The Case For Kanye

[Neo]

I don't know how Kanye is perceived around here, for the most part. I know Simon digs him, but that's it. That being said, I feel this right here is a good watch that can be applied to other artists/people.

Feel free to discuss it or other Kanye related things in this thread. If you've any questions about him, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer them.

[Damage]

I loved his music. Still like a lot of what comes out and GOOD music is an awesome label. Buuuuuuuuut he needs to tone down the ego and maybe people wouldn't watch the video while second guessing a lot of the more solid and positive arguments for him.

[Neo]

I loved his music. Still like a lot of what comes out and GOOD music is an awesome label. Buuuuuuuuut he needs to tone down the ego and maybe people wouldn't watch the video while second guessing a lot of the more solid and positive arguments for him.

Nah, my man. Kanye doesn't need to tone down his arrogance. An ego like his is seen in many legendary artists, and yet the aren't cut down the way he is. Obviously there's a difference between them and Kanye, and it's that Kanye's a black man who acknowledges his greatness, which in turn makes low-key racist white folks mad as hell. He's got every right to be proud of his artistic abilities.

[Sonikku]

Nah, my man. Kanye doesn't need to tone down his arrogance. An ego like his is seen in many legendary artists, and yet the aren't cut down the way he is. Obviously there's a difference between them and Kanye, and it's that Kanye's a black man who acknowledges his greatness, which in turn makes low-key racist white folks mad as hell. He's got every right to be proud of his artistic abilities.

I agree with you so much. A lot of people believe his changes over the years were negative and constantly rag on him for it, but that's just the thing. Music and the ones who create it are always changing. You can either progress with them, or stay in the past. Thank you for the video :]. Also, let's get hype for Swish dropping next month! :]

[mde2001]

I'm really not a big Kanye fan. Mostly because rap music just isn't an interest of mine. I'm sure that people who like rap music enjoy his art I just personally don't enjoy that type of music. Therefore I can't judge him on his music that much as I couldn't make a fair judgement.

I don't enjoy his attitude all that much. I'm fine with him having a bit of an ego as it doesn't really do anyone any harm usually. I wasn't very keen on what he did interrupting Taylor Swift (another artist I don't like all that much) during her acceptance speech. He's certainly entitled to think and even say that he thinks Beyonce had an amazing music video but going onto a stage and interrupting someone else makes it seem like he has a severe lack of judgement. At least he showed he had grown up a little more recently where he didn't go through with interrupting Beck. I'm not still a big fan of him saying in interviews that Beck should give his award away as it still seems unnecessary but he dealt with it a much more appropriate way than going and interrupting someone else's special moment.

While I still don't particularly like him (and really hope he wasn't serious about running for President) I still respect him for going out and producing music that makes a lot of people happy.

[Simon]

Amazing documentary. If people that hate him for no actual reason could see this, I would just hope they will see him in a new light. It's even more amazing that in the song "Hey Mama", which is one of most emotional songs I've ever listened to and one of my favorites from him, a line that he had in the song was "My mama told me go to school, get your doctorate Something to fall back on, you could profit with But still supported me when I did the opposite". And on May 11th, the day after Mother's Day, he received a Honorary Doctorate.

Can't wait for Swish.

[Combat]

For years, "Power" was my all time favorite song my an artist. With that in mind, I figure Kanye can do what ever the heck he wants, since he has the fame and fortune to do whatever at this point so why tell him to stop? I'll be interested to see how Kanye continues to evolve as an artist, as I'm pretty sure that's fairly common these days.

[Neo]

I'm really not a big Kanye fan. Mostly because rap music just isn't an interest of mine. I'm sure that people who like rap music enjoy his art I just personally don't enjoy that type of music. Therefore I can't judge him on his music that much as I couldn't make a fair judgement.

I don't enjoy his attitude all that much. I'm fine with him having a bit of an ego as it doesn't really do anyone any harm usually. I wasn't very keen on what he did interrupting Taylor Swift (another artist I don't like all that much) during her acceptance speech. He's certainly entitled to think and even say that he thinks Beyonce had an amazing music video but going onto a stage and interrupting someone else makes it seem like he has a severe lack of judgement. At least he showed he had grown up a little more recently where he didn't go through with interrupting Beck. I'm not still a big fan of him saying in interviews that Beck should give his award away as it still seems unnecessary but he dealt with it a much more appropriate way than going and interrupting someone else's special moment.

While I still don't particularly like him (and really hope he wasn't serious about running for President) I still respect him for going out and producing music that makes a lot of people happy.

Kanye has a very strong sense of judgement. He's actually given his own awards to artists that he felt deserved them more than he did. Check that out here: http://www.thefader.com/2015/02/09/all-the-times-kanye-west-gave-his-own-awards-to-someone-else

I suppose to him, he believes that if he can recognize when others have him beat, other musicians should be able to as well.

For years, "Power" was my all time favorite song my an artist. With that in mind, I figure Kanye can do what ever the heck he wants, since he has the fame and fortune to do whatever at this point so why tell him to stop? I'll be interested to see how Kanye continues to evolve as an artist, as I'm pretty sure that's fairly common these days.

Without the aforementioned Taylor Swift incident, we never would've had Power. Kanye called My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, an underhanded apology. His way of giving back to the music world after everyone hated for raining on Taytay's parade.

[Damage]

I'm black too. But being black and talented doesn't mean you get to be a jerk. Humility is something that has been shown in the black individuals our community is most proud of. You shouldn't showcase yourself as great. You simply need acknowledge it. If you mean what you say you mean people will get it, at least the ones who matter. In my possibly worthwhile opinion anyway.

[Sonikku]

I'm black too. But being black and talented doesn't mean you get to be a jerk. Humility is something that has been shown in the black individuals our community is most proud of. You shouldn't showcase yourself as great. You simply need acknowledge it. If you mean what you say you mean people will get it, at least the ones who matter. In my possibly worthwhile opinion anyway.

I understand that being a jerk is typically frowned upon, but everyone is entitled to be whatever or whoever they please, regardless of race. And If you don't showcase yourself as great then who will? Great people always knew they were great before others did, because you can't get anywhere without a state of mind. Another thing is, people will always try to find a way to break you down, so you might as well do what makes you happy.

[Neo]

I'm black too. But being black and talented doesn't mean you get to be a jerk. Humility is something that has been shown in the black individuals our community is most proud of. You shouldn't showcase yourself as great. You simply need acknowledge it. If you mean what you say you mean people will get it, at least the ones who matter. In my possibly worthwhile opinion anyway.

Ain't nobody hating Muhammad Ali for knowing he's the greatest. (Though white folks hated on him back in the day for it.) The way Ye is perceived by folks is 110% because of is race. Else everyone would fuckin' hate John Lennon/ The Beatles.

[Chase]

I like this topic because I'm one of those people that thinks Kanye is an extremely talented musician with even a few tracks he's thrown down or worked on being songs I would repeat due to how great they were.

...but I don't think Kanye's race is the reason I dislike him as a person.

The main reason I don't like Kanye is actually the main reason I don't like most of the rap industry. The subject matter. A West defender can definitely point to race when you look at several of his biggest critics using words like "Boy" to describe him - which was the replacement "N-word" after it was deemed politically incorrect to use by persons who are not black.

However, I don't see how acquiring money, having unhealthy amounts of sexual intercourse with multiple women, or being a better rap artist than the next guy is a part of the "struggle" and without context (such as the gracious "underhanded apology" My Dark Twisted Fantasy was described to be.) it comes off as extremely vanilla.

Pair that with Ye's ego - and you have someone who is boasting exceptionally much about doing seemingly the same thing most other rap artists are doing.

This begs the question - is it Kanye's ego that makes him so much more of a hot commodity than other rappers? I would rather like someone because their music is generally solid and they are a talented individual than like someone because they can out-boast the competition.

I personally think Kanye as a musician is indeed a cut above most - and I also don't think he only talks about sex, money, and rap. However, he's not an artist that shies away from the norm either - and it makes the way he portrays himself as a person seem not only extremely confident - but also a nuisance at times.

However, I don't think my judgements are the final word on West. I'm a casual listener. So Neo, if you have some recommendations for me. I'm all ears.

[Exalted]

alright in all honesty i think kanye is a good musician and people just make his ego a big deal i could name several celebrities who are much more horrible then him yeah there have been times where he has stupid moments but haven't we all i honestly at least he has talent to back up the ego so all i have to say people i think you're all great and im gonna let you finish but kanye is by far not the worst rapper around but for me not the best either

[Garnet.]

I liked this video. People don't give him enough credit, honestly. The thing is, about Kanye, even though he's made mistakes and done this bad thing and that bad thing, he apologized for them. More importantly than that, as shown in the picture, he was forgiven. That's the thing I feel like is happening nowadays. "Screaming all my failures and whispering my accomplishments." (I heard that in a Drake song, not sure if he coined it or not though) People won't let it go that Kanye is so big and influential, and worst of all he's brown. (Regardless of whether or not you think institutionalized racism exists in america, it does. It just does.) Kanye is just like any other music artist. Almost every artist has had times where their music wasn't as good as it could have been, or used to be, but they got back on track. Lots of other artists have had giant egos like that too. What Damage said earlier (with respect to his opinion), if Kanye doesn't gas himself up, who will? I think the last thing the media wants is for Kanye West to be big. And he defies that, every day.

Personally, I love Kanye West. He's influential, he's an artist I can look up to, you know? He's a kind of person that makes believe that fate doesn't exist, and that humans have their own input and say over their lives.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I'll be honest, I don't listen to his stuff, however I persoanlly believe that he's someone who stand where he is because he earned the ability to do so. There's a lot of music artists these days that... I'm not so sure they do. There's plenty that can easily be pointed out and easily questioned as to how they got to where they were. But, I don't think you can question this man's dedication and hard work to get where he is. He earned the spot he holds in the music industry for damn sure, he worked to get there.

Do I like his attitude? Well, there's times I think he messes up but we all have those. He does very much stand for the things he believes in even if he does them the wrong way sometimes. ((like the T. Swift Incident.)) but we're human, he's human. Sometimes when we want to be heard or have something be brought into the spotlight we make a bad call and do something rash. But, even though I don't agree with how that particular thing played out, I do not think he was wrong for doing it. He stood for what he believed in that moment. Maybe went about it in a way that wasn't respectful but, I can respect that he was willing to stand up for that which he believed. I don't think many would be willing to do what he did there for obvious reasons, I'm sure even he knew he'd catch a shit load of flak for doing that. But, he still did. While it might not have been the best moment or the most respectful to Taylor, I can still respect him for doing it even if I don't agree how he did it.

It's just easy for the media and people to pick at him, because we started doing it. Ever notice how it's certain popular music groups/musicians we decide to hate on just because it's popular? Whether you like them or not, Nickleback, Bieber etc... we do this constantly sometimes with reason, that they really aren't good etc but mostly the reason is they can be seen and it's more fun to straight up disrespect on put someone everyone can see on blast, because of that reason, people will see it, and know you you're talking about. Because People are in a lot of ways social creatures and as sooooooon as something becomes popular to do we wanna do it. And with artists we see it easy for us to find every little thing wrong with them we can SEE that they've done. However, we don't really know these people, we don't see the whole of their lives. We see who they are on stage and the things they do at big fancy reward shows. ((that I'm not going to go on a tangent about how shoddily put together most of those are and how poorly certain talent gets treated at those, especially since at times we try to compare that which can't be to each other and that, make the arbitrary and contrived, but let's leave that for another day.)) We see him build himself a lot, we saw the incident with T.Swift etc... and the Media decides that's what we should focus on. That's what Society than latches onto and starts to do having the false opinion that because the Media says it and focuses on it that it's popular opinion. Therefore it becomes it.

The Media too often becomes an arm to harass celebraties and only ever want to show the negative and the bad sides of them. Never do we get to see the good things they do, the powerful messages they try to send in their accmplishments and the good they do in this world. And as a result people assume too much about these people for a shoddy broken perspective driven by the negative terrible, and shitty media of this country. Too often does this happen. We lose focus on what actually important, the art people create. The art that shows it's worth in the eyes of people and the good they've done. We easily forget the struggle that they've gone through to get where they are. To stand where they are at. Instead it's more fun to rip on them be negative, because too often does our media protray it as a good thing. That it's good to rip on artists. Because our media never betrays them in positive lights a lot of the time, they change people into a character and tear away the fact that that's in fact a Person you rip on and might not really know anything about.

And that's what pains me really. Too often does "I don't listen to that or I don't like that," become "that piece of music is garbage, it is worthless." That is so untrue, and even further it doesn't matter much the kind of the person who made a piece of art. There's plenty of popular things done by those we don't know, thousands of quotes, paintings etc... done by those that don't have it attributed to their name. So, that just goes to show that the person who creates just because their name is on it doesn't mean that's a reason to hate on it. To Think something is bad because you don't particularly care for the person who created it. It's folly. To say that I don't like this person, therefore the art they made has no merit. Why? That the most opinionated garbage I've ever heard and hear too often. Liking someone or not does not effect their merits the things they've accomplished. Those accomplishments still happened, it is those that you should think on.

He's a good artist, a great one. His attitude and the way she acts withstanding. But even those I do not hate. So what if he shouts his praises from the rooftops? He's earned the ability to do that. He's put in so much work and time to get to where he is. He deserves to do that. Maybe one doesn't agree, but as others have pointed out... who else would? Everyone else out there ignores the things he accomplishes and only brings back the shortcomings and mistakes. That's i all the media has and all it will ever point out. It's all society care about.

That's what disgusts me. That Popularity is more important in this world then the actual merit and accomplishments of an individual. That we let the smallest pettiest reasons be that which invalidates someone's work someone's life. That we can so easily dismiss at the smallest of missteps. It disgusts me that we focus so heavily on the negative instead of the positive things an individual does.

I don't like Rap music, it's just not really for me ((or I've only heard the stuff that's on the bottom end and have a bad impression.)), however that gives me no reason to say that all rap music is bad. It's not. SO what if it doesn't entertain me, or speak to me? It does to others. It does to many others. And for that reason I can still appreciate what it does. I can still appreciate an artist I don't listen to because their work is important to many other people I can respect the accomplishes this man has made, and the things he has done in the music industry and the impacts he's made elsewhere.

I'll be honest, as I've been already, I've not really listened to any of his music, thought it mostly since I don't know where to begin. But even then... I still know that he's earned to be where he is. and that he knows he doesn't need to be validated by anyone to know that he's accomplished so much. That is how you know someone is successful. When they know they don't have to please every single person out there and just do the work they choose to do.

Perhaps I should give his stuff a try though, because it's just a genre of music I've never been into. As a result... I think I might've missed something great and obviously something that's had an impact on many.

[Maelstrom]

My response to the video is that they're stretching to make it seem like a lot of what he does and says is intentional in an artistic way.

Stream of consciousness is right. He says what's on his mind, sure. Doesn't mean it's all some sort of masterful piece of art feces. >>

Certainly his designer clothes look like crap to my eye. The video said military inspired and I was confused because I saw none of that. *shrug*

I'm not familiar with all of his music, but there have a been a few songs that I've liked- and many more I didn't. Just not my style.

I give him a lot of props for this song and the whole video presentation here for a variety of different reasons. What can I say, there's a lot of honesty in here that resonates with me. I know it's part of a full movie but I haven't seen the rest.

But hey, here is the bottom line: I don't like the guy.

They say hate the sin, not the sinner. A sin or a few doesn't necessarily outweigh the rest of a person when it comes to who they are in what they say and what they do. So in equivocal manner, a few gold nuggets as the exception doesn't represent or overwrite the actions and attitude of a douchebag as a whole.

I can appreciate when he does things well once in while. In the same way that I can enjoy some songs and still dislike the artist/band as a whole.

If you want to praise someone for polarizing his audience and causing discourse and shit just for doing the things he does- as the video argues- you might as well validate fucking Donald Trump while you're at it. He does the same damn things. He polarizes his audience, he causes people to talk about him, he causes people to look at and discuss social issues. It's a double-edge sword of reasoning. Anytime ANYONE states an opinion it does that- it divides people into groups that agree and don't agree. /stops mini-rant

Attitude, intent, delivery, apparent values... he's achieved many things, but many of which are things I don't give a rat's ass about. Aside from some relationship moments as a result of some of his music, this topic and post have been the most he's impacted my life.

[Deleted User]

[Neo]

Awww shit. Things when down while I was asleep. Aight, lemme strap on my Kanye militia boots.

I like this topic because I'm one of those people that thinks Kanye is an extremely talented musician with even a few tracks he's thrown down or worked on being songs I would repeat due to how great they were.

Good. This a good place to start.

...but I don't think Kanye's race is the reason I dislike him as a person.

Nah, it's not the reason why, but it definitely plays a part in it, fam. There are some very interesting studies out there on the topic. I'll edit them in later.

The main reason I don't like Kanye is actually the main reason I don't like most of the rap industry. The subject matter. A West defender can definitely point to race when you look at several of his biggest critics using words like "Boy" to describe him - which was the replacement "N-word" after it was deemed politically incorrect to use by persons who are not black.

However, I don't see how acquiring money, having unhealthy amounts of sexual intercourse with multiple women, or being a better rap artist than the next guy is a part of the "struggle" and without context (such as the gracious "underhanded apology" My Dark Twisted Fantasy was described to be.) it comes off as extremely vanilla.

Hip-hop's subject matter is just as varied as any genre out there, fam. You're unable to look past the bits of Braggadocio that have been apart the genre in some form since the beginning. (Don't believe me? Listen to Rappin' Christmas. The first Hip-hop single) Hip-hop was born out of competition. Making a claim for why you should be the best is part of the genre. Let's take some examples from Kanye's discography alone that showcase a variety of subject matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgtZHXEmvFQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmVPDco9n9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Rndo8VOQuA

I could bombard you with much more, but I fell that's a good enough variety on Kanye's part to make the point.

Pair that with Ye's ego - and you have someone who is boasting exceptionally much about doing seemingly the same thing most other rap artists are doing.

This begs the question - is it Kanye's ego that makes him so much more of a hot commodity than other rappers? I would rather like someone because their music is generally solid and they are a talented individual than like someone because they can out-boast the competition.

See, this just seems to be a misunderstanding of the genre as a whole. I encourage you to check out Common's Be, The Root's How I Got Over, and Kanye's 808's and Heartbreak. I feel these albums, while not being the only ones to do so, will help shatter that perception for you.

I personally think Kanye as a musician is indeed a cut above most - and I also don't think he only talks about sex, money, and rap. However, he's not an artist that shies away from the norm either - and it makes the way he portrays himself as a person seem not only extremely confident - but also a nuisance at times.

However, I don't think my judgements are the final word on West. I'm a casual listener. So Neo, if you have some recommendations for me. I'm all ears.

Like I said in an above post, Kanye's got a very very strong compass that points him a certain way. As for Ye's music, The tracks I posted up there should make you want to check out a little more, in which case, do check out Late Registration and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. Bearing in mind that the latter is a concept album, and while it's about Kanye's feelings on fame, he himself is not being portrayed in the lyrics.

I liked this video. People don't give him enough credit, honestly. The thing is, about Kanye, even though he's made mistakes and done this bad thing and that bad thing, he apologized for them. More importantly than that, as shown in the picture, he was forgiven. That's the thing I feel like is happening nowadays. "Screaming all my failures and whispering my accomplishments." (I heard that in a Drake song, not sure if he coined it or not though) People won't let it go that Kanye is so big and influential, and worst of all he's brown. (Regardless of whether or not you think institutionalized racism exists in america, it does. It just does.) Kanye is just like any other music artist. Almost every artist has had times where their music wasn't as good as it could have been, or used to be, but they got back on track. Lots of other artists have had giant egos like that too. What Damage said earlier (with respect to his opinion), if Kanye doesn't gas himself up, who will? I think the last thing the media wants is for Kanye West to be big. And he defies that, every day.

Personally, I love Kanye West. He's influential, he's an artist I can look up to, you know? He's a kind of person that makes believe that fate doesn't exist, and that humans have their own input and say over their lives.

Touching on that last part because it plays into Ye's ego. He worked his ass off to even be considered a rapper. Nobody in the industry took him seriously outside of being a producer. Like Kanye said on Last Call

It's funny how wasn't nobody interested
'Til the night I almost killed myself in Lexus

I'll be honest, as I've been already, I've not really listened to any of his music, thought it mostly since I don't know where to begin. But even then... I still know that he's earned to be where he is. and that he knows he doesn't need to be validated by anyone to know that he's accomplished so much. That is how you know someone is successful. When they know they don't have to please every single person out there and just do the work they choose to do.

Perhaps I should give his stuff a try though, because it's just a genre of music I've never been into. As a result... I think I might've missed something great and obviously something that's had an impact on many.

Quality ass post here, fam. Very articulate, as always.

That being said, check out Kanye's Late Registration. Late Registration is the near perfect execution of what Kanye wanted his debut album to be. If you like that, you're going to love the guy.

My response to the video is that they're stretching to make it seem like a lot of what he does and says is intentional in an artistic way.

That's precisely the thing, though. He literally does. Kanye's the very definition of a perfectionist. (He mixed Stronger 75 times because he didn't like how the kick drum sounded, yesterday he deleted his new song twice because he felt the audio quality was off and even asked those illegally distributing it to use the newer version) It's safe to say that many of the moves he makes art intentionally to further his art form.

Stream of consciousness is right. He says what's on his mind, sure. Doesn't mean it's all some sort of masterful piece of art feces. >>

Certainly his designer clothes look like crap to my eye. The video said military inspired and I was confused because I saw none of that. *shrug*

The strangest thing about Ye, at least to me, is that the things he says in the public eye always seem to reflect his attitude on his latest release. Which, to me, only furthers the art for me. His newest fashion lines are pretty great. Much better than his attempts during the Graduation era.

I give him a lot of props for this song and the whole video presentation here for a variety of different reasons. What can I say, there's a lot of honesty in here that resonates with me. I know it's part of a full movie but I haven't seen the rest.

Runaway's only 35 minutes. You should check it out, fam. Kanye's got the best videography in all of hiphop.

If you want to praise someone for polarizing his audience and causing discourse and shit just for doing the things he does- as the video argues- you might as well validate fucking Donald Trump while you're at it. He does the same damn things. He polarizes his audience, he causes people to talk about him, he causes people to look at and discuss social issues. It's a double-edge sword of reasoning. Anytime ANYONE states an opinion it does that- it divides people into groups that agree and don't agree. /stops mini-rant

Kanye and Trump's respective brands of polarization are entirely different. Kanye shakes up the entire hip-hop game with his music and is respected for it. Trump's a racist piece of shit.

Attitude, intent, delivery, apparent values... he's achieved many things, but many of which are things I don't give a rat's ass about. Aside from some relationship moments as a result of some of his music, this topic and post have been the most he's impacted my life.

Fair enough. Though, maybe some of the shit I end up saying in this thread will help you at least see him in a different light.

This guy's a cock, tbh. I'll elaborate more on this guy in a bit. I've gotta go take care of some shit.

[Chase]

I really appreciate the suggestions, Erick.

I'm not going to say that race doesn't play a part of his general perception - but personally if race were seemingly a factor I think I wouldn't like the likes of Lecrae, KB, Tadashii, Bizzle, or other Christian Rap authors in the same vein - with 'Crae even going so far as to not differentiate the Christian Rap genre from the rest of the rap game and Bizzle being one of the few known CR artists to fall in line with making diss tracks.

I also would safely say I would appreciate the likes of George Watsky, Eminem, and ....Insane Clown Posse more than I would Kanye if this was at the very least consciously a race issue - when in reality I loathe ICP loads more than I do West and like Kanye just as much as I do Eminem and Watsky - as a musician.

You mention that staking claims of being the best has always been a part of the rap industry, and I wouldn't disagree - I do have that general sense from being a mere casual listener - but I'm a more experienced Christian rap listener - and the stark usage of humility in those tracks is more impactful to me than chest thrusting is - on TOP of said egotism being the norm in the industry and thus coming across as "mainstream."

I look forward to the data you'll provide and I'll give those tracks a listen. All and all - I would say that I don't have anything against West and that I just personally disagree with the notion that he absolutely needs to conduct himself in that manner outside of the studio or off the concert stage. Especially if he's already changed the industry as profoundly as you make it seem.

Great musician, not my kind of person. Doesn't make him an inherently bad - it just means I'm entitled to an opinion.

[Deleted User]

This guy's a cock, tbh. I'll elaborate more on this guy in a bit. I've gotta go take care of some shit.

Oh trust me I know. I don't agree with a LOT of what he says in many instances, but it does work as a whole to summarize what I think about Kanye. I honestly don't dislike Kanye enough to write a whole text wall about how I dislike him like others. Now, Future on the other hand? That'd be another story.

[Neo]

I really appreciate the suggestions, Erick.

I'm not going to say that race doesn't play a part of his general perception - but personally if race were seemingly a factor I think I wouldn't like the likes of Lecrae, KB, Tadashii, Bizzle, or other Christian Rap authors in the same vein - with 'Crae even going so far as to not differentiate the Christian Rap genre from the rest of the rap game and Bizzle being one of the few known CR artists to fall in line with making diss tracks.

I also would safely say I would appreciate the likes of George Watsky, Eminem, and ....Insane Clown Posse more than I would Kanye if this was at the very least consciously a race issue - when in reality I loathe ICP loads more than I do West and like Kanye just as much as I do Eminem and Watsky - as a musician.

There are a number of dynamics that play into racism. Most of them subconscious. I ain't bouta sit here and dissect whether or not you are, I'm just layin' down what's known to exist. Preferring white rappers to black ones isn't a choice many openly racist folks make. Trust me on that, fam.

You mention that staking claims of being the best has always been a part of the rap industry, and I wouldn't disagree - I do have that general sense from being a mere casual listener - but I'm a more experienced Christian rap listener - and the stark usage of humility in those tracks is more impactful to me than chest thrusting is - on TOP of said egotism being the norm in the industry and thus coming across as "mainstream."

Trust me when I say that while braggadocio is a tool in every rapper's toolbox, it isn't the main selling point. Not to mention, I'd imagine Christian rap being a lot cornier than a field in Kansas more humble due to the entire point of praise being about acknowledging god and not one's self.

I look forward to the data you'll provide and I'll give those tracks a listen. All and all - I would say that I don't have anything against West and that I just personally disagree with the notion that he absolutely needs to conduct himself in that manner outside of the studio or off the concert stage. Especially if he's already changed the industry as profoundly as you make it seem.

Great musician, not my kind of person. Doesn't make him an inherently bad - it just means I'm entitled to an opinion.

I'll make a point of rolling through with the studies tomorrow. I spent the day with my s/o today, and that's why I cut my initial post short.

And definitely give his tracks a listen, it's going to bring an entirely different person to light. One that's become disenchanted with the fame and yearns for simpler days.

https://soundcloud.com/kanyewest/real-friends-no-more-parties-in-la-snipped

Oh trust me I know. I don't agree with a LOT of what he says in many instances, but it does work as a whole to summarize what I think about Kanye. I honestly don't dislike Kanye enough to write a whole text wall about how I dislike him like others. Now, Future on the other hand? That'd be another story.

Now that I actually finished that video, I sincerely hope you don't have that much hate and vitriol in your heart, fam. That guy is incredibly off base (Not to mention he has shit taste. Calling MBDTF bad). You really should speak about why you do feel the why you feel about him in this thread. I'll do my best to shed some light on the man that is Ye.

(Don't shit talk Future, man. He's fucking great. AND he's got some real demons that he not only acknowledges but is actively trying to deal with)

With all that said, keep the Kanye-based discussion coming. I've spent years following and reading about the guy. If I can offer any form of insight, I'd be glad to do so.

[Shamitako]

There are a number of dynamics that play into racism. Most of them subconscious. I ain't bouta sit here and dissect whether or not you are, I'm just layin' down what's known to exist. Preferring white rappers to black ones isn't a choice many openly racist folks make. Trust me on that, fam.

So I'd like to point out that subconcious discrimination is a natural instinct that's simply going to happen and it's silly to try to find fault in it. People will be partial towards what they are most familiar with. Conscious racism is the thing that is an actual issue and imo should be the only thing that the word racism refers to with the negative connotations that the word carries. Telling people they're racist for possessing a natural human bias towards the similar tends to just make things worse

Then again, I'm apparently racist for not comprehending how people can find fault in others for their body's melanin levels

As for my opinion on the topic itself, this is the first I've encountered Kanye at all outside his name. There's a very minimal chance I like any of his music though, hip hop is generally pretty bleh for me. And from what I've read here he's not the sort of person I'd like either

Having said that, I don't at all see why he wouldn't be considered an artist. Everything I know about him indicates that he is the very embodiment of the artist. Arrogant, narcissistic, opinionated, contrary, and talented. He's exactly like any other great artist, in every way except skin color

[Neo]

So I'd like to point out that subconcious discrimination is a natural instinct that's simply going to happen and it's silly to try to find fault in it. People will be partial towards what they are most familiar with. Conscious racism is the thing that is an actual issue and imo should be the only thing that the word racism refers to with the negative connotations that the word carries. Telling people they're racist for possessing a natural human bias towards the similar tends to just make things worse

Studies show it ain't natural but learned, fam. Be on the lookout for my next discussion thread. AND subconscious racism is a big deal because it shapes the way white people interact with people of color on a conscious level.

As for my opinion on the topic itself, this is the first I've encountered Kanye at all outside his name. There's a very minimal chance I like any of his music though, hip hop is generally pretty bleh for me. And from what I've read here he's not the sort of person I'd like either

Form your opinion by looking into him on your own. Even me discussing Kanye here isn't an entirely good way to form an opinion.

Having said that, I don't at all see why he wouldn't be considered an artist. Everything I know about him indicates that he is the very embodiment of the artist. Arrogant, narcissistic, opinionated, contrary, and talented. He's exactly like any other great artist, in every way except skin color

The fuck did you just say? Go back and read that shit over.

[Chase]

I'll have some crow.

"Blame Game" is actually a very very good track - and the background information for "Through the Wire" makes what would normally be a pretty bleh track actually kinda neat.

Having been a musician personally and having worked with those who aspire to make it big in the music field over the years - it's easier for me than it may be for some to see this a genuine occupation that requires a lot of crafting and revision.

The first Kanye track I remember somewhat liking was 'Stronger' - and the first one that I remember personally listening to multiple times willingly is 'Love Lockdown'. Then MDTF brought us 'Power' and 'All of the Lights' - two of which are still really good tracks even today.

I'll definitely give Late Registration a whirl. This thread has made me actually think about how much I often judge others before giving them a legitimate chance. With someone as talented as Kanye is - I knew that there had to be -something- worth checking out if nothing else, and I felt like this was generally rewarding.

I -can- see 'Ye being a little embattled and over the fame now. Too often, someone like Kanye gives off the impression that he's just all about the spotlight and you don't really see how he views the world around him - and for that I'm going to blame the media world for choosing not to air things like 'Blame Game' as often, as much as I will shoulder some personal book judging before reading.

Thank you for the enlightenment.

[Shamitako]

The fuck did you just say? Go back and read that shit over.

I was attempting to state that the only reason I can think of for him not being considered an artist was a bias against his melanin levels. As outside that, he's exactly like any other artist, at least based on what I've seen here