Mega Nidoking

[Oth]

So I was working on this sprite (and technically still am):

Based on this Fonteart design. I could go with just increasing Nidoking's stats according to his most common use (while trying to stick to his original spread), leaving us with:

Poison/Ground

Ability: Sheer Force

HP: 81

Attack: 122

Defense: 87

Sp.Atk: 125

Sp.Def: 85

Speed: 95

Total: 605

There are 10pts left that could go to Attack, Sp. Attack, Speed or to further buff up his defenses.

I was actually wondering what would be the appropriate changes/stat increases for a Mega Nidoking? Since I'm not very knowledgeable on competitive battling, I'd like to see what stat spreads, typing and ideas would be actually appropriate for Pokemon in general and Reborn in particular. Or maybe just things to spice up the metagame.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Oth

[Ironbound]

The sprite looks good! Perhaps the edges and lining can be a little sharper but that's just me nitpicking.

As for the idea of a mega Nidoking, it wouldn't be bad. The SATs you detailed should be fine IMO, without making it broken. The speed boost is just right, though I expect the design to indicate heavier bulk, but maybe Mega Nidoqueen can be the fat one.

The thing is, 125 base SpAtk with Sheer Force is hella strong, basically it is like giving it a life Orb. Granted, it isn't as strong or fast as say LO Lando-I, but it is still pretty ridiculously powerful, especially considering its insane coverage. It's be hitting harder than LO Kyu-B but with a ton of moves to abuse: Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Sludge Wave, Earth Power, Focus Blast, even a mixed set with Poison Jab, Superpower and extremely useful priority in Sucker Punch.

I'd think it's kinda borked if you are aiming it to be used in OU. Maybe reduce its power a little bit in favour of more physical defense, as its stature implies.

Or maybe change its ability to something other than Sheer Force. Intimidate, Mold Breaker and Tough Claws come to mind. Tough Claws with more physical bulk would be OK, since it can't boost its speed and it has fewer moves that can be abused (mainly Poison Jab and Superpower, I think.)

Edited April 9, 2016 by Viridescent

[NickCrash]

Nidoking justifies its use with Life Orb / Choice Scarf + Sheer Force boosts to make up for its lousy SpA stat. Originally it was designed as a physical attacker and, even if it's way better on the special side, in Gen6 GF decided to give it a 10 points boost to.... Attack.

I would love to see a M-Nidoking, and your stat distribution looks good enough. However there is one problem: You cannot add HP.

So, I'd suggest you divide that extra 10 into Speed and make it a threat that goes over the 100 speed tier. It's much more threatening this way IMO

[pyrromanis]

From the awesome sprite you made I get the vibes that this Mega can have any of the abilitites Sand Rush, Sand Force or Intimidate.
And the stat spread is good, although as nick said you can't add hp. I'd say split it to the defences if you are going for the Sand Rush, or to the speed with any other ability.

[Ironbound]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot that you added HP. I thought it had a natural base 91, not base 81. Welp.

Anyways, I'd rather it either stayed Sheer Force but lesser speed and power, or more base stats but some other ability. We don't want more game breaking OP Pokémon, we want stuff that's fun to use.

Nidoking with Attack and SpAtk Boosts would be a fantastic wallbreaker as is, and the speed is fine at 95 IMO since it can abuse Sucker Punch to beat things like Lati@s and stuff. Not sure if Sand abilities are a good idea because Mega chomp took that cake already, but yeah, I can see it putting in work with Intimidate and more physical bulk, as I said :]

[Deleted User]

Nidoking justifies its use with Life Orb / Choice Scarf + Sheer Force boosts to make up for its lousy SpA stat. Originally it was designed as a physical attacker and, even if it's way better on the special side, in Gen6 GF decided to give it a 10 points boost to.... Attack.

I would love to see a M-Nidoking, and your stat distribution looks good enough. However there is one problem: You cannot add HP.

So, I'd suggest you divide that extra 10 into Speed and make it a threat that goes over the 100 speed tier. It's much more threatening this way IMO

I've used Physical Nidoking, I'd say it's certainly viable.

Poison Jab

Rock Slide

Thunder Punch

Ice Punch

Fire Punch

Iron Tail

It still gets fairly great coverage.

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Thunder Punch vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 283-335 (73.6 - 87.2%)

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Thunderbolt vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 299-354 (77.8 - 92.1%)

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 476-562 (123.9 - 146.3%)

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 452-533 (117.7 - 138.8%)

Yeah, special is a bit higher on the damage output, but Physical is certainly viable. I'd say most notable advantage is if you feel like running a rock type move, physical does get that coverage. You can also run Sucker Punch on physical Nidoking and have it be a bit more reliable than on special. I'd say it comes down to more of what you need.

252 Atk Life Orb Nidoking Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Persian: 144-170 (53.1 - 62.7%)

0 Atk Life Orb Nidoking Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Persian: 114-135 (42 - 49.8%)

[DJWongTong]

Wasn't this on the Insurgence board? Anyways since Nidoking's power relies mainly on a life orb to compliment sheer force, 100 bonus stats really would not justify a mega slot so you'll have to get a bit crazy with this one.

In terms of stats I would go 81/142/80/125/80/95. Its defenses get rounded out nicely while its speed gets boosted but only modestly to fit with its bulky appearance. It's offenses get the largest boost with about 40 in both stats keeping up to the title of the faster, harder hitting Nido.

For abilities, like I said, it needs to be something that competes with the Sheer/orb combo so we need to be just a bit crazy. Something akin to Moxie, Hustle, or even Adaptability would do very nicely, again nothing lame like Intimidate or Solid Rock, King is pure offense, nothing else.

Another idea I had was to pump up special attack while completely ignoring attack and finally giving it Huge power which would truly make it a monstrous mixed attacker if only a little on the strong side.

Edited April 9, 2016 by DJWongTong

[Oth]

The sprite looks good! Perhaps the edges and lining can be a little sharper but that's just me nitpicking.

The thing is, 125 base SpAtk with Sheer Force is hella strong, basically it is like giving it a life Orb.

I'm not satisfied with it either, which is why I mentioned its a WIP.

And actually, 125+Sheer Force does slightly less damage than the Standard Nido with a Life Orb+Sheer Force. So this Mega actually loses a slight bit of offensive when compared to his standard use/version (while gaining on speed and bulk). Tough Claws sounds interesting though.

However there is one problem: You cannot add HP.

So, I'd suggest you divide that extra 10 into Speed and make it a threat that goes over the 100 speed tier. It's much more threatening this way IMO

lol I didn't knew that.

Honestly I would mind boosting speed further, I just felt that somebody would have complained about how raising his speed that far would make him too OP.

From the awesome sprite you made I get the vibes that this Mega can have any of the abilitites Sand Rush, Sand Force or Intimidate.

And the stat spread is good, although as nick said you can't add hp. I'd say split it to the defences if you are going for the Sand Rush, or to the speed with any other ability.

My issue with Sand Rush/Sand Force is how it limits his usability/playstyle posibilities, just in the same way giving him a purely physical or purely special ability/stat spread would. I like how Nido, while certainly having a specific optimal method of use, allows you to pretty much do whatever you want good enough.

Wasn't this on the Insurgence board? Anyways since Nidoking's power relies mainly on a life orb to compliment sheer force, 100 bonus stats really would not justify a mega slot so you'll have to get a bit crazy with this one.

In terms of stats I would go 81/142/80/125/80/95. Its defenses get rounded out nicely while its speed gets boosted but only modestly to fit with its bulky appearance. It's offenses get the largest boost with about 40 in both stats keeping up to the title of the faster, harder hitting Nido.

For abilities, like I said, it needs to be something that competes with the Sheer/orb combo so we need to be just a bit crazy. Something akin to Moxie, Hustle, or even Adaptability would do very nicely, again nothing lame like Intimidate or Solid Rock, King is pure offense, nothing else.

Another idea I had was to pump up special attack while completely ignoring attack and finally giving it Huge power which would truly make it a monstrous mixed attacker if only a little on the strong side.

Yeah, I had posted it there originally, but the smaller userbase plus the forum design didn't help to get the discussion started. That Huge Power idea certainly stays with my goal of keeping him a "possible" mixed attacker while also giving him an ability tied to his threatening appearance.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Oth

[Cool Girl]

Nice work!

[Honchy]

That sprite looks nice! And the stats aren't bad, too

[TimTim]

This looks fantastic, i'd say it is even way better than some official mega evolution artworks. Curious, is it quadrupedal or bipedal, 'cause it looks like it is back on four limbs like its pre-evolved forms. Unlike mega Mawile which sits in Ubers, poison/ground is easily countered and checked, thus you don't need to worry about it being borked when given Huge Power, i certainly like DJ's idea of giving it Huge Power while investing the rest to special attack, if only GF could give us a special attack variant of Huge Power, Nidoking's special movepool seems more tempting to use.

[Ironbound]

...Huge Power? That's too broken, I'm afraid. Mega Nawile went borked because of base 105 attack and two base 80 power STAB moves and Sucker Punch. Nidoking will likely have a much higher attack stat which will be multiplied out of all proportion to end up at a jaw dropping 760+ unboosted raw attack stat. And it has STAB EQ , Pjab, A bunch of physical moves it can exploit for coverage like Rock Slide and Superpower, and Sucker Punch.

Poison/Ground is not checked by much other than a few steels and floating stuff, for which Nidoking, unlike Mawile, has a good SpAtk stat and an excellent range of coverage moves to abuse.

Nope, just nope. Even though this is just a theorymon, unless you're making it to be Mega Salamence's partner in crime, let's have more down-to-earth Megas.

[NickCrash]

Since this thread is about the concept of M-Nidoking in general, it's ok to discuss the possible Sprites/Artwork and Stat Distribution/Abilities but if you have other takes on the mon, there's this topic about "Creating your own Mega Evolution" which you can visit and make a creation of your own. Bare in mind, there are rules there too, even if not stated in the OP. Now, back to the subject.

I wish I could put the appopriate GIF image here, but Huge Power on Nidoking is a big NO from me. We were even discussing whether the 125 base Atk stat was too much given Sheer Force. M-Medicham with 100 base Atk got Huge Power and it's already a very threatening mega with priority moves. If Nido were to take it, all the 100 boost would be given to the other stats, effectively making it broken in more ways than 1. Obviously you cannot just strap Huge Power or Adaptability on anything! GF learned from its mistakes when it gave M-Lopunny Scrappy and a ton of Speed and Attack, as well as OP moves. We should follow the good examples not the bad.

Edit: Here's the rules. Just scroll down. http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13705&page=3

[Tomas Elliot]

Guys, the OP gave Mega Nidoking good SpAtk. This being the case, I see no reason for even considering giving it any ability other than Sheer Force: it's the ability that benefits its movepool the most, and now that it actually has the needed SpAtk, it can succesfully exploit it. The +40 to SpAtk should make up for the loss of LO just fine.

[Oth]

Most of the issues I see stem from a standard Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking slightly outdamaging my original stat spread.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 471-556 (155.4 - 183.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 470-554 (155.1 - 182.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Although ITT, I learned you can't add HP to Megas, so if I take the 10pts I had used originally on HP and add half to Attack and half to Special Attack, I get:

252 SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 482-570 (159 - 188.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Which shows a slight damage boost, paired with the speed+bulk increase without making the whole ordeal OP. Or I could add those 10pts to Speed, but I feel that making him faster unbalances him more than the slight offensive increase.

[Ironbound]

Well, that is always upto you. It is true indeed that Mega Pokémon with Sheer Force are comparable with a Life Orb boost, and the original spread that you gave does indeed give it a goodly amount of power. (It is actually weaker than Mega Camerupt and LO regular Nidoking by a slight margin, as you have proven and as I have tested)

I think your concept is fine there. I wouldn't improve its attack or special attack beyond base 125 though, and its speed is just fine at 95, making it comparable in power to a Kyurem-B with much greater coverage and priority at the cost of bulk, recovery and lesser physical power (which is still remedied by Sheer Force STAB Pjab and coverage moves that Kyu-B would kill to get)

If you do stick with SF instead of Tough Claws or Intimidate, I just hope that the extra 10 points do not go into offenses and instead go to physical bulk, which makes for a much more balanced and well rounded threatening wallbreaker. Just no Huge Power or Adaptability or anything borked, okay?

All the best.

[Oth]

This looks fantastic, i'd say it is even way better than some official mega evolution artworks. Curious, is it quadrupedal or bipedal, 'cause it looks like it is back on four limbs like its pre-evolved forms.

According to the design's creator, its quadrupedal due to its increased power+looking fiercer.

[Spineblade]

Can't see the sprite right now, but I remember it looking pretty good!

[Oth]

Woops, thanks for the tip. Silly attachments

[Tomas Elliot]

Although ITT, I learned you can't add HP to Megas, so if I take the 10pts I had used originally on HP and add half to Attack and half to Special Attack, I get:

252 SpA Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 482-570 (159 - 188.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Which shows a slight damage boost, paired with the speed+bulk increase without making the whole ordeal OP. Or I could add those 10pts to Speed, but I feel that making him faster unbalances him more than the slight offensive increase.

Indeed, I agree with you, the +5 Atk +5 SpAtk, resulting in the slightly increased damage output that you detailed with that calculation, is the way to go IMO. Very cool creation overall, kudos

This comes from a guy who has loved Nidoking since Gen 1, and uses it regularly in every game in witch it is legally in the regional dex, so I might be SLIGHTLY biased here lol

[Kagamine]

Nidoking justifies its use with Life Orb / Choice Scarf + Sheer Force boosts to make up for its lousy SpA stat. Originally it was designed as a physical attacker and, even if it's way better on the special side, in Gen6 GF decided to give it a 10 points boost to.... Attack.

I would love to see a M-Nidoking, and your stat distribution looks good enough. However there is one problem: You cannot add HP.

So, I'd suggest you divide that extra 10 into Speed and make it a threat that goes over the 100 speed tier. It's much more threatening this way IMO

Nidoqueen is a huge special attacker though, so I think Nidoking being a physical attacker is a nice contrast.

[Oth]

Indeed, I agree with you, the +5 Atk +5 SpAtk, resulting in the slightly increased damage output that you detailed with that calculation, is the way to go IMO. Very cool creation overall, kudos

This comes from a guy who has loved Nidoking since Gen 1, and uses it regularly in every game in witch it is legally in the regional dex, so I might be SLIGHTLY biased here lol

Yeah, I'm pretty much preferring that option atm. With Nidoking as one of my favorite mons, I've had to control my bias that asked for the most broken combination possible

[laggless01]

If going with Huge Power, I'd say lower its Attack back to 92 (to make it not too broken). Then, for example, you can put 60 in SpA, 10 in Spe, and 20 in each of its defenses, making it 81/92/97/145/95/95. That would keep it open for Physical, Special and mixed sets. Its 95 base speed and poor defensive typing would compensate for the unpredictability an immense power.

[DJWongTong]

I mean I'm not quite sure how a very small bulk and speed boost combined with a 5% damage increase would justify a mega slot but maybe that is just me. Either way, hell I'd use it just because I love Nidoking xD

[Oth]

Yeah, I understand. Seriously I only want an excuse to use him as my mega, mostly because while some of other favorite mons have them, their official design doesn't really appeal to me (power notwithstanding). Otherwise, I'd have to wait for a Lanturn/Breloom mega.