Aero Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Nonweather Stall ..::Introduction::.This was desgined for another forum. Hey Guys! Anyway, I really wanted to share this team with you guys, and as you know I love Stall. Stall is arguably the most reliable playstyle in the game, and it is really effective when put in the right hands. I hope you all enjoy this team as much as I do, I've used for awhile now and I think it's save to say I retired it. With the unbanning of Garchomp and Genesect combined, aswell the fact that Thundurus is rising in usage, this team isn't as effective as it was, before it just 6-0'd everything. Despite that, though, this team is still powerful in terms of Stall, and at times I still use it when in a tournament enviroment or something. It is substantially hard to make and perfect a non weather team and still have amazing success with it, but here I guess I can say I accomplished that. Really the only reliable non weather playstyles are Bulky Offense and Stall, others are viable too, but these in particular shine when facing weather teams in general. I obviously chose Stall as the premier playstyle I will use in non weather, and it really does work effectively when created good. The general process of a stall team should be this: The first Pokemon should be a Pokemon that can effectively set up hazards or cripple opposing leads, and the second should be your Spin Blocker or reliable weapon against other Stall Teams. The second Pokemon could also be another part of the defensive backbone of your team, like this one that I'm showcasing here. Also, the second Pokemon could be your main Rapid Spinner, but that's only if you cannot fit it in the other categories. The third, fourth, and fifth pokemon should be the main defensive core to your team, a core of Pokemon that resist eachother's weaknesses perfectly. They should also be able to set up hazards and have reliable recovery. The final Pokemon should be a Pokemon that patches up weaknesses to your team as it is, usually a Rapid Spinner or Scarfed Pokemon to revenge certain threats to Stall like Thundurus. I started this team because I found a particular interest in the Physically Defensive Salamence, and just created it from there. This team doesn't really have any weaknesses except Thundurus (to an extent), Keldeo in the Rain, and mainly, Garchomp. However Garchomp is probably going back into Ubers, which I'll be glad if it did. I usually try and Toxic Keldeo with Quagsire because for some reason no one uses Surf against him. Thundurus is semi walled by Quagsire, but I am considering running a Specially Defensive set to stop it efficiently. As stated before, Garchomp is a major threat to this team, especially mixed ones with Fire Blast over Fire Fang. I really don't know how to solve this weakness without losing a major part to this team, the only thing I can safely think of is possible using Specially Defensive Bronzong over Skarmory, but then I lost the valuable Spikes that is needed more then ever. This team has had great ladder success, peaking #1 with a rating of 1624 on Mysidia, but that was prior to the ladder reset and new server and all that jazz. I went with a 4-0 win record in the Assassin's tourney, on Mysidia, defeating all who crossed my path 6-0. I don't know about you, but that is impressive. Aside from ladder peaks and tourney achievements, this team has been the cause of my continued success in the B/W OU metagame, which has calmed down greatly since it first started. However with Genesect unbanned, the B/W metagame became the old one it was, unstable and inefficient. Stall has weakened since it was introduced, especially with the new (old) threats that are popping up that gradually deteriorate Stall teams. (I also wanted to give credit for a few people on Beta, as they inspired me to use some of these pokemon. Thanks to Gang Green for the link for the sprites. And credit to Flame God's Kagutsuchi - Smogon Community for the amazing format.) --------------- In Depth Look: --------------- Sableye @ Leftovers Ability: Prankster EVs: 252 HP | 120 Def | 136 SDef Calm Nature [+SDef, -Atk] - Will-O-Wisp - Taunt - Recover - Snarl Comments & Suggestions: Aah, Sableye. Sableye is an amazing pokemon for this team, providing priority status moves in a pinch. It shuts down common status leads like Forretress, and really does great against any lead in general, except a select few. Will-O-Wisp is amazing, allowing me to hit pokemon like Excadrill and Landorus for the burn when Quagsire or Skarm is weakened, or if I'm trying to keep them alive for another dangerous threat. It also burns Ferrothorn, which is always a very good thing. Taunt, as stated before, shuts down hazard leads and status leads, also dual screen leads. Recover is self-explanitory, it is there only for recover and to remain alive as long as possible. I prefer Snarl over the regular Foul Play, so I can hit incoming special threats like Thundurus, possibly forcing a switch. In case you didn't know, Snarl always lowers the SpAtt stat when it hits. It's pretty good. Also, it hits Xatu and Espeon hard, possibly prefenting the latter from Calm Minding SpAtt boosts. Some people have considered using Toxic or Confuse Ray somewhere on Sableye, but I think this Sableye set is fine the way it is, it does its job just fine, preventing hazards and walling Reuniclus and Sigilyph. The EVs are designed to make it as bulky as possible, despite how really frail it is. It isn't 2HKOd by Gengar's Shadow Ball if I remember correctly. Sableye's main selling point also is to wall the deadliest threat to stall itself: Reuniclus. Shadow Ball varients are a big problem, though. Infact, I usually save Sableye late game if I see a Reuniclus, or even a Sigilyph, and I won't take any chances like "I'll live if it doesn't crit or parahax" etc. Sableye really does help this team by effectively walling Sigilyph aswell, as Sigilyph can potentially outstall by entire team. However, you must bait Will-O-Wisp first before you come in, as if Sableye gets hit with a burn then it can't wall the required threats to this team as much as I need it too. Snarl also prevents Sigilyph from hitting to hard if it happens to have Air Slash or something. Overall, I love Sableye because without it, this team can't function correctly. Being swept by Reuniclus is not a very good thing, same with Sigilyph. Quagsire (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Unaware EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Stockpile - Recover - Toxic - Scald Comments & Suggestions: All in all, Quagsire received a major boost in Generation 5. With the new ability Unaware, it can successfully wall set up threats like Excadrill with no problem at all. With this, Quaggy here becomes the primary pokemon on almost every stall team, it's just so good at what it does. Stockpile is an interesting move, allowing Quaggy to maximise his bulk to the fullest extent, bar a crit. I'm considering Earthquake over this spot, so I'm not set up bait for Toxicroak, even though I can just go into a stall war with it. Recover is for recovery, keeping Quaggy alive as long as possible, its a great move. Toxic is sometimes there for toxicing Gastrodon or other Quagsire or something, maybe Toxicing Jellicent as a surprise. I'm considering Encore or something over Toxic, it is just a filler. Scald is so I'm not Taunt bait, and those burns to hit Ferrothorn when needed. EVs make it as defensively bulky as possible, taking hits like a boss and dealing damage back. The only sand sweeper that can 2HKO it is Adamant Life Orb Excadrill, but if I see one I usually go to Skarmory and not risk poor Quagsire for possible a burn. Quaggy also walls Terrakion, and to an extent, Thundurus. Thundurus himself is a major threat to this team, I'm even considering using Ice Beam on Starmie to deal with him efficiently. Burning things with Scald is actually pretty fun, if they lack a Heal Beller or Aromatheraper (lmao Aroma The Raper). Even if they do have one, Sableye can just Taunt if I predict correctly. Quagsire himself semi walls Thundurus, but it can be a major problem if it has Grass Knot, however that is really rare considering Thundurus gets way better coverage without it. Quagsire also kinda walls Keldeo, which can otherwise hurt my team if it has Hidden Power Ice, but Hidden Power Electric versions are walled by Salamence and can be phazed. Quagsire can Toxic Keldeo so I can wear it down, which helps greatly. Chansey (F) @ Eviolite Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Stealth Rock - Seismic Toss - Toxic - Softboiled Comments & Suggestions: Same old, same old, Chansey. It's just amazing, taking hits from even Genesect really good (U-turn does nothing). Chansey here is also my main Stealth Rocker, it is unbelievable on how many switches this thing causes. Stealth Rock isn't as prominent as it was on Generation 4, but it still is very reliable on hitting Flying and Levitating Pokemon very well. Without it, Multi-Scale Dragonite can cause alot of damage to this team, especially if it is the Mixed DD set. I love it, it does so many things and walls so many things it just plain amazing. Seismic Toss is my only attacking move, allows me to wear down Thundurus and Tornadus etc. Toxic hits CM Latias very well, preventing poor Chansey from being set up bait for Latias. Softboiled is for reliable recovery, I am considering Wish or something over it, but every member of my team has some sort of recovery, it doesn't matter in my opinion. I've seen plenty of people hate on using max HP on Chansey, but Chansey here needs it to effectively wall Genesect, who is rising in usage alot. It also allows me to actually take a strong physical hit as a last resort, maybe against something I need to Toxic and Skarm/Quag is weakened, but that rarely happens without hax somewhere. Eviolite is the one reason I use Chansey over Blissey, it boosts it's defensive prowess a ton, but as I said, it's just the same old, same old Chansey we all know and love. Chansey is also my main answer to powerful Special Attackers that lack Psyshock, like Volcarona. Without Chansey, I would be swept by Latios, Volcarona, etc.. the list goes on. I have been considering Thunder Wave over Toxic, which I had at first, but then Latias and Rotom-W walled this team to no end. At times I really want Aromatherapy over Stealth Rocks, as unexpected burns and Toxic's are deadly to this team, but Stealth Rock somehow won it out in the end by being the best reliable Entry Hazard since Generation 4. Skarmory(M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Brave Bird - Roost - Whirlwind - Spikes Comments & Suggestions: For three generations, Skarmory has been the primary Physical Wall of almost every team in existence, and with the inroducton of Roost in Generation 4, Skarmory received even more usage. Skarmory forms a great Physical Walling core with Quagsire and Chansey, resisting each other's weaknesses almost perfectly. It also walls the Adamant LO Excadrill that plagues the rest of my team, and sets up Spikes as an entry hazard. Brave Bird is to hit things like Conkeldurr hard, even though Skarm technically doesn't wall Conkeldurr after Conkeldurr sets up a few Bulk Ups. Whirlwind is to phaze pokemon and rack up entry hazard damage like a boss. Roost is for recovery, however leaving me weak to fighting for a turn (if I'm faster),cough Conkeldurr, is a letdown. Some people prefer Drill Peck over Brave Bird, but really Brave Bird functions as a hard hitting attack that can actually KO some threats with relative ease, unlike Drill Peck. It also hits Conkeldurr alot harder, which is something I need unless I want to be swept by it. However sometimes I consider Taunt on Skarmory just because other than Salamence and Sableye, my team can't really wall Ferrothorn that well. Skarmory also walls other Physical threats like Landorus and Terrakion, if Quagsire can't handle it effectively. Impish Nature is required to get the most out of Physical walling, and without it Skarmory would not be able to wall the threats it walls so well. However, I am considering running a Gliscor over Skarmory, but the lack of Spikes is a letdown considering I don't want Stealth Rocks the only hazard on a stall team. Also, Gliscor can semi-wall Ferrothorn with Taunt, maybe Protect to scout for Scarf Genesect, since it is rising in usage. Let me know what you think I should use over Skarmory, if I would replace it. Sturdy is a nifty ability, even though it is rarely used effectively, it makes me be guarenteed to phaze or set up a final layer of Spikes or something when I'm at low HP and when there is nothing Skarm can really wall left on the opponents team. I'm also considering a SpDefensive spread to be able to take Special hits better and surprise opponents, but that's really what Chansey is for, except the surprise part. Salamence (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SAtk Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd) - Wish - Roost - Dragon Tail - Flamethrower Comments & Suggestions: Here it is, the basic of this team, the big kahuna himself in all his power. This Salamence set probably looks very strange to you, but trust me it works like a charm. I have been using a MixMence over it for awhile how, but all in all this set works better in my opinion. Wish is for team recovery if I really needed it in dire situations, which rarely happen, but hey better safe then sorry. Roost may seem redundant with Wish, but it is for Salamence only, works in cases where you know you'll take a deadly hit. Dragon Tail racks up hazards, and makes the opponent very upset at times, lol. Flamethrower is mainly there for Ferrothorn, a clean 2HKO with the SpAtt investments. Leftovers is just the standard item, but really it's the only thing Salamence wants, any other item is just insignificant compared to Leftovers. I have been considering a different EV spread if anyone can think of one, besides the usual Smogon sets that I sometimes use. One key reason why this thing is so effective is because of Intimidate, sometimes I can pivot around Salamence to rack up Intimidate damage on a powerful threat, which is clever. Intimidate also allows me to cripple some Baton Passing, as I said pivoting around with Salamence really helps against Baton Pass if Skarmory is not able to phaze or Espeon is trolling me. The EVs are standard, taking Physical hits good and phazing, hitting Ferro and supporting the team. The SpAtt investments allow me to hit Ferro harder when it's in the rain. The only reason I don't use SpDefensive ParaShuffler Dragonite is because this team needs something to stop Ferrothorn. Salamence also does good with this team in taking hits from Choice Band Victini, who 2HKOs all of my other teammates bar Quagsire. Starmie @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Rapid Spin - Surf - Thunderbolt - Recover Comments & Suggestions: Last but not least, Starmie. Starmie is this team's Rapid Spinner, and hard hitter. However I do sometimes feel that Starmie isn't bulky enough. Rapid Spin is for annoying hazards that Chansey hates. Surf is to hit things really hard, also hitting Heatran very well and safely. Thunderbolt is the main reason I use Starmie over things like Forretress, because it hits Jellicent, the most prominent spin blocker in the game, very hard. It's a 3HKO, but with hazard damage it works fine. Recover is obvious, reliable recovery is reliable. I'm increasingly considering Ice Beam over Thunderbolt or Surf because Thundurus is really a pain to deal with, and having a good revenge killer to it is amazing. However, sometimes there is a fine line between Revenge Killer and a Check to a pokemon, as Starmie still can come in on a predicted Hidden Power Ice or something. I love Starmie because of Natural Cure, it can spin away Toxic Spikes without worrying about being poisoned throughout the game. the EVs are the regular spinning Starmie spread, but at times I am considering running a bulkier spread to spin easier, but then I lost coverage on reliably beating Jellicent. Overall, I love Starmie and it's the perfect Rapid Spinner for this team needs, like all Stall teams need a Rapid Spinner. Keeping Starmie at a good amount of health is vital, so it can reliably check Keldeo without Hidden Power Electric. However Starmie is so weak to Ferrothorn that it can be very hard to do that if you cannot risk trying to predict a Ferrothorn switch. At times I use Modest over Timid so I can 2HKO Jellicent without Stealth Rocks or Spikes. However, I soon found out how ineffective it was, being slower than Thundurus is not a good idea. Sableye (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Prankster EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Will-O-Wisp - Taunt - Recover - Snarl Quagsire (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Unaware EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Stockpile - Recover - Toxic - Scald Chansey (F) @ Eviolite Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Stealth Rock - Seismic Toss - Toxic - Softboiled Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Brave Bird - Roost - Whirlwind - Spikes Salamence (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd) - Wish - Roost - Dragon Tail - Flamethrower Starmie @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Rapid Spin - Surf - Thunderbolt - Recover [spoiler=Threat List] Threats: Excadrill- I have this rock eating ghost thing that spreads fire at abnormal speed. There's also a fat mudfish thing and a metal armored bird. Conkeldurr- My great metal bird takes hits and weakens it, then my fiery dragon kills. Also my gem'd starfish kills it. Hydreigon- I have a fat pink blob that blobs everything it throws at me only with a jiggle. Volcarona- See Hydreigon. Terrakion- Mudfishy water thing walls and metal birdy thing walls. Landorus- See Terrakion Chandelure- Fat pink blob > awesomelookingfieryghostthing Haxorus- Skarmory walls it completely and phazes. Virizion- Interesting Threat, I usualy toxic it with Chansey and wear it down through synergy. Thundurus- A rising threat, but Chansey takes most of its hits, and same with Quagsire. Starmie can revenge weakened ones. Scrafty- Skarmory walls it and can phaze. Reuniclus- Sableye is immune to the standard set, but Shadow Ball varients are deadly. Victini- Salamence takes Banded V-Creats and can phaze. Mixed ones are a pain, though. Mienshao- I usually go to Quagsire to mess with it, then go to Sableye on the Hi Jump Kick for lolz. However, you can just wall it with Skarm. Darmanitan- Salamence is your best bet, and Quagsire can take any hit from it aswell. Keldeo- Iffy threat, I dislike this Pokemon. Usually Toxic it with Quagsire, wear it down from there. Genesect- Chansey takes a U-turn very well, always to go Chansey and don't risk anything. Tornadus- Chansey walls it completely if it lacks Hammer Arm. FlightGem Acrobatics sets are walled by Skarm, but be careful. Latias- Chansey walls it and Toxic's it. Garchomp- Oh lawdy you might aswell quit the game. Uber material, too powerful, blah blah blah. gg. The best option, though, is to burn it with Sableye. Salamence- Skarm walls DD sets that lack Fire Blast, Quagsire walls it in general. Cloyster- Skarm beats it 1v1, Quagsire walls it bar crit. Politoed- Chansey walls it to no end, really easy to play around and quite fun. Free Stealth Rocks. Venusaur- Chansey walled Special Varients, Skarm walls physical varients, but Mixed ones with Growth hurt. Ninetails- See Politoed. Toxicroak- Skarmory walls it and phazes, but it can do alot of damage to Skarm. Quagsire goes into stall war with it. Breloom- Sleep fodder Sableye, and wall it with Salamence + OHKO with Flamethrower. Ditto- Ignore it, it can't copy anything that can harm this team. Scizor- Skarmory walls it completely. No exceptions. Salamence outspeeds and OHKOs with Flamethrower. Ludicolo- Always a special set in rain, Chansey walls it endlessly. Skarm walls Physical sets. Metagross- Skarm is your best bet, Salamence hurts with Flamethrower. Infernape- HP Ice MixApe is a pain, Salamence walls it otherwise. with HP Ice it usually doesn't have Grass Knot or something. Heatran- Chansey walls every set possible. Dragonite- Difficult, but Skarm beats it 1v1. Quagsire aswell. Whimsicott- Actually can be quite a pain, usually bait leech seed on something like Salamence and go to Sableye and Taunt. Jirachi- Quagsire walls ParaFlinch, and Chansey can eventually beat SubCM versions. Rotom-W- Chansey walls it and Toxic's. Gyarados- Quagsire walls DD sets, Skarm walls anything else. Suicune- ehhh can be difficult if it has Ice Beam, otherwise phaze it when it Rests and wear it down with hazards. Kabutops- Go to Skarm, Quagsire hates Rain Boosted Waterfalls. Phaze it, blahblahblah. Tyranitar- Mixed sets are common, Quagsire walls it completely. Heck even Chansey takes Crunch very well. Gliscor- Quagsire walls it, but watch out for the occasional Toxic. Skarm otherwise. .::Conclusion::. This has overall been the most successful Stall team I've ever used in my life, it works amazing but it is difficult to adapt to. I really hope you enjoy this team as much as I do, it really works effectively. I certainly enjoyed using this team for awhile and typing up this RMT for you all to rate. I know there isn't much you can suggest, but really I didn't post it for you all to suggest multiple things, I showcased with RMT because I wanted you all to get an idea of what I am used to playing in this metagame, and get a general overview of some of the most successful teams on Mysidia. Nonetheless, I would be happily open to suggestions, minor nitpicks, really anything you have a question about with this team. And that, my friends, concludes this team. This team is actually one of those teams that has a good check to almost everything, but doing so it is very weak to just sheer instability. (I don't know the right word). One wrong move, misclick, or any other thing can lead to this team's downfall, and I really don't have a way to fix this, tbh I don't think anyone does. If you plan to use this team, try and play effectively, as anyone without common knowledge of the B/W OU metagame cannot shine with this team. EDIT: Threat list worked, thanks Dter ic. I'll update later with more stuff and I'm working on grammar so don't comment about that please. Thanks for reading Edited February 23, 2012 by Aero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Sorry to double post, but posting this big of an RMT seems very buggy, so bear with me. Edited February 23, 2012 by Aero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Emvee Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Was wondering how this got to #1 (since I was top 5 in beta and none of the guys up there used anything team like this), but then read that it was on Mysidia and I was like, oh yeah. Anyways, if you're worried about the fragility of Starmie I recommend switching it to Tentacruel. You can set up Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin as well. It also gets rid of any Toxic Spikes on the field so you don't take poison damage from switching to Starmie. It's also good seeing that you only have 1 Spdef wall out of your 6 Pokemon (which are mostly Defensive built), and Tentacruel can make a great SpDef wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phazer Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 and Tentacruel can make a great SpDef wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Heroic, I had a friend use this team on Beta and she peaked #3 with a rating of 1734, but that was waaay back in November. Just because something isn't popular in the metagame doesn't mean it isn't good. Plus, way back then Swift Swim was unbanned, so using this team was much harder, ty for the suggestion. Edited February 24, 2012 by Aero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noivy Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ohhhh I really hate going up against stall teams >< I really don't see a way any of my teams can get around this, it's that perfect looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 It's a non-weather team, but how does it fare in weather? Hmm, it's a tough one to take on for sure, but a well-rounded sand/rain team might still damage it significantly. And just as an aside, is there even a single stall team being run nowadays without SkarmBliss/SkarmChans? XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anethia Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Whimsicott or Amoongus are major troll's for stalling xD I was expecting one on this. I dun know if I can beat this team :x Edited February 25, 2012 by Shirinui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Whimsicott is not a problem. Switch to Sableye, and Taunt. Switch out to Salamence and force a switch or break the sub. With Amoongus, you have to let it Spore something but it cannot get through Skarmory if it has HP Ice, and it can't get through Salamence if it has HP Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Hmm, just realized something - whimsicott always outspeeds sableye (base 268 speed unboosted, I think), so looks like you'll be on the receiving end of Taunt instead of the grass abomination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 That may be true, but if their Whimsicott actually runs Taunt, Skarm can just phaze and I can rack up damage with hazards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 That may be true, but if their Whimsicott actually runs Taunt, Skarm can just phaze and I can rack up damage with hazards. No one phazes out a whimsicott Unless of course its own Taunt is disabled for whatever reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 ..Skarm doesn't wall Terrakion Not the least bit, SD rolls through Skarm. Quag does well, as does Sableye provided WoW doesn't miss. Ehhh Grass/Knot/HP Ice/Fire move/CC ape, which IMO is the best ape seems pretty deadly(especially if with Fire Blast). If Starmie goes down, well he kinda rapes your team. Idk, just kinda nitpicking about stuff because the team is solid enough that theorymoning doesn't really bring up any counters, it's all about specific situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 @Zen; Fine, you won. But I rarely ever saw Whimsicott on the ladder. In theory is runs through my team, but it's easy to work around. @Tenshi; That's why I figured I'd use a bulkier Starmie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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