Mega Arceus...how can GameFreak make this broken?

[laggless01]

I didn't find a thread about this specifically, so here goes...

Since M-Rayquaza was made into the terror it is, that got me thinking about the pretty much inevitable day gen 4 will get a reboot (years from now, but whatever).
If Gamefreak intentionally made Ray this godlike, then how could they do such a thing with, you know, the actual Alpha?

Arceus has perfectly balanced stats (120 each), which makes it pretty good in everything, but not that great either. Adding 100 BST creates a dilemma 'cause of that versatility. Anyway you distribute it, you're cutting away options or end up creating (compared to the other Uber Mega's) a decent, but not incredible, Mega God.
(Example: pure 140 in all stats makes it really fast, but makes it lack a bit of punch compared to others.)

Tinkering with its ability is also not really a possibility, since it is Multitype. (Plates...)

Because of this, a mega should be without a stone (like Rayquaza), but that would (probably) need a link with one of its moves (which might restrict its versatility).
The obvious call for this would be Judgment, but even though it is a guaranteed STAB 100/100 move, that might be a little bit...underwhelming. Not to mention it just learns it through level-up.

In short, I wonder how this thing could make Ubers cry with these restrictions. Share your thoughts below.

[Ironbound]

I think there won't be a Mega Arceus, as I hope that the future games don't imply that Arceus needs to bond with a lowly human to achieve a higher form (even though said lowly human can catch the Almighty Llama in a ball). I hope for a Primal Arceus, but probably with a cosmetic difference or two.

Since it is Game Freak we are talking about, should they decide to give MegaRayquayquay company in AG, they may as well throw precedent to the winds and give Primal/Origin/Whatever you call it Arceus base 150 stats across the board, with a BST of 900. They could also incorporate the Red Chains into this somehow, maybe allowing it to be used as an 'assimilatory' item that can enable Arceus to Primal Revert.

As for the thing itself, based LlamaGod can easily have a new Ability called 'Omnitype' or anything you please, that allows it the combined effects of Protean and Adaptability, for instance. That leaves the question of Judgment and its type, however.

I have a theory. Maybe the Red Chains can be used to create a new item, let's call it the Red Hula Hoop for now. The Red Hula Hoop can hold four Plates, any four the player can choose to add into it. Arceus can this hold the Red Hula Hoop with upto four different types and Primal Revert. The player can then manually choose which typing Arceus turns into each turn, and Judgment and its other moves will be calculated based off it. It will initially be a Normal type on the turn it Primal Reverts and before it selects a move. Not having four plates in. The Red Hula Hoop can allow the player to select an 'empty' slot to remain/become a Normal Type.

Call it a more customizable Protean, idk. We are trying to see how broken we can make this, after all.

I suppose that's the maximum that can be done to make LlamaHod broken as hell, and yet still magically command-able by a ten year old player character. Let's assume that it is but an 'incarnation' of Arceus, which is controllable only because it forbids itself from having all the plates.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Viridescent

[SonOfRed]

over 9000 base stats

[ArmoredGuardian]

I think there won't be a Mega Arceus, as I hope that the future games don't imply that Arceus needs to bond with a lowly human to achieve a higher form (even though said lowly human can catch the Almighty Llama in a ball). I hope for a Primal Arceus, but probably with a cosmetic difference or two.

Since it is Game Freak we are talking about, should they decide to give MegaRayquayquay company in AG, they may as well throw precedent to the winds and give Primal/Origin/Whatever you call it Arceus base 150 stats across the board, with a BST of 900. They could also incorporate the Red Chains into this somehow, maybe allowing it to be used as an 'assimilatory' item that can enable Arceus to Primal Revert.

As for the thing itself, based LlamaGod can easily have a new Ability called 'Omnitype' or anything you please, that allows it the combined effects of Protean and Adaptability, for instance. That leaves the question of Judgment and its type, however.

I have a theory. Maybe the Red Chains can be used to create a new item, let's call it the Red Hula Hoop for now. The Red Hula Hoop can hold four Plates, any four the player can choose to add into it. Arceus can this hold the Red Hula Hoop with upto four different types and Primal Revert. The player can then manually choose which typing Arceus turns into each turn, and Judgment and its other moves will be calculated based off it. It will initially be a Normal type on the turn it Primal Reverts and before it selects a move. Not having four plates in. The Red Hula Hoop can allow the player to select an 'empty' slot to remain/become a Normal Type.

Call it a more customizable Protean, idk. We are trying to see how broken we can make this, after all.

I suppose that's the maximum that can be done to make LlamaHod broken as hell, and yet still magically command-able by a ten year old player character. Let's assume that it is but an 'incarnation' of Arceus, which is controllable only because it forbids itself from having all the plates.

That is so broken it might be the end for Pokemon.

[Pandalex12]

The Multitype ability would have to be upgraded to reduce the super effective damage of its type while still maintaining the ability to use the plates; sort of like Delta Stream's effect but more broken since it's just one type.

However, even with this it cannot be as broken as the ability known as Desolate Lands (kinda a cheat way to get rid of that 4x water weakness Groudon :/ ) - let's also nullify crits as well.

Since Arceus has 120 base in all stats, make it so that the Mega gives a 120 increase instead of the peasant's 100 and allow for Arceus's HP to increase proportional to its percentage health.

Now you have a nice 840 bst Arceus which defies the HP rule of Mega evolutions and virtually has no weakness - Might as well make it so that the ability cannot* be copied, nullified, or bypassed to get rid of peasant tracers and scrub Mold Breakers.

Also, ditto dies if it dares to try and transform into M-Arceus as we have no need for a false god.

Slap on a Steel Plate and enjoy the glory of so many resistances, no weaknesses, and an immunity.

Little chance of getting lucky against this God and no, you cannot try and toxic stall this.

I would try to make it broken but the plates kind of limit what I can think of.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Pandalex12

[TRHStatement]

I think there won't be a Mega Arceus, as I hope that the future games don't imply that Arceus needs to bond with a lowly human to achieve a higher form (even though said lowly human can catch the Almighty Llama in a ball). I hope for a Primal Arceus, but probably with a cosmetic difference or two.

Since it is Game Freak we are talking about, should they decide to give MegaRayquayquay company in AG, they may as well throw precedent to the winds and give Primal/Origin/Whatever you call it Arceus base 150 stats across the board, with a BST of 900. They could also incorporate the Red Chains into this somehow, maybe allowing it to be used as an 'assimilatory' item that can enable Arceus to Primal Revert.

As for the thing itself, based LlamaGod can easily have a new Ability called 'Omnitype' or anything you please, that allows it the combined effects of Protean and Adaptability, for instance. That leaves the question of Judgment and its type, however.

I have a theory. Maybe the Red Chains can be used to create a new item, let's call it the Red Hula Hoop for now. The Red Hula Hoop can hold four Plates, any four the player can choose to add into it. Arceus can this hold the Red Hula Hoop with upto four different types and Primal Revert. The player can then manually choose which typing Arceus turns into each turn, and Judgment and its other moves will be calculated based off it. It will initially be a Normal type on the turn it Primal Reverts and before it selects a move. Not having four plates in. The Red Hula Hoop can allow the player to select an 'empty' slot to remain/become a Normal Type.

Call it a more customizable Protean, idk. We are trying to see how broken we can make this, after all.

I suppose that's the maximum that can be done to make LlamaHod broken as hell, and yet still magically command-able by a ten year old player character. Let's assume that it is but an 'incarnation' of Arceus, which is controllable only because it forbids itself from having all the plates.

Call it Arceus - Transcendent Form and make the BST 1000.

Then watch as the fastest ban in meta-game history occur before your eyes.

[Ironbound]

That is so broken it might be the end for Pokemon.

That's the idea. It is the question at hand, after all, to see exactly how broken can GF possibly make this while still retaining some sort of justification or lore.

Better than the 'swallow a rock and sparkle with the trainer's fervent wish to transform into Shenron' premise, at least.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Viridescent

[BIGJRA]

Oh jeez, Red Hula Hoop would effectively give Arceus Mega/Primal seven coverage moves, four of which would be STAB. Not even taking into account defense, that's already incredibly broken, since a combination of Fire, Ground, Fighting, Steel, Dark, Grass, and Ice would super-effectively literally cover every type except Fighting (there might be a permutation which does get all 18?) Even this item alone on Normal Arceus breaks the game, let alone giving it more base stats than the fence monster already has in its arsenal.

[Kagamine]

Mega Arceus would have to get 1,000 base stats, gotta break those three digits. Every stat except HP has 176, since HP doesn't change with megas.
I agree it would have to ingest the stone or something like that, since there are 18 plates, it's not gonna eat them all. It'd be hilarious if it did though. At least a plate wouldn't power its STAB moves as much as a choice band or choice scarf would all of its moves. Maybe, a Mega Arceus would have protean as its ability? Just toss the plates all together and let it be whatever it wants to be, whenever it wants to be. Now THAT would destroy. Just but a choice item on it and it's already more overpowered than it should be. It'd go in a tier above Mega Rayquaza.

[Cepheus]

New Item - eventually created with the Red Chain AND all 17 plates (maybe 18 with another plot-item -> Origin plate or something like that) -> named the Jewel of Origin (based on the Jewel of Life from the 12th movie)

Jewel of Origin would be a Key Item, allowing Arceus to enter its "Origin-Form" in battle - no held item or special attack needed!

It's new Ability would be a combination of No Guard, Adaptability, Scrappy, Normalize, Mold Breaker and Air Lock!

now... to make it short:

Origin Arceus is always Normal Type

- all its attacks become normal type [thorugh the Normalize part]

- they ALWAYS hit [through the No Guard part]

- they get higher STAB-boost [through Adaptability]

- they ignore all Immunities [scrappy-part gets rid of Ghost Immunity]

- Opponent Abilities are practically useless [Mold Breaker part]

- Weather Conditions are negated [Air Lock part]

and to top things off:

- Normal type attacks cannot be resisted and hit always for Super Effective damage!

I call it:

Divine Being

as for Stat-boosts - it is the frickin' Pokemon GOD!

give it 250 bonus stats - 50 for each! muahahahahaha!!!

(but seriously... it wouldn't need it anyways...)

[The Swordsman]

Lets see if I were to try to make Arceus broken....

Arceus Divine Creator Form

Type: Normal/Fairy

1000 BST

Ability: Omnipotent. Arceus is Immune to all types except normal and hits all types super effectively with Judgement

Appearance: He gains a thousand arms and unknown surround him

Form is gained by making hold him hold the Azure Flute

Edited April 6, 2016 by The Swordsman

[Exalted]

ok lets try this

Arceus-Awakened form

Transformation item:Azure Flute used similarly to prison bottle and DNA slicers but unables the use of mega evolution at all from your side in game or online as long as the flute is in effect and judgement is converted into divine type with a boosted 120 base power.

Type:Divine(a new type only for arceus it is weak to Divine type attacks and offensively is Resisted by none)

Ability:Omnipotence(contains the effect of several abilities allowing it to recovers a little hp each turn makes stabX2 and turns all normal types moves used by user change in divine type but if the user drops below 20% health it will revert back to its standard form untill Azure flute is used once again gives tag team partners with normal types Divine types as long as Arceus is in battle)

stats:

HP:170

Attk:170

Def:170

Spattk:170

Spdef:170

Spd:170

Total:1020

and yes the only move ive made to be divine type is judgement under effects of azure flute and why 170 well its stats are 720 so keeping the 7 and the 20 in there

Edited April 6, 2016 by NovaKnight

[laggless01]

Well...that's not quite what I expected, but still interesting

Bonding with humans wasn't implied, but for example by bringing the Space Trio together, it could achieve Ascension-form or whatever (nicer name for a mega). The idea of the Red chain is quite interesting, since it is described that 'capturing a (legendary) mon with a pokéball limits its power'. Definitely something to keep in mind for "mega"-forms of Palkia and Dialga (Cyrus' plan...)

The idea was to not throw a dozen abilities together to make it broken, or just completely override certain aspects of mega-evolution, since you can make pretty much every mon broken with those. (Hitting 1000 BST with a mon does sound cool to me, though.)
Rather, with the constraints we have, finding a more "elegant way" to make it something to be feared, although most of the mixtures submitted were quite the charm. Basically, try to make up as little as possible to make it as strong and versatile as possible.

For example, I thought to (have a move overwrite Judgment to make it possible to "mega-evolve". Basically, a something-between-120-and-150 BP-version of the same move, or something stronger but with charge-up or recharge (raise it to 200 BP or so, V-create has 180 BP in comparison). Or*) just raise Judgment's power to BP 120-150, and make it its "Dragon Ascent". Even distribution (140 all) would still not be enough to hamper its capabilites with such a hitter, I think. (I have no calcs to back that up, though.) After all, it gets Plate- and STAB-boosts.

Anyway, keep it coming

(*too much to make up, I think)

[laggless01]

Stats

140 across the board, totaling 840 (420 x2).

Ability: 2x420 : The opposing pokemon is too relaxed to attack.

[Ironbound]

All this stuff is much more broken than my humble Red Hula Hoop. But yes, that was the guiding principle behind my theory, since I remember Cyrus's lecture about Pokeballs being a limiter to a mom's powers.

In any case, if you want to preserve the current rules of Mega evolution or Primal Reversion (which makes more sense IMO) the I think adding +30 to each offensive stat and +20 to each defensive stat is a decent spread that still retains a certain evenness:

120/150/140/150/140/120

The idea of not having a stone or Orb is still better, I think. Let us assume the Red Hula Hoop theory continues, and Arceus can be one of any four given types at any one time. Otherwise, Judgment and all other calculations remain the same, and his new Ability will just be Protean with a different name. Omnitype, for instance, or Origin Aura if you want to be fancy. It would also apply a 20% boost to any move Arceus uses that corresponds to the type he currently is, just like a Plate would (technically the Red Hula Hoop acts like four Plates and can't be Knocked Off) thereby also ensuring the Judgment remains STAB + Plate Boosted.

I don't quite agree with changing Judgment or needing to have a replacement move taught to Arceus, as that implies that he needs a higher power to awaken his potential. You can't teach God tricks.

Rather, we can justify my revised idea with lore: Arceus created the world, and created the Creation Trio and the Lake Trio to keep it in balance. (Also created Mew I guess to create all the other stuff eventually). Then he took a nap for eternity in his special golden dimension.

The Red Chains are a perverted item created from the living flesh of the Lake Trio. It has the power to throw spirit and creation out of whack. Cyrus uses it as usual to control the Creation God(s), is thwarted, yadda yadda yadda, but then combines them both with a Plate that he found and forcibly reawakens Arceus, incurring its wrath. It's upto the player to convince Arceus that all is fine, really, and that no Gods have been enslaved or anything. The player wins the battle, Arceus is convinced of your dedication and love for the world and whatnot, and decides to descend as an incarnation of his Ultimate Self and walk with you. You can capture Arceus when he sends a less-godly (aka his normal form) avatar to Earth, and because he is God he can exist as your companion and also exist as God in the Golden Dimension again.

You now have the Red Hula Hoops, Cynthia tells you some cock-and-bull lore about it and explains how to use it, and the plot ends happily.

What say?

Also this is my 420th post. Help.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Viridescent

[Guest]

Combine Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, Wonder Guard, and Mold Breaker into one.. x.x

It won't be THAT impossible to defeat, but it does have its merits, I think..

If anyone's played Pokemon Conquest, Arceus' ability there really screams "godlike", not just because of its effects..

It's literally named "Omnipotent." I forgot the effects it gave, but it should be available in the Bulbapedia.

[Ironbound]

The only way to beat that abomination reliably would be to have two layers of tspikes up and then have it badly poisoned as it switches in. You can't beat it otherwise if it is immune to any status moves and can constantly change type to be immune to any attack as well, and can also just keep recovering of anything we might try to do to it. Eventually the Toxic Poison will catch up... If we stay alive that long to stall it out.

[NickCrash]

Just give it the ability "MC HAMMER"

Now you can't touch this...

obligatory nerf:

you can't touch this ... every other turn

[doombotmecha]

you're right Viridescent, Pokeballs do limit a mom's powers kappa

I'd like to go in a different direction with this.

let's say that the Arceus that ten-year-olds are allowed to catch is all Arceus the god is willing to manifest in this world as. It's the maximum amount of raw divine power that is allowed to exist in the world.

Of course, it's not like that's stopped ambitious, morally-myopic adults before.

Enter Shadow Arceus.

No weakness, no resists, no levelling up (w/e you get it at 100 anyway) no evolution (again no biggie) no trades, no fucks given. Knows only Shadow Break, Shadow Half, Shadow Panic, and it's signature Move, Shadow Judgement, Which is basically a shadow-typed Judgement with 50 more basepower, 50 less accuracy, and that targets EVERYONE.

Ability: Gale of Darkness (geddit): primal weather-style ability that forces Shadow Sky and makes moves never miss.

Base Stats: +100, +50 speed and +50 spatk. Also it is so stable, it has a different reverse mode effect: it gets locked into Shadow Judgement for the duration, while taking chip damage every turn.

so there you go guys: the glass cannon to end all glass cannons. basically, it's a battering ram designed to annihilate everything it touches.

"I am become death, destroyer of worlds"--team cipher admin

I hope you're happy.

[Cobalt996]

Well, if you really want to make Arceus Raycraycray 9.0, but not break any rules (go off what we have, +100 ME boost, etc)

HP120

AT130/140

DF140

SA150/140

SD140

SP140

With Judgement acting in as Dragon Ascent. ME ability is a bit more fun, though, since the weather trio gets revamped versions of their old abilities. Thus:

Multiguard- This Pokemon takes reduced (25%/33% less) damage from all types not matching its held plate. (Plate does not change Arceus' type from Normal)

This shares Multitype's Plate Knock-Off and Ability Overwrite immunities.

Multiscale meets Multitype in a dually nerfed scenario that is still too strong, but also beatable. Hope you know your Arceus sprites well, because you'll only see it for a second before turning into the mega sprite, which is the same for all plates.

The only way to beat that abomination reliably would be to have two layers of tspikes up and then have it badly poisoned as it switches in. You can't beat it otherwise if it is immune to any status moves and can constantly change type to be immune to any attack as well, and can also just keep recovering of anything we might try to do to it. Eventually the Toxic Poison will catch up... If we stay alive that long to stall it out.

Toxic and Magic Guard.

Just use Scarfed Infiltrator Gastro Acid after Sticky Web on Arceus. Seviper OP, ban to AG.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Cobalt996

[Ironbound]

Oh yeah...sorry, cursory glance are horrible. Well...I have nothing to say. That is so ridiculous that there's nothing to be done.

[Rot8er_ConeX]

Well, if you really want to make Arceus Raycraycray 9.0, but not break any rules (go off what we have, +100 ME boost, etc)

HP120

AT130/140

DF140

SA150/140

SD140

SP140

With Judgement acting in as Dragon Ascent. ME ability is a bit more fun, though, since the weather trio gets revamped versions of their old abilities. Thus:

Multiguard- This Pokemon takes reduced (25%/33% less) damage from all types not matching its held plate. (Plate does not change Arceus' type from Normal)

This shares Multitype's Plate Knock-Off and Ability Overwrite immunities.

Multiscale meets Multitype in a dually nerfed scenario that is still too strong, but also beatable. Hope you know your Arceus sprites well, because you'll only see it for a second before turning into the mega sprite, which is the same for all plates.

Uhm, so essentially Spooky Plate would be useless. Since as an always-Normal, Arceus is already immune to Ghost type moves.

Fist Plate would probably be the most OP of them, because it's the only thing M-Arceus is weak to.

[RainbowHugs]

Mega god-like uber AG stats? Like QUAGSIRE!