Praise The Sun... and Moon - Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon

[SnowFire]

For water/bug, what about a kind of dragonfly with fins instead of wings?

Edited April 28, 2016 by SnowFire

[pyrromanis]

Do you know which Water starter should have been part fighting? Samurot! You know, that awesome looking samurai pokemon that everyone seems to forget? That one!

Also I have to say that we most likely never get a Ghost type starter. Almost all Ghosts (I'd say all but not sure) have very creepy dex entries and they seem to be kind of rare in each region. It would look very akward to have your 1st pokemon something related to death/afterlife as your trusted partner...

[NickCrash]

Chase you misunderstood. I love Chestnaut and Breloom! I'm actually trying to make them work in OU to the best of my capabilities. I just disagree with the idea of another Grass/Fighting starter, especially since Gen6 already gave us one.

While Grass/Flying is more represented, all of the delegates are useless in combat, and the one that isn't, belongs to the group of legendaries, a modified one even. Who in their right mind would ever consider using Jumpluff or Tropius

The hype for an Ox starter does not reside only on the Zodiac pattern, but also includes the possibility of Tiger being used elsewhere. A perfect example would be an almost extinct Snow Leopard that resembles a tiger, or a Legendary for the SUN version. In my opinion, it's much more logical than a ... sun shark.

Bug types don't really make good starters as most pokemon games are biased against them. Remember how in the first towns you go to the people regard Bug Catchers as a lower type of trainers? Further supporting this viewpoint is the target demographic of these games, albeit altered to suit older audiences. Even if Bug/Water seems an excellent typing and GF made a huge mistake removing Water from Masquerrain, they could re-introduce it in Gen7, even if the only logical form now is... a Mosquito.

Water/Fighting appears to be the best route to follow at this point. Yes, it will sink Poliwrath further into the Abyss (or become creative and use a Belly Drum set in rain, after a Memento from Dugtrio), but it is the only starter type that never received the Fighting subtype, although chances were presented.

I could even settle for a Water/Psychic as we haven't seen those since.... (has it been that long?) GEN1

[Ironbound]

I agree about Samurott. It deserved to be part Fighting, and get access to Shell Smash and Sacred Sword. It'd be awesome then.

Unfortunately, I guess GF didn't want to dilute Keldeo's spotlight with another sword-based water/fighting type. So poor old Samurott is bad, and it should feel bad.

I'd also say the possibility of a dragon or Fairy starter is remote, since they are rather OP as a type. Then again, GF had no qualms with making blatantly broken Pokemon like Greninja and Blaziken, and MegaCharizard X and MegaSceptile exist. Fairy or Ghost would be interesting, I admit.

[pyrromanis]

Aside the starters speculation, what tms do you think will be added and which one will be removed? I bet that we'll get another fairy tm (maybe a physical one!), a special rock tm and another set up move. Other possible type moves are whatever type gym leaders we get. As for the tms that will be replaced, I can see Rock Tomb be removed since is inferior to Rock Slide/Stone Edge and there is Smack Down for early game. Payback also seems a good option to be replaced since it doesn't have many usages and I'm pretty sure GameFreak will understand the HUGE failure with Confide and keep it only in a few lvl up learnsets like they did with Work Up!

[Ironbound]

I like the idea of a physical Fairy TM. As for a special Tock one, I find it a little harder (pun not intended I swear) to believe, since GF hates giving us any special rock moves. The only ones are Ancient Power (which is justifiably not a TM because it is 'ancient') and Power Gem. I'd like it if Power Gem was made into a TM and given a wider distribution. (WHY DOES DIANCIE NOT GET IT)

Honestly, I'd like to see more Set Up based TMs. We have Calm Mind and Bulk Up as the good two-stat boosting TMs, but only Swords Dance as the +2 attack version. Maybe Nasty Plot could become a TM? Beats Confide, anyways.

Another thing to note is that while we have several moves that boost defenses sharply (Iron Defense, Barrier, Acid Armour and Cotton Guard) we only have one, I think, for Spdef: Amnesia. Unlike Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, which have wide enough distributions to justify being a unique move, Amnesia needs more variants. Even Agility has variants in Rock Polish and Autotomize; as if the Steel types who can get Autotomize cannot also get Rock Polish anyways...

[Masquerain]

There is quiver dance for special att, sp def and speed but yeah, I get your point

P.S. What are all of you's thoughts on the fact that nintendo claims they'll be focusing on a zelda game for E3? Do you think that hints there won't be any pokemon ? Or little to nothing

Edited April 27, 2016 by Masquerain

[The Swordsman]

I agree about Samurott. It deserved to be part Fighting, and get access to Shell Smash and Sacred Sword. It'd be awesome then.

Unfortunately, I guess GF didn't want to dilute Keldeo's spotlight with another sword-based water/fighting type. So poor old Samurott is bad, and it should feel bad.

I'd also say the possibility of a dragon or Fairy starter is remote, since they are rather OP as a type. Then again, GF had no qualms with making blatantly broken Pokemon like Greninja and Blaziken, and MegaCharizard X and MegaSceptile exist. Fairy or Ghost would be interesting, I admit.

No it shouldn't because while GF really should have given the fighting type to it, its hands down the best designed starter to exist so far. Now if only it could learn sacred sword.

[Ironbound]

I had been expressing precisely that same opinion.

And I don't quite agree with the design turn Samurott took. Dewott is awesome, probably the best middle-stage evolution of any starter family, but why it suddenly went from bipedal warrior to quadruped battering-ram-like beast is beyond me. Granted, it can wield Swords, but it should have stayed upright and more...otterlike.

[Cobalt996]

Give Water/Bug pls. No seriously, offensively this type combination is a Water type that kills Grass and a Bug type that kills Rock and Fire. The only pokemon that resist the dual STAB are water types that resist bug. Stuff like Tentacruel, Empoleon, and Gyarados. That's pretty damn good coverage on two STAB moves. Defensively it's also pretty cool, boasting resistances to Fighting, Ground, Steel, Water, and Ice while only weak to Flying, Rock, and Electric. Notably it's a Water type that isn't weak to Grass and a Bug type that isn't weak to Fire.

Additionally, by abilities, Shedinja and Volcanion. With the Water/ Fighting/Ghost/Fairy/Flying/Poison/Steel and Dragon/ Flying/Poison/Ghost/Fairy/Steel (11/324 type combos) naturally resisting both, there are... 32 Pokemon that resist/annul Surskit's STAB combination.

[Masquerain]

I had been expressing precisely that same opinion.

And I don't quite agree with the design turn Samurott took. Dewott is awesome, probably the best middle-stage evolution of any starter family, but why it suddenly went from bipedal warrior to quadruped battering-ram-like beast is beyond me. Granted, it can wield Swords, but it should have stayed upright and more...otterlike.

B-but... Quilava, Charmeleon , Braixen ( I do agree though, Dewott is also among my favorite middle evo starters)

[NickCrash]

I see there's no love for the War Turtle...

[Red_Chaos]

i tend to hate 2nd stage starters but braixen and quilava made me cry once i saw the third stages....

[Ironbound]

You all need to appreciate the Empoleon family. The true Birds of Honour.

Anyways, with regard to the speculated Grass/Flying starter, what do you think it'll be based off? We already have a lizard line in Sceptile, so it'll be a rip-off if they make it one of those Flying Lizard things. Likewise, the Chesnaught line is kinda squirrel-ish? And anyways, Emolga exists. So no flying squirrels either. And we have too many bats.

Which leads me to believe that it might be a bird of some sort, if the trend of keeping starters reptilian/avian/mammalian continues, and if it ever comes to be. The reason we don't usually get a Flying-type Bird as a starter is because the early-route Bird is its own thing. But what do you guys think?

[Spineblade]

Since the only bird starters are Torchic and Piplup, it's been some ten years since we had one. I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that we could get one for Grass, especially considering it would complete the trio (one bird for each type). It is necessary to note that neither of the birds we have so far are actually good at flying (a penguin and a chicken), which is reflected in their lack of Flying type. Given that the starter will be Grass/Flying, it would suggest a bird that can do as such. It's not as obvious to me what kind of bird it could be. Any bird could have that typing if you slap a few flowers on it.

Like you said, Viri, we do have the early route bird in every game so far. Would Game Freak be opposed to letting you get two birds so early? I don't see it mattering a huge amount in the long run.

[Tringus]

Not only that, but having a Grass/Flying bird starter would match Blaziken and Empoleon's typing quite well. Grass/Flying would counter Fire/Fighting, and Fire/Fighting would counter Water/Steel. Empoleon even has Ice Beam, so that takes care of Grass/Flying. There's still that triangle between them, and they would all be birds.

[Masquerain]

I personally don't think we would be getting a starter with a fairy typing.. It seems like it'd be too op (like getting a something/dragon starter) Maybe that's why Charizard and Sceptile are only dragons when they mega evolve. But anyway, if we'd get a grass fairy, I don't imagine it'd be a bird.. I can't imagine WHAT it'd be even.. The grass fairies we currently have are flowery things that resemble a plant more than an animal

In regards to getting a bird grass starter. I think we have to keep in mind the fact that both the fire and water birds we got are birds that can't fly (chickens can somewhat fly but very low and not for long). So if we'd get a grass bird, I think we should be looking at another species of bird that isn't famous for its flying capabilities (i.e would not be part flying type) I think they wouldn't have issues giving 2 birds so early on (they didn't in hoenn or sinnoh) if one of them is not the obligatory flying type

Edited April 29, 2016 by Masquerain

[Chase]

Now here's a thought...

Last generation - we got ourselves a dual triangle where one starter pokemon was double-down better than other.

I.e. Chesnaught Grass/Fighting had the upper hand over Greninja Water/Dark but was completely at the mercy of Delphox Fire/Psychic.

If we're going to talk about the possibility of a Fairy type, we could see the same thing.

Grass/Dragon

Fire/Steel

Water/Fairy

Dragon, Steel, and Fairy is the new-kid-on-the block when it comes to type triangles, and one of the most formidable ones to build teams around. The only issues with it rest on the placement of the dual-typing aspect. If GameFreak wants to go with being doubly sure the advantaged type is superior, -and- have a Fairy type pokemon, they absolutely have to use this triangle...

Now, if they wanted to go with giving the underdog typing a bit of a boost, they could do this one.

Grass/Fighting Fire/Steel Water/Fairy

Fight-Steel-Fairy, or as I like to call it, the "for f*ck's sake" triad, is also a triangle. Here, the disavantage caused by a fire type facing off against the grass starter is counteracted by the grass starter's fighting type besting steel types. The same 'Plan B' type scheme fits the other two starters.

However, Scheme A features less exciting pairs of types - as does Scheme B. Grass/Dragon is still unique, but Sceptile (who is a starter) can claim it when Mega. Fire/Steel is Heatran's domain (although I would like a F/S type that isn't literally a turd with armor plating.) - and, while there are plenty of water types to go around, Azumarill's line loses a lot of appeal with a Water/Fairy type regardless of the triangle being for favorable to David or Goliath. Scheme B in totality even brings Grass/Fighting

which is a typing I guess I'm the only one in the fan club in - but if you guys want your friggen Fairy starters I wouldn't mind taking one for the team!

Edit: logic is flawed - but I think if we're looking at a Fairy starter - THAT's the two type triangles we're looking at, else Fairy might be "OP"

[Ironbound]

So much for speculation. I only guess time will tell, so we just draw a pentagram on the floor, summon Giratina, and have it kidnap Dialga for us again and force a confession out of it.

Leaving the starters aside, we have speculated about the legends, protagonists, villainous teams, professors, and just about everything else.

Let's wonder what kind of champion we'll have this time. I hope it won't be as lame as Diantha. Do you think it'll be a type survivalist, like Lance, who specialized in the Flying (harhar) type?

We might also wonder what the new generation's pseudo-legends will be. Goodra was easily the most underwhelming one, being the first pseudo-legend to be UU even in the generation it was introduced in, I think. In any case, I don't want another Dragon type. Perhaps it could be a Water type?

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

The guy who gives you the strange souvenir in XY says that the Champion in his region is something else. If Sun and Moon has that region, I hope it means something interesting. Maybe the first Champion to go to level 100?

[Chase]

Nope. Type survivalists aren't exactly "old-school" enough to be big deals.

Gen 1 - Blue - Various types

Gen 2 - Lance - "Dragon" type.

Gen 3 - Steven - Preference for Rocks and Steels (Wallace - Water)

Gen 4 - Cynthia - Various types

Gen 5 - Alder - Various types (Iris - Dragon)

Gen 6 - Diantha - Various types.

---

Basically, if there's a type survivalist, it would only be a shocker if it wasn't Dragon, as there have been effectively "three" of those champions who have type preferences and one who preferred a couple of types. That being said, they've been all over the map and I've been wrong before.

[Ironbound]

Maybe the first Champion to go to level 100?

I don't think that GF will ever do that, in all honesty. They mollycoddle the player too much; look at XY. Just look at it. It was ridiculously easy, even if it was aimed at the average ten year old.

Even assuming they actually care about feedback and learn to implement an increased difficulty curve, or even difficulty levels like BW2, (hopefully not unlockable merely at the end of the game though) I doubt they'd ever go all the way to level 100, even post-game during a rematch. Level 88 is the highest they've ever gone, and that's with Red's dumb electric rat on Mt.Silver in HGSS. ORAS only let Steven up to lv.79 on his Metagross.

I just hope it'll be an interesting one. We've had a jerky Rival, a supposed Dragon master who really uses mono-flying, a pebble-collecting Richie Rich, a researcher of Pokémon mythology (Cynthia is easily the best Champion IMO, just because of all the interactions and the level of character involvement--not to mention a decent team), an old guy who loses to a brainwashed kid with a Legendary Dragon, a ditzy girl who plays next to no part in the plot, and some actress who made just one, rather lame appearance prior to battling her at tha E4.

Here's to hoping for another champion who plays a deep role in the game's plot, like Platinum Cynthia or ORAS Steven to an extent. What if the champion is actually a part of the villainous team, like N, but only more so?

Or what if it just turns out to be an unremarkable old chap who likes to collect bottle caps and wear pink clothes.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Viridescent

[NickCrash]

The following triagle works with Fairy not being OP

Fire / Steel

Water / Fighting

Grass / Fairy

What I would like to see is a triangle that will make every single poke-fan burst with joy once they discover it, no matter which one they choose.

Fire / Fairy

Water / Poison

Grass / Dragon

Stepping into the Champion discussion, I have not played any pokemon campaign since RSE, but would do so now, if they convince me it's worth it.

btw if someone can give me instructions how to play gen4,5,6 on pc, please send me a pm with the how-to

A champion is simply the strongest trainer in the region. Such logic is flawed now, especially with the wide array of pokemon we can use. A change in the norm having multiple champions or an actual championship that resembles the usual knock-out tournaments in anime would be appreciated. The E4 cannot be missing, but I'd rather see them stronger and with better teams that do not use pokemon only found in the region, because that makes them incredibly weak compared to what the potential of their types can be. Also, an item Embargo when facing them would be appreciated. It just needs to be active while the battle is running, to resemble more online competitive battles.

That and an old man in pink clothes.

[Ironbound]

I like the idea of something other than Heatran being Fire/Steel for once. That's an excellent typing. So is Water/Poison. (Grass/Dragon is meh really; it's probably gonna have EQ to hit the other two, though). I can already imagine a robotic rocket-jet powered Pokémon and a noxious swamp-snake oozing venom. (And some forest lizard, I guess. Oh wait, we have that one already.) Fire/Fairy is neat too, like some burning seraph or something. Man, you've just given me do many ideas to draw! I'll be sure to remember this when I get back to the drawing board in mid-May.

And yeah, I agree that it'd be a good idea to have an E4 or champion be more competitive. Maybe face them all at a level cap of 50, and they'd use an actual team of six competitive Pokémon.

Or, more realistically, I'd want to see a shift in the E4. Instead of being type based, they could be theme-based. I think I suggested earlier the idea of the E4 being based on the four Weathers, with them using a Hail, Sun, Sand and Rain team, respectively. Naturally, the focus would be on particular types, but not just one. For instance, the sand guy could use Rock, ground and steel types (throw in a Gliscor for anti-Grass and a Cradily for anti-Water and stuff) while the fire guy can use Grass types, and so on. Maybe some of them can use random Mguard Pokémon too under hostile weather to mix things up a bit.

The champion should totally just be a pink-clad Grandpa with the most fabulous all-pink squad, js.

[Cobalt996]

I just hope it'll be an interesting one. We've had a jerky Rival, a supposed Dragon master who really uses mono-flying, a pebble-collecting Richie Rich, a researcher of Pokémon mythology (Cynthia is easily the best Champion IMO, just because of all the interactions and the level of character involvement--not to mention a decent team), an old guy who loses to a brainwashed kid with a Legendary Dragon, a ditzy girl who plays next to no part in the plot, and some actress who made just one, rather lame appearance prior to battling her at tha E4.

Here's to hoping for another champion who plays a deep role in the game's plot, like Platinum Cynthia or ORAS Steven to an extent. What if the champion is actually a part of the villainous team, like N, but only more so?

Except you see Diantha three times prior to E4.

Yeah, a champion who actually does something would be nice, since the title allegedly carries some responsibility outside of being a person to fight. Steven collecting pebbles like his father gave him something he did in his time while roaming, at the least. Cynthia basically said "Hope you like me, because I'M driving the plot forward". Meanwhile, Alder existed, Iris existed less, and Diantha only slightly more.

It'd be nicer if the E4/champion just grew in level as fought more, capping at 95/100 after enough successes. They have to maintain their image of being "elite," and being beat by the same kid every time isn't helping.

EDIT: Mr. O for champion

Edited April 29, 2016 by Cobalt996