to true balance and ultimate power. Vader never had it. Luke might see glimpses of it now. Fan theories talk about how it would have made sense for him to have gone to the dark side and actually been Kylo Ren. So Luke has experienced both the light and dark side of the force.

After his failure with his nephew, he secluded himself. Perhaps after all this time, he has found this secret, this balance. He probably had to have time to think to himself, 'How and why both sides of the force exist." Vader was seduced by the good the power of the dark side could supposedly do. What could the power of the dark do if directed in 'good' ways instead of 'evil'?

But it will be up to Rey to try to learn it from him. Luke's time will likely be over before the end of the new trilogy. But one way or another, mark my words, a true balance will finally be found at the end of them. This is my prediction.

[Cool Girl]

I really liked episode 7, but I was so bummed to see Han Solo die. That being said, I heard he's making a appearance in episode 8. Oh! Could that mean he might be alive? (That's nearly impossible, considering he got stabbed and died in a exploding planet, but who knows?) What do you guys think?

[mde2001]

I'm not a fan of Kylo Ren at all. I think his actor is really weak tbh.

I really liked E7 though. I thought that the plot was great despite being similar to the originals and the characters were mostly interesting. I wasn't too keen on Finn but I think he'll grow on me.

I think that it is important that the next movie comes up with a slightly more original plot though because it needs to establish that this isn't just the original series or fans will complain (I think).

Either way I'm looking forward to the next one.

P.S. Rey is awesome.

P.P.S. The stupid male elitists who didn't like the fact that the main characters weren't white males should all go live on a little island secluded from the rest of the world without the access to influence people in any way.

[Maelstrom]

P.P.S. The stupid male elitists who didn't like the fact that the main characters weren't white males should all go live on a little island secluded from the rest of the world without the access to influence people in any way.

Those people exist? F those guys.

If he comes up in ep 8, it will be as part of memory sequence, either as part of Luke's or Kylo Ren's memory, or even both.

Han was a smuggler and a womanizer and a rogue but the idea was that he had a heart of gold that cared at the end.

random tangent... how long do wookies live? Chubacca must be hella old too.

[Chase]

Here's a few things I've heard before somewhere

Rey -is- a Skywalker - but one we're already very familiar with.

It's very interesting how Rey reacts with the infamous 'Skywalker Saber' that - assuming Rey is the third generation descendant that many think is certain. In that cutscene Obi-Wan Kenobi's two actors throughout the original and prequel trilogies (the late Alec Guiness and Ewan McGregor respectively.) have voice cameos in a flashback sequence of a hooded figure placing his replaced right hand on R2-D2's dome, along with a presumed encounter with the Knights of Ren and a ship leaving child Rey on Jakku.

It should be know that the hooded-figure could be one of two Skywalkers who have interacted with R2 - the most obvious one being one Generation above Rey's - Luke - as she comes chronologically right after he in the time. However, the Skywalkers have a history with limb loss. This means that the other person that hooded figure could be..

..is Anakin Skywalker - the grandfather of Kylo Ren and Jedi Knight who tragically was overcome by Dark Side, becoming Darth Vader.

Anakin's background is the cause of many a groan in the Star Wars fandom. Lacking a father it is said that Shmi Skywalker (his slave mother from the first two prequel films) conceived Anakin out of the Force. - Yeah, similar to how Mary would conceive Jesus out of the Holy Spirit. This would make Anakin's birth a virgin birth, and one that would go largely into the direction Qui Gon ultimately takes by bringing him into the Jedi Order - Qui Gon believed Anakin would "fulfill the prophecy" of a Jedi bringing the force into balance - an element Mael brought up earlier.

We know that Anakin is a direct ancestor to Ben Solo through Leia - but we also know that despite having kissed Luke in original trilogy, Leia never had sexual intercourse with her brother and that Han doesn't once acknowledge ever having a daughter of his own. This means that unless Luke goes to some remote planet, knocks up some random unknown woman, and the moment at the end of the first sequel trilogy film is to imply a father-daughter re-union - that Rey's connection to the Skywalker Saber isn't really explained through generational passing.

The alternative to traditional generational passing - be it Rey being a Skywalker, or being a Kenobi (which isn't likely due to Rey's appearance in the film and our knowledge that the Resistance's plight against the First Order follows the Galactic Civil War by 30 years, meaning Obi-Wan's been long dead at that point and we would need to fill in a generational gap we have no proof for.) - is something a little bit more outlandish.

Re-incarnation. Ladies, genleman, and other distinguished readers - I present to you the theory that Rey is indeed the second coming of Anakin Skywalker. I.e. Rey and Anakin are the same person.

It perfectly explains why the saber was of any importance to Rey - because it would still leave in-tact that Rey is a Skywalker - but this theory also has the added effect of re-instating the possibility of that prophecy actually being fulfilled. We've seen in two generations of Skywalkers that Anakin nor Luke were suitable previously to accomplish the task, both experiencing a flip-flop of Light to Dark to Light - even if Luke's lapse of light-bearing was only momentary in comparison to the reign of Darth Vader.

In fact, I'd argue that Luke began to shift to the Dark Side when leaving Yoda on Dagobah mid-training (Yoda actually tells Luke of the path!) - which results to Luke going to Bespin, effectively losing his fight against his father, Han being frozen in carbonite > which leads us to Jabba the Hutt's palace on Tatooine, where Luke uses tactics such as extortion and threats (more dark side leaning tendencies!) to reclaim his friends. Mael argued about Happiness and Emotion being Dark side tendencies.

He's absolutely right.

And this is where the still-intact prophecy gets turned on it's head. The original Jedi Order thought the means of "reaching BALANCE" in the Force" involved taking out the Sith. The Order was heavily in power of the Force, with various Jedi at one time all across the galaxy as it's "protectors". The films would like you to think Light and Dark meant "good" and evil" - but they just simply do not. Suddenly - Anakin Skywalker comes along and actually comes "close" to achieving that balance - but acting in part of eradicating that Jedi Order and tipping the scales in favor of the Dark Side. The problem though, is that the Sith didn't stop the pendulum in the middle.

The Original trilogy is the story of a ragtag group of "rebels" - which Lucas again wants us to believe are the "good guys" - but in this part of the timeline, it's very clearly the Dark side has all the clout with regards to the Force. Emperor Palpatine and Anakin Skywalker - or Darth Sideous and Darth Vader - are the two most powerful Force wielders with significant galactic weight. (Yoda may match Palpatine, but he doesn't have any political control or power outside of his abilities.) - and the power gets even more lopsided at the end of A New Hope, when Ben Kenobi sacrifices himself in order for Luke to escape the Death Star.

And now our Sequel Trilogy - with our re-incarnated heroine - who'se birth is very much unknown (meaning she could be born of the Force AGAIN) has the opportunity to fulfill the prophecy in a chaotic setting where the Force is awakening in new people and battle lines are being drawn to steer the direction of a by-now severely beleaguered galaxy.

She doesn't have to fall to the Dark Side like she did before, but she still doesn't have to ascribe to the right wing teachings of the Light Side either. Doing neither while actually ending the outside political conflicts leaves the galaxy in a place it's never been in a -very- long time.

A galaxy that is harmonious and it's light and darkness sharing equal representation A galaxy, that is in balance with the Force. Prophecy Fulfilled - and Qui Gon ends up being right about that strange kid from Tatooine all along.

Closure.

[Maelstrom]

Anakin is an ancestor to a Solo... how, again? Through Leia? Idk the literary canon, which was disavowed before the new movie's means nothing. And an ancestor through his daughter doesn't actually count. Not when she only has ancestors through her mother's side.

Nvm the fact that her family was probably a sham in order to hide her identity from Vader, her father. Anybody labeled as an uncle or other relative is either completely fake or is from Padme's lineage. Where does Leia say Anakin is related to a solo again? Certainly, not in the movie that picks and chooses from the lore what is canon and isn't.

As a light saber, it probably has a lot of interaction with the force. I find it more likely that Rey's ability and sensitivity to the force allowed her to see the images, rather than the the force recognizing her genome. Even the old alien she got it from knew there was something about it. She couldn't use the force, but she could feel it reacting to someone who could. Plain to say, the alien isn't related to Rey and if it was a family thing, she would have had nothing to do with those scenes. Your generational passing isn't a good theory. Obiwan gave Luke his father's lightsaber. he didn't have any visions as a result. I call it plothole bs. take it as you will, I don't think it is a hint to her lineage so much as absolute basic foreshadowing of events to come.

Where is obiwan's reincarnation? Where is yoda's?

It seems clear though that her parents definitely had something to do with the force or at leas the resistance. They knew their end was as near as the hunting empire soldiers. They left their daughter there to try to keep her safe and wait for their return if they ever escaped. They clearly died. Rey represses her memories, and in force viewings, which touch upon herself and her destiny, she is forced to face them again. Those hard memories make her flee to try to forget it all again. Her repression keeps her from truly realizing her ability with the force. Which is why the story, the saber, and her encounter with kylo ren forces it of her.

I think her past has connection with Luke, but I don't believe she is related in any way to him.

Luke has never had any romantic connections that I've heard of. Maybe she's a relative if they pull a flashback where he suddenly has had a relationship to again tempt him to the darkside and perhaps color his interaction with kylo and push him in turn towards the dark side in his place but.... that seems like a terrible, lazy direction to take things.

I'd rather she be like Neville, with her own family having made an impact on their own than she be the over obvious harry potter inheritor plotline.

[Chase]

We know from 'Force Awakens' that Ben Solo - or Kylo Ren - is the son of Han and Leia.

We know from 'Revenge of the Sith' that Anakin Skywalker is the father of twins - Luke, obviously - and also Leia.

I don't know how you read that Anakin was a Solo ancester, when I was implying that the general "generational passing" theory (I.e. Rey is Luke's daughter - or is somehow a Skywalker or a Kenobi due to lineage.) - but the lines go like this.

Anakin and Padme > Luke and Leia.

Leia and Han > Ben.

Luke and ??? > ?

...and on the contrary I was trying to phrase that Ben Solo was a Skywalker descendant - which would have been Leia's true maiden name had the whole Darth Vader thing never happened and Senator Bail Organa of Alderaan didn't have to offer to adopt her, just like Luke's last name was indeed still Skywalker. Sorry for the confusion.

---

If you want to get technical - re-incarnation isn't totally impossible. Qui Gon Jinn, in death, was the first Jedi to master communicating through visions to living Jedi through the Force, and resultingly taught his padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi to conveniently provide Ben Kenobi the ability to talk to Luke during the first Death Star attack. Later on, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and even two versions of Anakin (depending on if you're watching the original take of 'Return of the Jedi' or the re-mastered edition.) appear to Luke through the Force after the Battle of Endor. Those Force visions are indeed a bit supernatural in themselves - but that would be your "re-incarnation" of Obi-Wan and Yoda. Or at least something close. Both of those two Jedi are supposed to be dead.

---

Finally, those visions appeared to Luke - someone who during the first Death Star raid had very little Jedi training. No, it wasn't like Rey's flashback experience at all - but even if you don't attribute the persons of Yoda, Anakin, and Obi-Wan in those appearances to themselves and instead make it simply an illusion to Luke (which it isn't, as Yoda tells Obi-Wan directly in 'Revenge of the Sith' that it's related to Qui Gon mastering a form of communication after his passing.) - it -does- give Luke illusion-like experiences.

---

And, allow to build on that theory. My argument after all is indeed in this case, that Rey is literally Anakin Skywalker. The closest thing to Rey's flashback experience in any of the films? Anakin's flash-FOWARD experiences. In 'Attack of the Clones' Anakin is stuck on Naboo being the Jedi protector of Naboo Senator Padme Amidala (because, convenience.) - and on Naboo, Anakin has a "dream" of his mother, having what appears to be an extremely painful experience. That dream is followed by his mother's excruciating trauma at the hands of Tuskan Raiders on Tatooine, who had stolen her from her newly betrothed husband (the father of Uncle Owen Lars - who would eventually be Luke Skywalker's care-taker.)

This dream is followed by another similar experience in 'Revenge of the Sith' of Padme - also in extreme pain and apparently giving birth. This is followed by her death after birthing Luke and Leia.

Meaning, these are not just visions for both Anakin and Rey (should they be connected) - but they are significant happenings. For Anakin, his dreams were more like warnings, and for Rey, her memories are as such - but both have the same purpose - Awakening. It's those visions of the future that expedite Anakin to do such rash things as kill the entire colony of Tuskan Raiders mercilessly and ultimately change teams - both in efforts that failed in preventing the visions from becoming reality. For Rey, she -was- resisting the past for what it was, and at the moment she accepted it as that - reality - she became empowered.

Just as Anakin did.

That would mean that not only does Rey being Anakin leave the prophecy in potential fulfillment, provide a new twist to the series, explain the strong reaction to the Skywalker Saber from Rey's point of view specifically, provide an identity to the hooded man placing his mechanical hand on R2-D2 (Because if Rey is Anakin, then that would indeed still qualify as a memory - whereas we'd have to assume from some logic gap that Rey has known Luke personally before under the generational passing or complete outsider theories.) - but it also makes all three trilogies come full circle while still paralleling something in the way the Star Wars seems to do all the time.

It's very possible she is the Neville Longbottom of Star Wars - because there's a lot we don't know about her at this point. However, she's gotten more attention than other break-out characters like Poe Dameron and Finn from the new film - so it's a stretch to say the movie really answers all the questions if that's the case. That wouldn't make for a satisfying closure.