ty_taurus Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I don't watch the anime very much, but something that always irks me is how a lot of people tend to complain that the anime doesn't follow the rules of the games very much. Things like Pikachu being able to take out a Tyranitar and a Metagross, where in the games, Lightball Pikachu wouldn't have enough damage, and its defenses would be too low to let it survive the beating it receives from Metagross. I want to flashback to an old episode from Season 1 of Pokemon, The School of Hard Knocks. Basically, Ash and co. arrive at a private school for Pokemon training. The students use a simulator that looks identical to Pokemon Red and Blue to gauge what outcomes a battle will have. Ash, Misty, and Brock argue with some of the students about how it's more than just type matchups, and Misty proves that to one student by defeating his Weepinbell with her Starmie. Then the top student shows up, agreeing that it's more than types, and proceeds to defeat Starmie with a Graveler. While the top student agrees that it's more than Typing, she explains that it has to do with things like levels and stats. Ash then beats her Cubone with Pikachu, despite Pikachu being considered to be "low level" according to the top student's analysis. I think the point of this episode was to showcase that the simulations, i.e. the Pokemon Games, aren't accurate to what Pokemon would be like in real life. The anime is trying to explore the fantasy of real world Pokemon, and things like levels, stats, IVs, and EVs just aren't real numbers. They're used in the simulator to give upcoming trainers an idea of how Pokemon will perform in a battle, but the reality is that living, breathing creates are a lot more than 1s and 0s. In essence, it means that the games are inaccurate to what Pokemon would actually be like far more than the anime is, simply because games need hard rules and lines in order to function. In the games, there's a hard limit to how much damage Pikachu can withstand, but with the Anime, Pikachu is allowed to break those rules because he's a living creature, and not a robot. He doesn't have limitations in the way that in-game Pikachus do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquerain Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) On 8/13/2016 at 6:19 AM, ty_taurus said: I don't watch the anime very much, but something that always irks me is how a lot of people tend to complain that the anime doesn't follow the rules of the games very much. Things like Pikachu being able to take out a Tyranitar and a Metagross, where in the games, Lightball Pikachu wouldn't have enough damage, and its defenses would be too low to let it survive the beating it receives from Metagross. I want to flashback to an old episode from Season 1 of Pokemon, The School of Hard Knocks. Basically, Ash and co. arrive at a private school for Pokemon training. The students use a simulator that looks identical to Pokemon Red and Blue to gauge what outcomes a battle will have. Ash, Misty, and Brock argue with some of the students about how it's more than just type matchups, and Misty proves that to one student by defeating his Weepinbell with her Starmie. Then the top student shows up, agreeing that it's more than types, and proceeds to defeat Starmie with a Graveler. While the top student agrees that it's more than Typing, she explains that it has to do with things like levels and stats. Ash then beats her Cubone with Pikachu, despite Pikachu being considered to be "low level" according to the top student's analysis. I think the point of this episode was to showcase that the simulations, i.e. the Pokemon Games, aren't accurate to what Pokemon would be like in real life. The anime is trying to explore the fantasy of real world Pokemon, and things like levels, stats, IVs, and EVs just aren't real numbers. They're used in the simulator to give upcoming trainers an idea of how Pokemon will perform in a battle, but the reality is that living, breathing creates are a lot more than 1s and 0s. In essence, it means that the games are inaccurate to what Pokemon would actually be like far more than the anime is, simply because games need hard rules and lines in order to function. In the games, there's a hard limit to how much damage Pikachu can withstand, but with the Anime, Pikachu is allowed to break those rules because he's a living creature, and not a robot. He doesn't have limitations in the way that in-game Pikachus do. They are not even consistent with that much for the pikachu. Sometimes it faints to pokemon that have never battled before, when the plot demands some armor, pikachu can tank legends and KO pseudolegends. In fact, they are not even consistent with anything in the anime. Many times over, the anime makes a note on the fact that "x pokemon has a lot of defense/speed/whatever" , the same way its game counterpart does, and they adjust the battle against accordingly, to match those stats . Other times, they retcon any form of stat distribution. Many times over, they retcon the fact that pokemon have abilities or that moves have secondary effects, when it suits the plot, they bring out abilities and secondary effects. I believe people's frustration is also majorly about the inconsistency and the blatant plotconvenience writing rather than the individual cases. Also, it seems that more often than not, anime-invented stuff happens in favor of Ash, which in itself is also inconsistent, and at some point, it does start pissing people off Edited August 13, 2016 by Masquerain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoredGuardian Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 On 8/13/2016 at 6:19 AM, ty_taurus said: I don't watch the anime very much, but something that always irks me is how a lot of people tend to complain that the anime doesn't follow the rules of the games very much. Things like Pikachu being able to take out a Tyranitar and a Metagross, where in the games, Lightball Pikachu wouldn't have enough damage, and its defenses would be too low to let it survive the beating it receives from Metagross. I want to flashback to an old episode from Season 1 of Pokemon, The School of Hard Knocks. Basically, Ash and co. arrive at a private school for Pokemon training. The students use a simulator that looks identical to Pokemon Red and Blue to gauge what outcomes a battle will have. Ash, Misty, and Brock argue with some of the students about how it's more than just type matchups, and Misty proves that to one student by defeating his Weepinbell with her Starmie. Then the top student shows up, agreeing that it's more than types, and proceeds to defeat Starmie with a Graveler. While the top student agrees that it's more than Typing, she explains that it has to do with things like levels and stats. Ash then beats her Cubone with Pikachu, despite Pikachu being considered to be "low level" according to the top student's analysis. I think the point of this episode was to showcase that the simulations, i.e. the Pokemon Games, aren't accurate to what Pokemon would be like in real life. The anime is trying to explore the fantasy of real world Pokemon, and things like levels, stats, IVs, and EVs just aren't real numbers. They're used in the simulator to give upcoming trainers an idea of how Pokemon will perform in a battle, but the reality is that living, breathing creates are a lot more than 1s and 0s. In essence, it means that the games are inaccurate to what Pokemon would actually be like far more than the anime is, simply because games need hard rules and lines in order to function. In the games, there's a hard limit to how much damage Pikachu can withstand, but with the Anime, Pikachu is allowed to break those rules because he's a living creature, and not a robot. He doesn't have limitations in the way that in-game Pikachus do. I kinda agree with this. I completely forgot about that episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanultrax1 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 true, but they should follow some things to an extant and break things to an extant, not randomly change them as they please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquerain Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 On 8/15/2016 at 5:26 AM, Jmanultrax1 said: true, but they should follow some things to an extant and break things to an extant, not randomly change them as they please ^ the inconsistency is the biggest issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanultrax1 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 exactly. which needs to be made a little consistent at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoredGuardian Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFg8-u5h24M Found a different preview. What do you guys think?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tringus Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Okay, if Ash Greninja has THAT big of a giant orange shuriken? Yeah, Charizard is DEFINITELY going down, unless it can somehow avoid it, but it's very doubtful, seeing as Ash might use it when Charizard is cornered and weakened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquerain Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 What I think? I think that pikachu is even more unrealistically tanking a third powerhouse before finally fainting. Also, it looks like the frog is tanking flamethrower with its almighty cut kunai -facewall- , after that we see it get into a whirlpool and form a giant orange doughnut. It's so huge, i can't imagine it being super hard to dodge, but, make no mistake, it's probably not the finisher (note the frog isn't even bruised), but it does mean it will create more than 1 orange doughnut, the last one will prob be finisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanultrax1 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 we cant forget that ash-greninja was barely before he defeated shouta. so maybe its the same for alain(highly doubtful) But how does it go form blue to orange, like whats going on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquerain Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I can only hear that Ash is saying sumt like "100% power!" whenit happens so..I suppose his frog is going max bond or some sh*t. I'm gonna be really disappointed if they make Bisharp lose to an immobile biding goodra tho. There's no world in which a guillotine can miss an immobile giant dragon that isnt using attacks but is charging bide.. Inb4 the writers make bisharp forget it knows guillotine just like they made mega sceptile immobile or made slurpuff spam flamethrower despite having dazzling gleam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monochrome_Complex Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Reveal hidden contents Ash loses,and Alain thus cements himself as one of the most hated characters among the fanbase. Thanks for ruining something that could've been great, writers. Because it's not like losing to the guy more than once before was enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerogatoryTrainer Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Reveal hidden contents "Pokemon XY and XY&Z. Did the Pokemon Anime get better?" No. No it did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrromanis Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Haven't seen the episode yet, but according to spoilers from others: Reveal hidden contents NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! I was ready for Ash to claim a league title... NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Fuck you script writers! Fuck you Alain! Fuck everyone! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Ash deserved this, even with the bullshit evolution! They hyped Greninja so much, it came out as a the most favorite in the 2016 election and the writers decided to bring the All-time-fan-favorite-Charizard on top. Screw you!!! Screw Gen1, screw Charizard and both its Overpowered megas, screw, screw, screw!!! I'm mad, really MAD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 On 8/18/2016 at 11:28 AM, Monochrome_Complex said: Reveal hidden contents Ash loses,and Alain thus cements himself as one of the most hated characters among the fanbase. Thanks for ruining something that could've been great, writers. Because it's not like losing to the guy more than once before was enough. Reveal hidden contents "We'd rather not have Ash kick Alain's ass right here, what would be the point in that? Apart from quintessential limits that we can't lose a league, the fact that Ash kicked Alain's ass would make the Team Flare attack arc waaay more uninteresting. Let's have Ash kick his ass during these episodes so people would think Ash won the league anyway because he beat the guy who won it, just not in the league itself! Reveal hidden contents Seriously though that Mega Charizard X is bullshit, after tanking hits from Pika he beats Ash-Greninja in rain? My god Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojama Yellow Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Reveal hidden contents fucking I swear to everything that is holy you had the PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO END ASHS STORY HERE AND YOU MISSED IT. YOURE LITERALLY NEVER GOING TO GET A CHANCE AS GREAT AS THIS AGAIN BECAUSE ASH WILL NEVER GET ANYTHING AS BROKEN AS ASH-GRENINJA AGAIN. ASH FINALLY WINNING A LEAGUE AND THEN SETTLING DOWN WITH SERENA OR SMTH BC CONFIRMED CRUSH BUT NOOOOO GOD IM SO ANGRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquerain Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Reveal hidden contents I'll just sit here in my lonesome corner saved for people who aren't salty that Ash lost and don't hate Alain for winning. As I've said numerous times before, I wanted Ash to win a league he deserves to win, in a way that isn't completely invented bs (like this frog). The first part of the final battle was complete and utter bs with the whole pikachu stuff, but the second half redeemed itself in my eyes. It was logical that Goodra lost to Bisharp since it has a shitty setup against steel types (neither bide nor d-pulse nor ice beam do much). Also, Goodra is big and slow, so it made sense that guillotine landed a hit and rekt it. The entire bs frog vs mega zard x fight was ridden with anticlimactic vibes though. Many people forget that the frog has no SE-dmg moves to land on mega zard x due to firedragon typing, but the writers thought it was a gud idea to almost forget megazard x has thunder punch. The one time it used t-punch, it got blocked by water. That's as logical as fire attacks dealing that much damage to a water type. The giant orange donut? They provided 0 explanation for it, nobody even commented on it or how it came to be, why etc? There was no real vibe that helped set up for it appearing, not even a special bgm playing.. the frog just..randomly pulled it out after Ash called MIZU SHURIKEN ?_? Even that thing didn't live up to its hype cause it was presented like it was nothing. Both pokemon didn't even have bruises on them, which was kinda bad, but oh well. At least mega zard x made better use of its own ability tough claws by using more contact moves than flamethrowers or blast burns. After being shown to have won 10 battles vs megas in a row with little time to heal between them, I don't find it so weird that mega zard x was standing after the orange donut, but the frog was always more fragile. Granted, both pokemon are bullshit-lvl overpowered since it's not really logical for a megazard x to be able to win 10 mega fights in a row either. Anyway, this league was shit to me from the start because it was rushed and full of bs. The battles only had better animation going for them, the rest was a bunch of plotarmor and retconned things, no switching, no super elaborate strategies or anything. I don't care that Ash lost, I wouldn't want him to win with that frog anyway, but it was quite bad that after he lost, he pretty much treated that loss as just losing a normal battle, not the league finals. He merely said "hahaha well I lost, oh well, np i get stronker". He wasn't even upset. All in all, I'd say that this anime just really wanted to get this league out of the way in order to give the spotlight to the Flehhhhhhhhhhhd arc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrromanis Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 On 8/18/2016 at 11:49 AM, Morshu said: Reveal hidden contents fucking I swear to everything that is holy you had the PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO END ASHS STORY HERE AND YOU MISSED IT. YOURE LITERALLY NEVER GOING TO GET A CHANCE AS GREAT AS THIS AGAIN BECAUSE ASH WILL NEVER GET ANYTHING AS BROKEN AS ASH-GRENINJA AGAIN. ASH FINALLY WINNING A LEAGUE AND THEN SETTLING DOWN WITH SERENA OR SMTH BC CONFIRMED CRUSH BUT NOOOOO GOD IM SO ANGRY You feel my pain, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masquerain Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Reveal hidden contents You people do realize that they weren't going to get rid of Ash right? Winning league = right to fight the E4 and champion. To win the Kalos tourney doesn't mean to achieve his lifelong dream of becoming a pokemon master. His goal is intentionally vague enough for him to never really achieve it because becoming champ of a single region doesn't make you a master. He'd have to become some god-level trainer capable of winning even against stuff like primal legends , capable of turning the tables in every situation and whatnot. He's nowhere near any of it, so really, regardless of this outcome, they would not get rid of Ash. There's hope that Serena stays with Ash in the next season but there was hardly ever any hope for them to end Ash's story, as much as I'd have wanted them to actually get rid of him. Also, some people are suggesting that Alain may get disqualified for being an accomplice to team Flehhhhhhd and then they'd give the trophy to Ash or something. 'Tis a possibility but then, it's Pokemon. Everyone ever gets forgiven for anything so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKR Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Reveal hidden contents It wasn't Ash losing that got me. It was the way that he lost. Charizard took a lot more free hits and yet it never even limped, even if it is understandably more resistant than Greninja. Also, what does the Anistar City prophecy refer to now, Ash and Greninja reaching new heights of greatness? Also RIP rematch vs champion diantha which I really wanted to see later too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky98 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) Reveal hidden contents So many people seem to be discrediting the anime after today's episode. I wanted Ash to win and thought he would too, but honestly, his loss was to be expected. I still think this was one of the better leagues in the anime's history, especially animation wise. I would probably rank it second after the sinnoh league. This episode itself, despite its outcome, was actually really good. It had my heart pounding, especially since I was watching it live. I am expecting Ash and Alain to have a rematch either during or after the team flare arc, where ash will actually win, though. Here's the new trailer for the Team Flare Arc: I for one am actually excited about the arc, but that may just be because I'm interested in the lore behind Zygarde. Also, it looks like Lysandre has a shiny mega gyarados Edited August 18, 2016 by Lucky1998 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tringus Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Reveal hidden contents I was really hoping Ash would FINALLY win after 20 years of losing, but I guess the writers really hate their fans. Winning against Alain in the Team Flare arc isn't really going to cut it either because he JUST battled Alain with his full team, and STILL lost. As much as I don't want to be salty about this, I've lost all hope for Ash, the writers, etc. Against Alain? He should have had his OWN Charizard and Sceptile with him too since are powerful too. But for Ash to say that Talonflame and NOIVERN are more powerful than his entire team back in Oak's Lab? Pretty pathetic if you ask me. If anything, the battle was anticlimactic as Ash once again loses to Alain. Seriously. What the fuck, Pokemon Company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted August 18, 2016 Veterans Share Posted August 18, 2016 Reveal hidden contents To be honest, I saw this coming for quite a while now. I mean. This is the same Charizard that beat 10 mega evolved Pokemon in a row, fought with Steven Stone's Mega Metagross, AND Fought with Mega Rayquaza and the Primal Legendaries. Compared to that....I honestly don't see how Greninja had a chance of winning. Though Bisharp winning was BS. Should've just been a tie again.... Like, suddenly they made the Bisharp take out Goodra, who literally would've secured victory by landing a Dragon Pulse or Leeto Beeemmuuu(Sorry I love the japanese name for Ice Beam)but nope, Bisharp shows it's inner Paul's Drapion and takes out Ash's Goodra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanultrax1 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Reveal hidden contents wow, just wow. all this hype just to crush peoples dreams of him winning a league for one. It honestly wouldn't hurt for him to win one, and then lose when he faces the E4, because you know, when you beat all the E4 you then fight the champion. But my personal feelings aside, I didn't really think they would make him win because ash still needs to fight alain one more time. When ash finds out that alain was part of team flare and that they attacked the city/ plan to destroy it, he will fight him again then. (plus rumour that he might beat him on that fight and alain might be disqualified for his participation in the attack) so im looking forward to next weeks episode where it looks to be pretty amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yooorick Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 On 8/18/2016 at 1:27 PM, Lucky1998 said: Reveal hidden contents So many people seem to be discrediting the anime after today's episode. I wanted Ash to win and thought he would too, but honestly, his loss was to be expected. I still think this was one of the better leagues in the anime's history, especially animation wise. I would probably rank it second after the sinnoh league. This episode itself, despite its outcome, was actually really good. It had my heart pounding, especially since I was watching it live. I am expecting Ash and Alain to have a rematch either during or after the team flare arc, where ash will actually win, though. Here's the new trailer for the Team Flare Arc: I for one am actually excited about the arc, but that may just be because I'm interested in the lore behind Zygarde. Also, it looks like Lysandre has a shiny mega gyarados Reveal hidden contents Apparently Zygarde is PULSE Tangrowth. Who knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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