Praise The Sun... and Moon - Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon

[DiLimiter]

Who knows. We may see 70 Pokemon and 20 new megas or something.

They'd better give a mega Magnezone either now or in the eventual gen4 remakes.

I don't know why, but it kind of fucks with my head when I hear "Gen 4 remake." I'm like 'But Gen 4 just came out...uh...oh my god...'.

It's been almost 8 years since Platinum's release. I feel old now.

[Ironbound]

If you count Diamond and Pearl's originals in Japan, it's almost a decade.

And yes. Think of the beauty of seeing the Distortion World again...IN GLORIOUS CEL SHADED 3D!

[Spineblade]

I must wonder Viri, will we see the Distortion World in Sinnoh remakes? Every remake so far has been of the original paired release, which for the most part includes the major story events. That said, I think that a post-game episode will become a tradition for remakes. I have little doubt that Giratina will make some sort of major appearance in the remakes, even if Dialga and Palkia are still the cover legendaries. It makes sense to include the Distortion world in such an episode. I certainly hope it happens.

But, of course, this thread is for Sun and Moon, isn't it?

Edited April 15, 2016 by Spineblade

[Masquerain]

The sound of gen 4 remakes makes me feel hyped

[Ironbound]

True, we went a little of topic there. Let's bring it back to Sun and Moon.

Who will our rival character(s) be and what do you think their type and motivation is?

First, we've had Gary. The original douche, who even succeeded in his ambitions to become Champion, if only temporarily.

Silver was another douche, but his character evolved over time to be more compassionate and mature.

Brendan and May were the first opposite-gender rivals. They're both meh. Wally was great, another evolving character that grew from being meek and sickly to strong and courageous.

Dawn/Lucas are again meh. Barry was hilarious, ditzy and overeager. But he had the greatest character development, going from naive and rash to someone who is more knowledgeable and serious in his ambitions and beliefs.

Cheren and Bianca represented unique ideals: Bianca had to accept that she wasn't cut out for greatness down the same clichéd Pokemon master route, and became a researcher instead. Cheren was bested by the player and realized also the truth of his abilities, becoming a Gym leader eventually.

N was the greatest rival so far, but since he is technically an antagonist/evil team boss and not a rival I will not type out ten paragraphs about him.

Gen6 had a bunch of boring rivals. Coconut head and Snorlax were just fillers, the ditzy small girl annoyed me because there was no development whatsoever, and the opposite character, Serena/Calem, are just clones of Brendan or May with slightly more ambition but nothing that amounted to anything.

So, what will Gen7 bring?

[DiLimiter]

Gen7 has the potential to bring something new to the table if they feel like going back on a more serious tone for the game. There won't really ever be another N (Gen5 was actually fairly dark compared to all the other games), but one can hope that the rival is at least someone...interesting. Perhaps mix things up? Have it be your brother/sister or another family member?

[pyrromanis]

Brother or sister for Rival!
I'd like to see for the 1st time in pokemon that we have a sibling and begin our journey together. Imagine if the brother/sister was older than the protagonist and was annoyed that we eventually start at the same time our journey. He/She will try to stop you all the time and will be angry whenever you do something better than him/her. But throughout the game he/she will show the hidden love and compasion for the protagonist and acknoledges him/her at the end.

Edit:

Have it be your brother/sister or another family member?

Wow, I am not the only one who wants this

Edited April 15, 2016 by pyrromanis

[Masquerain]

If your sibling would be your rival, I'd like them to join the evil side as opposed to actually being the borin ol' salty fella that just wants to be better than you and by the end just accepts that you'll always be better

Edited April 15, 2016 by Masquerain

[Ironbound]

Exactly! Gen5 actually had a much more mature set of themes: Pokemon rights, parental abuse, different goals, people not being able to always achieve their original dream, so on and so forth. Let's hope gen7 gives us something similar.

I'm wishing at this point, but let's suppose this:

Sun and Moon, right? Let's say the evil team is called Team Zodiac? And is based on the stars, and may be doing something to deal with the future? The legends of this game may have abilities to influence the future, not time like Dialga, but rather Fate, destiny, dreams and realities. Much more mature, I suppose, that merely ubergods with powers over physical attributes, and yet not merely mascots with the whole 'truth and ideals' shtick again.

So Zodiac or what-have-you is out to try and use this power to influence human fate, based on their ideals of what is necessary. The leader needn't be some megalomaniac who has a grandiose plan to take over the world, but simply a dangerously determined person who thinks what they are doing is logical and justified, and will not stop or chicken out like Archie and Maxie.

Your rival, then, could be some friend who thinks that Zodiac is having the right idea, and joins them instead. The friendship is put on hold as you face off in a contest of strength of ambition, and eventually things pan out and you stop Zodiac from meddling with destiny.

All theory, of course, but think of Zodiac Admins Orion, Libra, Gemini (a pair of creepy twins) and Taurus, with the leader being Zodiac Boss Ophiuchus? I'm just woolgathering, but what say?

[Ironbound]

Yes. Gen6 was enjoyable for the graphics and for the megas and other gameplay changes. Definitely not for the plot or character cast.

[Masquerain]

Well, Lysandre was also somebody who did what he did because he believed it is logical and justified.. I mean he started out as trying to be a world savior, but saw that you just can't save human beings, thus decided that he somehow has the right to play god and choose who has the right to live on this planet and so on... While that plot is not terrible in essence, it came out of nowhere , was not well-developed and the suits made little sense to complement it... The legendaries and their myths were not used to their full potential and most of all, zygarde was neglected.. They could have done so much more.

But yeah, imagine legends in sunmoon who really control dreams, memories, and all of that. The evil team could have so much potential with that... But I'm still hoping for rivalling evil teams that are both terrible in their logic. The game could become such a chaotic place with evil teams trying to change the future, the past, memories, human fate... Sadly I also believe GF would never do such a thing... The few screenshots and sketches we've seen from the game, my mind just keeps going back to picturing another Hoenn (yes, that's prejudice but I can't help it at this point .__. I WISH they will prove me wrong)

Edited April 15, 2016 by Masquerain

[Ironbound]

Oh well, then there may as well be another evil team that wants to take over the world with the help of legendary Pokemon who have the power to blow things up with lazers and fire, and we must stop them as a group of inane, plotless rivals and dumb NPCs.

The sad thing is that this supposition is actually likelier...

[Masquerain]

Well, if you think about it, not even Pokemon movies ever change... That whole franchise just seems to be reluctant to change and try to move beyond what BW achieved. (Literally every movie out there past the 3rd,4th or 5th one were about big legend(s) rampaging or fighting and the small legend + ash having to stop them, while some weirdos are hunting the small legend) The games are the only thing that I can still get hyped for when it comes to pokemon sadly (and plushies ) I am really curious why they're keeping everything so secret about SM after a month and a half of nothingness. They really better live up to all this hype and teasing they're building up...

[Ironbound]

Let's hope so. And yeah after the Latios and Latias one I don't think any movie really had much of a plot.

That one was seriously dark though, with torture and ultimate death of a main Pokemon.

As for the SM hype, IMO there should not be this much hype with nothing in it. GF didn't really do it to this extent before; why, they literally just threw out Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W at our faces back when BW2 were leaked. This time, we know nothing, not even the region, and they show us whited-out boxart?

Nah, I hope it doesn't deflate into something inane.

[Cepheus]

You know, regarding the evil team(s) - for once in a long time - I wish the evil teams ambitions are NOT bound to the Box-art legendary!

every Evil Team had build their plans around a legendary Pokemon, most of the time the Box-Art Legendary ... EXCEPT Team Rocket in Gold/Silver!

Gen.1 - Team Rocket + Mewtwo = World Domination

Gen.2 - Team Rocket just wants its leader (Giovanni) back! (thats why they experimented with all those radio waves etc.)

Gen.3 - Team Aqua and Magma + Kyogre/Groudon respectively = stupid plan to increase Sea/Land for whatever reason (most likeley World Domination...)

Gen.4 - Team Galactic + Palkia/Dialga/Giratina = World Domination

Gen.5 - Team Plasma + Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem = World Domination (while being hypocrites about the whole 'freedom for pokemon stuff')

Gen.6 - Team Flare + Xerneas/Yveltal = Destruction of humankind for a re-start with a chosen few (Team Flare - Lysandre playing god) - and therefore World Domination...

DAMNIT GAME FREAK IT GETS OLD!

Evil Team + Legendary = World Domination

seriously if you bring that again... ... just give us something deep and emotional like in Gen.2!

Team Rocket was desperate, falling apart - they thought guidance in their former leader, who abandoned them after his defeat by Red!

They didn't need any power of a legendary to accomplish their goals, and the power of a legendary wouldn't have helped either... ... ... well if they had found a way to completely control Mewtwo - who knows, maybe... but... gah!

Just stop with the World Domination plots!

[Ironbound]

Well, technically Archie and Maxie did not want world domination. They wanted more habitats for Pokemon of the sea, and more placed for people to live on. So they're an environmentalist and a philanthropist gone a little crazy in their passion to do what they think is right for pokekind/humankind. They aren't even really villains, just good hearted idiots who realise the error of their miscalculation when the titans they awaken go bonkers, and ultimately they become your friends to help you and then try and correct their mistake.

And for the record, Cyrus did not want world domination... He wanted to erase the world as it was and recreate an entire Universe, one without spirit, with himself as its God. That's way more drastic and megalomaniacal than Plasma and Rocket, who only wanted regional dominion, and is actually crazier even than Lysandre who wanted world destruction but nothing more.

Gen7 would have to up the ante a lot more to get crazier still than Cyrus. While it is a good idea to have villains not do anything with the main boxart legends...what will the boxart legends do then?

[Cepheus]

Well, technically Archie and Maxie did not want world domination. They wanted more habitats for Pokemon of the sea, and more placed for people to live on. So they're an environmentalist and a philanthropist gone a little crazy in their passion to do what they think is right for pokekind/humankind. They aren't even really villains, just good hearted idiots who realise the error of their miscalculation when the titans they awaken go bonkers, and ultimately they become your friends to help you and then try and correct their mistake.

And for the record, Cyrus did not want world domination... He wanted to erase the world as it was and recreate an entire Universe, one without spirit, with himself as its God. That's way more drastic and megalomaniacal than Plasma and Rocket, who only wanted regional dominion, and is actually crazier even than Lysandre who wanted world destruction but nothing more.

Gen7 would have to up the ante a lot more to get crazier still than Cyrus. While it is a good idea to have villains not do anything with the main boxart legends...what will the boxart legends do then?

Ok granted Cyrus didn't want world domination... ha wanted UNIVERSE Domination...

and what will Box Legendaries do?

Ask Ho-oh and Lugia - both are box legendaries and didn't do anything in the main plot... neither did Mewtwo or the legendary birds (who aren't actually box-legendaries)

I liked the Gen.1 and 2 premise that those Pokemon are actually not part of the main plot - you had to search for them, except Crystals Suicune who you run into multiple times in the story - and the beginning of the plot relevant Box-legendaries...

Even Team Rocket with Mewtwo didn't really seeked the power of a Legendary... THEY CREATED ONE for their purpose, which in the end, they couldn't control.

I mean we had to LOOK for them - Legendaries are supposed to be the rarest Pokemon in the world - yet they get shoved in our faces every damn time!

How can they retain their status as rare pokemon when we encounter and CATCH them as PART OF THE STORY!

If you defeated Arcticuno, Zapdos or Moltres in Gen.1 (without saving prior to fighting them) THAT'S IT! THEY ARE GONE!

Now we get these scenarios:

here is a legendary catch it! ... or... defeat it... but we really want you to catch it - so have another try! - and again... - HEY KID YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO CATCH THIS THING TO PROGRESS THE STORY DAMNIT!... ugh finally you threw that pokeball... - CONGRATULATIONS FOR CATCHING THE HARBINGER OF DEATH! YAY *toooooot* *party!!!* - now continue with the story...

[Masquerain]

Well, I personally never liked Kanto or team rocket because even if gen 2's TR was a bit different, it lacked a serious plot in my eyes. They just felt random and out there doing random stuff. The issue with Pokemon games is that if you don't go big, it will also be boring and not bring on any gravity of the situation. Even reborn has a megalomaniac evil team, except Reborn brilliantly entwines goals, methods, characters, factions (cultists) to make a very exciting, grave and deeper plot. That's why I really can't picture anything much different than megalomaniac evil teams... Ultimately, what we mostly look at is the way they execute that familiar plot, the Characters, the methods, and the story bound to all that. I also agree with the box legend comment, if they weren't used by the bad guys, what importance would they have? BW went as far as to pit legend vs legend, that's a good start. They could have also done something with Xerneas and Yveltal but alas, they serve as nothing more than a cocoon 1time appearance..

I would actually want to see games that show us at least a little bit of the "aftermath" of when the bad guys succeed in their plans (Oh hey, I have to mention gen 5 here again...) Bw2 actually showed us the process of freezing the world at least to some degree. It would be far better to once again (but go further) experience the adventure post- evilteam domination for a while before we go through the process of stopping them..

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

What if the rival uses Lunatone if you play Sun and Solrock if you play Moon?

[NickCrash]

I feel I have to defend Kanto Team Rocket here.

First, let's all remember how these games came 20 years ago, so most of the data was about pokemon and their mechanics

Then, I believe the story was there but not so straightforward.

We know (or, it's later revealed to us) that the Mansion in Cinnabar Island is the factory in which Mewtwo was created. Those things that look like pillars resemble glass chambers in the early games, and I don't know why they changed the design after Yellow. You see notes about experiments, Mew data, MewTwo being born (Sep3 don't forget to wish happy birthday), and you see the failed Mew clones in the basement (Dittos. Dittos everywhere).

The first time you see the Rockets in Mt. Moon, they are searching for fossil pokemon. By that time, the Mansion in Cinnabar is already in ruins. Team Rocket and Giovanni were trying to make the perfect pokemon, using the data from Mew, who is now considered to be extinct. They failed to control Mewtwo, and they currently own no pokemon that can handle it. They are blinded by their arrogance, believing they already have the stongest pokemon they can catch, so they turn to what they believe is an easy solution, searching for extinct pokemon that could keep Mewtwo at check.

When you meet them in the mountains, they have not disturbed the other trainers, as their target is not to randomly terrorize. As you move forward, you tend to only meet Rockets, meaning they have shut down the fossil area. After you take a fossil from them, you can see the other used by a grunt a few towns later, a scientist keeps the other. This means they may have visited the lab in Cinnabar and examined their potential. They now know this is not the answer, but now they have a new lead; Ghost pokemon.

Ghosts are supposed to be stronger than Psychics (even if Gen1 mechanics were problematic), and the next time you actually meet the Rockets is in Lavender town, inside the cemetary. They have recently infiltrated Silph and received a machine that allows them to communicate with Ghosts and capture them. While this doesn't appear noble at first, we'll explain the situation later. One would wonder here, how Giovanni learned about this device. The answer goes back to Cinnabar, as one researcher has part in its creation. His name is Fuji. You can find his portrait inside the lab. Our beloved Mr.Fuji, who appears to be distant in regards to the Rockets, was once part of their team. Even his dialogue hints that he quit Team Rocket because the organization became cruel when they realized they were slowly running out of time. That is why you find him surrounded by Rockets at the top of the tower, obviously upset, yet not a prisoner and certainly not afraid.

When you beat the Rockets and get the Silph Scope for yourself, you effectively stop their plans in defeating Mewtwo with Ghost type pokemon. At this point Giovanni is running out of time and methods of stopping Mewtwo. We still don't know how the Scope came into his hands. Naturally, infiltrating and stealing from a company is much harder than receiving something... in return for certain service. When you reach Silph you encounter several researchers that battle you and reveal they have been plants by Team Rocket in the first place. Hence, the Rockets knew the research programmes, even funded them with their profitable Casino business, and were capable of getting their hands on the merchandise as soon as the prototypes came into existence. The fact that Porygon, an artificial pokemon, was also sold in the Casino strengthens Rocket influence in the sole research centers in the Kanto region.

Riding the floors in Silph, the grunts seem to be only interested in you. They have seen you interfere and care about nobody else. You can see a guy with a Lapras and your rival even, in the highest floors, inches away from where the meeting between Giovanni and the Silph president is taking place. Giovanni is trying to strike a deal to get the Masterball, a prototype in Silph, which can catch any pokemon, without fail. Right after you manage to beat him, his tone changes, as he now knows there's little chance he can battle with Mewtwo and win.

He returns to his Gym to recruit strong trainers for his cause. They are not common Gym Trainers as they use multiple pokemon types, including Ground, Poison and Fighting. When you defeat him and take the badge, Giovanni disappears. Even if he claims to be orchestrating the Rocket moves from behind the scenes, we later find out his henchmen have no idea where he is. Giovanni is afraid for his life, as now all his efforts were fruitless and he thought Mewtwo would definitely end this world and the humans that created it. Apparently he's also making amends so that his family members are safe and away from Mewtwo's reach, something hinted by Silver in Gen2.

Team Rocket aimed for World Domination and when their plans failed, they did everything they could in order to prevent it.

Does anyone have any clue when CoroCoro releases its next reveals?

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

@the fossils, you never meet a grunt that uses the other fossil.

[Red_Chaos]

Brother or sister for Rival!

I'd like to see for the 1st time in pokemon that we have a sibling and begin our journey together. Imagine if the brother/sister was older than the protagonist and was annoyed that we eventually start at the same time our journey. He/She will try to stop you all the time and will be angry whenever you do something better than him/her. But throughout the game he/she will show the hidden love and compasion for the protagonist and acknoledges him/her at the end.

Edit:

Wow, I am not the only one who wants this

What your rival was your Twin granted it would have to be the kind that doesn't look like you

I can't wait to see what they'll name the evil organization in this game....Team _______.

Twilight

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

Petition for the "Technology is amazing!" guy to be the Steel-type leader.

[Ironbound]

I wonder what kind of Pseudo Legendary mons we will have!

STEEL ONES! Give another Steel/Dragon!

[pyrromanis]

I wonder what kind of Pseudo Legendary mons we will have!

STEEL ONES! Give another Steel/Dragon!

I bet we'll get a fairy pseudo legendary this generation!