[(Dis)Interest Check] A Way with Words

[Shamitako]

So, like, I should clarify before I start that while there is an RP in mind for this, I wanted to check how people felt about a specific concept first. What I'm about to talk about is sort of, thematically related to the RP I want to use it for. Although it could be applied to others as well

NEways, I'm sure you know about character sheets. The thingamadoohickies you fill out when you wantr tyo join an RP. They're used quite commonly across Reborn's RP forum and are very useful for helping establish a simple format that all players can easily look through and learn specific information about the characters

Another common format for entering a roleplay is an introductory ppost. I haven't seen any RPs around here using them so I don't expect everyone to understand what they are. In short, you write up a post that introduces your character into the story and make sure to describe all important details about them in it

Well, I recently thought of a third idea (I'd say invented but I doubt I'm the first to come up with this even though I've never seen it before). Descriptive essays. Having prospective roleplayers write essays to describe their characters and the role they intend to play in the story. This format would be focused on describing the character fluidly, much like the introductory post

I've already thought of a lot of pros and cons, but I don't think I'll list them here quite yet (I'm sure most of what I've thought of is pretty obvious anyways). I'd like to hear your opinions untainted by mine, at least at first

[Felicity]

Descriptive essays sounds like homework. I'll write an essay if I'm highly interested in a topic. I'm not about to do so to possibly get into an RP which may very well flop on its face.

[Shamitako]

Descriptive essays sounds like homework. I'll write an essay if I'm highly interested in a topic. I'm not about to do so to possibly get into an RP which may very well flop on its face.

Understandable. I enjoy writing essays for homework, but I know that many people do not. One of my concerns with this idea was that people would relate "essay" to "homework" and it would turn them off from the RP as a whole

Although if someone's unwilling to do something to join an RP because it takes too much effort, I wouldn't want them to join anyways. A lack of effort might cause it to flop on its face, which in turns wastes my effort and the efforts of the other members

[Felicity]

Understandable. I enjoy writing essays for homework, but I know that many people do not. One of my concerns with this idea was that people would relate "essay" to "homework" and it would turn them off from the RP as a whole

Although if someone's unwilling to do something to join an RP because it takes too much effort, I wouldn't want them to join anyways. A lack of effort might cause it to flop on its face, which in turns wastes my effort and the efforts of the other members

I get that a level of effort is expected in an rp as well as anyone. However I think this is a bit of overkill, to put it simply, because you can do the same checks with a simple character sheet. I'm sure you know that after a certain amount of time you can discern which applications took twenty minutes, two hours or even a couple of days based on who the RPer is, one of the advantages of a small community, and the quality of the app.

I will concede that the main advantage of this method would be the capability to simply check writing skill. An app can look beautiful but then as the RP starts all you can get is one liners or maybe a couple of paragraphs restating what the host posted beforehand. On the flipside though that lends a sense of elitism to the RP which could be productive to the rp as a whole by increasing post quality but detrimental to the community as it deters newer RPers who see this quality but haven't got much writing experience themselves. It's one of the issues I thought of when Huk opened Heartless souls and explicitly stated he was looking for a particular level of skill in his players, though I let it be because he is a veteran RPer who was made the head of this place for more reason than being as old as the cyberwalls.

[Shamitako]

I get that a level of effort is expected in an rp as well as anyone. However I think this is a bit of overkill, to put it simply, because you can do the same checks with a simple character sheet. I'm sure you know that after a certain amount of time you can discern which applications took twenty minutes, two hours or even a couple of days based on who the RPer is, one of the advantages of a small community, and the quality of the app.

I will concede that the main advantage of this method would be the capability to simply check writing skill. An app can look beautiful but then as the RP starts all you can get is one liners or maybe a couple of paragraphs restating what the host posted beforehand. On the flipside though that lends a sense of elitism to the RP which could be productive to the rp as a whole by increasing post quality but detrimental to the community as it deters newer RPers who see this quality but haven't got much writing experience themselves. It's one of the issues I thought of when Huk opened Heartless souls and explicitly stated he was looking for a particular level of skill in his players, though I let it be because he is a veteran RPer who was made the head of this place for more reason than being as old as the cyberwalls.

Well, making the applications like this wasn't about "checks." As you said, I can perform the checks I need to without this. Although I confess the RP I currently have in mind would be "elitest" as it were, the intent of this format is not to be exclusionary. There's no reason why I would have to be any more strict with this format than any other. The intent is to make the character construction more fluid and immersive. Instead of just filling out a checklist the writer is asked to describe their character in a format that requires them to express their writing style

"Essay" does not mean ten paragraphs gloriously composed by a master novelist. "Essay" means three to five paragraphs of highschool level writing that gets the writier's ideas across in an understandable manner

[GotWala]

While I personally would prefer the simple format for the sake of expedience, I'm entirely fine with filling out an expose on my character if it means helping the GM understand my role and style. It would definitely be something reserved for those RPs that are meant to have experienced players, which isn't inherently wrong to be honest. After all, there are always other RPs and people who wish to join them, right?

This could be an interesting requirement for character creation, however I wouldn't want it to be mandatory for all material, which I doubt was what you wanted either. Overall, if someone included this as a requirement to their RP, I wouldn't terribly mind! Haha, I might actually do this for GMs of future RPs I take part in, just to make their jobs slightly easier.

[Shamitako]

While I personally would prefer the simple format for the sake of expedience, I'm entirely fine with filling out an expose on my character if it means helping the GM understand my role and style. It would definitely be something reserved for those RPs that are meant to have experienced players, which isn't inherently wrong to be honest. After all, there are always other RPs and people who wish to join them, right?

This could be an interesting requirement for character creation, however I wouldn't want it to be mandatory for all material, which I doubt was what you wanted either. Overall, if someone included this as a requirement to their RP, I wouldn't terribly mind! Haha, I might actually do this for GMs of future RPs I take part in, just to make their jobs slightly easier.

Of course not. Making it universal would be silly

It's just something I want to try because it seems interesting and fits thematically with the RP idea I have

[Felicity]

Also I do wish the first option didn't make me sound like an ass for picking it. I don't particularly like the idea but I don't hate it either. I just wouldn't put in for the RP if this was the requirement.

[Sutoratosu]

Why don't you just post an example of what you mean, rather than just describing it. Because as of right now, I'm still heavily associating the word "Essay" with those days where one of my teachers has assigned a long ass paper and in the back of my mind I'm just silently thinking "Fuck you..." as I glare up at them from the back.

I mean... I can do it. God knows I can fucking do it, with my eyes closed infact. I consistently get As on those bitches when they're assigned- Hell, technically I do it already for characters without even trying- just write down a shit ton of notes on that character and who they are and how they're going to function... which when put together probably amount to more than an essay would anyway.

But the very idea of writing an essay, just the very concept of having to sit down and do it, for the sake of doing it because you were told to do so, has always made me cringe... because in my mind, I've got a thousand better things I'd rather spend my time on than slapping down a few hundred of words on a page just to satisfy some douche paid by the state to sit behind a desk and teach to a test that will be held that coming spring.

I guess what I'm saying here is that I'm kinda with Dobbs at this point. I'm not exactly against it, given the context of the subject matter, but I'm certainly not giving any pats on the back to the idea either. I just don't fucking like Essays, doesn't matter what they're on. It doesn't matter to me how much writing skill I happen to have or how easy it is once I get started, it's a chore, nothing can ever change that for me, and that's because of how thoroughly they've been overused by the schooling system where I live.

I'm sorry if I sound wishy-washy here, but I'm just really conflicted... because you're asking about something I fucking hate doing (Essays) in the context of something I fucking love doing (Roleplays)...

[Tomas Elliot]

In my 12 or so years roaming around forum roleplays, I have come across a bunch of communities that would use this very system you are suggesting, Lexi. And well, let's just say things rarely turned out as well as one would hope on paper.

I mean, the idea here is to get a deeper understanding of a character, while seeing the player's actual skills when it comes to roleplaying. Let's just imagine, for the sake of argument, that a genuinely bad roleplayer comes in. A good kid, mind you, not a griefer/troll: a friendly kid who really likes the roleplay and wants to be in it. However, he is bad at roleplaying: maybe he doesn't get what metagaming means and why it must avoided, maybe his writing abilities are sub-par, maybe English is not his native language, maybe a combination of all these factors. Bottom line is: the "descriptive essay" he makes turns out to be absolutely painful to read.

What will you do? Will you tell the kid to scram? Will you admit him in, exposing him to the inevitable mobbing from the other players, who are guaranteed to refuse interacting with him after seeing such a debacle? Because remember this: this is the internet, statistically speaking a guy who writes a bad essay for the world to see is MUCH more likely to be insulted and ridiculed for it, rather than being offered help. After all, internet communities mainly exist for people to insult and ridicule others. I know Reborn is a sort of safe haven on this regard, but still, I wouldn't bank too much on it.

[Aurorix]

In a way, a character sheet is a more organized than an essay. What you would put in an essay is almost the exact same thing you would put in a character sheet. When people look through a character sheet they don't want to read a 5-8 paragraph paper just to look for a line or two bit of info/context about said character. If you wanted more context about their personality there's a section labeled personality for people to quickly get the info they need. In the essay you'd have to skim through it just to find the info needed. If I want to know the age of a PC I'd rather have a small little section like "Age: 33" to just glance at rather read through it trying to find it in a jungle of words.

Besides I'd probably make a character sheet anyways. It's kinda like the prewriting/planning stages one has to do before creating an essay. For myself I need to jot down things for my characters in order to remember them, maybe off to the side or something. If I basically already have all the info I need for my character organized into sections why would I need to go through the hassle of rewriting everything in an essay format?

TL;DR

A character sheet IMO is more organized and is easier to find specific information about a PC.

Edited February 15, 2016 by EXLink32

[Tomas Elliot]

In a way, a character sheet is a more organized character sheet.

(sorry couldn't resist)

[Shamitako]

Also I do wish the first option didn't make me sound like an ass for picking it. I don't particularly like the idea but I don't hate it either. I just wouldn't put in for the RP if this was the requirement.

I mean, there is an option that says "it's not a bad idea but I personally don't like it"

Why don't you just post an example of what you mean, rather than just describing it. Because as of right now, I'm still heavily associating the word "Essay" with those days where one of my teachers has assigned a long ass paper and in the back of my mind I'm just silently thinking "Fuck you..." as I glare up at them from the back.

I mean... I can do it. God knows I can fucking do it, with my eyes closed infact. I consistently get As on those bitches when they're assigned- Hell, technically I do it already for characters without even trying- just write down a shit ton of notes on that character and who they are and how they're going to function... which when put together probably amount to more than an essay would anyway.

But the very idea of writing an essay, just the very concept of having to sit down and do it, for the sake of doing it because you were told to do so, has always made me cringe... because in my mind, I've got a thousand better things I'd rather spend my time on than slapping down a few hundred of words on a page just to satisfy some douche paid by the state to sit behind a desk and teach to a test that will be held that coming spring.

I guess what I'm saying here is that I'm kinda with Dobbs at this point. I'm not exactly against it, given the context of the subject matter, but I'm certainly not giving any pats on the back to the idea either. I just don't fucking like Essays, doesn't matter what they're on. It doesn't matter to me how much writing skill I happen to have or how easy it is once I get started, it's a chore, nothing can ever change that for me, and that's because of how thoroughly they've been overused by the schooling system where I live.

I'm sorry if I sound wishy-washy here, but I'm just really conflicted... because you're asking about something I fucking hate doing (Essays) in the context of something I fucking love doing (Roleplays)...

"Understandable. I enjoy writing essays for homework, but I know that many people do not. One of my concerns with this idea was that people would relate "essay" to "homework" and it would turn them off from the RP as a whole"

And I don't actually have any examples, sorry. I like essays but they do take time, so I haven't written mine yet >_< I want to make sure this is the format I'll be using before I spend the time to put it together. I don't mind putting in the extra effort, but if I end up using the standard format then it's completely wasted

In my 12 or so years roaming around forum roleplays, I have come across a bunch of communities that would use this very system you are suggesting, Lexi. And well, let's just say things rarely turned out as well as one would hope on paper.

I mean, the idea here is to get a deeper understanding of a character, while seeing the player's actual skills when it comes to roleplaying. Let's just imagine, for the sake of argument, that a genuinely bad roleplayer comes in. A good kid, mind you, not a griefer/troll: a friendly kid who really likes the roleplay and wants to be in it. However, he is bad at roleplaying: maybe he doesn't get what metagaming means and why it must avoided, maybe his writing abilities are sub-par, maybe English is not his native language, maybe a combination of all these factors. Bottom line is: the "descriptive essay" he makes turns out to be absolutely painful to read.

What will you do? Will you tell the kid to scram? Will you admit him in, exposing him to the inevitable mobbing from the other players, who are guaranteed to refuse interacting with him after seeing such a debacle? Because remember this: this is the internet, statistically speaking a guy who writes a bad essay for the world to see is MUCH more likely to be insulted and ridiculed for it, rather than being offered help. After all, internet communities mainly exist for people to insult and ridicule others. I know Reborn is a sort of safe haven on this regard, but still, I wouldn't bank too much on it.

See, all of these issues apply to character sheets as well so I honestly fail to see your point here. I have considered the fact that an essay is a bit harder to write, but if someone is actually as new as you suggest, they would write just as badly with both formats. If I were to use this system in an RP where I was expecting newbies to join up, I would treat a bad essay exactly the same as I would a bad character sheet and try to help them improve it

In a way, a character sheet is a more organized than an essay. What you would put in an essay is almost the exact same thing you would put in a character sheet. When people look through a character sheet they don't want to read a 5-8 paragraph paper just to look for a line or two bit of info/context about said character. If you wanted more context about their personality there's a section labeled personality for people to quickly get the info they need. In the essay you'd have to skim through it just to find the info needed. If I want to know the age of a PC I'd rather have a small little section like "Age: 33" to just glance at rather read through it trying to find it in a jungle of words.

Besides I'd probably make a character sheet anyways. It's kinda like the prewriting/planning stages one has to do before creating an essay. For myself I need to jot down things for my characters in order to remember them, maybe off to the side or something. If I basically already have all the info I need for my character organized into sections why would I need to go through the hassle of rewriting everything in an essay format?

TL;DR

A character sheet IMO is more organized and is easier to find specific information about a PC.

"They're used quite commonly across Reborn's RP forum and are very useful for helping establish a simple format that all players can easily look through and learn specific information about the characters"

Indeed they are, which is probably the biggest upside to them

As for the prewriting bit, I hadn't thought of that. I don't do anything like that when writing essays so it didn't really cross my mind

Honestly though, you come off sounding very entitled here (referring to the hassle bit). Keep in mind that while RPs are for both the player and host's enjoyment, the host is not required to try to please every possible player. Obviously I don't want to turn too many people away with this, thus why I have this thread to gauge how well accepted it would be, but I've already said that if someone isn't willing to put in the effort needed to join an RP I wouldn't really want them there anyways

[Felicity]

I mean, there is an option that says "it's not a bad idea but I personally don't like it"

You wanna check that again because that ain't an option I see

[Shamitako]

You wanna check that again because that ain't an option I see

It's the second one. I was just restating it with different wording

[Felicity]

I don't think it's a neat idea though.

[Shamitako]

I don't think it's a neat idea though.

Well, the choices I gave cover

"Won't join, don't like"

"Won't join, don't dislike"

"Will join, do like"

"Will join, don't like"

I don't really see any need to add a, "Won't join don't like but sorta like" option

[Felicity]

Or you could change them to what you just listed to remove any inflection in the wording that shows bias. Just an idea. Flawed polls aren't good for getting information.