[System/Interest Check/Trial/Reroll/Gameplay] A.R.T.S.: A Statistical Approach to Combat.

[Code: PIRULUK]

Hi o/

You probably know me. If you don't, I'm Acqui, and this is possibly the second time I'm embarking on a highly ambitious project for this subforum (the first being Vyker/The Worlds Apart project, which fell apart due to lack of interest.)

Today I'm here to bring you a new idea, known as

A.R.T.S. (Acqui's Relatively Tactical System) // A.L.T.S. (Acqui's Less Tactical System)

This forum, which has a high number of combat-oriented RPs, surprisingly has a lack of stat-based RPs. This is especially odd when you consider that a large number of our players here come from D&D backgrounds. This system, inspired by a number of Fire Emblem RPs over on another forum, seeks to fill this niche by providing an outlet for streamlined, tactical combat.

The Problem:

Combat is something that can cause a lot of grief to a host. When is it time for a player to stop getting lucky and avoiding an attack? When is it appropriate for a boss to finally stop dodging and take a hit? When should a boss take damage, and how much damage should he take before he goes down? The ambiguity when it comes to battles can be the source of many a headache for GMs and players alike.

In addition, in these RPs, it's common for many players to skim over their battles with the mook characters, in favor of reaching the boss fights quickly and accomplishing objectives. This can cause the battle to feel less like a battle and detract from its intensity.

With this system, we replace the subjectivity of battles with pure, hard, stat-based combat to streamline the process and facilitate the management of the RP, so you can focus less on fighting and more on the meat of a collaborative storytelling experience: the character interactions.


The Proposal:

The ARTS/ALTS is a system which attempts to take grid-based tactical combat/tabletop combat and port it over to an RP-by-post format, based heavily on the system used by Shin on the SerenesForest forum (more on this later). By utilising a visual map and stat-based combat, it is possible to more clearly outline and define the tactical objectives of a combat situation.


The Map:

The first, most important thing to know about the ARTS/ALTS system is that it's grid-based and map-based. What does this mean? This means, at the start of each combat encounter, the host will provide a map like the one here. (again, credits to Shin from the Serenes Forest forum)

As you can see, the map is divided into a grid. Each PC and NPC starts at a host-defined grid value, represented by a sprite. It can be a sprite, a dot, or a token. Anything recognisable. Players can make sprites for themselves, or hosts can provide sprites for them. At the start of combat, by checking the relative speeds of the actors and rolling a die for tiebreaking, turn order is decided. From there, on their turn, players will post the grid location they wish to move to (dictated by their MOV stat), and declare if they wish to take any further actions. Once all actors have moved, the host will update the map accordingly in a summary post.

A.R.T.S.
Base System. Powerful, adaptable, complex.

The Stats:

Naturally, a stat-based combat system will require stats. The stats assigned to each character are as follows:

HP - Self-explanatory
STRENGTH - used to calculate damage for physical heavy weapons, i.e. Swords/Axes/Hammers/Spears
*MAGIC/SPECIAL - used to calculate damage for magic attacks
DEXTERITY - used to calculate damage for precision weapons, e.g. Daggers/Bows/Projectiles
SPEED - used to calculate hit and crit
INTELLIGENCE - used to calculate damage for tactical weapons, usually used in conjunction with another stat. E.g., Puppets (Intelligence + Magic), Steel Threads (Intelligence + Dexterity).
CHARISMA - Used to calculate efficacy of support actions/weapons, e.g. Instruments, dances, speeches.
DEFENCE - Reduces Physical Damage
*RESISTANCE - Reduces Magical Damage

* - Magic & Resistance can be changed to External Chi & Internal Chi/Mutation Factor & Resistance Factor/ Dust & Aura or whatever fits your verse. If your verse has no magic/special powers, just remove them.

Since the system is based on Fire Emblem, it was made with Fire Emblem numbers. This may be changed somewhere down the line. What this means, is that with the exception of HP, all stats are capped at 35.

When the RP starts, players can determine their characters' base stats through one of two methods:

Player Choice
Players start with a base 4 points in all stats. From there, they tweak the stats to their liking. Adding a point to a stat requires you to dock a point from another.

RNG-sama
Players roll 1d6 for each stat. This gives you a possibility to end up with a higher stat total than Player Choice, but removes the chance to allow players to spec their characters as they desire.

Stat growth is similarly handled through two methods

Player Choice
Players are given 4 points per levelup to freely distribute, but you may only level each stat once.

RNG-sama
When creating characters, players choose a number from 1 to 10 for each stat. This is that stat's growth rate. At levelup, for each stat, the host rolls 1d10, and if the rolled number is lower than that stat's growth rate, that stat gets a point. The growth rates should total to 5*the number of stats. e.g., in a 4 stat table(e.g. Str Int Dex Spe), if you wanted a growth rate of 9 for STR, the growth rates of int dex and spe may only have a total value of 11.

In relation to the system's nature as grid-based, there is a very vital stat we need to look at: MOV. MOV, or Movement, specifies how many squares your character is able to travel in a single turn. All characters should have a base value of 6, modified by their equipment or other factors. For instance, a character with base MOV 6. If he were to wear heavy armor, he would suffer a MOV penalty of 2, bringing his MOV to 4. If, however, he were to wear light armor, he would have a MOV penalty of 0, leaving his MOV at 6.

In summary: Heavy armor = MOV -2, Standard armor = MOV -1, Light Armor/No Armor = MOV +-0, Missing Both Arms = MOV +1.

Mounted units on horses will have base MOV 7, but should be crippled in some way. If your RP uses money, they should have to pay for the upkeep of their mounts.

Another stat will be Weapon Proficiency. This refers to how skilled characters are with their weapons, and go in ranks, E > D > C > B > A > S. Characters should start at E. Participating in battles increases proficiency.

Combat

And now the fun bit: Combat.

Each weapon has a specific range from which they can attack. If they hit, damage calculation is simply

Attacker str/int/mag/dex value + weapon damage - enemy def/res

The problem is hitting. The main things to note for combat are Hit, Crit, Multi and Counter.

Hit checks whether your attack hit your opponent or went wide into the ground.

Each Actor, Enemy and Ally, has a base hit%. By default for human characters it is 60%. This may change in different encounters depending on the GM's discretion.

Hit Chance is calculated as
(Base hit% + a)*b + c,

Where a is the value of (self Speed) - (opponent speed), b is the sum of your % based modifiers, and c is the sum of your flat modifiers.

After this is calculated, 1d100 is rolled by the host. If the rolled number is lower than the character's Hit Chance, the attack is evaluated as a hit.

Crit Chance is calculated as
(2x + Proficiency bonus)*b + c

Where x is (self speed - opp speed), b is the sum of your % based modifiers, and c is the sum of your flat modifiers.


After this is calculated, 1d100 is rolled by the host. If the rolled number is lower than the character's Crit Chance, the attack is evaluated as a crit and does triple damage. Rolling a 0 on the 1d100 is a natural crit, and the host should reward the lucky player somehow, perhaps with a rare drop or additional experience.

Each rank of weapon proficiency gives a bonus to crit, with the default being E (0), D (2), C (5), B (10), A (18), S (25)

If a character that has been attacked survives the first attack and has a weapon with adequate range, that character will automatically initiate a Counter, calculated in the same fashion as a normal attack.

After the first Counter, if the Hit Chance of the character's first attack exceeds the base hit% of the target, the character may perform an additional attack for every 20 points in excess of the target's Base Hit%, with each attack doing 50% damage. The number of additional attacks caps at 10. Calculate hit and crit for every attack. If any attacks crit (including the first attack), all subsequent attacks do 100% damage instead. If the counterattack's Hit Chance exceeds the attacker's Hit%, the counterattacker will also get the chance to perform additional attacks, under the same rules.

An Evaluation of Pros and Cons

That's all I have for mechanics. If there's interest in this system I'll develop it more, if not I'll let it die. Briefly, a quick list of pros and cons for ARTS:

Pros
-Streamlines combat, allowing more emphasis on non-combat scenes
-Allows for description and visualisation of tactical movement, i.e. "Player A caused a distraction while everyone else got to the chopper" v.s. physically playing out how Player A held enemies off while everyone else inched to the chopper.
-Allows for fair, host-enabled PvP
-Easily adaptable to really any RP setting.

Cons
-More work for hosts
-More player commitment required
-Takes time to get used to
-Breaks Immersion.
-Relies on trust between the players and host to prevent unfair host behaviour

A.L.T.S.
A Simplified version of the ARTs. Lightweight and minimalistic. For people who really hate numbers.

The Stats:

Naturally, a stat-based combat system will require stats. The stats assigned to each character are as follows:

HP - Self-explanatory
STRENGTH - used to calculate damage for physical heavy weapons, i.e. Swords/Axes/Hammers/Spears
*MAGIC/SPECIAL - used to calculate damage for magic attacks
DEXTERITY - used to calculate damage for precision weapons, e.g. Daggers/Bows/Projectiles
SPEED - used to calculate hit and crit
INTELLIGENCE - used to calculate damage for tactical weapons, usually used in conjunction with another stat. E.g., Puppets (Intelligence + Magic), Steel Threads (Intelligence + Dexterity).
CHARISMA - Used to calculate efficacy of support actions/weapons, e.g. Instruments, dances, speeches.
DEFENCE - Reduces Physical Damage
*RESISTANCE - Reduces Magical Damage

* - Magic & Resistance can be changed to External Chi & Internal Chi/Mutation Factor & Resistance Factor/ Dust & Aura or whatever fits your verse. If your verse has no magic/special powers, just remove them.

Since the system is based on Fire Emblem, it was made with Fire Emblem numbers. This may be changed somewhere down the line. What this means, is that with the exception of HP, all stats are capped at 35.

When the RP starts, players can determine their characters' base stats through RNG; Players roll 1d6 for each stat. Players are given 4 points per levelup to freely distribute, but you may only level each stat once per level.

In relation to the system's nature as grid-based, there is a very vital stat we need to look at: MOV. MOV, or Movement, specifies how many squares your character is able to travel in a single turn. All characters should have a base value of 6, modified by their equipment or other factors. For instance, a character with base MOV 6. If he were to wear heavy armor, he would suffer a MOV penalty of 2, bringing his MOV to 4. If, however, he were to wear light armor, he would have a MOV penalty of 0, leaving his MOV at 6.

In summary: Heavy armor = MOV -2, Standard armor = MOV -1, Light Armor/No Armor = MOV +-0, Missing Both Arms = MOV +1.

Mounted units on horses will have base MOV 7, but should be crippled in some way. If your RP uses money, for instance, they should have to pay for the upkeep of their mounts.

Another stat will be Weapon Proficiency. This refers to how skilled characters are with their weapons, and go in ranks, E > D > C > B > A > S. Characters should start at E. Participating in battles increases proficiency.

Combat

And now the fun bit: Combat.

Each weapon has a specific range from which they can attack. If they hit, damage calculation is simply

Attacker attack stat value + weapon damage - enemy def/res

The problem is hitting. The main things to note for combat are Hit, Crit and Counter.

Hit checks whether your attack hit your opponent or went wide into the ground.

Each Actor, Enemy and Ally, has a base hit value. By default for human characters it is 15. This may change in different encounters depending on the GM's discretion.

Hit Chance is calculated as (1d20 + Speed + mods). If the result is higher than the target's hit value, the attack evaluates to a hit.

Mods refers to your Modifiers from equipment and skills. So, if, say you, with a speed of 1, equipped a Vuvuzela of Doom with a +3 to hit, and you rolled a 6 on the 1d20, your Hit Chance would be 10, allowing you to hit anything with a Hit Value of 9 or less. In the case of a tie, the target of the attack wins. All mods in the ALTS system are flat mods.

Crit Chance is calculated as Speed + Mods

After this is calculated, 1d100 is rolled by the host. If the rolled number is lower than the character's Crit Chance, the attack is evaluated as a crit and does triple damage. Rolling a 0 on the 1d100 is a natural crit, and the host should reward the lucky player somehow, perhaps with a rare drop or additional experience.

Each rank of weapon proficiency gives a flat bonus to both hit and crit, with the default being E (0), D (1), C (2), B (3), A (4), S (5)

If a character that has been attacked survives the first attack and has a weapon with adequate range, that character will automatically initiate a Counter, calculated in the same fashion as a normal attack.

Any attacks that crit will trigger an additional attack. If the additional attack crits, another additional attack will occur. Repeat until the additional attack does not crit. Counters may only be evaluated if the countering character is still alive after all additional attacks. If a Counter evaluates to a Crit, the counter will also recieve the opportunity to perform an Additional Attack. The number of additional attacks caps at 10.

An Evaluation of Pros and Cons in Relation to ARTS

Briefly, a quick list of pros and cons for ALTS:

Pros
-Simple and easy to learn, with fast calculations
-Minimalistic, allowing for more emphasis on storyline than combat
-Less burdensome on the host than ARTS.

Cons
-Removal of certain aspects of combat makes it a little less nuanced
-Simplification of combat reduces the overall effect of RNG on the system and may encourage minmaxing
-Removal of % based modifiers restricts the overall creative space of the system.

Call and Response

So, now that I've typed all that out, I'd like to get a brief sensing: Is anyone interesting in using this system to host/play? If so, I'll expand on it (skills, magic, terrain, etc.) and start compiling resources for use (tilesets, sprites, digital art, Excel Spreadsheets, etc.). If nobody's interested in this, then I won't work on it any longer and move on to other things. Let me know ^^

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I mean... how would the rolling work and not be so easy to game that it wouldn't be funny? Like there's no function in this forum that allows a roll that one can easily say is legit that. I just have to as the host say the number and hope people trust me that I'm not fudging things on purpose or doing things to mess with them? ((I'm a DM that firmly believes in being open about rolls and rolling my dice where players see them.))

After all, people do and will recognize patterns even if they aren't really there and might think that I'm playing favorites etc... and what not ((especially if I have to roll for their characters in critical moments.)) The problem is, without a solid way to check for this or something that would exist within the the forums itself that can't ever lie putting the control of your character into the hosts hands and hoping they don't straight up cheat you is is a really tough thing. The problem is... they'll never be able to tell a host is doing it either. ((unless they are super obvious about it.)) Basically, it's just too easy exploit in the hosts favour and the players could never even know it's happening without some sort of function in the forum that Rolls.

The other issue is yea it's more for grids and tactical based RPs. Which meeeeans... maps. I personally hate maps and espically am not fond of things like 4th edition DnD becuase well... I'd rather being palying a boardgame at that point since it's what it feels like.

Now, I know I sound negative as hell... and that's cause for me it's not a system I ever see myself using. It's just too easy for players to think I'm pulling the wool over their eyes and killing of their characters or whatever cause "looool, It's fun!" without a proper system or function in the forum. It adds not only more work for me, but it adds more work for players too keep their sheets updated, which... adds more work for me yet again to badger players to keep their sheets updated. It's jsut not woth it to me as a host.

Does that mean I think this is a bad idea? No. I like it honestly since it is a nice option for something else. But it's going to neeeeed heavy work and more importantly, Playtesting. THis is a system that needs to be used and palytested with to see if it's balanced... funnily enough like a real Tabletop RPG. SO, you'll need to set that up to get it running smoothly etc... If you go forward with this, trust me, there is a lot of work You will have to do to get this up and running. I'd be happy to lend a hand on developing it etc... whatever you want if you ask me ((despite my negative nancying up above XD.))becasue I would like to see it work. However, I just don't think it can since Host Bias even if it doesn't really exist will always be a lingering thought in everyone's mind. Just that big a what if... is just baaaad to be built into a system. It ruins it's integrity even if the person who is hosting it is being honest and fair doing exactly as the dice say, that doubt is always there... lingering.

[Shadow Sketches]

I can say that right now, as a person that has never really played any Fire Emblem or D&D, this looks complicated as heck. I had a hard time keeping up with all the stuff, and even had to re-read a couple sentences when I just couldn't wrap my head around it. I get what the system is going for, but it feels overly complicated. Maybe that's just me since I don't have any experience with this kind of system, and perhaps everyone else here with experience is looking at this like it's a piece of cake.

That being said, I wouldn't mind at least trying an rp that uses this system as I can see it helping out with combat scenes. Especially since when it comes to pvp no one wants to lose so it would help to keep rp's from having twenty post long fights between two characters because neither wants to bite the bullet and lose it, but at the same time it would definitely feel odd for me and would take me out of the immersion and feel almost silly.

It would also add a ton of work for everyone involved and might even make rp's take longer. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind long rp's but as of right now the rp's I'm in are still kind of in the intro phase and have been for a while. Adding a system like this might make things take even looonger and overall slow down the fun.

Although, I do think that if there's a group of people here that are dedicated to see this work and really want to try it out, it could end up being something new and fun to try out.

P.S. I personally think if you took out the maps and instead just had the dice roll and stuff, it would be less immersion shattering and less work over all but still have the same impact and fun of most of the mechanics. I could be wrong though, it's just my two cents.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Shadow Sketches

[Commander]

I suppose this isn't to big of a deal, but yeah, I kind of have to agree combat needs some type of numbers or data to flow very well or be fair. I still remember that FE RP I tried doing away with maps, but they really are needed to make it work or at least the combat needed to use it. And Huk does have a point with the rolling, but to be honest, I'd rather have one single person do it as long as they keep their integrity vs everyone trying to keep track of what they roll. Have a host do it for them is honestly the best and easiest way to do it.

I suppose I'll share my mapless fire emblem roleplay idea since we all kind of know that me actually going through with that has little chance nowadays due to my situation. I actually was going to use a point system and RNG which is actually really easy to account for. You basically get a point/lose a point depending on the weapon triangle if you're strong or weak to the attack. Bronze/Iron/Steel/Silver also gave a point being 0/1/2/3 respectively. Interesting enough, the RNG determines whether or not you'll get hit (you get two hits before dying) or whether you hit the opponent. You start at five and you get numbers added/subtracted on based on the scenarios. I can't remember the exact numbers but it was pretty easy to keep track of hits and misses through that method instead of based on the players posts (it also would make them think a little bit). There was a lot that could be done to manipulate the RNG so that it wasn't a mindless game of hit and run, but I threw in a bloody 10 rule to keep the sessions interesting. The maps would be very detailed giving the players and idea what they're fighting on, but after that, anything was game. (If you're interested in this idea I had, I'd be more than willing to PM you all the details for it for someone to run).

I don't think anything you presented here is wrong and I feel is a bit needed. I think there's plenty of evidence that there needs to be a couple calcs to keep combat a bit smoother and more fair. I'd love to see an RP like this happen and I'd probably consider RPing it...and actually staying in it. It'd be a good test run to see how we should go about it in the future.

[Code: PIRULUK]

Funny you should mention test runs. If I get enough interest in this, I'll be doing a quick 3-4 player one map reroll campaign to test the system, both as a balance test as well as to see how long it takes for a battle.

I was thinking about the weapon triangle, but I decided not to include it in the base system, instead leaving it as a suggested modifier. By placing all these world-specific subsystems into the mods, there's a higher level of customisation available for potential hosts.

To clarify about the amount of work involved, character sheets/data would be upkept by purely the host, preferably on a google doc that everyone can see, but not edit. So the burden of additional work would fall largely on the host's shoulders.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

To clarify about the amount of work involved, character sheets/data would be upkept by purely the host, preferably on a google doc that everyone can see, but not edit. So the burden of additional work would fall largely on the host's shoulders.

Eeeeew.... more work... ((really though I'd go insane upkeeping that many sheets for people XD. Okay maybe I could live with it, but I probably wouldn't be happy about it. Cause I'm a butt, and prefer players be responsible for their sheets.))

And Huk does have a point with the rolling, but to be honest, I'd rather have one single person do it as long as they keep their integrity vs everyone trying to keep track of what they roll. Have a host do it for them is honestly the best and easiest way to do it.

I definitely get that mentality and it's kinda one I share. It's just hard to have people know you're being 100% impartial without something in place. Sadly, not much can be done with that really. It's just an inevitability of the system here. I just think we need to be clear about that fact that it's known and not hidden in there for players to suddenly realize later in a moment of fridge horror in that we could've been gaming them the whole time. Even if we weren't and it's was an unfounded revelation. If we are upfront about that, well people know how it will work and that it's a possibility. They are better informed and have that info to make the decision off of.

Like honestly... this might let me finally make Recursive Stars a reality. A.k.a an RP that was Sci-fi-esque that I never got around to. Perhaps if people like it I might even adapt it to Heartless ((that depends though. I don't want to incentivize Combat too greatly over other things within Heartless. Attaching a explicit reward to it seems like it could be bad espcially since I want to foster non-combat characters as well XD.))

Really though if you need a playtester I'll gladly volunteer because I live to debug and break things. In coding it was my greatest strength ((and my fav part.)). So, poking around at stuff is my specialty XD.

[Pyon Pyon Kyuu!~]

Note; I did not read any of this just mostly skimmed through it so take my criticism with a grain of salt.

So Battlefield of Love has a very simple stat system. It works perfectly because there is only a necessary roll, and very very simple stats.

To emulate something like combat you need a complicated yet simple system... This doesn't look simple.

I recommend you look more into DND and the stuff they do....

For example the "luck" stat is completely unnecessary. That can be emulated with dice rolls. Overall luck stats don't make sense in video games, as a character's "luckiness" is hardly ever actually taken into account. They usually represent things that don't make sense. If it was a casting stat or something it would make more sense...

Two cents \o

EDIT: Also after reading, sorry to say this but ew Acqui. I hate the "to hit" calculations... Rolling dice is a lot easier (made a lot harder by the fact Reborn doesn't have a dice roller.)

[Code: PIRULUK]

ew Acqui.

</3 :c

[Shadow Sketches]

If your doing a test run on this, I wouldn't mind trying it out just to see how it plays out. But be warned that I have no experience with this so I'll probably be very newb at it, so you'd probably want to get others that are more experienced first to test it out. I'm just saying I wouldn't mind trying it out if you need an extra member and don't mind that I would have no idea what I'm doing.

[Flux]

I've also been giving some thought to RP combat over recent months, mostly due to my toying around with the idea of tactics and/or virtual reality MMO RPs, so I'm right there with you in saying something like this is necessary. As both a host and a player, I often got the feeling that battles were ending up as an annoying side thing at times, rather than the intense, dangerous encounters they were supposed to be. As you said, ambiguity is probably the main issue there, and some sort of combat system such as the one you presented would fix the problem. I used to be against rolling systems and damage calculations in RPs, as it seemed like a lot of work and was something I was unfamiliar with, but after playing a makeshift session of DnD for the first time with some friends, my opinions quickly changed. Having a way to calculate damage and hp makes battles feel a lot more direct - It feels more like you're actually involved and have something at risk, rather than being confident that you'll all succeed in the end no matter what just so the story can continue. It also provides a real element of growing stronger through leveling and whatnot.

That being said, I do think the Fire Emblem system might be a bit too complicated for many members to want to deal with. While I personally wouldn't mind this system and think it is probably still viable for a dedicated Fire Emblem RP, something simpler such as DnD mechanics could be looked into as well. I don't think this is viable for every RP with combat (I can't imagine integrating this into "The Awakened," for example), but it definitely makes some of them more possible. If we establish a system for leveling and combat mechanics, I might finally feel confident enough to design and release a VRMMO RP.

Tl;dr I think this is very viable and necessary for many RPs, but it might need simplifying, or at least a simpler alternative option.

[Chevaleresse]

Funny you'd mention that, I'm working on a sort of MMO-esque RP right now with Lexi. I hadn't thought about using this, but now that you mention it, it could be a good plan.

[Flux]

Funny you'd mention that, I'm working on a sort of MMO-esque RP right now with Lexi. I hadn't thought about using this, but now that you mention it, it could be a good plan.

Oh, nice! But yeah, in all the time I've been thinking about it, I've basically come to the conclusion that an RP of that genre really needs some sort of definite mechanic for both combat and leveling in order to be successful and actually feel like an MMO RP, rather than any other fantasy/sci-fi/whatever setting RP. The hardest issue for me was leveling an exp distribution, simply because I always have a hard time deciding how much exp should be necessary to level up at each level to maintain a balanced state (i.e., Players aren't leveling faster or slower than the enemies they're supposed to be ready for at any given point.) Knowing what (admittedly little) I do now about systems such as DnD, I figure that the leveling system and exp distribution could be easily adapted for an RP though, so that may be workable as well. But I do think having some sort of established system like the one Acqui mentioned could go a long way for RPs like this, or more tactical RPs.

[Shamitako]

So, the only real issue I see with this is the huge time delays it would cause. And from experience, taking too long between posts absolutely kills some people's interest

[GotWala]

Well, I have a slight alternative to make alot of the upkeep, admin, rolls, etc. less of a headache and allow them to retain total integrity:

Basically, host the Interest Check and OOC here and have a link for the IC to a site like Roll20. It'd provide a grid with map tools, a place to store sheets, info, lore, bios, etc. and the built-in dice rollers show the results before everyone in the chat log. It may seem like it's "defeating the purpose" a bit to move off this site for the RP, but it'd more be like Reborn would act as the basis and discussion area for the RP while Roll20 would be the area where the RP is actually played out. Perhaps the biggest difficulty with this way would be "assembling" the participants in the action to all be around at the same time... This would also mean that no one could really just "spectate" and read through the RP as it goes, assuming that's something you think about, haha.

Overall, I like the idea of using a system to adjudicate the more abstract parts of the RP but it'd incredibly difficult to maintain on Reborn without the appropriate modifications. I'll try to think of a better "solution" than the one I've put here, in the meantime.

[Code: PIRULUK]

Okay so...

From what I can see, the biggest issues raised with the system are as follows:

1) Lack of a way to ensure the GM doesn't game the rolls

2) Calculations being too complex/the system in general being complicated

3) Lengthening the duration of RPs

4) Difficulty in upkeep

So... I'll address these in order.

1) There really isn't anything that can be done about this, given this forum's nature as a non-real-time RP medium. But, if you think about it, it's not any harder for the GMs to game the system right now; GMs have the power to arbitrarily kill characters anyway by just stating that they were hit by a fatal attack. So this issue would exist with or without the system; the only difference is that the system provides a target for resentment. GMs should include a warning that it's possible to game the system when setting up, and ask primarily for the players' trust.

2) The system is complex because in real life, combat is complex; it's a dance between two partners. Your physique, skills and a lot of luck need to come together in a harmonius murderous orchestra to land a hit. That said, I understand the concern, so this is what I can do: I can continue working on this system, but make another simplified, less complex subsystem. Things I'll keep include grid-based movement and the damaging stats(I like the idea that using a Rapier requires a different stat from using a Dagger), but I can adjust the hit and crit calculations to make stuff easier.

3) I'm not too sure about this; the system allows you to compress multiple combat encounters into one, so if anything the time taken should in theory be reduced... assuming all players are active. What drags RPs the most is slow or lacking player activity. If players and the host can all play their part, we should be able to mitigate this issue. Again, I'll need to run a trial map to see how long a combat encounter might actually take. If it takes too long, I'll revisit this issue.

4) Naturally, if I do go ahead with this system, I'll create resources for it: namely, a Google Sheets document or - if I can learn how to package it - an executable. There will be more effort needed from the host, but these should help facilitate that a little.

@GotWala I know about roll20. I would love to use it. But the problem is the same one that's plagued every individual who's tried to set one up: timezones. For instance, I live in a GMT+8 timezone. That's halfway across the world from most people on this forum. This presents a problem where the time I'm available is like 4am for everyone else. As such, this is not a practical solution :x sorry to disappoint :c

[Chevaleresse]

Couple suggestions I made to you on the server, just writing them here.

1. A split between "Body" and "Soul" attributes. This acts as a safeguard against minmaxing to an extent and also tends to prevent certain typical character archetypes (Big Dumb Fighter, Squishy Wizard) from being played if you split the pool for upgrading those stats. (e.g. you might get 30/30 instead of 60 for all stats). My suggested division would be HP/Strength/Dexterity/Speed/Defense and Special/Intelligence/Luck/Charisma/Resistance, though some stats could be swapped around (e.g. considering DEX to be one's spatial and kinesthetic senses and Special to be an innate part of your body)

2. Making it a bit less chaotic by using the Pseudo-RNG system used in Warcraft III/Dota 2. Basically, say you have a 20% chance of something happening. Instead of just rolling a d10 and checking to see if you got a 9 or 10, the chance is determined by a simple formula P=cn, where P is the -actual- chance, c is a constant, and n is the number of attempts since the last success. This page has a list of constants, in this case it's 0.05570. So, your real chance of landing that sweet critical is only about 5.5% on the first hit. Your chance of landing it after a dry spell of 10 hits, however, is 55.7%.

tl;dr a bit of simple math to make really dumb RNG things happen less.

[Pyon Pyon Kyuu!~]

2. Making it a bit less chaotic by using the Pseudo-RNG system used in Warcraft III/Dota 2. Basically, say you have a 20% chance of something happening. Instead of just rolling a d10 and checking to see if you got a 9 or 10, the chance is determined by a simple formula P=cn, where P is the -actual- chance, c is a constant, and n is the number of attempts since the last success. This page has a list of constants, in this case it's 0.05570. So, your real chance of landing that sweet critical is only about 5.5% on the first hit. Your chance of landing it after a dry spell of 10 hits, however, is 55.7%.

Do not agree with this. So PNG works really well for Dota 2, because it helps balance. In the end, Dota is a game of balance and PNG helps make crits and bashes both better and less op. They compress your chances.

RNG in RPs only exists to decide outcomes. Imagine my RP right now, where Heavensea rushed at a dude with a nagita. My thought process for him getting hit is "This dude isn't in a state where he cares to dodge" so he was obviously going to get hit. However, I as an RPer could make all my enemies the best dodge vipers in the world and they'd never get hit. With RNG, that also gives both the player and the GM some way of arbitrarily deciding what happens.

The way you actually control what hits and what doesn't is with stats.

Here I'll use DND 5e's example of controlled RNG. To hit something, you roll a 1d20 and add your proficiency (which is based on level) and a bonus based on your attacking stat. You then compare this result to the enemies AC, which is calculated by the type of armor they wear, or by 8+dex.

So let's say I am a level 6 (proficiency bonus of +3) Warlock casting Eldrich Blast. I have 20 Charisma so that means my total bonus is +8. I'm fighting a goblin that has 10 AC! Possible rolls:

1 = Miss (Even if my stats were higher, 1 is classically an automatic miss)

2 = Hit (Assuming ties go to PCs)

3 = HIt

4 = Hit

5 = Hit

6 = Hit

7 = Hit

8 = HIt

9 = Hit

10 = Hit

11 = Hit

12 = Hit

13 = Hit

14 = Hit

15 = hit

16 = HIt

17 = HIt

18 = HIt

19 = Hit

20 = Crit

This makes sense. Megumimi my cute little Warlock is a trained adventurer and should be hitting this unarmored Goblin most of the time. However there is still a chance for failure.

With PNG, it wouldn't be quite the same. The chances would actually be lower at first. But I think what makes me dislike most about PNG comes next;

Imagine Megumimi is still the same level, casting the same spell but against fucking Cthulhu. Cthulhu has 27 AC. This is supposed to be an encounter you run from, BUT FUCK THAT. MEGUMIMI IS A COURAGEOUS ADVENTURER SHE DOESN'T RUN FROM NO SQUID FUCK.

1 = Miss

2 = Miss

3 = Miss

4 = Miss

5 = Miss

6 = Miss

7 = Miss

8 = Miss

9 = Miss

10 = Miss

11 = Miss

12 = Miss

13 = Miss

14 = Miss

15 = Miss

16 = Miss

17 = Miss

18 = Miss

19 = Hit

20 = Crit

What this leaves is not only a very very very very slight chance for Megumimi to ever hit, but also an ingame way of explaining it. "Megumimi your magic managed to penetrate his tentacles... How?!" "Fufufufu.... My magic surged forward into a stronger blast! ...I don't think I'll be able to use it again, but if I concentrate my attacks are stronger..." You know, badass moments. I completely love RNG because of these moments it can create. Sure it would suck really hard if your character constantly misses... But even that creates moment in character. "I... I think my eyepatch might be affecting my aim... Yeah that's... THat's totally it..." I had a lot of fun in a particular session of DND. We went goblin hunting in a forrest, and were ambushed several times. However, every single archer that tried to attack us, rolled 1s. The DM was particularly comical about critical failures, and said that their crossbows exploded. Every time. This lead to a quest afterwards on us tracking down the crossbow manufacturers of the crossbows to try and see who else was trying to take down the goblin armies.

The RNG created a plot hook. The RNG created new fun experiences for us. I think if you think much less of RNG as a way to "balance a game" and more of a way to "create a story" it becomes much more appealing. What ever bullshit RNG creates that makes the story unfun for a player the GM can handwave. Whenever it creates a fun story, you can roll with it. PNG does not allow that. Plus, PNG would make it so if Megumimi stood there for 100 rounds she would eventually kill Cthuhlu because she would be sure to hit eventually. I'm not a fan of that!

Also at the Roll20 thing: it's still completely usable Acqui. I play in a Play by post DND campaign where we all have different timezones. It's a forum just like reborn, but it has a built in diceroller so you can roll in your post. We have a Roll20 for whenever we run combat, that has the grid with all of the monsters and tokens that represent our characters. So in my post I say "Megumimi walks 25 feet forward and then casts EXPLOSION" on everyone." I roll for it, the host resolves it in the forum, and then moves my character in Roll20. It's a way to help everyone visualize what they can and can't do as well as better understand the battlefield. It allows for organization and control that "theater of the mind" cannot allow.

[Code: PIRULUK]

Alright so I've gone back and revised this, to Version 0.8, removing LUCK as a stat, and introducing the simpler, more lightweight version: ALTS!

So, a key summary of how ALTS differs from ARTS:

-Simpler math

-No %-based modifiers

-Simpler Math

-Streamlining of character creation: Base stats now RNG-decided, but level growths are decision-based.

-Simpler Math

-Streamlined Multi Attacks

-Simpler Math

[Flux]

Alright so I've gone back and revised this, to Version 0.8, removing LUCK as a stat, and introducing the simpler, more lightweight version: ALTS!

So, a key summary of how ALTS differs from ARTS:

-Simpler math

-No %-based modifiers

-Simpler Math

-Streamlining of character creation: Base stats now RNG-decided, but level growths are decision-based.

-Simpler Math

-Streamlined Multi Attacks

-Simpler Math

But will there be simpler math?

[Code: PIRULUK]

Added a poll. please do leave an answer, it will help me decide if I want to continue developing this. also, if you answer no, I'd appreciate it if you left a reply saying why. no obligation, though!

[Flux]

I answered yes, yes, yes. For the first question, yes, of course this is good idea. I've already posted why I think it's good and necessary.

For the second option, yes, I would probably use these systems, though it depends on what type of RP it is. Under some circumstances I feel like I might want to alter them a bit for my purposes, but for the most part I think it's a very good idea to have a universal system used for RP. This makes it simpler for the hosts and especially the players, as they won't need to memorize various calculation formulas for various RPs.

For the third option, yes, I would love to play in an RP that uses them, as I think it adds an extra layer of risk, interaction, and realness to the combat, all while removing arbitrariness (not that I've seen it be an issue yet.)

[Pyon Pyon Kyuu!~]

Yes because Megumin approves,

ALTS; even if I haven't read it it's probably way less complicated as you promised.

Yes because I love DND. Making more DND into my RP just adds to the experience.

Now someone go make an RP with this system so I can literally make Megumin 2.1

[Commander]

...I totally didn't make the mistake of thinking Pyon clicked the deez nutz option.

I clicked yes to most of the options, though the second one I feel is very situational. I don't think there's a perfect system for every RP and some would probably be hurt by it. My vote would be more or less to consider using any of the systems rather than saying I'd actually use them. And you already know I'll participate in an RP like this if you make it.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Yea I not voting for reason that I hate giving a simple yes or no to an answer. Maybe I'm a butt. Ooooooooh well.

I persoanlly think it's a good idea or plan to supplement some rolling type stuff for RPs that you know garner that system or want it to do things better I suppose? I dunno. I feel like it's a good thing to have in some situations. That is really the only question I felt I coooooould answer and it would certainly be yes. However I have to answer all of them so I can't answer just that one.

Question 2. It's ENTIRELY dependent on the RP. If I felt the RP wanted one of the systems, I'd uuuuuse it. However, I wouldn't just use it for everything. I feel the systems of an RP should fit that RP and what it means to accomplish. As this is more so for a combat orientated system ((it could probably be waggled into something more fitting of course lol.)), it tends and will favor experiences that cater towards that. Obviously, that's not an issue so long as that's what the RP wishes to accomplish this etc. Anyway, in short I'd use it if it was the correct thing to sue it for, for both systems.

Question 3. Once again similar to above. I'd say yes if it was good for the RP. I'd not if it didn't seem like a natrual fit.

Baaaaaaaaaaaasically, I'm in the area where I don't feeeeeeel right clicking yes but you can probably consider each of those options as a +1 to the overall count for yes... on the conditions I've said of cooooooooourse.

I'm just an overly cautious butt who's in charge of a sub-forum so... kinda need to consider what I do and say a biiiiit more carefully. Hopefully you understand that lol.

[Code: PIRULUK]

Well, obviously it's not meant to be used for everything. Thought it was implied that the 2nd question was asking whether hosts would be willing to use the system at all, not whether they would use it for every RP. Similarly, Question 3 was asking if players would be comfortable using it in an applicable RP.